Hey Pennoyer
What did you mean a couple weeks ago when. You wrote "today is a beautiful day"
Just enjoying the weather or something more
Official Graham Spanier trial thread.
- Thread starter BobPSU92
- Start date
What did you mean a couple weeks ago when. You wrote "today is a beautiful day"
Just enjoying the weather or something more
Update from facebook (Maribeth Schmidt):
"On a lunch break until 1:30. Both sides presented opening statements. Prosecution focused on "men doing nothing allows evil to flourish." Talked about not calling DPW, consequences of actions led to more victims. Referred to upcoming testimony by Schultz and Curley. Defense focused on the fact that the men absolutely didn't "do nothing," but made the best decisions they could with info they were given. Very compelling. Named all individuals who were told of McQ's "report" to refute conspiracy. Mike McQ, Raykovitz, Schreffler are likely expected to testify this afternoon."
According to PL recap, OAG still trying to argue that JS used PSU football to lure his victims and PSU showers continued to be crime scenes.
What a crock of BS!!
Apparently they haven't figured out yet the root cause of abuse was his access to kids, which was provided by TSM and state of PA. I hope Spaniers lawyers shred them over this.
"On a lunch break until 1:30. Both sides presented opening statements. Prosecution focused on "men doing nothing allows evil to flourish." Talked about not calling DPW, consequences of actions led to more victims. Referred to upcoming testimony by Schultz and Curley. Defense focused on the fact that the men absolutely didn't "do nothing," but made the best decisions they could with info they were given. Very compelling. Named all individuals who were told of McQ's "report" to refute conspiracy. Mike McQ, Raykovitz, Schreffler are likely expected to testify this afternoon."
According to PL recap, OAG still trying to argue that JS used PSU football to lure his victims and PSU showers continued to be crime scenes.
What a crock of BS!!
Apparently they haven't figured out yet the root cause of abuse was his access to kids, which was provided by TSM and state of PA. I hope Spaniers lawyers shred them over this.
INMO he did. But then that would be like suing the candy bar company for luring little kids into a van, car or alley. Its not PSU Football's problem that they are popular.
Seems like their actions actually started to curtail evil, since the victims started tailing off.
Agreed. I should have said that he used his association with psu football but if he didnt have that he still could access kids via TSM and he had his buddy heim give him access to a hotel gym/showers where JS continued his grooming process once PSU revoked his guest privileges in 2001.
Spaniers lawyers should point this out to refute the states claim that psu football and facilities ebabled his abuse vs JS access to kids. As long as he had access to kids he found a way to get them to work out/shower.
Read that Curley and Schultz are expected to testify that they (Curley, Schultz, and Spanier) thought of the 1998 incident right away when confronted with McQueary account.
Why does that matter? 1998 WAS KNOWN TO AUTHORITIES AND INVESTIGATED! Sandusky wasn't even charged! Apparently it was up to Spanier, Curley, and Schultz to go vigilante justice on Sandusky.
Why does that matter? 1998 WAS KNOWN TO AUTHORITIES AND INVESTIGATED! Sandusky wasn't even charged! Apparently it was up to Spanier, Curley, and Schultz to go vigilante justice on Sandusky.
Does this mean we can finally put to bed any notion that Curley, Schultz, or Spanier actually did call DPW or CYS and the report was ignored/deleted?
PSU Football wasn't that popular when Dawn/AF dreamed up their tale. You couldn't give tickets away.
The culture of TSM and CYS was evident. In their trained expert eyes, JS could apparently do no wrong, even when doing naked bear hugs from behind in the showers with TSM kids. Smh
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Of course he got off easy, he complied with state law, university policy, and current NCAA guideline. He was praised by the AG for his actions.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/paterno_praised_for_acting_app.html
"Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno did the right thing and reported an eye-witness report of child sex abuse by Jerry Sandusky in the football locker room in 2002, according to the indictment released this morning by the state Attorney General".
Telling DPW and telling CYS are two different things. We know they didnt tell DPW two weeks later (since JS agreed his behavior was wrong and needed to stop when TC confronted him about it).
What we don't know and probably will never know for sure is whether or not CC CYS was informed within 48 hrs (which is what the law at the time required for mandatory reporters).
All of that is moot though since none of the admins were mandatory reporters.
Their report to TSM should be enough to quash any EWOC charges but since PA is a corrupt cesspool the prosecution wants to desperately keep someone at Psu as the main bad guy instead of JR and his cronies who ignored numerous reports about JS inappropriate behavior over the years. That is real EWOC, not this BS they are trying to get Spanier on.
How did you get in your not a resident of PA so you can't represent the residents of PA.
Hey, everybody! Look at this shiny object! Shhh! Don't look behind this curtain! Shiny object here! Shiny object!
I was wondering the same thing.
EPC I believe you are shadow boxing...I think the moderators have removed the trolls, I see they just bounced "Atch_Fan" after two or three posts. Good for them,
If one of Curley, Schultz, or Spanier contacted CYS, Spanier would absolutely be saying that at trial and it's pretty ridiculous to think otherwise. If this trial comes and goes with nobody - Spanier, Curley, Schultz, Courtney, Raykovitz, etc. - testifying under oath that they personally reported it to CYS, we can say with absolute certainty that it didn't occur.
Let's wait until all of the testimony is in...
I only have enough fuel to use my time machine one more time. I was going to go back and stop JS at the source of his victims, the second mile. But what I learned from Roxine is that I would be better served to go back to 2001 and make sure Spanier called the police and maybe stopped one incident.
