Ohio state Vs. Meyer

[Obliviax]

They way this is worded I'm not sure Urban really has that strong of a case but I'd defer to the lawyers on the board. Also, OSU isn't the only one in line for embarrassment if this thing goes south, Urban should have an interest in this ending quietly.

its not about the case, its about the PR. As long as Meyer has enough evidence to get a judge to rule that it can see the inside of a courtroom, tOSU will cave and pay dearly. And I don't see why it wouldn't see the inside of a courtroom. to me, the contract is way too broad. If Meyer followed tOSU's rules, Title IX and reported this to the AD why should he be fired? The only issue is his lying to the press, which happens all the time. I am sure Meyer can point to dozens of times he mislead the press at the direction of the University.

 

[LoyalandTrueLion]

Funny you should say that ... Don't I remember a time when a couple of high ranking PSU officials (i.e. his "bosses") went over to Joe's house to try and talk him into retiring and he basically threw them off his front porch?

That's also one of the biggest myths at Penn State. Not only were they not thrown off the porch Graham and Tim had a long meeting with Joe in the house addressing concerns of the program.

Yes a legend grew out of it that all 3 help perpetuate.

 

[PSUSignore]

Funny you should say that ... Don't I remember a time when a couple of high ranking PSU officials (i.e. his "bosses") went over to Joe's house to try and talk him into retiring and he basically threw them off his front porch?

Remember when it came out afterwards that this story was a bit of an elaboration because it played better in the media that way?

 

[MoyerJones]

Yesterday’s “news” about suspension was a trial balloon to see media response and also to see if anything else comes to light.

Right now, Meyers biggest offense is lying to media. All he had to say was “this is a touchy subject that doesn’t just affect Zach but also his family. Bringing his wife and family life into the public at B1G media day is not something that I am willing to do.”

Right now his biggest jeopardy is potential for other skeletons that are uncovered in investigation. (Freeh never found anything else - testament to Paterno/Staff/Team)

I could see a situation where OSU suspends Meyer and/or prolongs the investigation and the relationship between Meyer and Admin sours to the point that Meyer wants out of the contract in an amicable split where both can say nothing was uncovered. (If NCAA doesn’t step in...its just left at that)

 

[fastlax16]

its not about the case, its about the PR. As long as Meyer has enough evidence to get a judge to rule that it can see the inside of a courtroom, tOSU will cave and pay dearly. And I don't see why it wouldn't see the inside of a courtroom. to me, the contract is way too broad. If Meyer followed tOSU's rules, Title IX and reported this to the AD why should he be fired? The only issue is his lying to the press, which happens all the time. I am sure Meyer can point to dozens of times he mislead the press at the direction of the University.

Who really looks worse in the public (not Bucknut) eye. The school getting rid of a coach who had a wife beater and womanizer on his staff or the coach suing the school that fired him?

If the school fires him for: “Commission of or participation in by Coach of any act, situation, or occurrence which, in Ohio State's judgment, brings Coach and/or Ohio State into public disrepute, embarrassment, contempt, scandal or ridicule.” they’re not firing him for reporting. They’re firing him for allowing this entire shitshow (public disrepute/Scandal/embarrassment) to develop on his watch.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Funny you should say that ... Don't I remember a time when a couple of high ranking PSU officials (i.e. his "bosses") went over to Joe's house to try and talk him into retiring and he basically threw them off his front porch?

I do remember that but that was not because of any off the field issues. He told them they'd win soon (and they did).

 

[NittPicker]

That's also one of the biggest myths at Penn State. Not only were they not thrown off the porch Graham and Tim had a long meeting with Joe in the house addressing concerns of the program.

Yes a legend grew out of it that all 3 help perpetuate.

Reports from that time almost made me think Spanier and Curley walked onto the Paterno front porch and everything went to hell. A shotgun wielding Joe threw open the front door and yelled, "Get the f**k off my property or I'll pump your guts full of lead!!!" Of course they were afraid to call the police because Joe was the emperor of central PA.

