Official Graham Spanier trial thread.

[WeR0206]

Well, their testimony that they thought it was reported is "not enough" for me because there's a pretty big difference between testifying that you thought something was done and testifying that you did something. Testifying that you thought someone called CYS or DPW certainly ain't the same thing as testifying that you called CYS or DPW. And so far, a whole lot of people have testified and nobody's testified that they were the person who actually called. Harmon has already testified and been cross-examined once, and somehow the one piece of exonerating evidence that you're arguing might exist didn't manage to come up.

And even further, I'm not sure why there needed to have been some sort of extensive search for a CYS report that nobody (outside of Ray Blehar) has ever testified under oath to have ever made. It's not as though one of the defendants has been shouting from the rooftops, "No! You have it all wrong! I reported the allegation that Jerry Sandusky was potentially abusing children to CYS in 2001, I remember doing it! There must have been some report on file somewhere that documents what I remember doing!" as you would expect someone who has been awaiting trial for five years for not doing that one specific thing to do.

And if you're going to try and tell me that all of these men have somehow managed to forget filing a formal report of potential child abuse to a state agency about their very well-known, very important former defensive coordinator - which would probably the only time any one of them have ever done something like that in their lives - you're probably not going to come up with a very convincing argument, as that would defy all measures of logic and common sense.

Their testimony that they thought it was reported is about as good as you're going to get when it's something 10 FREAKING YEARS in the past. Would you rather they lie and say "Yes someone definitely reported it to CC CYS in 2001" when they weren't sure that was the case? It would have been in their best interest to say so, since the state could never prove it wasn't if it was unfounded, yet they didn't...hmm...

Harmon's testimony was a complete joke. I suggest you brush up on it. The guy claimed to have no memory of anything in 2001, not even Schultz asking him for the 98 report. If you thought Schultz's memory was bad Harmon's was even worse IMO. The state was like, ok thanks, next witness. His complete lack of memory didn't trouble fina one bit but he dug into Schutlz. SMH.

If a report was made to CC CYS in 2001 I highly, highly doubt C/S did it directly. They would have had someone else do it for them. Schultz said he couldn't remember exactly who did it but that he thought a report was made to the same agency as '98.

This round and round discussion is pointless. As soon as TSM was notified it was out of the untrained college admins' hands and into the hands of folks who were 10000X more qualified to look into MM's vague report. The admins report to TSM SHOULD HAVE triggered TSM to make a report to CC CYS as they were REQUIRED to by law.

 

[LundyPSU]

Maybe we will find out why there was a delay in speaking with Mike. And possibly Tim's actions after JS initially denied being in Lasch that night.

 

[bjf1991]

Well, their testimony that they thought it was reported is "not enough" for me because there's a pretty big difference between testifying that you thought something was done and testifying that you did something. Testifying that you thought someone called CYS or DPW certainly ain't the same thing as testifying that you called CYS or DPW. And so far, a whole lot of people have testified and nobody's testified that they were the person who actually called. Harmon has already testified and been cross-examined once, and somehow the one piece of exonerating evidence that you're arguing might exist didn't manage to come up.

And even further, I'm not sure why there needed to have been some sort of extensive search for a CYS report that nobody (outside of Ray Blehar) has ever testified under oath to have ever made. It's not as though one of the defendants has been shouting from the rooftops, "No! You have it all wrong! I reported the allegation that Jerry Sandusky was potentially abusing children to CYS in 2001, I remember doing it! There must have been some report on file somewhere that documents what I remember doing!" as you would expect someone who has been awaiting trial for five years for not doing that one specific thing to do.

And if you're going to try and tell me that all of these men have somehow managed to forget filing a formal report of potential child abuse to a state agency about their very well-known, very important former defensive coordinator - which would probably the only time any one of them have ever done something like that in their lives - you're probably not going to come up with a very convincing argument, as that would defy all measures of logic and common sense.

This "report to DPW" is a gigantic pile of non-sequtur bullshit.

Who cares?

It is irrelevant at this trial.

