OT: 3 PSU Frat brothers get jail time in hazing death at PSU.

[bwifan]

Three former fraternity brothers were sentenced to jail Tuesday for their roles in the 2017 hazing death of 19-year-old Tim Piazza at Pennsylvania State University.

Joshua Kurczewski was sentenced to three to six months incarceration by Common Pleas Court Judge Brian K. Marshall in Centre County. Luke Visser got two to six month at the Centre County Correctional Facility. Michael Bonatucci got one to six months. All three are scheduled to begin their sentences May 17.

Joseph Sala, who also was a member of the Beta Theta Pi fraternity, was sentenced to three months’ house arrest.

Piazza was a sophomore engineering student from New Jersey when he died Feb. 4, 2017, from injuries he sustained after a night of heavy drinking and hazing at a Beta Theta Pi party.

Kurczewski, 20, from Erie, pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit hazing, one count of hazing and one count of furnishing liquor to a minor.

Visser, 21 from Encinitas, Calif., pleaded guilty to six counts of hazing and one count of conspiracy to commit hazing.

Sala, 20, also from Erie, pleaded guilty to three counts of hazing and one count of conspiracy to commit hazing.


“Today was a significant step forward in the long road to justice for the parents of Tim Piazza with the sentencing of three individuals to prison for admitted conspiracy to haze their son," said Thomas R. Kline, attorney for Jim and Evelyn Piazza, in a statement.

Kline added, “Jim and Evelyn, in the courtroom for the sentencing, remain committed to the cause of eradicating hazing and the beneficial deterrent effect of the enforcement of anti-hazing laws throughout the country.”

* Note I copied the whole story in for those who didn't want to give a click...
https://www.philly.com/news/tim-piazza-hazing-penn-state-jail-20190403.html

 

[LionDeNittany]

Absurd.

 

[MJG-90]

Absurd.

Jail time? That's stupid. All should have gotten house arrest instead. And community service -- going to schools talking to fraternities about the dangers of hazing and alcohol abuse.

I don't like the use of the word "minor" when the "minor" in question is an adult. He wasn't a minor, he was an adult not yet of legal drinking age.

 

[NittanySteel]

They dicked around trying to cover their own asses instead of taking one of the many opportunities to help the kid. No issue with the jail time. Sends a good message.

 

[BobPSU92]

I hope the judge took the opportunity to remind everyone that Penn State has a culture problem. Hopefully barren will as well.

I hate us.

 

[MJG-90]

They dicked around trying to cover their own asses instead of taking one of the many opportunities to help the kid. No issue with the jail time. Sends a good message.

I think jails should be reserved for people who are dangers to society. With today's technology, house arrest should be more widely used. And this case is a perfect example. No reason to lock these kids up in a cell. Make them work and pay the monthly monitoring fees.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I’m fine with the jail time. I’d also be fine with house arrest.
Overall, the whole situation is a shame and an outcome of poor decision making, though understandable given the ages, by all involved.

 

[denniskembala]

Will this finally go away? Tim was a willing participant. EOS.

 

[RU31trap]

A sad situation for all parties. I completely disagree with actual Jail time.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Jail time? That's stupid. All should have gotten house arrest instead. And community service -- going to schools talking to fraternities about the dangers of hazing and alcohol abuse.

I don't like the use of the word "minor" when the "minor" in question is an adult. He wasn't a minor, he was an adult not yet of legal drinking age.

Agrees re the use of minor. Identify him as underage, not as a minor.

Of course, reporters and reporting aren’t what they used to be.

 

[NJLions]

I am happy about the jail time. I only wish it would have been longer.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Jail time? That's stupid. All should have gotten house arrest instead. And community service -- going to schools talking to fraternities about the dangers of hazing and alcohol abuse.

I don't like the use of the word "minor" when the "minor" in question is an adult. He wasn't a minor, he was an adult not yet of legal drinking age.

These kids had their lives ruined by some stupid decisions. Jail time is absurd.
House arrest would be a fair compromise... but the message has already been made.

LdN

 

[Obliviax]

I think jails should be reserved for people who are dangers to society. With today's technology, house arrest should be more widely used. And this case is a perfect example. No reason to lock these kids up in a cell. Make them work and pay the monthly monitoring fees.

I mostly agree. I hate the damage done to these kid's lives for something that wasn't meant to be a crime. On the other hand, they were made examples as deterrent to other kids/frats. In the bigger picture, these kids may have been sacrificed for the greater, boarder good.

there is also the balance of justice, punishment and rehabilitation courts grapple with. One would hope a judge would take into consideration humility and remorse. Sadly, I think this judge had an eye on PR in such a news worthy case. Can't look soft on crime!

