OT: for the "Kaepernick isn't good enough" crowd

[lein]

...His actions were viewed as hate speech against veterans who died for his right to he a poor rich asshole.

I don't agree with that last sentence. I think most vets would argue that defending free speech is one of the reasons they answered the call and put on the uniform.
...
.

Not to pick on you personally but I often hear things like this. Just because vets do take an oath to defend freedom of speech, that doesn't mean someones exercise of that speech can't insult them or feel hateful. The overwhelming majority of veterans i'm around find his actions insulting. Much like they find flag burning insulting. But like that Voltaire quote, they'll defend with their life ones right to say it.

 

[LukeIamYourFather]

Ummmm. No.

Strong argument. Likely works well at recess. Significant supporting points made.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Not to pick on you personally but I often hear things like this. Just because vets do take an oath to defend freedom of speech, that doesn't mean someones exercise of that speech can't insult them or feel hateful. The overwhelming majority of veterans i'm around find his actions insulting. Much like they find flag burning insulting. But like that Voltaire quote, they'll defend with their life ones right to say it.

you mean like the #VeteransForKaepernick ??

 

[lein]

you mean like the #VeteransForKaepernick ??

And here is another nitpick I have, I never said all veterans.

 

[marshall23]

Barry Bonds had a 480 OBP in his final year and couldn't find a job. Some times you are not worth the baggage you bring with you. If Kap were a star, he would have been employed. He's marginal at best as a starter. Relies on his legs and they get old fast in the NFL.

 

[junior1]

Show me the NFL rule that states players have to stand for the anthem. Then you have a discussion point. Until then, he merely did something that upsets certain people. Yes, that has consequences. So be it.

That's true. Also true that NFL viewership is down. One survey said 26% of the reduction is because of these player protests. So if we assume owners want to make money and players want a functioning league to play in, we have another situation that upsets certain other people. Players actions have consequences - ray rice, zeke Elliott. So be it. No one has a right to play in the NFL.

 

[Raffycorn]

Barry Bonds had a 480 OBP in his final year and couldn't find a job. Some times you are not worth the baggage you bring with you. If Kap were a star, he would have been employed. He's marginal at best as a starter. Relies on his legs and they get old fast in the NFL.

Don't your first and third sentences contradict each other? Barry Bonds was a bona fide star and was one of the greatest active players to ever play the game and every single owner still passed him over.

 

[marshall23]

Don't your first and third sentences contradict each other? Barry Bonds was a bona fide star and was one of the greatest active players to ever play the game and every single owner still passed him over.

In his final two years his production certainly dropped off. If you look at his OBP an argument could be made that he was still "productive." Or to put it as Kaep supporters do "he deserved a spot..." on an MLB roster. If BB had hit 45 homers instead of 26 he would have been signed. His 26 homers didn't outweigh his "baggage."

 

[MtNittany]

I don't think the majority of Americans give a s**t about Kap one way or another. But wage on w/ your battle.

 

[Westcoast24]

OK let's play a game

You are the General Manager of an NFL team and you desperately need a #2 QB - one with experience, can run, throw and control the huddle. Your #3 is a kid you just drafted in the last round and is no way ready to be #2. No other team in the league has a back up to fit your need. The CFL season is still ongoing and you can't import anyone from the Arena League. You only care about their on field abilities:

You have only two options that fit into your scheme:

Tim Tebow or Colin Kapernick.

No one else - you can't ask Fran Tarkenton to unretire, Michael Vick is not available and Billy Kilmer's arm is surprisingly weaker than it has ever been.

Tebow or Kapernick? And why?

Grabs popcorn and looks forward to what follows.

 

[LukeIamYourFather]

OK let's play a game

You are the General Manager of an NFL team and you desperately need a #2 QB - one with experience, can run, throw and control the huddle. Your #3 is a kid you just drafted in the last round and is no way ready to be #2. No other team in the league has a back up to fit your need. The CFL season is still ongoing and you can't import anyone from the Arena League. You only care about their on field abilities:

You have only two options that fit into your scheme:

Tim Tebow or Colin Kapernick.

No one else - you can't ask Fran Tarkenton to unretire, Michael Vick is not available and Billy Kilmer's arm is surprisingly weaker than it has ever been.

Tebow or Kapernick? And why?

What a stupid strawman. Only 2 choices, your and a guy who is playing baseball. Why not make your hypothetical your guy against spiderman? Or a hurricane? Wait, what if the hurricane is named hurricane Ditka? Keep firing a$$holes!

 

[lein]

Here's the thing. Players are employees of the team/NFL. The NFL is not required to play the national anthem. It is their choice. But if they choose to do it, they ought to do it right, and that includes their employees being respectful. If they can't manage their workers to behave themselves, but want to play the anthem, then play it before they take the field.