The trial comes down to one thing:

Can/will GS get (allow?) the jury - and juries, as entities, are dumber than a bag of hair - to look at the 2nd Mile and say "There is the bad guy"

The jury is going to demand a bad guy.
Any arguments focused on trying to convince a "bag of hair" that GS is not a bad guy is a non-starter as a defense strategy.
Appeals to logic? Common sense? Forgettaboutit.

I don't know what GS's team will do - - but their ONLY reasonable hope is to give the jury an alternate target for their need to point a finger at a "bad guy".
And the only alternate target available - that has a chance to appeal to a "bag of hair" - is 2nd Mile/Raykovitz/etc.

 

[MtNittany]

Raffy is apparently prepared to prove that C/S/S + Courtney DIDN'T report to CYS. If he isn't, he should shut it.

 

[Zenophile]

This "report to DPW" is a gigantic pile of non-sequtur bullshit.

Who cares?

It is irrelevant at this trial.

The trial comes down to one thing:

Can/will GS get (allow?) the jury - and juries, as entities, are dumber than a bag of hair - to look at the 2nd Mile and say "There is the bad guy"

The jury is going to demand a bad guy.
Any arguments focused on trying to convince a "bag of hair" that GS is not a bad guy is a non-starter as a defense strategy.
Appeals to logic? Common sense? Forgettaboutit.

I don't know what GS's team will do - - but their ONLY reasonable hope is to give the jury an alternate target for their need to point a finger at a "bad guy".
And the only alternate target available - that has a chance to appeal to a "bag of hair" - is 2nd Mile/Raykovitz/etc.

We now know that Curley won't be taking the fifth. If the commonwealth does put Raykovtiz on the stand, then we may actually get somewhere on this issue.

 

[Raffycorn]

Their testimony that they thought it was reported is about as good as you're going to get when it's something 10 FREAKING YEARS in the past. Would you rather they lie and say "Yes someone definitely reported it to CC CYS in 2001" when they weren't sure that was the case? It would have been in their best interest to say so, since the state could never prove it wasn't if it was unfounded, yet they didn't...hmm...

Harmon's testimony was a complete joke. I suggest you brush up on it. The guy claimed to have no memory of anything in 2001, not even Schultz asking him for the 98 report. If you thought Schultz's memory was bad Harmon's was even worse IMO. The state was like, ok thanks, next witness. His complete lack of memory didn't trouble fina one bit but he dug into Schutlz. SMH.

If a report was made to CC CYS in 2001 I highly, highly doubt C/S did it directly. They would have had someone else do it for them. Schultz said he couldn't remember exactly who did it but that he thought a report was made to the same agency as '98.

This round and round discussion is pointless. As soon as TSM was notified it was out of the untrained college admins' hands and into the hands of folks who were 10000X more qualified to look into MM's vague report. The admins report to TSM SHOULD HAVE triggered TSM to make a report to CC CYS as they were REQUIRED to by law.

I would suggest that you read up on Harmon's testimony, because what you said is inaccurate. He remembered quite a bit more than you're suggesting when he testified at the 7/29/2013 preliminary hearing. He testifed that in 2001, Schultz sent him an email asking about the 1998 file, and he responded that it was archived. He testified very clearly that he didn't ask why Schultz was asking, that he didn't recall Schultz asking for the file or giving it to him, and testified that if Schultz had asked for it, he certainly would have remembered it. He testified that had Schultz told him that there was another incident, he would have opened an investigation.

 

[pandaczar12]

Sorry but that is not good enough because if they immediately thought of the 1998 incident, the red flag should have been on fire, despite what McQ told them. He was disturbed enough to have multiple conversations no matter how wish-washy the details were, and that should have propelled C/S/S into CYA mode.

The "he did no wrong and was cleared in 1998" red flag? Try again.

 

[Raffycorn]

Raffy is apparently prepared to prove that C/S/S + Courtney DIDN'T report to CYS. If he isn't, he should shut it.

Find me someone - anyone! - who can testify that they personally were the party who filed a report with CYS. Even broader, find me someone who can say that they were told to make a report to CYS and failed to do so. If you can do either of these things, I'd gladly shut it because if someone could do that, we wouldn't be here right now because this whole prosecution would have been dead years ago and all three of them would have been exonerated.