 

[Lyons212]

In this case a small sentence of jail time is fine. It sends a message that hazing is not acceptable even when there are willing participants. There is no comparison between house arrest and prison. In prison their life is completely regulated, they are told what to do and when. It confirms the message that you really screwed up. With house arrest, the biggest inconvenience is you can't leave your property/house, other than that, good food, comforts of home, etc.

I had a neighbor get house arrest for a year. She embezzled $200k from her employer, this was 25 years ago. She paid the money back, however, it always struck me as wrong when you would see her sitting on her front porch on a nice day drinking a lemonade. Not much of a punishment. A better punishment would have been a 6 week jail sentence starting the Monday before Thanksgiving running though January 2nd. The grand kids would have had an experience seeing granny in jail.

 

[LionDeNittany]

In this case a small sentence of jail time is fine. It sends a message that hazing is not acceptable even when there are willing participants. There is no comparison between house arrest and prison. In prison their life is completely regulated, they are told what to do and when. It confirms the message that you really screwed up. With house arrest, the biggest inconvenience is you can't leave your property/house, other than that, good food, comforts of home, etc.

I had a neighbor get house arrest for a year. She embezzled $200k from her employer, this was 25 years ago. She paid the money back, however, it always struck me as wrong when you would see her sitting on her front porch on a nice day drinking a lemonade. Not much of a punishment. A better punishment would have been a 6 week jail sentence starting the Monday before Thanksgiving running though January 2nd. The grand kids would have had an experience seeing granny in jail.

What message is this sending to these young men that hasn't already been made?

LdN

 

[MJG-90]

In this case a small sentence of jail time is fine. It sends a message that hazing is not acceptable even when there are willing participants. There is no comparison between house arrest and prison. In prison their life is completely regulated, they are told what to do and when. It confirms the message that you really screwed up. With house arrest, the biggest inconvenience is you can't leave your property/house, other than that, good food, comforts of home, etc.

I had a neighbor get house arrest for a year. She embezzled $200k from her employer, this was 25 years ago. She paid the money back, however, it always struck me as wrong when you would see her sitting on her front porch on a nice day drinking a lemonade. Not much of a punishment. A better punishment would have been a 6 week jail sentence starting the Monday before Thanksgiving running though January 2nd. The grand kids would have had an experience seeing granny in jail.

I'm not looking at it as much from the punishment side as the cost / benefit side. It costs a lot to incarcerate non violent criminals (and violent ones too). I think house arrest is better because the criminal can get a job, go to work, and pay the court costs and monitoring costs. Much less of a burden on the taxpayer.

Should be a punishment for first time, non violent offenders. I know if I had to stay home all the time except to go to work, I'd get the message.

 

[Pardlion]

It sends a message that hazing is not acceptable even when there are willing participants..

Yes it is, and this wasn't hazing under any real definition of the term.

 

[Lion84]

I mostly agree. I hate the damage done to these kid's lives for something that wasn't meant to be a crime. On the other hand, they were made examples as deterrent to other kids/frats. In the bigger picture, these kids may have been sacrificed for the greater, boarder good.

there is also the balance of justice, punishment and rehabilitation courts grapple with. One would hope a judge would take into consideration humility and remorse. Sadly, I think this judge had an eye on PR in such a news worthy case. Can't look soft on crime!

Can’t look soft on crime unless you are in Chicago.

 

[Obliviax]

Can’t look soft on crime unless you are in Chicago.

yeah..amazing, really. Of course, SC is different from Chicago so they don't need to be or even should be the same. However, one would expect a little conformity in these united states. Also, the Chicago situation is still playing out. Clearly, somebody powerful stepped in. We'll see where that goes.

 

[BiochemPSU]

No win situation. A young man is dead and people plead guilty to crimes associated with his death. That equals jail time; no judge is just going to look the other way and give everyone a free pass under those circumstances.

I don't agree that their punishments were meant to send a message to others. If you wanted to send a message, all of these universities (who charge insane amounts of cash for an academic experience/degree) would immediately get rid of everything that wasn't an immediate extension of academics: sports, frats, sororities, social/special interest clubs, big fancy buildings and stadiums, etc.

But, a purely academic experience isn't what a majority of college kids want to pay for. This same majority also want the allure of a "safe" four or five year college "adulthood," which means no consequences for their sexual, substance abuse, or other poor choices with a six figure paycheck and a trophy husband/wife waiting for them when they graduate. That's just not reality when you make really bad "adulthood" decisions.

