Ohio State?

[tabenn]

One Ohio State wrestling board covers a lot of the details about this year's disappointing Buckeye performance...

http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7332&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I'm not saying that Tom Ryan needs to go, but the staff needs shaken up and changes are needed. When your team is consistently bad from one position, you can't keep trying the same stuff and hoping it works.

Right now our only hope to have a competent bottom wrestler is to recruit a generational talent, and even then, it's not a guarantee (Tomasello).

If Tom Ryan is unwilling to make changes to try to improve his team, then that's a failure at the top. If the Ohio State football team put out a team that was good on offense but terrible on defense every year, the coach wouldn't survive, and there would have been multiple coaching changes.

Ohio State is falling behind. Mattin and Marinelli are Ohio guys who rode and got out. Hoffman is a PA guy who got rode. It's not all about Ohio high school wrestlers, it's failure to develop wrestlers in their worst positions once they get to Ohio State.

pretty strong statement from this board, that I happen to agree with

I think Tom Ryan is a very good coach, but if Ohio State comes back next year with the same staff, I will consider that an acknowledgement that he doesn't really want to get better, he's happy with the current position of Ohio State, which is a top 5 team that cannot challenge for a national title.

 

[RoarLions1]

I'm not saying that Tom Ryan needs to go, but the staff needs shaken up and changes are needed. When your team is consistently bad from one position, you can't keep trying the same stuff and hoping it works.

Right now our only hope to have a competent bottom wrestler is to recruit a generational talent, and even then, it's not a guarantee (Tomasello).

If Tom Ryan is unwilling to make changes to try to improve his team, then that's a failure at the top. If the Ohio State football team put out a team that was good on offense but terrible on defense every year, the coach wouldn't survive, and there would have been multiple coaching changes.

Ohio State is falling behind. Mattin and Marinelli are Ohio guys who rode and got out. Hoffman is a PA guy who got rode. It's not all about Ohio high school wrestlers, it's failure to develop wrestlers in their worst positions once they get to Ohio State.

pretty strong statement from this board, that I happen to agree with

I think Tom Ryan is a very good coach, but if Ohio State comes back next year with the same staff, I will consider that an acknowledgement that he doesn't really want to get better, he's happy with the current position of Ohio State, which is a top 5 team that cannot challenge for a national title.

Don't agree with this at all. Jaggers and Diagnov have been with the program since 2016 (I believe), during which time (2016-2019) tOSU went 3, 2, 2, 2 at the NCAA Championships. Jordan, as a volunteer assistant was new in 2019. Plenty of evidence that there are factors not related to coaching that are going on here. I get that fans go straight to "fire a coach" mode, but it is often an over-reaction.

 

[jack66]

I don't know if it's the personality of the kids they are recruiting or the way the staff is coaching, but this year's team wrestled with a very defensive posture. Against us it seemed their strategy was to wrestle the edge (what was that small mat all about?), wait to counter our shot, then reach for wood if they got in trouble.

In the past they've had wrestlers who liked to score, so maybe this was just a one year thing.

 

[El-Jefe]

Don't agree with this at all. Jaggers and Diagnov have been with the program since 2016 (I believe), during which time (2016-2019) tOSU went 3, 2, 2, 2 at the NCAA Championships. Jordan, as a volunteer assistant was new in 2019. Plenty of evidence that there are factors not related to coaching that are going on here. I get that fans go straight to "fire a coach" mode, but it is often an over-reaction.

This, plus the entire "Ryan is stuck in his ways" notion is laughable.

A lot of the stuff we make fun of him for, are his attempts to do things differently. They're not all original thoughts, but he isn't complacent.

That doesn't mean he can't do better. And maybe he could use an outside perspective -- maybe bringing in an outside expert for a few weeks as a consultant (for example, Bruce Baumgartner is retired).

But fire Ryan or the assistants? Dumb.

