that you would like to see? Conversely, what plays that he has run do you really like? For me, I would like to see more screen passes to RB's out of the backfield, and like the quick WR slant patterns that are 5-10 yards downfield.
OK, let's talk some Penn State football! What plays do you think have been missing from CJF playbook
- Thread starter Jerademan74
- Start date
Can't run either of those with our OL from last year or WRs without "quickness". Our WRs have good "speed" but lack football quickness for slants. That may improve this year.
Screen pass's with the OL from last year? Might see some later in the season IFFFFFF the OL is 25% better. Hope so.
Screen pass's with the OL from last year? Might see some later in the season IFFFFFF the OL is 25% better. Hope so.
cross buck to tailback after a fake to the fullback.
slot option with billy campbell after fake to charlie pitman
anything run by john capellati
anything run by lydell mitcchell
anything run by kijana carter
anything run curt curt warner
just to name a few because i've missed some fine plays and running backs.
oh yea! Franco harris
slot option with billy campbell after fake to charlie pitman
anything run by john capellati
anything run by lydell mitcchell
anything run by kijana carter
anything run curt curt warner
just to name a few because i've missed some fine plays and running backs.
oh yea! Franco harris
A run for more than0.8 yards, up the middle.
I agree with the original post....a nice RB screen.
Also.......I'd love to see dual 6-8 yard WR crossing routes(the NE Patriots do this so well)
Also....put the TE in motion.....line him up as a wing back out of motion, then send him on a wheel route.
I agree with the original post....a nice RB screen.
Also.......I'd love to see dual 6-8 yard WR crossing routes(the NE Patriots do this so well)
Also....put the TE in motion.....line him up as a wing back out of motion, then send him on a wheel route.
I'd love to see some more screen passes, but the ones we did run last year were poorly executed, whether the DL got in too quickly, or something else, I'm not sure.
Just about anything in the playbook that relies on the Offensive Line pass blocking for more than 2 seconds was removed from the playbook, or minimized in the play calling.
That was a real handicap last year - IMHO.....but had to be done to keep the QB from ending up in traction.
I expect (hope) that we will see more downfield throws this year (not just the occasional go route down the sidelines). I think that one of the biggest POTENTIAL competitive advantages PSU's offense has is a QB who can make those types of throws (probably aren't 10 college QBs in the country with the skills to make those throws consistently......the deep out, inside skinny post, sluggo, deep dig etc routes like Hackenberg can).
If the Offensive Line can develop to the point that the coaches can call those plays without having to cross their fingers and say 5 Hail Mary's, it will make all the other stuff in the passing game.....the flanker screens, inside slants, etc (the stuff they had to rely on almost exclusively last year....also, FWIW, one would have to go back and review all the game films, but I'd wager we ran twice as many TB screens last year than we had seen in any of the previous 5 years - they just rarely worked) more effective.
It also can force the defense to back both safeties out of the box....and increase the opportunities for the run game to succeed by only having to account for 7.
More use of the tight ends in the passing game. Definitely need more slants and deeper crossing routes when teams stack the line. Wheel routes seem to work well as the D loses the RB a lot. Obviously much of this needs some O line protection. We will have to see how that goes this year.
Just for fun- I'd love to see Franklin gets the tapes of FSU from the 90s when Bowden was at his peak. They had some ingenious trick plays drawn up that worked a lot. I'd love to see him incorporate those just to keep teams off balance. PSU has been too vanilla over the years. Need to shake it up.
Power left and power right with a pulling guard. Quick pitches to the weak side, A screen pass more than once a decade.
Two things, the short curl to the TE (was bread and butter between McGloin and Carter) and the straight deep passes to a truly speedy WR.
It seems Franklin is obsessed with moving all the top speed to the DB position. I just remember how Justin King opened things up his freshman year by running straight past most everyone's DBs. Did any defense respect us deep? It just shortens the field up to the opponents advantage. I would move Apke back to a WR for this purpose. Maybe Thompson or Polk can fill this role.
It seems Franklin is obsessed with moving all the top speed to the DB position. I just remember how Justin King opened things up his freshman year by running straight past most everyone's DBs. Did any defense respect us deep? It just shortens the field up to the opponents advantage. I would move Apke back to a WR for this purpose. Maybe Thompson or Polk can fill this role.
