Ok Coach 4-14, now is the time…

[ShoreLion85]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

 

[voltz99]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

Why did Joe have a losing record vs OSU and UM? What was his excuse?

 

[ShoreLion85]

Why did Joe have a losing record vs OSU and UM? What was his excuse?

Were I the AD, Coach Paterno would have been involuntarily retired after the 1999 along with his entire staff due to the end of season meltdown, and outright fired after the 2001 season. He had a losing record as a Big Ten coach vs OSU and UM because after 1996, he was no longer a great coach, and after 2001 arguably no longer a good one. He rallied a bit from 05-09, and then sunk back into mediocrity until the Sandusky scandal- which would have largely been avoided if PSU moved on from Paterno when they should have.

 

[LandoComando]

Why did Joe have a losing record vs OSU and UM? What was his excuse?

Joe shouldn't have been given a pass either. Some here still cant acknowledge his lack of success

 

[voltz99]

Were I the AD, Coach Paterno would have been involuntarily retired after the 1999 along with his entire staff due to the end of season meltdown, and outright fired after the 2001 season. He had a losing record as a Big Ten coach vs OSU and UM because after 1996, he was no longer a great coach, and after 2001 arguably no longer a good one. He rallied a bit from 05-09, and then sunk back into mediocrity until the Sandusky scandal- which would have largely been avoided if PSU moved on from Paterno when they should have.

Then what?


Who has a winning record vs OSU and UM who would want to coach at PSU? Urban already turned the job down. Saban and Dabo are not coming here. Dont forget your success with honor BS. You dont want any coaches with baggage. Give us the list who you would have hired. You probably wanted Golden and or Rhule(.500 career coach)

 

[ShoreLion85]

Good question, but honestly it was a long time ago, and I don’t recall who were top candidates back then, circa 2000-2001.

 

[LandoComando]

Then what?


Who has a winning record vs OSU and UM who would want to coach at PSU? Urban already turned the job down. Saban and Dabo are not coming here. Dont forget your success with honor BS. You dont want any coaches with baggage. Give us the list who you would have hired. You probably wanted Golden and or Rhule(.500 career coach)

Kirby Smart was a DC when hired at Georgia. Risk isn't always a bad thing. If someone can't get to the next level, see Richt, you move on.

 

[Jerry]

Were I the AD, Coach Paterno would have been involuntarily retired after the 1999 along with his entire staff due to the end of season meltdown, and outright fired after the 2001 season. He had a losing record as a Big Ten coach vs OSU and UM because after 1996, he was no longer a great coach, and after 2001 arguably no longer a good one. He rallied a bit from 05-09, and then sunk back into mediocrity until the Sandusky scandal- which would have largely been avoided if PSU moved on from Paterno when they should have.

There's a couple good posts from you in this thread...one I agree with and one I disagree with.

I'll get to the latter in a separate post, but meanwhile, I think you're on target with the comment above.

I loved Joe, but he's a classic example -- and far from the only one -- of a great and legendary sports figure who became bigger than the team and bigger than the institution that employed him while hanging on long after he should have gracefully walked away. Usually such things end sadly. In Joe's case, they ended tragically and disastrously.

 

[bcspsu]

Were I the AD, Coach Paterno would have been involuntarily retired after the 1999 along with his entire staff due to the end of season meltdown, and outright fired after the 2001 season. He had a losing record as a Big Ten coach vs OSU and UM because after 1996, he was no longer a great coach, and after 2001 arguably no longer a good one. He rallied a bit from 05-09, and then sunk back into mediocrity until the Sandusky scandal- which would have largely been avoided if PSU moved on from Paterno when they should have.

I love what Paterno did , but agree with everything that you said, and was going to post something similarly. It's a shame that he lost his fast ball in the late 90s, because from the time that he began at PSU really to the Michigan loss in 1997, PSU had accomplished so much more than both Michigan and OSU in that time, who basically were playing in an uncompetitive conference for most of those seasons. I just wished that Joe in his prime could've had a chance to coach in a lot of those Michigan and OSU games that we lost, because I believe that the results would've been different.