 

[nitlion6]

Hoffman struggling on bottom is puzzling. He not only comes from PA, but specifically from a part of PA known for very hard riders. (Such as, for example: his brother Garrett every day in practice.)

He was undersized his HS SO/JR years, and bumped up at 220 or 285 a lot, so he was used to bigger/stronger guys.

Point being: not sure how much is on him vs on the coaches. Maybe the 2 yrs at 184 stunted his development. But from his baseline, he should be better at that bottom than he is in his 3rd year of college.

2 years at 184 means he spent those two years concentrating on maintaining his weight, not developing skills.

 

[El-Jefe]

2 years at 184 means he spent those two years concentrating on maintaining his weight, not developing skills.

He has publicly said that about the 2nd year at 184. Still, can't blame anybody for trying -- he wasn't going to beat out Kollin Moore for the 197 spot.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

I don't know if it's the personality of the kids they are recruiting or the way the staff is coaching, but this year's team wrestled with a very defensive posture. Against us it seemed their strategy was to wrestle the edge (what was that small mat all about?), wait to counter our shot, then reach for wood if they got in trouble.

In the past they've had wrestlers who liked to score, so maybe this was just a one year thing.

If you have any real evidence that the tOSU was small, undersized, or unusual in any way, I'd be interested to see it.

 

[Dar.of.Emur]

Kinner is still on the roster. He got beaten out by Cleary.

This is not true.
Kinner has not been on campus. "Taking the semester off" is all we (fans) know.
Cleary beat Isaac Wilcox in the wrestle offs.
Wilcox is 1st year in the room. Was on Mormon mission last year, cut short due to Covid pandemic.

 

[smalls103]

The above was the #1 recruiting class that year. But in all reality, it was over-hyped by Flo. They tend to like quantity over quality. Only Kirk and Kharchla were cant-miss prospects. Decatur was a top5 guy, but a lot of people had big question marks over his ability in Folk.

your post was very informative but this part was bizarre. Kerk and Kharchla gave tOSU 1/5th of the country's #1 prospects at their weights that year.

there was no class remotely as good as that.

not to mention, i don't prefer quantity over quality. Far from it. I've ranked tOSU classes in the Top 10 when they only brought in 1 or 2 guys.

 

[Dar.of.Emur]

your post was very informative but this part was bizarre. Kerk and Kharchla gave tOSU 1/5th of the country's #1 prospects at their weights that year.

there was no class remotely as good as that.

not to mention, i don't prefer quantity over quality. Far from it. I've ranked tOSU classes in the Top 10 when they only brought in 1 or 2 guys.

Willie- My statement may have been too broad, and certainly not directed at you- the best in the business, and its not even close.
But, the 2016 rankings and discussion on FRL is where my statement came from. Putting NC State at #1, due to (I think it was Pyles) argument that they "filled their lineup with this one class" (with Hidley, and a bunch of mid level guys), and putting Penn St 2nd, when they had Mark Hall and Nick Suriano in a small class.
While listening to the FRL, I am thinking: Penn State just signed, minimum, 40 points at nationals, just in Hall and Suriano. NC State will be lucky to get half of that with their entire 7 or 8 guy class.

2016 Recruiting Class

Rating the Division I Wrestling recruiting classes for the Class of 2016.

www.flowrestling.org

 

[dunkej01]

Willie- My statement may have been too broad, and certainly not directed at you- the best in the business, and its not even close.
But, the 2016 rankings and discussion on FRL is where my statement came from. Putting NC State at #1, due to (I think it was Pyles) argument that they "filled their lineup with this one class" (with Hidley, and a bunch of mid level guys), and putting Penn St 2nd, when they had Mark Hall and Nick Suriano in a small class.
While listening to the FRL, I am thinking: Penn State just signed, minimum, 40 points at nationals, just in Hall and Suriano. NC State will be lucky to get half of that with their entire 7 or 8 guy class.