Good post. The key certainly does rely on the OL improving to the point where Hack has more time. The problem last year was that he was rushed on just about EVERY play, and even when he did have time, he tended to rush his throws. It truly is a shame that we have such a great QB, but no protection. Can you imagine what he could do with adequzte protection? That is why the NFL coaches are drooling over his abilities!
Can't run either of those with our OL from last year or WRs without "quickness". Our WRs have good "speed" but lack football quickness for slants. That may improve this year.
Screen pass's with the OL from last year? Might see some later in the season IFFFFFF the OL is 25% better. Hope so.
Screen pass's with the OL from last year? Might see some later in the season IFFFFFF the OL is 25% better. Hope so.
Yea well your wrong on that. Prefect play for OL as they don't really need to block. The pass goes to the TB. Which we should be good at. The wr to most of the blocking. Too hard to draw it up for you here. I might later
Yep. That is why the 2015 offense could POTENTIALLY be much improved. We really won't know about the offensive line until we get a couple games in, but there could definitely be two schools of thought:
1 - The LT position could be a nightmare, and the interior line (despite having gained a lot of experience last year) just simply won't have the necessary talent.....and it becomes a replay of last year's nightmare
or
2 - With the added year of experience and maturity, the interior of the line becomes at least "competent", and one of the young boys at LT (Palmer, Wright, maybe Sorrell) can at least hold their own.......in which case the skill people (especially Hackenberg) will be able to show their stuff.
Going to be a very interesting September - IMHO.
Yes...and no...IMHO
I think your basic premise is correct, but the properly executed screen DOES rely of a level of cohesion and timing among the 5 guys up front - that we just didn't have last year (three of the five guys had never taken a snap as a college OLineman prior to 2014).
I recall a particular middle TB screen to Belton in the Pinstripe Bowl as the one example of a "typical" screen from last year. The confusion and discombobulation in the middle of the line looked like 5 monkeys trying to hump a football....and Hack could only throw the ball into the ground in front of Belton.
We had a slew of plays like that on screens last year.
Those are the types of plays were the huge learning curve that the new guys experienced last year should pay dividends in 2015....we hope.
I ll have to draw it up for you. The OL doesn't really have to block. The d will run themselves out of the play!!!
Any play that doesn't require an OL to complete it successfully. Sort of like a 4 guard offense in basketball. Unfortunately I don't think football allows that sort of thing.
How about the quick-kick? Hackeberg might be able to get a few of those away despite the offensive line.
Any plays that involve effective OL blocking are on the backburner for the immediate time frame.
My heart says there could be significant improvement on the offensive line this year (not "greatness", but significant improvement).......my head says we ought to wait-and-see before expecting much of a change.
September will be interesting, either way.
:-(
My heart says there could be significant improvement on the offensive line this year (not "greatness", but significant improvement).......my head says we ought to wait-and-see before expecting much of a change.
September will be interesting, either way.
Will we be better than these guys?
The ol' statue of liberty play
The ol' Packer sweep
The fullback dive
65 Toss Power Trap - That thing just might bust wide open.
The Triple Option
The Double Wing Power Play
If I could only have the offense for just one game. We'd keep matriculating the ball down the field boys. the defense would be running around out there like it was a Chinese fire drill.
Any post that uses the word "matriculating", and evokes memories of Hank Stram, gets a "like" from me, regardless of content.
1. Jet sweep. With Thompkins you CAN run this
2. Waggle boot with over/under by Breneman and Godwin/Hamilton
3. Deep crossing route with slot and WR to short side, the team that did this best was Arizona State with Jake the Snake.
4. Pitch sweep with pulling guard, not hand off but a pitch.
5. Read option with called keep by Hack, instead of the give. Make the defense honor it. Stanford ran it with Luck, and Hack isn't Luck, but he isn't slow either.
6. Double screen from QB under center with fake to one side and throw to the other.
7. True draw play with the number two running back, similar to what we ran against Wisky a few years ago for that huge gain with ZZ.
8. TE motion from wing position on counter lead with Lynch.
9. Full house backfield on third and short with unbalanced line, off tackle with FB/HB lead.
10. 3 step drop with delay draw to Lynch instead of WR screen or quick slant...same action, but with draw play.
You can run every single one of these plays with an AVERAGE offensive line, which is what this unit needs to become THIS year.