 

[Statewise]

Agrees re the use of minor. Identify him as underage, not as a minor.

Of course, reporters and reporting aren’t what they used to be.

That is not a reporter issue. That is the title of the law. Section 6310.1 prohibits "Selling or furnishing liquor or malt or brewed beverages to minors," which is defined as "intentionally and knowingly sells or intentionally and knowingly furnishes, or purchases with the intent to sell or furnish, any liquor or malt or brewed beverages to a person who is less than 21 years of age."

 

[Cletus11]

In this case a small sentence of jail time is fine. It sends a message that hazing is not acceptable even when there are willing participants. There is no comparison between house arrest and prison. In prison their life is completely regulated, they are told what to do and when. It confirms the message that you really screwed up. With house arrest, the biggest inconvenience is you can't leave your property/house, other than that, good food, comforts of home, etc.

I had a neighbor get house arrest for a year. She embezzled $200k from her employer, this was 25 years ago. She paid the money back, however, it always struck me as wrong when you would see her sitting on her front porch on a nice day drinking a lemonade. Not much of a punishment. A better punishment would have been a 6 week jail sentence starting the Monday before Thanksgiving running though January 2nd. The grand kids would have had an experience seeing granny in jail.

so i am not willing to pay my hard earned money to have her sit in jail and me pay for her to eat meals, watch TV, etc...why would i want to do that. Fine her $100,000 plus the cost of the 6 months of house arrest. She'll learn her lesson when she has to work for 5 years to pay off the fine and no be able to go on vacation and do other things, etc....i agree with those who said non-violent criminals who are first time offenders should be more about paying fine money and house arrest versus jail.

 

[Obliviax]

so i am not willing to pay my hard earned money to have her sit in jail and me pay for her to eat meals, watch TV, etc...why would i want to do that. Fine her $100,000 plus the cost of the 6 months of house arrest. She'll learn her lesson when she has to work for 5 years to pay off the fine and no be able to go on vacation and do other things, etc....i agree with those who said non-violent criminals who are first time offenders should be more about paying fine money and house arrest versus jail.

so, just to play devil's advocate here...if you are the son or daughter of bill gates and are fined $100k you can pay this months fine and give another $200k for the next two (just to avoid the red tape)?

 

[Pardlion]

That is not a reporter issue. That is the title of the law. Section 6310.1 prohibits "Selling or furnishing liquor or malt or brewed beverages to minors," which is defined as "intentionally and knowingly sells or intentionally and knowingly furnishes, or purchases with the intent to sell or furnish, any liquor or malt or brewed beverages to a person who is less than 21 years of age."

That makes no sense. You sure they weren't referring to "miners"?

 

[sunshinedynomite]

How can a 20 year old that isn’t allowed legally to buy alcohol be charged for furnishing alcohol to a minor

 

[Cletus11]

so, just to play devil's advocate here...if you are the son or daughter of bill gates and are fined $100k you can pay this months fine and give another $200k for the next two (just to avoid the red tape)?

Fine would be somewhat based on net worth and earnings. But yes, house arrest for non violent first time offenders in most cases should be the norm.

 

[Obliviax]

Fine would be somewhat based on net worth and earnings. But yes, house arrest for non violent first time offenders in most cases should be the norm.

OK..I honestly don't know how big a problem "house arrest" versus the big house for a month is. I think the bigger problem is having a felony on your record moving forward. And, to be clear, not even sure if it was a misdemeanor of felony these guys got hit with.

 

[Cletus11]

so, just to play devil's advocate here...if you are the son or daughter of bill gates and are fined $100k you can pay this months fine and give another $200k for the next two (just to avoid the red tape)?

And to play devils advocate to your post, Bill Gates would hire the best law firm in the country and they would have plea bargained it down to house arrest anyway.

 

[Obliviax]

How can a 20 year old that isn’t allowed legally to buy alcohol be charged for furnishing alcohol to a minor

Not sure but would guess if you had booze, no matter your age or how you got it, and gave it to a minor, you've committed a crime.

 

[Obliviax]

And to play devils advocate to your post, Bill Gates would hire the best law firm in the country and they would have plea bargained it down to house arrest anyway.

Ha! so true.

Point being that fines are only a problem for those who don't have money. When I was 20, a parking ticket was devastating. In LA, a few years ago, I got a $20 ticket for parking in a no parking zone during the day (OK at night) but parking was $40. I was money ahead with the fine. (wasn't tax deductible though).

Listen, I'd go do what Singapore does. A few lashes hurts the same no matter if you are Jeff Bezos or Bezos the Clown.