As far as Coach James, he has done a pretty good job here by winning a Big 10 Championship and Fiesta, Cotton and Rose Bowls, continuing to bring in some great talent, and making PSU matter again, but his record against Michigan and OSU is unacceptable and needs to change.

 

[bcspsu]

There's a couple good posts from you in this thread...one I agree with and one I disagree with.

I'll get to the latter in a separate post, but meanwhile, I think you're on target with the comment above.

I loved Joe, but he's a classic example -- and far from the only one -- of a great and legendary sports figure who became bigger than the team and bigger than the institution that employed him while hanging on long after he should have gracefully walked away. Usually such things end sadly. In Joe's case, they ended tragically and disastrously.

I agree. I do give him credit for having one last really good string of seasons before his tenure ended; he did win Big 10 Championships in 2005 and 2008, had 11 win seasons in 2005, 2008 and 2009, and was in position to win a Big 10 division in 2011 until he was fired. However, I never got the feeling that the program was where it had been in his glory years.

 

[Jerry]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

This is the post I disagree with...for reasons stated in another thread.

I think a lot of fans are making this game into an all-or-nothing proposition, and that's a mistake.

The hard fact is we're an underdog in Columbus. Yes, it's a winnable game for sure. But various things have to go right.

My concern is that if we lose, a lot of people will bring the house down on Franklin and effectively give up on the season. This would be ironic, given that we'd still have a real shot at a conference title and maybe even a playoff spot. But not if we go into one of our patented post-Buckeye funks.

Obviously, I'd be thrilled to go unbeaten, but I'm also realistic: a 1-loss season with a win over either top-5 Ohio State or Michigan would be a big step up and a hugely successful year...especially with the talent we're bringing back.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

Man Overboard! 😂

 

[voltz99]

Zero fans wanted to hire Kirby Smart before he want a championship. He also has three times the recruiting budget as PSU.

Does Kirby Smart fit the success with honor bs when he has players dying on their way home from strip clubs with staffers?

 

[bcspsu]

This is the post I disagree with...for reasons stated in another thread.

I think a lot of fans are making this game into an all-or-nothing proposition, and that's a mistake.

The hard fact is we're an underdog in Columbus. Yes, it's a winnable game for sure. But various things have to go right.

My concern is that if we lose, a lot of people will bring the house down on Franklin and effectively give up on the season. This would be ironic, given that we'd still have a real shot at a conference title and maybe even a playoff spot. But not if we go into one of our patented post-Buckeye funks.

Obviously, I'd be thrilled to go unbeaten, but I'm also realistic: a 1-loss season with a win over either top-5 Ohio State or Michigan would be a big step up and a hugely successful year...especially with the talent we're bringing back.

I totally agree. A loss to either OSU or Michigan would be acceptable coupled with a win against either still would put us in a grat position. However, even if we would go 10-2 and be selected to a prime bowl, losses to both of those teams would make this season a failure IMO. We at least must start to go .500 against these two programs; I mean, even during the mediocre to bad seasons in the late 90s and early 2000s, PSU would beat OSU at least 2 out of every 5 seasons.

 

[voltz99]

Good question, but honestly it was a long time ago, and I don’t recall who were top candidates back then, circa 2000-2001.

You can think about it and give us your list of any candidates. You dont even have to remember who you would have hired. Just give us a list of who currently has a winning record vs OSU and UM who would want to come to PSU.

 

[fastlax16]

I find it somewhat disingenuous to lump his osu and michigan records together as if they're the same struggle.

He's 3-6 against Michigan with two of those losses being with the heavily sanctioned 14/15 teams. Not great but not disastrous. He's 3-4 with full scholarships.

The real problem is 1-8 vs OSU, but no one in the conference has beaten them with even semi regularity until Michigan started stealing signals. Prior to the last two seasons Michigan had beaten them three times in the previous two decades...