Spanier's attorneys haven't been able to do it, Curley's attorneys haven't been able to do it, and Schultz' attorneys haven't been able to do it. The only logical, sane conclusion as to why is because it didn't occur.

 

[MtNittany]

Find me someone - anyone! - who can testify that they personally were the party who filed a report with CYS. Even broader, find me someone who can say that they were told to make a report to CYS and failed to do so. If you can do either of these things, I'd gladly shut it because if someone could do that, we wouldn't be here right now because this whole prosecution would have been dead years ago and all three of them would have been exonerated.

Spanier's attorneys haven't been able to do it, Curley's attorneys haven't been able to do it, and Schultz' attorneys haven't been able to do it. The only logical, sane conclusion as to why is because it didn't occur.

CYS should keep better records. They're a mis-managed, incompetent, corrupt state gubbmint agency like the rest of them though, so what are you going to do?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

CYS should keep better records. They're a mis-managed, incompetent, corrupt state gubbmint agency like the rest of them though, so what are you going to do?

So should senior administrators. In fact when they talk about not doing it, it kind of leads you to believe it never happened.

 

[bjf1991]

Find me someone - anyone! - who can testify that they personally were the party who filed a report with CYS. Even broader, find me someone who can say that they were told to make a report to CYS and failed to do so. If you can do either of these things, I'd gladly shut it because if someone could do that, we wouldn't be here right now because this whole prosecution would have been dead years ago and all three of them would have been exonerated.

Spanier's attorneys haven't been able to do it, Curley's attorneys haven't been able to do it, and Schultz' attorneys haven't been able to do it. The only logical, sane conclusion as to why is because it didn't occur.

Who cares?

 

[Obliviax]

I would suggest that you read up on Harmon's testimony, because what you said is inaccurate. He remembered quite a bit more than you're suggesting when he testified at the 7/29/2013 preliminary hearing. He testifed that in 2001, Schultz sent him an email asking about the 1998 file, and he responded that it was archived. He testified very clearly that he didn't ask why Schultz was asking, that he didn't recall Schultz asking for the file or giving it to him, and testified that if Schultz had asked for it, he certainly would have remembered it. He testified that had Schultz told him that there was another incident, he would have opened an investigation.

wouldn't you assume there was another incident if he was asked about the 1998 file? Would you ask why he's asking? Wouldn't "not asking" qualify for malpractice?

 

[DandyDonII]

don't believe Harmon for a second that he never asked why he was asked about the report....

 

[ChiTownLion]

No, root causes are the problem and what created this whole damn disaster. If Gricar and others do their damn job, we are not here.

 

[MtNittany]

Andrew Shubin's words mean almost as much as Zoltar's to me.

 

[roswelllion]

Sorry but that is not good enough because if they immediately thought of the 1998 incident, the red flag should have been on fire, despite what McQ told them. He was disturbed enough to have multiple conversations no matter how wish-washy the details were, and that should have propelled C/S/S into CYA mode.

I really don't get that thought. If we are to presume MM's report was "something inappropriate" along the same line of thought from Dranov. [nothing warranting police report] and you knew about 98 and you knew how the professionals treated the incident.[and in 98 they had a vic, a distressed parent, and some sort of "I hate myself" quote from JS and yet did nothing, my immediate thought would be here we go again NOT we better call the police. I think immediately thinking we should call the agencies or police is hindsight. These guys were administrators not childcare experts.

 

[interrobang]

CYS should keep better records. They're a mis-managed, incompetent, corrupt state gubbmint agency like the rest of them though, so what are you going to do?

If it was reported and then deem unfounded, there would be no record to keep.

 

[AvgUser]

I would suggest that you read up on Harmon's testimony, because what you said is inaccurate. He remembered quite a bit more than you're suggesting when he testified at the 7/29/2013 preliminary hearing. He testifed that in 2001, Schultz sent him an email asking about the 1998 file, and he responded that it was archived. He testified very clearly that he didn't ask why Schultz was asking, that he didn't recall Schultz asking for the file or giving it to him, and testified that if Schultz had asked for it, he certainly would have remembered it. He testified that had Schultz told him that there was another incident, he would have opened an investigation.

