Ok Coach 4-14, now is the time…

[mcpat]

Then what? In the 90s PSU was bigger than OSU. Especially in our market.

Our top players were coming from Ohio to play at Psu.

99 we were ranked number 1 much of the season and had a top rated class.

The class was garbage. We had losing seasons. If Joe steps aside, we can get a top coach and maintain success.

Instead we moved lower and lower. Playing a 1970s offensive system and scuttling talent.

If we moved on we could have salvaged our position.

2000-2004 was bad; no doubt about it.

But 2005-2009 saw three 11 win seasons in five years and Joe had an 8-1 team in 2011 when he was fired. Things were back on track after 2004.

 

[voltz99]

Yeah, but from 2014 through 2020, Michigan wasn't a great program, so we should've beaten them several times during those seasons.

It's very frustrating with OSU because, despite OSU having all around better talent and hardly losing any regular season games, PSU lost so many close games to them, including the 2017 game when PSU arguably was a better team and outplayed them for 3 1/2 quarters on the road.

No. Michigan out recruited us. Osu out recruited psu 10 out of 10 and Michigan was about 6/7 out of 10.

 

[MacNit2.0]

We could go round and round on this. I could say that Joe tried harder to recruit student athletes and that he and his staff were paid a fraction of what OSU was spending. On the other side Franklin could use covid as an excuse.

But I'm trying to stay away from that argument by simply pointing out the numbers. 90% of P5 football teams would love to have Franklin and his record. Can you imagine being a Nebraska fan these days? But suggesting that Franklin has been much better than Joe doesn't seem honest. During Joe's last 6 years PSU averaged 10 wins and won 2 BiG titles.

Bottom line is that Joe had a poor record against OSU and Franklin's record has been worse. It's time to turn that around.

The majority of Joe’s O$U games came toward the end of a long career.

His record in big games is as good as anyone. Much better than O$U’s record in big games…light years better than CJF’s.

 

[JeannieNeedsAShooter]

Paterno was 8-14 vs OSU (36%)
Franklin is 1-8 vs OSU (11%)

Franklin would have to win 4 in a row to catch up to Joe's record which was admittedly poor.

There was absolutely a big ten ref bias against Joe and PSU, hence the instituting of replay in the big ten. Also, give Joe some credit for Rip’s 3-0 record against Woody as the number 1 assistant. 11-14 is very competitive especially considering Success with Honor.

 

[mcpat]

The majority of Joe’s O$U games came toward the end of a long career.

His record in big games is as good as anyone. Much better than O$U’s record in big games…light years better than CJF’s.

Joe and James both started their PSU coaching careers 1-9 against top 5 teams. I’m not knocking them; most teams lose to
top 5 teams. Just pointing out that CJF isn’t light years behind Joe in that department.

Penn State Football: a look back at the Nittany Lions’ struggles against top 5 opponents over the years

After the loss at Michigan, we took a look back at Penn State Football's (mostly) unsuccessful history against top five competition.

victorybellrings.com

 

[Ian]

Zero fans wanted to hire Kirby Smart before he want a championship. He also has three times the recruiting budget as PSU.

Does Kirby Smart fit the success with honor bs when he has players dying on their way home from strip clubs with staffers?

Interesting to look back at the 2015 Gator Bowl when PSU faced Georgia. Somewhat of a minor game that day but think of what’s happened since that game and the path the two programs have been on since. It’s time for PSU to elevate….

 

[sdwcpa]

I find it somewhat disingenuous to lump his osu and michigan records together as if they're the same struggle.

He's 3-6 against Michigan with two of those losses being with the heavily sanctioned 14/15 teams. Not great but not disastrous. He's 3-4 with full scholarships.

The real problem is 1-8 vs OSU, but no one in the conference has beaten them with even semi regularity until Michigan started stealing signals. Prior to the last two seasons Michigan had beaten them three times in the previous two decades...