 

[Obliviax]

Who really looks worse in the public (not Bucknut) eye. The school getting rid of a coach who had a wife beater and womanizer on his staff or the coach suing the school that fired him?

If the school fires him for: “Commission of or participation in by Coach of any act, situation, or occurrence which, in Ohio State's judgment, brings Coach and/or Ohio State into public disrepute, embarrassment, contempt, scandal or ridicule.” they’re not firing him for reporting. They’re firing him for allowing this entire shitshow (public disrepute/Scandal/embarrassment) to develop on his watch.

I can't disagree more. Meyer has nothing to lose and tOSU a ton to lose.

Again, we don't know the details, but if Meyer followed all of the NCAA and tOSU guidelines, he can argue that it was not he that brought tOSU into public disrepute, etc., but the University itself based on those rules that Meyer had to follow. It was tOSU, by their rules, that caused the problem. They put Meyer in a no-win situation: he followed their rules and was fired for it.

 

[fastlax16]

I can't disagree more. Meyer has nothing to lose and tOSU a ton to lose.

Again, we don't know the details, but if Meyer followed all of the NCAA and tOSU guidelines, he can argue that it was not he that brought tOSU into public disrepute, etc., but the University itself based on those rules that Meyer had to follow. It was tOSU, by their rules, that caused the problem. They put Meyer in a no-win situation: he followed their rules and was fired for it.

Meyer is the CEO of Ohio State football. CEOs of companies are dismissed all the time for scandals that occur on their watch that they may or may not have had a direct hand in because that is part of the job description. You own the culture and if the culture goes to shit that is on you. He’s fired for allowing a toxic culture to develop not whatever happened with Smith in one incident in 2015. You’re thinking small potatoes not big picture.

 

[Delco Lion]

 

[Obliviax]

Meyer is the CEO of Ohio State football. CEOs of companies are dismissed all the time for scandals that occur on their watch that they may or may not have had a direct hand in because that is part of the job description. You own the culture and if the culture goes to shit that is on you. He’s fired for allowing a toxic culture to develop not whatever happened with Smith in one incident in 2015. You’re thinking small potatoes not big picture.

Yep...and then they get sued.

Meyer will seek to retain his reputation and buy out money.

 

[BudatPSU]

To all who believe this:
I have several bridges for sale. Please DM me if you are interested.

Can't, I am in the process of negotiating with a Nigerian Prince to help him move money to the US and I do not have ay spare cash.

 

[Ceasar]

I understand the suspicion. Info is solid. Trying to let the rest of the B1G know.

I will say, of all the things I have read in the past few days from people who claim to have sources, to me, this is the most plausible. I think we are all guilty of overthinking this. There is no way OSU can keep Meyer and spin it to make it look acceptable. Remember, he was not suspended for lying, he was suspended for the university to get to the bottom of what the heck was going on with Zack Smith and Meyer's involvement. The more time that passes, the more ugly reports have come out. I also sense that behind the scenes, as the poster suggests, Meyer is playing hardball and that can't be appreciated by the university. So I would think there would be a predisposition to want to make a change. Whether they have the courage to follow through, guess that's the question.

 

[fastlax16]

Yep...and then they get sued.

Meyer will seek to retain his reputation and buy out money.

So Urban isn’t responsible for the culture of the program he runs and is not responsible when that culture goes to hell. Got it.

He can seek whatever he wants( unicorns, gold at the end of the rainbow, a clean reputation) but that doesn’t mean he comes out smelling roses. He already has a questionable past.

 

[Obliviax]

So Urban isn’t responsible for the culture of the program he runs and is not responsible when that culture goes to hell. Got it.

He can seek whatever he wants( unicorns, gold at the end of the rainbow, a clean reputation) but that doesn’t mean he comes out smelling roses. He already has a questionable past.

I understand what you are saying...but if Meyer followed the rules in reporting, as tOSU and the NCAA have written, what did he do wrong at tOSU? (outside of lying to the reporter). The most damning thing I can think of is Smith having the affair with a subordinate. One would think Meyer had to know about that (maybe not?). I do agree, if he knew about the affair and the 09 and 15 issues, his decision to retain Smith is enough for that clause to kick in. But, it only matters what a judge and jury think.