Same way the PSU lawyer got into the grand jury with CSS....??
Great smokescreen for MSU and Nassar, especially after getting hit with 23 new charges. Our AG really knows how to protect others.
Spanier's attorneys know through discovery what is going to be put into evidence and what the witnesses are going to testify to. If Spanier's attorneys know that someone's going to testify to the one piece of exonerating evidence (reporting to CYS) that exists for their client, they would have at least mentioned it during their opening statement - not to mention at any point in the 5+ years of legal filings that got us to this point. From what I can tell, they didn't and haven't. That should lead to only one conclusion.
My guess is that it is what it is. We already know the facts. It will come down to who you believe.
Do you believe MM, and that he told his posse something different than he told C&S? Or do you believe that MM told the same incoherent story he told his posse (or worse)? Was there something actionable in there, that by ignoring it, caused them to break the law? And if so, why didn't someone in his posse report it?
That is going to be the bottom line.
Mike McQuery on the other hand totally mishandled the situation.
So C/S/S took the same action in 2001 that DPW. CYS and DA did in 1998. Tell JS not to be alone with kids only this time it worked much better. Oh wait they did EVEN MORE than DPW CYS and OAG with a lot less evidence by contacting TSM. Sure these guys are evil.
They won't . This trial is not about root causes but about the actions of Graham Spanier. Root causes is just a deflection.
Well, that's the problem with the state being allowed to flat out ignore SOL laws. These guys don't have clear memories about something from 10 years ago so it was hard for them to be absolutely certain about something so long in the past. Both Courtney and Schultz testified at the GJ or Prelims (can't remember which one) that they thought the same agency as '98 (CC CYS) was told about MM's report. Why isn't that enough for you? It was under oath.
What if it was Harmon that made the report to CC CYS in 2001? You know, the guy who made it harder for the '98 report to be searched for/found and the guy who the OAG bizarrely has been treating with kid gloves this whole time (along with Baldwin)?? Harmon was one of the few people at PSU that was a mandatory reporter re: 2001 and who did something that may be categorized as a "cover up", yet the OAG didn't throw the book at him.
What I keep asking myself is, according to the state, if it's so important whether or not CC CYS was told about 2001, why did the State via Sassano literally do MINIMAL investigation into it? Sassano testified that he spoke to a grand total of 2 freaking people (one of whom-Lauro- never even worked at CC CYS) to make the determination that MM's report was never forwarded to CYS in 2001. He claimed that once the state realized that 2002 was the wrong year (lol) he went back and asked the same two people about a 2001 incident. What a super sleth this guy is! The state seemed to want nothing to do with really digging into whether or not a report was ever made to CC CYS in 2001. Shocking!
Yes, heaven forbid we actually get to the bottom of how this happened, let's just move along with our witch hunt of an at BEST tangential person then call it a day.
And this is why children are still at risk in Pennsylvania.
Those are two separate issues , however you cannot stop child abuse if people don't act on reports. Getting to the root causes should involve investigating complaints . Until there are complaints charities and adoption agencies will not have any reason to deny access to kids.
When you buy a gun you fill out a form and get a background check. You can have ten bodies buried in your cellar ( your murder victims ) but so far you haven't been caught,
And you won't get caught when witnesses are ignored. Reports are part of fixing this system .
name ONE "victim's advocate" who has done a damn thing to help kids at risk in PA . . .
Sorry but that is not good enough because if they immediately thought of the 1998 incident, the red flag should have been on fire, despite what McQ told them. He was disturbed enough to have multiple conversations no matter how wish-washy the details were, and that should have propelled C/S/S into CYA mode.
Exactly right. who knew it had to be reported to C.Y.A., C.Y.S., the "police" (whoever that is), your boss and/or M.O.U.S.E.? IMHO, anyone who witnessed this debacle, in similar circumstances, will be slamming their locker door and hustling off to catch the last half hour of "Rudy."
I gave EPC the wrong info.....looks like the bacon guy was not removed.
How are season ticket sales going this year?
Well, their testimony that they thought it was reported is "not enough" for me because there's a pretty big difference between testifying that you thought something was done and testifying that you did something. Testifying that you thought someone called CYS or DPW certainly ain't the same thing as testifying that you called CYS or DPW. And so far, a whole lot of people have testified and nobody's testified that they were the person who actually called. Harmon has already testified and been cross-examined once, and somehow the one piece of exonerating evidence that you're arguing might exist didn't manage to come up.
And even further, I'm not sure why there needed to have been some sort of extensive search for a CYS report that nobody (outside of Ray Blehar) has ever testified under oath to have ever made. It's not as though one of the defendants has been shouting from the rooftops, "No! You have it all wrong! I reported the allegation that Jerry Sandusky was potentially abusing children to CYS in 2001, I remember doing it! There must have been some report on file somewhere that documents what I remember doing!" as you would expect someone who has been awaiting trial for five years for not doing that one specific thing to do.
And if you're going to try and tell me that all of these men have somehow managed to forget filing a formal report of potential child abuse to a state agency about their very well-known, very important former defensive coordinator - which would probably the only time any one of them have ever done something like that in their lives - you're probably not going to come up with a very convincing argument, as that would defy all measures of logic and common sense.
No, root causes are the problem and what created this whole damn disaster. If Gricar and others do their damn job, we are not here.
This trial is not about GS. It's about exacting a pound of flesh from anyone other than the state employees responsible for the protection of children.