Those who want to make the NFL some sort of nonsensical social justice experiment, are you equally upset that no MLB team has ever asked Rosanne Barr to sing the national again? She is capable of singing it. Is it an injustice that she has been blackballed? You know, free speech and stuff.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

And here is another nitpick I have, I never said all veterans.

another nitpick I have . . . you may know 3 veterans. yes, a vast majority might take issue with K.

 

[psuro]

What a stupid strawman. Only 2 choices, your and a guy who is playing baseball. Why not make your hypothetical your guy against spiderman? Or a hurricane? Wait, what if the hurricane is named hurricane Ditka? Keep firing a$$holes!

You are a crazy mo fu! Dude I want to party with you!

 

[psuro]

What a stupid strawman. Only 2 choices, your and a guy who is playing baseball. Why not make your hypothetical your guy against spiderman? Or a hurricane? Wait, what if the hurricane is named hurricane Ditka? Keep firing a$$holes!

Tell you what sparky. You come up with your own scenario and we will all chime in

 

[demlion]

So in a sport where fans routinely overlook spouse abuse, rape allegations,and drug abuse to cheer on their team, an anthem kneel makes them bitter?

Perhaps the sensitivities of those who cheer for what is now shown to be almost certain brain damage need not be catered to by thinking adults.

 

[psuro]

So in a sport where fans routinely overlook spouse abuse, rape allegations,and drug abuse to cheer on their team, an anthem kneel makes them bitter?

Perhaps the sensitivities of those who cheer for what is now shown to be almost certain brain damage need not be catered to by thinking adults.

I said something similar yesterday in a thread that has since been deleted.

Did not much of a response from the maddening crowd. Hope you get a better response.

 

[Countrylion]

Show me the NFL rule that states players have to stand for the anthem. Then you have a discussion point. Until then, he merely did something that upsets certain people. Yes, that has consequences. So be it.

Then why are we still discussing this? Yes there are consequences, especially when a large number of your audience says they stopped watching because to the kneeling during the national anthem. People in this thread don't seem to understand that the NFL is a business and Kap became bad for business. Sorry that is life.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

if the guy were willing to take a lesser contract as a backup he would be on a team....he turned that down.....I think teams would love to sign him as a backup but he wants to start and get starter money......nobody wants him as a starter

 

[Agoodnap]

if the guy were willing to take a lesser contract as a backup he would be on a team....he turned that down.....I think teams would love to sign him as a backup but he wants to start and get starter money......nobody wants him as a starter

No he wouldn't be employed. Read the post above this one. Kap hurt business. When you hurt business you are unemployed...that's always the case.

 

[MtNittany]

MM and Dem - I don't think anyone really cares either way other than the media. If Kap could make a team money, I assume he'd get hired. The nfl loves money.

Dem - I left you a song at the very end of the GC thread.

 

[N&B4PSU]

I think I read all of these and I have a question.. how come nobody mentioned Marshawn Lynch? Among others?

It seems the owners (and fans?) are saying if you are good enough to get us a few wins and maybe make the playoffs, you can do handsprings or smoke weed or beat up a cheerleader on the sidelines and we're cool with that (ok, perhaps the cheerleader part was an exaggeration... btw, everytime i spell exaggeration it simply looks wrong).

The video aside (and you can make a lot of mid-level players look damned good on a highlight reel) Kap is not valued in the same manner by fans or owners and it simply isn't worth the agg to bring him on board (although i'll be shocked if someone doesn't go for it).

As to the Vets issue... I think society in general (not Vets) presume they know what Vets have lived and died for... likely not accurate, but people make assumptions. Frankly I'd be more curious what oldtimer Vets (Korea, WW1 and 2) think about it more so than those in Vietnam or later... might be the same. but i'd be interested in that conversation. [I know what my Father would have to say and i know what my brother says.]

I think it would be entertaining if the owners all walked into the locker rooms and told the players that if they want to do anything but stand and respect the anthem/flag, that's cool. BUT if you don't play (and make all those cool mega-bucks bonuses), well, that might just be the result. Doubt any owners have cajones to do so, but it would be fun to watch and see how a player like Lynch would respond if his millions in bonuses went poof. [and for all i know, there is some guarantee in the contract that protects them from this kind of thing.]

 

[psuro]

Wasn't Kaoernicks jersey the best seller last year? I would assume his team and the league get a percentage of the revenue.

Can anyone provide statistics as to how much money he has cost his now former employer?

 

[Lyons212]

Kaepernick is 3-16 as a starting QB the last 2 years, played for a bad team but he obviously was not a huge difference maker. If Kaepernick is your starting QB, you are most likely not going to the playoffs...he would be an upgrade for many teams at the #2 QB, his baggage is not worth it.