 

[bcspsu]

I find it somewhat disingenuous to lump his osu and michigan records together as if they're the same struggle.

He's 3-6 against Michigan with two of those losses being with the heavily sanctioned 14/15 teams. Not great but not disastrous. He's 3-4 with full scholarships.

The real problem is 1-8 vs OSU, but no one in the conference has beaten them with even semi regularity until Michigan started stealing signals. Prior to the last two seasons Michigan had beaten them three times in the previous two decades...

Yeah, but from 2014 through 2020, Michigan wasn't a great program, so we should've beaten them several times during those seasons.

It's very frustrating with OSU because, despite OSU having all around better talent and hardly losing any regular season games, PSU lost so many close games to them, including the 2017 game when PSU arguably was a better team and outplayed them for 3 1/2 quarters on the road.

 

[Psubiomed]

I predicted before the season we lose to Osu but we win vs Mich. It all comes down to Mich beating Ohio State or not. I think we know now that we will need the east title and the tiebreaker because 11-1 won't do it with Free shoes literally Playing nobody the rest of the way, and both Oklahoma and Wash with nothing left on their schedule either...

Frankly there is going to be a , BOATLOAD OF BAD BAD media talk from the 4 through 7 teams because I can already see a 3 way 11-1 in the big ten east, and maybe a 1 loss Georgia or bama getting screwed, not to mention that mess if Texas beats ou and they also finish with only 1 loss

No less than 4 teams are straight up getting screwed by the easy schedules in the ACC and SEC and big 12

 

[fastlax16]

Yeah, but from 2014 through 2020, Michigan wasn't a great program, so we should've beaten them several times during those seasons.

It's very frustrating with OSU because, despite OSU having all around better talent and hardly losing any regular season games, PSU lost so many close games to them, including the 2017 game when PSU arguably was a better team and outplayed them for 3 1/2 quarters on the road.

So the two situations are not the same. Which was my point.

The problem with Michigan is we didn't beat them during the two seasons they went 12-0. Damn.

The problem with Ohio State has been kick in the nuts after kick in the nuts, made even worse by the inability to bounce back a few times.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Then what?


Who has a winning record vs OSU and UM who would want to coach at PSU? Urban already turned the job down. Saban and Dabo are not coming here. Dont forget your success with honor BS. You dont want any coaches with baggage. Give us the list who you would have hired. You probably wanted Golden and or Rhule(.500 career coach)

Then what? In the 90s PSU was bigger than OSU. Especially in our market.

Our top players were coming from Ohio to play at Psu.

99 we were ranked number 1 much of the season and had a top rated class.

The class was garbage. We had losing seasons. If Joe steps aside, we can get a top coach and maintain success.

Instead we moved lower and lower. Playing a 1970s offensive system and scuttling talent.

If we moved on we could have salvaged our position.

 

[MacNit2.0]

Why did Joe have a losing record vs OSU and UM? What was his excuse?

Joe’s record was measured positively against better programs than Michigan and Ohio State.

 

[fastlax16]

Then what? In the 90s PSU was bigger than OSU. Especially in our market.

Our top players were coming from Ohio to play at Psu.

99 we were ranked number 1 much of the season and had a top rated class.

The class was garbage. We had losing seasons. If Joe steps aside, we can get a top coach and maintain success.

Instead we moved lower and lower. Playing a 1970s offensive system and scuttling talent.

If we moved on we could have salvaged our position.

Wasn't following the program back then so honest question, if Joe had retired in 99 or the very early 00s would Sandusky have been a strong candidate to replace him?

 

[LandoComando]

Zero fans wanted to hire Kirby Smart before he want a championship. He also has three times the recruiting budget as PSU.

Does Kirby Smart fit the success with honor bs when he has players dying on their way home from strip clubs with staffers?