Wait a minute. Please re-read what you wrote.
In one sentence you say Harmon told Schultz that the report was archived.
In the next sentence you say that he [Harmon] didn't remember any of it.
Both those statements cannot be true.

Now, it is really believable that the Chief of Police was asked about a prior (higher profile) investigation of Sandusky and he simply let that question slide off the plate without asking any follow-ups such as 'Sure Gar, why do you ask?" It seems that Mr Harmon's memory is surely selective and there's more to this than he is telling us. Or, Harmon is dumber than Barney Fife. neither conclusion is admirable and desirable.

 

[WeR0206]

CC CYS was literally funneling troubled youth into TSM/JS foster home for DECADES (since early 80's).

They and the state have a gigantic conflict of interest in this case and a huge motive to paint someone else as the bad guy. But the media can't be bothered by these little details.

 

[roswelllion]

This trial is not about GS. It's about exacting a pound of flesh from anyone other than the state employees responsible for the protection of children.

Maybe not even exacting a pound of flesh but deflecting from those truly responsible.

 

[marshall23]

wouldn't you assume there was another incident if he was asked about the 1998 file? Would you ask why he's asking? Wouldn't "not asking" qualify for malpractice?

Harmon has been a protected species of The Commonwealth for some time. There is no way a career cop would not have been curious about Schultz questioning the existence of the 98 file. Either he has dementia or a case of Commonwealth Dementia. I still have a hunch he was the one expected to contact "the same agency" that was involved in '98.

 

[WeR0206]

Afternoon testimony ongoing in #Spanier trial. Witnesses today include Mike McQueary, his dad, John Dranov, Wendell Courtney @fox43 /1

No earth shattering news. All testimony laying ground work for jury leading up to Curley/Schultz testimony @fox43 /2

 

[sluggo72]

Harmon has been a protected species of The Commonwealth for some time. There is no way a career cop would not have been curious about Schultz questioning the existence of the 98 file. Either he has dementia or a case of Commonwealth Dementia. I still have a hunch he was the one expected to contact "the same agency" that was involved in '98.

I agree.

 

[nittanydave1]

So should senior administrators. In fact when they talk about not doing it, it kind of leads you to believe it never happened.

Where exactly do they talk about not calling CYS? I must have missed this.

 

[WeR0206]

Harmon has been a protected species of The Commonwealth for some time. There is no way a career cop would not have been curious about Schultz questioning the existence of the 98 file. Either he has dementia or a case of Commonwealth Dementia. I still have a hunch he was the one expected to contact "the same agency" that was involved in '98.

+1.

The state seemed quite upset that the 98 file was labeled 'admin' and yet they treated the guy that did it with kid gloves. Never made sense to me. When he had no useful recollection re: 2001 they didn't charge him with perjury, fancy that!

 

[roswelllion]

Harmon has been a protected species of The Commonwealth for some time. There is no way a career cop would not have been curious about Schultz questioning the existence of the 98 file. Either he has dementia or a case of Commonwealth Dementia. I still have a hunch he was the one expected to contact "the same agency" that was involved in '98.

so why can't they get him on the stand and try to nail this down [or create doubt] there seems like a lot of folks sort of in the know [Ray, Towny etc. all seem quite certain Harmon knew]

 

[psu7113]

Those are two separate issues , however you cannot stop child abuse if people don't act on reports. Getting to the root causes should involve investigating complaints . Until there are complaints charities and adoption agencies will not have any reason to deny access to kids.
When you buy a gun you fill out a form and get a background check. You can have ten bodies buried in your cellar ( your murder victims ) but so far you haven't been caught,
And you won't get caught when witnesses are ignored. Reports are part of fixing this system .[/QUOTp
Well Tim Curley did "report" the matter, face- to-face, to the head of the Second Mile, you know that well-respected charity responsible for the child in question. The head of the Second Mile, who was a licensed child psychologist and mandatory reporter, apparently laughed at Curley.