2. Waggle boot with over/under by Breneman and Godwin/Hamilton
3. Deep crossing route with slot and WR to short side, the team that did this best was Arizona State with Jake the Snake.
4. Pitch sweep with pulling guard, not hand off but a pitch.
5. Read option with called keep by Hack, instead of the give. Make the defense honor it. Stanford ran it with Luck, and Hack isn't Luck, but he isn't slow either.
6. Double screen from QB under center with fake to one side and throw to the other.
7. True draw play with the number two running back, similar to what we ran against Wisky a few years ago for that huge gain with ZZ.
8. TE motion from wing position on counter lead with Lynch.
9. Full house backfield on third and short with unbalanced line, off tackle with FB/HB lead.
10. 3 step drop with delay draw to Lynch instead of WR screen or quick slant...same action, but with draw play.
You can run every single one of these plays with an AVERAGE offensive line, which is what this unit needs to become THIS year.
Need more pass plays over the middle, like what BOB did when he was here. I get why last year there weren't many but the middle opens up everything else imho. If you have to defend the middle, it even helps on running plays like sweeps since your safeties can't cheat towards the sidelines.
Pull a guard, and then the "pitch toss". Sure it isn't Vanderbilt Sexy (is there such a thing?) but the play works, especially to the short side of the field with proper blocking from the WR's, of course.
After further review, I see that 21 Guns (#4) feels similarly.
After further review, I see that 21 Guns (#4) feels similarly.
21Guns: I like your creativity. As you stated though, we need just an AVERAGE OL to run these plays, and right now, we are sub par. Let's hope this improves over the course of the season.
This is very true, unfortunately...It's unclear to me just exactly what they CAN run, actually. Last year, there were about 5 plays, literally, that they could run. I don't believe they will be THAT bad this year, but I didn't see it in the spring. That looked like a very similar line to me, but our second unit front seven is damn good, on the other hand.
At some point, if the four kids who are returning cannot get this done, I really don't know what the hell to run. Just being honest. I guess you do what we did last year: Run 15 WR screens and 10 quick slant ins per game, run Lynch and Scott 5 to 10 times into the line just to keep Hack upright, punt the ball, and pray, lol.
If you truly can't handle the guys up front......you do have some options. Unfortunately, the options involve essentially putting in an entire offensive system to deal with that problem. If you do that, and two years later you CAN handle guys up front, you are stuck having to completely retool that system (including the types of guys you recruit).
Bottom line, you don't (normally) want to retool to a sub-optimal system unless you are reasonably sure you are going to be stuck in the "can't handle the guys up front" mode for a long time.
A program like Northwestern ....under Fitz, and the guy who was there before Fitz, essentially did make that concession. Look at their offenses over that time for an example of "what you can do" without being able to handle the guys up front.......
Passing game which is primarily: keep your (hopefully somewhat mobile) QB in the shotgun, spread the field horizontally with four or five guys, and throw a ton of underneath and screen passes.
The running game becomes .....force the extra guys out of the box (with 4 wide) and then run read option stuff using the QB as the "eleventh man".
You CAN run a fairly effective offense like that without having to be able to line up and block the defensive front 7 very well.
It would have been a mistake (IMHO) for PSU to try to convert to a system like that.....and then have to try and "reconvert" to another (more traditional) system when the offensive line became a "non-dumpster fire".
They did - IMHO - try to incorporate SOME of that......as the season wore on, and Godwin and Blacknaal become a little more comfortable, they used more spread stuff with the quick slants and screens to the wide guys. When they did, they usually moved the ball somewhat better.....but really struggled in the red zone (which is a downside to that offense).....The Pinstripe Bowl was a classic example.
I hope/expect the ability to run a somewhat more traditional offense in 2015.....and certainly by 2017.
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OK, this is the NORMAL blocking for a "quick slant. Our OL could NOT do this without blocking each other or getting pancaked.
The center checks for defenders coming through the A-gaps, then assists the right guard. Protectors on the right side of the line block the gaps to their right. As shown, there's a big hole in the protection in the B-gap between the left guard and tackle. The halfback might be asked to read this gap and block before releasing into the pattern. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? Last year's OL???
I'm hoping for some improvement this year given a year of experience, age, and strength. We WiLL be better.
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