 

[Ceasar]

Yep...and then they get sued.

Meyer will seek to retain his reputation and buy out money.

I cannot imagine a scenario where Meyer and OSU end up in litigation. They are both too smart to go down that road. I think I read somewhere that Meyer would be owed around 40M if wrongfully terminated. Obviously if OSU terminates their legal team has reviewed the contract plus the investigative report and concluded they are on safe ground. While Urban may be inclined to fight for his reputation, eventually he will listen to reason for his own selfish reasons - he will get a negotiated settlement of maybe 20M or so, his reputation does not get damaged further, he goes back to ESPN for a year or two where everyone tells him how great he is, he rehabilitates his image, and he gets a plum job the first time a USC, LSU type of job opens up.

 

[M1Buckeye]

Unnamed sources say Meyer worked with Putin to steal the election for Trump.

 

[fastlax16]

I understand what you are saying...but if Meyer followed the rules in reporting, as tOSU and the NCAA have written, what did he do wrong at tOSU? (outside of lying to the reporter). The most damning thing I can think of is Smith having the affair with a subordinate. One would think Meyer had to know about that (maybe not?). I do agree, if he knew about the affair and the 09 and 15 issues, his decision to retain Smith is enough for that clause to kick in. But, it only matters what a judge and jury think.

Again you’re thinking small picture not big. You don’t need to fire him because of one incident of did he report 2015. You fire him for the entire shit show he has allowed to develop and directly contributed to.

Do you think the culture at OSU football is a good one?

 

[GreggK]

I have to say, I find the whole Hiram De Fries / Urban Meyer side story to be very strange. What grown ass man needs a "life-coach". It seems so odd to me. So a formal oil executive befriends Urban Meyer while he was an assistant at Colorado State and then follows him around for the rest of his career? It just seems a little off to me.

I don't know, maybe he is just a fanboy.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/98/05/06/business/story2.html

 

[Delco Lion]

I have to say, I find the whole Hiram De Fries / Urban Meyer side story to be very strange. What grown ass man needs a "life-coach". It seems so odd to me. So a formal oil executive befriends Urban Meyer while he was an assistant at Colorado State and then follows him around for the rest of his career? It just seems a little off to me.

I don't know, maybe he is just a fanboy.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/98/05/06/business/story2.html

He is what is known as a "fixer". I'd be shocked if he wasnt knee deep in this mess.

 

[Obliviax]

Again you’re thinking small picture not big. You don’t need to fire bike because of one incident of did he report 2015. You fire him for the entire shit show he has allowed to develop and directly contributed to.

Do you think the culture at OSU football is a good one?

...and a) expose the problem because people will want to know why he was fired and b) risk Smith suing them for wrongful termination (he has never been charged with a crime).

 

[pandaczar12]

nor sure if serious....we don't know all of the issues, of course. But Meyer seems to have reported it at tOSU and the police were called. Short of Meyer going all Columbo, he relied on them to do their job and kept the coach. we've seen that the wife, to some extent, is a nut. Most of the serious evidence was at FL, not tOSU. But the police investigated that too. Unless you've got evidence of Meyer interfering with the police, I don't know of what he did wrong.

Urban is the most powerful man in Columbus. It's simply not enough for him to report and get out of the way. He needed to use his considerable power to "do more".

 

[OhioLion]

In today’s political climate, the optics of keeping Meyer (regardless of his ultimate culpability) are just bad.

To the world outside of the fanatics supporting da ohowIhate suckeyes. To those wearing the red and gray, nah, it's all good.

OL

 

[fastlax16]

...and a) expose the problem because people will want to know why he was fired and b) risk Smith suing them for wrongful termination (he has never been charged with a crime).

Smiths contract doesn’t require he be charged with a crime to be fired. What bizarre world do we live in where as long as you aren’t charged with a crime you can’t be fired for your actions? Go into work today and bang a coworker in your office, film it, then take some dick pics at a work event. Tell your boss and then sue the company when they fire you for conduct even though you’ve never been charged with a crime. Let me know how it goes.