However the 3 wins against Michigan came against horrible Michigan teams. He has yet to beat a good Michigan team and has beaten a good OSU team once.

 

[lazydave841]

However the 3 wins against Michigan came against horrible Michigan teams. He has yet to beat a good Michigan team and has beaten a good OSU team once.

8-5 and 9-4 are horrible?

You have to realize that when we beat them, it's puts an L in that loss column.

And by no means am I saying these were great Michigan teams, but their record looks better with an extra win and one less loss.

 

[LandoComando]

8-5 and 9-4 are horrible?

You have to realize that when we beat them, it's puts an L in that loss column.

And by no means am I saying these were great Michigan teams, but their record looks better with an extra win and one less loss.

8-4 teams are not good teams
9-3 at Michigan and Penn State isn't a good year. At best it's decent. Horrible.is an oversell until you analyze and see if they beat anyone decent.

 

[AWS1022]

Interesting to look back at the 2015 Gator Bowl when PSU faced Georgia. Somewhat of a minor game that day but think of what’s happened since that game and the path the two programs have been on since. It’s time for PSU to elevate….

So you’re expecting PSU to elevate to a level it’s never been…seems fair.

 

[sdwcpa]

8-4 teams are not good teams
9-3 at Michigan and Penn State isn't a good year. At best it's decent. Horrible.is an oversell until you analyze and see if they beat anyone decent.

Fair enough.

Horrible was an overstatement. My point was that he has yet to beat a Michigan team that was even close to a B10 East champion contender.

 

[LandoComando]

So you’re expecting PSU to elevate to a level it’s never been…seems fair.

Did Georgia?

 

[LandoComando]

Fair enough.

Horrible was an overstatement. My point was that he has yet to beat a Michigan team that was even close to a B10 East champion contender.

That's very true. The 2017 was team was terrible looking at their results.

 

[voltz99]

Then what? In the 90s PSU was bigger than OSU. Especially in our market.

Our top players were coming from Ohio to play at Psu.

99 we were ranked number 1 much of the season and had a top rated class.

The class was garbage. We had losing seasons. If Joe steps aside, we can get a top coach and maintain success.

Instead we moved lower and lower. Playing a 1970s offensive system and scuttling talent.

If we moved on we could have salvaged our position.

We didn't. We are not bigger than psu. Now what? Name any coach with a winning record vs OSU and um who wants this job!

Ps. Dabo and Saban are not coming here.

 

[voltz99]

I would add that Ohio State is a much better team than they were during Joe's years.

Osu took it to the next level during sanctions.


Joe should have retired by 2000 or fired.

 

[voltz99]

Paterno was 8-14 vs OSU (36%)
Franklin is 1-8 vs OSU (11%)

Franklin would have to win 4 in a row to catch up to Joe's record which was admittedly poor.

If one of the GREATEST coaches is 8-14 do you expect anyone else to do better?

Ps. Osu is much better now and Pennsylvania is turning out less talent.

 

[bdgan]

If one of the GREATEST coaches is 8-14 do you expect anyone else to do better?

At this point 36% would be great compared to 11%. 36% isn't great but 11% is embarrassing.

 

[LandoComando]

If one of the GREATEST coaches is 8-14 do you expect anyone else to do better?

Ps. Osu is much better now and Pennsylvania is turning out less talent.

One of the greatest coaches of all time who shouldn't have been there as long as he was impacting that record.

 

[sdwcpa]

I am trying to think of a game where BOTH coaches were under more pressure to win. Franklin for the reasons discussed here but I think that Day is under even more pressure. The OSU fanbase is mad enough that the B10 throne was lost to Michigan in the past 2 years but to be passed by PSU as well will make his seat somewhat hotter.

 

[lazydave841]

8-4 teams are not good teams
9-3 at Michigan and Penn State isn't a good year. At best it's decent. Horrible.is an oversell until you analyze and see if they beat anyone decent.