2016 Recruiting Class

Rating the Division I Wrestling recruiting classes for the Class of 2016.

www.flowrestling.org

Lololol2016lolololo
#theboardremembers

 

[82bordeaux]

not directed at you- the best in the business, and its not even close.

 

[District four]

This, plus the entire "Ryan is stuck in his ways" notion is laughable.

A lot of the stuff we make fun of him for, are his attempts to do things differently. They're not all original thoughts, but he isn't complacent.

That doesn't mean he can't do better. And maybe he could use an outside perspective -- maybe bringing in an outside expert for a few weeks as a consultant (for example, Bruce Baumgartner is retired).

But fire Ryan or the assistants? Dumb.

It's because he didn't go to aruba this year due to covid he didn't get rejuvenated like most years lol

 

[smalls103]

Willie- My statement may have been too broad, and certainly not directed at you- the best in the business, and its not even close.
But, the 2016 rankings and discussion on FRL is where my statement came from. Putting NC State at #1, due to (I think it was Pyles) argument that they "filled their lineup with this one class" (with Hidley, and a bunch of mid level guys), and putting Penn St 2nd, when they had Mark Hall and Nick Suriano in a small class.
While listening to the FRL, I am thinking: Penn State just signed, minimum, 40 points at nationals, just in Hall and Suriano. NC State will be lucky to get half of that with their entire 7 or 8 guy class.

2016 Recruiting Class

Rating the Division I Wrestling recruiting classes for the Class of 2016.

www.flowrestling.org

thanks Dar - i see what you're saying.

to be honest i did make a significant pivot to how i evaluated classes at one point. you're right that there was a time when i valued 5 top 50's over two top 10's.

(and i think a case can be made that to certain teams that IS more beneficial.)

that being said, i still think that on paper, and at the time, that tOSU class was the best in the country that year.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

It is so very contingent on dual team vs national tournament along with the state of the program. Jackson left ISU a mess, so Dresser needed numbers of decent guys more than one or two super stars. Programs like PSU,tOSU,Iowa, and the Pokes tend to get mid level guys as walk on or low money guys and have the luxury of loading up with top 10 type talent at multiple weight classes. tOSU has had a couple of busts,a bad injury, and a huge transfer out creating about a 40 point swing. They will jump back into the top 5 as soon as next year imo. Certainly the year after if not next year.

 

[7brwnpsu]

It is so very contingent on dual team vs national tournament along with the state of the program. Jackson left ISU a mess, so Dresser needed numbers of decent guys more than one or two super stars. Programs like PSU,tOSU,Iowa, and the Pokes tend to get mid level guys as walk on or low money guys and have the luxury of loading up with top 10 type talent at multiple weight classes. tOSU has had a couple of busts,a bad injury, and a huge transfer out creating about a 40 point swing. They will jump back into the top 5 as soon as next year imo. Certainly the year after if not next year.

James, out of curiosity, is the fan base at ISU happy with the progress of Dresser?

This is a question, not any type of criticism as I have not followed them closely, especially in this weird season.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

James, out of curiosity, is the fan base at ISU happy with the progress of Dresser?

This is a question, not any type of criticism as I have not followed them closely, especially in this weird season.

It is mixed. I know the main group of alumni (old dues with opinions) are extremely happy that our guys now compete for 7 minutes instead of mailing it in late in matches. I think the coaching is everything we hoped for, but the recruiting could use a bump. We love Metcalf and I can say he is a first class human in everything he does. KJ (whom I love as a person) really did leave this place a mess. The old regime would have had a guy like Parker just getting through his career hoping to qualify, but these coaches have him on the cusp of AA. It is a slow process rebuilding from the ground up. Dresser is so good at communicating with the alumni and sharing in the frustration instead of dodging the questions that most of us are willing to be very patient. I do wish we could have somehow kept Willie Miklus around as he is such a great young man and role model. My friends all wrestled in the program or were at least close to the program while in school, so they know D1 wrestling is a bear. Most of us were guys that you guys would have wanted replaced after the second dual of the season.