 

[Obliviax]

Smiths contract doesn’t require he be charged with a crime to be fired. What bizarre world do we live in where as long as you aren’t charged with a crime you can’t be fired for your actions? Go into work today and bang a coworker in your office, film it, then take some dick pics at a work event. Tell your boss and then sue the company when they fire you for conduct even though you’ve never been charged with a crime. Let me know how it goes.

Fair enough...we also have guys kneeling at NFL games to make political statements who are suing the league for their lack of support. You can sue anyone for anything. The fact that this guy may well be innocent, his wife is a loon and his mother in law is also a loon, make this a gray area. And when there are gray areas, there are lawsuits.

Sometimes, you can't win. I've got a friend, software company owner, who was sued for sexual harassment. The guy who sued was gay. He was trying to embarrass the owner who was about to be presented with an industry award. As part of the lawsuit, the attorney tried to make a case that the company allowed employees to have pirated software on their workstations and wanted to do a full audit. There are patent trolls who buy patents then sue anyone and everyone who could possibly be sued. Most settle out of court because the settlement is less than the legal cost to fight it. I am currently in a situation where my company's software misstated the "about me" claims. A lawyer is suing making the claim the company did this on purpose to falsely increase share price. In law, the truth isn't the truth. Just the way it is.

With that, I am done with the topic. appreciate the convo and civil tone!

 

[fastlax16]

.

In what sense? I’m just saying this argument that if he isn’t charged he can’t be fired for cause is a false argument. It isn’t a case of “if the glove don’t fit you must acquit”. There are plenty of actions someone can take that will result in termination that wouldn’t result in legal charges. Most of what Zach Smith is accused of would fall in that bucket if true.

 

[nittanyfan333]

I'll first say that I haven't read all three pages of this. That said, keep in mind that there are more than a few people on this board that like to create screen names on the pitt board just to troll them. Don't think for a minute that there aren't others out there on other boards that do the same.

 

[Lion Lineage]

According to McMurphy, TOSU is going with a “verbal recap” of the investigation so there is less written record of the findings. The fix is in, but McMurphy hints it may come back to bite TOSU in the a$$:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...-mcmurphy-investigation-troubling-aspect/amp/

 

[Locolion]

How amazing is it that Emmert and Delaney haven't gone after MSU and OSU? Only two differences that I see. 1) Their BOTs didn't throw their coaches under the bus, and 2) The coaches don't have the fame and reputation of Joe Paterno.

And they got dragged over coals for the rush to judgement on several cases (Psu, Miami). Maybe they learned

 

[MANASSASPSU]

Yesterday’s “news” about suspension was a trial balloon to see media response and also to see if anything else comes to light.

Right now, Meyers biggest offense is lying to media. All he had to say was “this is a touchy subject that doesn’t just affect Zach but also his family. Bringing his wife and family life into the public at B1G media day is not something that I am willing to do.”

Right now his biggest jeopardy is potential for other skeletons that are uncovered in investigation. (Freeh never found anything else - testament to Paterno/Staff/Team)

I could see a situation where OSU suspends Meyer and/or prolongs the investigation and the relationship between Meyer and Admin sours to the point that Meyer wants out of the contract in an amicable split where both can say nothing was uncovered. (If NCAA doesn’t step in...its just left at that)

I think they will drop the news the same day a decision is made in the Manafort trial

 

[Locolion]

meyer doesn't care about the Tosu brand. He enabled a spouse abuser to protect his legacy.

WIN.

What do you think his post-FL time at ESPN was - a little tour to schmooze and rep-protect from the criminal fall-out there. Slobbered from his knees on all the talking heads there. He had such a crap personality too. Zero charisma.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Smiths contract doesn’t require he be charged with a crime to be fired. What bizarre world do we live in where as long as you aren’t charged with a crime you can’t be fired for your actions? Go into work today and bang a coworker in your office, film it, then take some dick pics at a work event. Tell your boss and then sue the company when they fire you for conduct even though you’ve never been charged with a crime. Let me know how it goes.