Goal is to beat Michigan regardless of the quality of their team. Just like everyone else.

The problem with this type of valuing is that unless you dominate like OSU has for the past decade, all of your wins get diminished.

It's like Sparty. They always get credit for "beating a good team" when they beat us. Problem is, we get none for beating them. They are good once every 5 years on average and the only reason they are good is because they beat everyone / lost one game.

It's just an exercise in futility.

 

[lazydave841]

I am trying to think of a game where BOTH coaches were under more pressure to win. Franklin for the reasons discussed here but I think that Day is under even more pressure. The OSU fanbase is mad enough that the B10 throne was lost to Michigan in the past 2 years but to be passed by PSU as well will make his seat somewhat hotter.

If his seat is hot, nobody save for Kirby Smart is safe today.

I hope after we beat them today, Michigan does at the end of the year and they do fire him.

The odds of finding another person to replicate their success AND do better over the past 10 years is nearly impossible.

 

[LandoComando]

Goal is to beat Michigan regardless of the quality of their team. Just like everyone else.

The problem with this type of valuing is that unless you dominate like OSU has for the past decade, all of your wins get diminished.

It's like Sparty. They always get credit for "beating a good team" when they beat us. Problem is, we get none for beating them. They are good once every 5 years on average and the only reason they are good is because they beat everyone / lost one game.

It's just an exercise in futility.

Fair-ish. I disagree we were a good team every year though.

 

[fastlax16]

Fair enough.

Horrible was an overstatement. My point was that he has yet to beat a Michigan team that was even close to a B10 East champion contender.

How often does the Big ten east champion lose in a season on average?

 

[84Lion]

Time to change the narrative, time for you, your staff, and the team to finally step UP for a change and accomplish one of the 3 success metrics you have failed at so often:

Beat Ohio State

You no longer have the excuse of a choking, inaccurate turnover machine at QB. Everything is in place to WIN. It’s long past time, frankly. This is the year that the 3 success metrics must be met. There are only 3, only THESE 3, and PSU has been abysmal in achieving any of them:

1. Beat Ohio State
2. Beat Michigan
3. Win the conference championship.

All else is nonsense, a means to an end, or a “beauty contest (I.e. “the playoffs”). The time is now to change both the narrative and the trajectory of PSU football. Get to it!

To the original post - I think PSU will lose to both OSU and UM (and by definition therefore not win the CC), and once again, JF will be praised to the heavens for coming in third in the B1G after losing to those two "juggernauts" which will once again play for the B1G East title at the end of the season.

We've seen this movie before, we all just want a different ending!

 

[lazydave841]

Fair-ish. I disagree we were a good team every year though.

Everybody has a different definition. I can assure you that every team that beats us thinks it's a good win. They don't pay attention to our record. Try talking to any UK fan. They adore their bowl game win over us from the '18 season. We mostly forget it happened until somebody reminds us.

Of course, that was one of UKs 3 best teams ever.

For us, that was maybe the 5th best JF led PSU.

 

[LandoComando]

Everybody has a different definition. I can assure you that every team that beats us thinks it's a good win. They don't pay attention to our record. Try talking to any UK fan. They adore their bowl game win over us from the '18 season. We mostly forget it happened until somebody reminds us.

Of course, that was one of UKs 3 best teams ever.

For us, that was maybe the 5th best JF led PSU.

I get your point doesn't alter it's a sad state of your program to take pride in that.

Regardless, with Ohio State banged up we have an amazing opportunity today that we need to take advantage of. Must find a way to win. No excuses. Not officiating, not weather, this a game big time coaches win.

 

[lazydave841]

I get your point doesn't alter it's a sad state of your program to take pride in that.

Regardless, with Ohio State banged up we have an amazing opportunity today that we need to take advantage of. Must find a way to win. No excuses. Not officiating, not weather, this a game big time coaches win.

1 point or 21 points. Need. To. Win. Today.