OT: 3 PSU Frat brothers get jail time in hazing death at PSU.

[Chickenman Testa]

I don't see that as a common argument. It exists, certainly. I think there are levels of thinking along these lines:

1. It's all Piazza's fault.
2. Piazza should share blame with his parents who were lousy parents.
3. Piazza, his parents and the frat should be blamed, not PSU.
4. Piazza and the frat should be blamed, not PSU.
5. Piazza, his parents, the frat and PSU all share some level of responsibility.
6. Piazza, the frat and PSU all share some level of responsibility.
7. The frat and Penn State should have know better. It's their fault.
8. The frat is 100% at fault -- put them all in jail.
9. PSU is Hell -- burn it to the ground.

And then just looking at the punishment:

1. Piazza was an adult making an adult decision. The frat boys shouldn't be punished.
2. Piazza was an adult making an adult decision. But the frat boys should be punished to some extent.
3. The frat boys let him die. Throw the book at him.

And many more ideas fit between the lines as well. This is a discussion. None of us have 100% of the details. Therefore, all opinions should be considered to some extent.

Good post. I’ve generally come down after all this time in the 3 or 4 (fault) and 2 (punishment) groups

 

[Obliviax]

Good post. I’ve generally come down after all this time in the 3 or 4 (fault) and 2 (punishment) groups

I believe the frat has blame, but the frat is made up of young adults. at some point, someone has to step up and say "guys, this isn't cool". Nobody, apparently, did. This is an individual failing. Compounding matters, they didn't call 9-1-1 in a timely fashion and even conspired to hide evidence.

I hate that they have injured their lives. But a message has been sent that, at least, Penn State heard loud and clear. Hopefully, lives will be saved down the road. Its great to be a mountain climber. Lots of fun and people admire you. Then you fall and get killed. It is no longer fun and you are no longer admired. Go to college, have fun, drink, experiment, but don't fall.

 

[Pardlion]

Good post. I’ve generally come down after all this time in the 3 or 4 (fault) and 2 (punishment) groups

Based on what I know, I think:

"The Frat" 40%
Piazza 30%
Individual Members of the Frat (TBH, not sure who) 15%
Piazza's parents 15%
PSU -0-

 

[interrobang]

I'm still waiting for staircases to get banned from frats. I mean if there weren't stairs, Piazza would still be alive

 

[pennstgrad]

Frat was not banned from serving alcohol. PSU actually gave the frat a permit to serve alcohol that night. Adult football trainer was in the house knowing alcohol was being served and did not stop it. All under 21 except 2 pledges.

 

[pandaczar12]

In fairness, it is where the crime actually occurred. To your point there have been, ahem, other cases where the association with PSU has been greatly exaggerated.

Here I thought that the crime occurred at the Beta Theta Pi frat house, in State College Pennsylvania, United States, of planet Earth.

 

[MJG-90]

Here I thought that the crime occurred at the Beta Theta Pi frat house, in State College Pennsylvania, United States, of planet Earth.

Where is that house in State College? I am not familiar with any frat houses. I know a couple are (or were) on campus. And others are off campus in several different areas.

 

[MJG-90]

Based on what I know, I think:

"The Frat" 40%
Piazza 30%
Individual Members of the Frat (TBH, not sure who) 15%
Piazza's parents 15%
PSU -0-

PSU has some culpability in this. I don't think it's a lot. That's just my opinion. Sort of on the level of bar owner of the bar that served a couple of drinks to a guy, cut him off and paid for a cab, but the guy still got in his car and killed someone in an accident.

 

[pandaczar12]

Where is that house in State College? I am not familiar with any frat houses. I know a couple are (or were) on campus. And others are off campus in several different areas.

I’m also not familiar with the frat houses, because frat parties were lame.

But the link in my previous post says the address is State College. Click the link for the full address.

 

[PSUSignore]

Where is that house in State College? I am not familiar with any frat houses. I know a couple are (or were) on campus. And others are off campus in several different areas.

I believe this was one of the on campus houses. Although, technically those homes are not part of campus because they aren't owned by PSU. They are simply surrounded by the PSU campus but I believe they are privately owned.

 

[Pardlion]

PSU has some culpability in this. I don't think it's a lot. That's just my opinion. Sort of on the level of bar owner of the bar that served a couple of drinks to a guy, cut him off and paid for a cab, but the guy still got in his car and killed someone in an accident.

We went through this before. I believe there is some doctrine that protects schools from vacarious-type liability for the acts of frats. I guess if the school did something on its own to incur liability this could be circumvented, but I'm not really aware of anything here. I'm sure the Piazzas lawyer will gin something up, though.

 

[UncleLar]

I believe this was one of the on campus houses. Although, technically those homes are not part of campus because they aren't owned by PSU. They are simply surrounded by the PSU campus but I believe they are privately owned.

It is an on-campus house.

 

[pandaczar12]

It is an on-campus house.

“The subject premises are located immediately adjacent to the University Park Campus of Penn State,”

https://www.collegian.psu.edu/beta_theta_pi/article_6ba3b622-ed1d-11e8-b525-eb8bede8a6a7.html

 

[Sproul]

Where is that house in State College? I am not familiar with any frat houses. I know a couple are (or were) on campus. And others are off campus in several different areas.

It’s the third one down the hill from rec hall.

 

[UncleLar]

“The subject premises are located immediately adjacent to the University Park Campus of Penn State,”

https://www.collegian.psu.edu/beta_theta_pi/article_6ba3b622-ed1d-11e8-b525-eb8bede8a6a7.html

Regardless of what the Collegian writer meant when she wrote that, the fraternity is on campus. It's directly across from Deike Building on Burrowes.

 

[marshall23]

As long as there are colleges/universities and young people who attend and reside there......there will be parties, consumption of alcohol and raising hell in general. This could have occurred at any one of the dozens of parties I attended in college almost 50 years ago. It was only thru the grace of God that it didn't. I do recall a fraternity brother having his stomach pumped.I attended college about 20 miles from the NY state border. At the time, the legal drinking age there was 18. Each year, students died in auto accidents that were alcohol related as they drove or rode in an inebriated condition. It didn't slow down the exodus each night to the border bars. From what I have read, the deceased was not introduced to the consumption of alcohol by his "brothers," but rather active in his "partying." This despite being prescribed medication that contraindicated its consumption. I've read that there were "pledges" that did not partake of the "hazing" that included the drinking of alcohol and still were admitted to the fraternity.
The concerns I would have are more about the poor judgement exercised when it should have been apparent that the deceased should be "checked out" at a hospital or urgent care facility. If anyone thinks the convictions and prison time served by the young men in question will diminish the partying at any university, they are mistaken. Nor will it do anything to assuage the anguish of the parents no matter what their attorney says.

 

[pandaczar12]

Regardless of what the Collegian writer meant when she wrote that, the fraternity is on campus. It's directly across from Deike Building on Burrowes.

Well it was a direct quote from the PSU lawsuit, so that is what she meant to write. I’m guessing PSU knows what they are talking about. Regardless, maybe you should contact them and not me if you think it is incorrect.