Truth bomb...

 

[Obliviax]

In what sense? I’m just saying this argument that if he isn’t charged he can’t be fired for cause is a false argument. It isn’t a case of “if the glove don’t fit you must acquit”

He is on a contract, not a standard "right to work" employee. So the terms of his employment are governed by his contract and the state/federal laws. Then you factor in non-employment issues like defamation. Finally, as I said, there are the issues that have nothing to do with "law" like PR. Take PSU for example: They paid out on actions a former employee did that did not involve a student: there was no involvement from PSU other than 2001 was not reported via guidelines that was not a law until after 2001. Legally, what liability did PSU have? Its hard to imagine they had much legal liability, but paid it out so they weren't blaming a victim in court.

 

[pandaczar12]

I'll first say that I haven't read all three pages of this. That said, keep in mind that there are more than a few people on this board that like to create screen names on the pitt board just to troll them. Don't think for a minute that there aren't others out there on other boards that do the same.

You don't need to read stuff and learn facts. Just come to whatever conclusion you want based on FOOTBALL, and repeat it over and over.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Who really looks worse in the public (not Bucknut) eye. The school getting rid of a coach who had a wife beater and womanizer on his staff or the coach suing the school that fired him?

If the school fires him for: “Commission of or participation in by Coach of any act, situation, or occurrence which, in Ohio State's judgment, brings Coach and/or Ohio State into public disrepute, embarrassment, contempt, scandal or ridicule.” they’re not firing him for reporting. They’re firing him for allowing this entire shitshow (public disrepute/Scandal/embarrassment) to develop on his watch.

Which is why we need to see what the investigation uncovers. If his only participation was trying to stop whatever “something” he knew about, where’s the terminable offense? That’s not participating. Just having a bad apple performing scandalous acts in the background isn’t allowing something to develop, even if it ends up being embarrassing.

But your point re who looks worse is a very good one. All look bad.

 

[fastlax16]

He is on a contract, not a standard "right to work" employee. So the terms of his employment are governed by his contract and the state/federal laws. Then you factor in non-employment issues like defamation. Finally, as I said, there are the issues that have nothing to do with "law" like PR. Take PSU for example: They paid out on actions a former employee did that did not involve a student: there was no involvement from PSU other than 2001 was not reported via guidelines that was not a law until after 2001. Legally, what liability did PSU have? Its hard to imagine they had much legal liability, but paid it out so they weren't blaming a victim in court.

That is not an apples to apples comparison. In this situation Zach Smith=Sandusky. PSU would not have paid out Sandusky for fear of bad PR challenging him in court.

Here is a copy of the assistant football coach contract at OSU (Kevin Wilsons). Section 5.0 deals with termination. If you read that section and still think OSUs hands were tied with no charges filed then I'm really baffled to be honest.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/348657238/

 

[Gnat91]

 

[lionville]

No cover up necessary. Just defiance and ignorance. When people don’t care what you do, you can do whatever you want.

A friend of mine had a run-in with a collegiate coach related to his son, and took his issue to the Athletic Director's office. He was told point blank that coach can do whatever he wants, even if it is abusing players.

 

[PSUHarry33]

I find it funny that they’re floating this “time served” crap. If he’s been contacting recruits telling them that he isn’t going anywhere, has he really been serving time?

Yeah and time served and getting paid simultaneously. Darren Rovell ran the numbers. He's made something in the area of $395K during is Administrative Leave.

 

[PSUHarry33]

I understand what you are saying...but if Meyer followed the rules in reporting, as tOSU and the NCAA have written, what did he do wrong at tOSU? (outside of lying to the reporter). The most damning thing I can think of is Smith having the affair with a subordinate. One would think Meyer had to know about that (maybe not?). I do agree, if he knew about the affair and the 09 and 15 issues, his decision to retain Smith is enough for that clause to kick in. But, it only matters what a judge and jury think.

How about keeping a woman abuser on his staff all those years? I think that is wrong. Reporting it isn't enough. Smith was Meyer's direct subordinate. He should have been gone a long time ago.