 

[21Guns]

So, how did the McQueary testimony go?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Where exactly do they talk about not calling CYS? I must have missed this.

We'll see what they say soon enough. We know they only called TSM and took the "humane" approach.

 

[bjf1991]

so why can't they get him on the stand and try to nail this down [or create doubt] there seems like a lot of folks sort of in the know [Ray, Towny etc. all seem quite certain Harmon knew]

Wouldn't do Spanier any good - - - in fact, it would likely hurt him, a lot

A jury would simply be given the impression of "PSU = Bad" (juries are dumb), and since GS is the only available personification of "PSU"....... it would be a blow to his defense

 

[marshall23]

so why can't they get him on the stand and try to nail this down [or create doubt] there seems like a lot of folks sort of in the know [Ray, Towny etc. all seem quite certain Harmon knew]

I don't know why he has enjoyed a "guard all shield"....but it is pretty obvious. In addition, he has done a pretty good job of appearing to be confused. I can't speculate if that is genuine or Commonwealth Dementia. Clearly, the PSU hook in this case has from the beginning been intended to shield the dismal failures of state agencies etc. and perhaps even something more sinister. It is hard to speculate if Harmon earned his spurs in all of that.

 

[MtNittany]

all seem quite certain Harmon knew

Knew what? That Jerry was a creepy guy? What's the jail sentence for that these days? Life?

You guys ALL (on BOTH sides) act like there was actual evidence in this case. There was none (other than badly rehearsed/scripted testimony originating from the Zoltar memory repression machine).

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Knew what? That Jerry was a creepy guy? What's the jail sentence for that these days? Life?

You guys ALL (on BOTH sides) act like there was actual evidence in this case. There was none (other than badly rehearsed/scripted testimony originating from the Zoltar memory repression machine).

Except he loved little boys junk and the people he molested stated this. He wasn't acting creepy, he was grooming and conditioning his hand picked victims. The cult is strong with you!

 

[AvgUser]

You guys ALL (on BOTH sides) act like there was actual evidence in this case.

Better yet, for some of the convictions, there wasn't even an actual victim!

 

[MtNittany]

Better yet, for some of the convictions, there wasn't even an actual victim!

Pffffft! This is PA we're talking about. Victim, Schmictim.

 

[DandyDonII]

I don't think Harmon was designated at the report guy, otherwise, all three of the admin would have said so from the get go.....

How is the state planning on getting through all of these witnesses today?

 

[marshall23]

The Commonwealth Crime Syndicate is in control. They know that the well was poisoned liberally 5 years ago. The compliant media (Pennlive) has never challenged the narrative. The OAG will play a conservative game, running out the clock to the predetermined conviction. No one will ever lay a glove on Raykovitz or ask an intelligent question about who did what for Jerry over the years. The PSU OGBOT played their part of the script and it will all be over in about 10days. When the findings are revealed that the The Freeh Report was a total hoax......no one will be listening anymore. Game, set, match.

 

[roswelllion]

Wouldn't do Spanier any good - - - in fact, it would likely hurt him, a lot

A jury would simply be given the impression of "PSU = Bad" (juries are dumb), and since GS is the only available personification of "PSU"....... it would be a blow to his defense

But if Harmon knew and he equals authorities, and he said if he knew he would investigate why is PSU still "on the hook"

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Seems the prosecuting attorney's sister is a #GOIRISH fan. Very proud of her brother.

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Someone who tweets needs to ask this rape victim advocate where she stands on the Prince Shembo rape of Lizzy Seeberg. Then follow up with the preventable death of the student videographer caused by Brian Kelly.

 

[roswelllion]

Knew what? That Jerry was a creepy guy? What's the jail sentence for that these days? Life?

You guys ALL (on BOTH sides) act like there was actual evidence in this case. There was none (other than badly rehearsed/scripted testimony originating from the Zoltar memory repression machine).

knew of an incident in 2001., which he has testified "had he knew he would have investigated" he clearly didn't investigate so if he knew he dropped the ball.