I thought teams should have hired Kirby for years before he got that job. He was always only interested in two jobs though

Don't care about the honor stuff. It's insincere at best. The objective is to win. Kids at all programs are going to do stupid things to that level.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Wasn't following the program back then so honest question, if Joe had retired in 99 or the very early 00s would Sandusky have been a strong candidate to replace him?

I don't believe so.
If I went back in time.... the then opinion was Sandusky was focused on his 'charity' and that was an issue for Paterno.

Paterno pushed Sandusky out.

Again from the time.

 

[mfb5053]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

Inspiring! Sometimes you hear a speech from a coach and it makes you want to run through a brick wall. This one made me want to walk into traffic.

 

[Jerry]

Wasn't following the program back then so honest question, if Joe had retired in 99 or the very early 00s would Sandusky have been a strong candidate to replace him?

Years previous to 1999, Sandusky had been considered a strong candidate.

But by 1999: no. Emphatically no.

In fact, there was clearly tension between Sandusky and Joe by then. As I recall, Joe didn't even attend Sandusky's retirement party.

Make of it what you will. I have my own theories, but no way am I going down the scandal rabbit hole here. On the night before one of the biggest games in Franklin's tenure, that's the last thing we need.

 

[SR108]

Were I the AD, Coach Paterno would have been involuntarily retired after the 1999 along with his entire staff due to the end of season meltdown, and outright fired after the 2001 season. He had a losing record as a Big Ten coach vs OSU and UM because after 1996, he was no longer a great coach, and after 2001 arguably no longer a good one. He rallied a bit from 05-09, and then sunk back into mediocrity until the Sandusky scandal- which would have largely been avoided if PSU moved on from Paterno when they should have.

Agree with this. While there should be a lot of respect for Paterno as a coach who did things the right way, he hung on too long.

As to your OP, while I have questioned some of Franklin’ game time decisions, IMO he has done a good job building the program to where it is currently. He recruits well considering the situation he started with, and he has built a solid staff.

His record against top ranked teams is not good, but how many of those games did he have better or even equal talent and depth? I will be disappointed if we don’t win tomorrow, but, I don’t know that we can fault Franklin if we don’t win.

 

[Crusher1950]

We shouldn’t have to worry about another team beating this team or that team we need to care of everything ourselves

 

[bono47]

Bottom line as to the OP's initial point, with the amount of money Franklin is being paid, and with the resources he has been given and the legacy he has inherited, the goal is to be on par with OSU and Michigan. Not necessarily beating them all the time but certainly splitting games with them year to year. Penn State is a blueblood and sooner or later needs to have years where it is right there. Otherwise, you stop moving forward and the reality is that PSU isn't a big boy.

Now maybe that is unrealistic given the nature of college football today, but that is how most feel. Look at ND, Texas, USC....none of them are consistently elite. Even Michigan for all its hype has done nothing nationally besides 1997.

Perhaps we are spoiled as a fanbase. Yet, the fact remains if PSU loses tomorrow, it will be deflating on a number of levels.

 

[bdgan]

Why did Joe have a losing record vs OSU and UM? What was his excuse?

Paterno was 8-14 vs OSU (36%)
Franklin is 1-8 vs OSU (11%)

Franklin would have to win 4 in a row to catch up to Joe's record which was admittedly poor.

 

[Wallace Breen]

This is the post I disagree with...for reasons stated in another thread.

I think a lot of fans are making this game into an all-or-nothing proposition, and that's a mistake.

The hard fact is we're an underdog in Columbus. Yes, it's a winnable game for sure. But various things have to go right.

My concern is that if we lose, a lot of people will bring the house down on Franklin and effectively give up on the season. This would be ironic, given that we'd still have a real shot at a conference title and maybe even a playoff spot. But not if we go into one of our patented post-Buckeye funks.

Obviously, I'd be thrilled to go unbeaten, but I'm also realistic: a 1-loss season with a win over either top-5 Ohio State or Michigan would be a big step up and a hugely successful year...especially with the talent we're bringing back.