 

[Zenophile]

Listen, I'd go do what Singapore does. A few lashes hurts the same no matter if you are Jeff Bezos or Bezos the Clown.

Make it available PPV-style, and we've got ourselves a moneymaker.

 

[Obliviax]

Make it available PPV-style, and we've got ourselves a moneymaker.

We don't need another hero.

 

[BBrown]

Back to Threads/Forum

That is not a reporter issue. That is the title of the law. Section 6310.1 prohibits "Selling or furnishing liquor or malt or brewed beverages to minors," which is defined as "intentionally and knowingly sells or intentionally and knowingly furnishes, or purchases with the intent to sell or furnish, any liquor or malt or brewed beverages to a person who is less than 21 years of age."

I've seen "Under aged" used countless times in other newspaper articles, especially if they involve someone over 18 and under 21 involved in a DUI arrest.

 

[joeparules]

Not trying to make light of this situation, but PSU has proved you just don't want to be the "first one" in the media-outrage-flavor-of-the-month. What if Bernie Fine and Larry Nassar had come before Sandusky? What if LSU and FSU hazing deaths had come before PSU? I didn't even know five FSU brothers got jail time.

In these situations you definitely do NOT want to be a trend setter.

 

[Pardlion]

Not trying to make light of this situation, but PSU has proved you just don't want to be the "first one" in the media-outrage-flavor-of-the-month. What if Bernie Fine and Larry Nassar had come before Sandusky? What if LSU and FSU hazing deaths had come before PSU? I didn't even know five FSU brothers got jail time.

Don't sweat it. Even in a dead-last situation, PSU's BOT would find a way to royally screw the pooch.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

That is not a reporter issue. That is the title of the law. Section 6310.1 prohibits "Selling or furnishing liquor or malt or brewed beverages to minors," which is defined as "intentionally and knowingly sells or intentionally and knowingly furnishes, or purchases with the intent to sell or furnish, any liquor or malt or brewed beverages to a person who is less than 21 years of age."

Then I stand corrected. The poor word choice lies with the draftsman/woman of the statute.

 

[joeparules]

Don't sweat it. Even in a dead-last situation, PSU's BOT would find a way to royally screw the pooch.

TRUTH!!! My first thought was the OGBOTs would have learned something from MSU (and UNC and others) about how to handle the NCAA, but then I realized I was giving them too much credit.

And I guess Tallahassee and Baton Rouge don't have a Stacy Parks Miller in them!?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Three former fraternity brothers were sentenced to jail Tuesday for their roles in the 2017 hazing death of 19-year-old Tim Piazza at Pennsylvania State University.

Joshua Kurczewski was sentenced to three to six months incarceration by Common Pleas Court Judge Brian K. Marshall in Centre County. Luke Visser got two to six month at the Centre County Correctional Facility. Michael Bonatucci got one to six months. All three are scheduled to begin their sentences May 17.

Joseph Sala, who also was a member of the Beta Theta Pi fraternity, was sentenced to three months’ house arrest.

Piazza was a sophomore engineering student from New Jersey when he died Feb. 4, 2017, from injuries he sustained after a night of heavy drinking and hazing at a Beta Theta Pi party.

Kurczewski, 20, from Erie, pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit hazing, one count of hazing and one count of furnishing liquor to a minor.

Visser, 21 from Encinitas, Calif., pleaded guilty to six counts of hazing and one count of conspiracy to commit hazing.

Sala, 20, also from Erie, pleaded guilty to three counts of hazing and one count of conspiracy to commit hazing.


“Today was a significant step forward in the long road to justice for the parents of Tim Piazza with the sentencing of three individuals to prison for admitted conspiracy to haze their son," said Thomas R. Kline, attorney for Jim and Evelyn Piazza, in a statement.

Kline added, “Jim and Evelyn, in the courtroom for the sentencing, remain committed to the cause of eradicating hazing and the beneficial deterrent effect of the enforcement of anti-hazing laws throughout the country.”

* Note I copied the whole story in for those who didn't want to give a click...
https://www.philly.com/news/tim-piazza-hazing-penn-state-jail-20190403.html

What other 'steps on the long road to justice' are left for the Piazzas? Penn State?

 

[joeparules]

What other 'steps on the long road to justice' are left for the Piazzas? Penn State?

 

[BobPSU92]

A sad situation for all parties.

It is a sad situation for all parties. Years ago, you could have a party and have everyone drink as much as they wanted. No one cared. There were no consequences. Now, you can't have fun at parties.