Great post, however, while beating OSU and losing to Michigan would be progress, one loss this year means no playoffs.

 

[Psubiomed]

Inspiring! Sometimes you hear a speech from a coach and it makes you want to run through a brick wall. This one made me want to walk into traffic.

Actually Franklins Achilles heel has been 2 things:

WHEN he loses a huge game BUT wins the other(Ohio St w Mich l 2016, Mich w Osu L 2017, Michigan W Osu L 2019), he ALSO totally blows a win that he turned into a loss(Pitt 2016, sparty 2017, sparty again 2018, Minny 2019, Illinois 2021).

He needs ONE win either tomorrow or against Michigan, AND not to completely crap the damn bed in the others, including the Iowa rematch should that happen

 

[Psubiomed]

Paterno was 8-14 vs OSU (36%)
Franklin is 1-8 vs OSU (11%)

Franklin would have to win 4 in a row to catch up to Joe's record which was admittedly poor.

Franklin is 1-6. First 2 sanction years don't count

 

[LandoComando]

Franklin is 1-6. First 2 sanction years don't count

Yes they do

 

[psu_andy]

Franklin is 1-6. First 2 sanction years don't count

I would add that Ohio State is a much better team than they were during Joe's years.

 

[bdgan]

I would add that Ohio State is a much better team than they were during Joe's years.

We could go round and round on this. I could say that Joe tried harder to recruit student athletes and that he and his staff were paid a fraction of what OSU was spending. On the other side Franklin could use covid as an excuse.

But I'm trying to stay away from that argument by simply pointing out the numbers. 90% of P5 football teams would love to have Franklin and his record. Can you imagine being a Nebraska fan these days? But suggesting that Franklin has been much better than Joe doesn't seem honest. During Joe's last 6 years PSU averaged 10 wins and won 2 BiG titles.

Bottom line is that Joe had a poor record against OSU and Franklin's record has been worse. It's time to turn that around.

 

[mcpat]

The Ohio State that Franklin has faced since 2014 isn’t the same Ohio State that Joe faced from 1993-2011.

2014-2023 Ohio State is 110-13 (.894) with its worst AP poll finish being 6th.

1993-2011 Ohio State was 188-51-1 (.787), finishing unranked 4x and outside the top 10 five other times.

From 1993-2011, Joe was 1-9 against Ohio St teams that finished in the top 6.

 

[AWS1022]

Bottom line as to the OP's initial point, with the amount of money Franklin is being paid, and with the resources he has been given and the legacy he has inherited, the goal is to be on par with OSU and Michigan. Not necessarily beating them all the time but certainly splitting games with them year to year. Penn State is a blueblood and sooner or later needs to have years where it is right there. Otherwise, you stop moving forward and the reality is that PSU isn't a big boy.

Now maybe that is unrealistic given the nature of college football today, but that is how most feel. Look at ND, Texas, USC....none of them are consistently elite. Even Michigan for all its hype has done nothing nationally besides 1997.

Perhaps we are spoiled as a fanbase. Yet, the fact remains if PSU loses tomorrow, it will be deflating on a number of levels.

Franklin isn’t even being paid in the top 10, so what should be the expectations based on the amount of money he’s being paid?

 

[AWS1022]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

Are you going to fire him if he doesn’t?

 

[LMTLION]

Were I the AD, Coach Paterno would have been involuntarily retired after the 1999 along with his entire staff due to the end of season meltdown, and outright fired after the 2001 season. He had a losing record as a Big Ten coach vs OSU and UM because after 1996, he was no longer a great coach, and after 2001 arguably no longer a good one. He rallied a bit from 05-09, and then sunk back into mediocrity until the Sandusky scandal- which would have largely been avoided if PSU moved on from Paterno when they should have.

The late 90s in my opinion was even worse than the dark ages that followed because the amount of talent on those rosters was staggering. I believe there was one, if not two national championship caliber teams between 96 and 99.