Business leaders and entertainers need to realize that getting involved in politics is bad for the bottom line. Michael Jordan said it best when asked why he did not get involved with Democratic party causes, "Republicans buy shoes too".

 

[psuro]

Kaepernick is 3-16 as a starting QB the last 2 years, played for a bad team but he obviously was not a huge difference maker. If Kaepernick is your starting QB, you are most likely not going to the playoffs...he would be an upgrade for many teams at the #2 QB, his baggage is not worth it.

Business leaders and entertainers need to realize that getting involved in politics is bad for the bottom line. Michael Jordan said it best when asked why he did not get involved with Democratic party causes, "Republicans buy shoes too".

But how many teams have players that have committed actual crimes on their rosters? Real crimes against other people, or in the case of Michael Vick - animals.

I take it you also want Chris Long to keep quiet?

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

No he wouldn't be employed. Read the post above this one. Kap hurt business. When you hurt business you are unemployed...that's always the case.

read the article that I posted earlier though....he was offered a back up QB job and turned it down....he would be employed if he had accepted the offer

 

[psuro]

No he wouldn't be employed. Read the post above this one. Kap hurt business. When you hurt business you are unemployed...that's always the case.

Can you confirm and verify how he hurt business? His jersey was the best seller last year (at least for a while). I am looking for statistical evidence that he hurt business. And please leave your emotions out of it - just looking for data points to support the hypothesis.

 

[dawgduice]

Actually, the entire NFL "system" with national and local government corruption is a joke and insult. But, do I REALLY care ????
We are powerless to change it. We like to pretend we have some say, but the reality is we do not.
SOOOOOOOO enjoy the game

 

[psuro]

Actually, the entire NFL "system" with national and local government corruption is a joke and insult. But, do I REALLY care ????
We are powerless to change it. We like to pretend we have some say, but the reality is we do not.
SOOOOOOOO enjoy the game

That's probable the most reasoned response in this whole thread.

 

[psuro]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/never-...ed-sporting-events-first-place-235224675.html

Why do they play the national anthem at sporting events anyway?

They don't play the national anthem at the start of the business day in non sporting events, right?

 

[mlvnsmly]

My problem isn't that he wants to protest the way things are in America. That's fine. Why, though, do you need to disrespect something that's important to others to do it? To me it would be like screaming during a moment of silence or knocking A Thon can out of a student's hands at an intersection (for the Pitt trolls). Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you should go out and sh17 on it for everyone that does find it important.

That said, this is about performance vs cost. Winning is what sells, plain and simple. Also, money is very tight with salary caps. No team can afford to pay starting money for 2 QBs and be successful. If nobody sees him as a starter and he's demanding starter money, he's going to be a fan just like us.

Seriously though, how long before this guy is a Brown?

 

[Raffycorn]

read the article that I posted earlier though....he was offered a back up QB job and turned it down....he would be employed if he had accepted the offer

A story from some far-right website (that doesn't even cover sports) quoting one anonymous source that calls Kaepernick a "race messiah" is a story that I take with a number of grains of salt.

 

[psuro]

A story from some far-right website (that doesn't even cover sports) quoting one anonymous source that calls Kaepernick a "race messiah" is a story that I take with a number of grains of salt.

By anonymous source do you mean "Luke.......father"??

 

[BobPSU92]

Would like him as a back-up to Ben for the Steelers instead of Landry Jones.

Landry Jones should play for the Cowboys. He'd be a fan favorite there.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Can you confirm and verify how he hurt business? His jersey was the best seller last year (at least for a while). I am looking for statistical evidence that he hurt business. And please leave your emotions out of it - just looking for data points to support the hypothesis.

c'mon man, demanding FACTS? from some of these people?

MUY LOCO!

 

[denniskembala]

What Kaep did was equal to baring your behind in public, and someone puts it on social media where a prospective/your employer sees it. There's going to be some unpleasantry.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

Kaepernick is 3-16 as a starting QB the last 2 years, played for a bad team but he obviously was not a huge difference maker. If Kaepernick is your starting QB, you are most likely not going to the playoffs...he would be an upgrade for many teams at the #2 QB, his baggage is not worth it.

Business leaders and entertainers need to realize that getting involved in politics is bad for the bottom line. Michael Jordan said it best when asked why he did not get involved with Democratic party causes, "Republicans buy shoes too".

bad team? do me a favor and tell me the top 3 SF receivers during the game against the Saints in 2016, when K threw for 398 yds and 2 TDs

also, how many times did he get sacked that season in 12 starts?

 

[BisbeeMike]

What was the situation with this guy a few years back with a police investigation again? Something about date rape or that kind of topic? Was it him or was it his friend? I seem to recall some kind of police contact with him over some kind of crime but it's not quite hitting the front of my mind right now.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

What was the situation with this guy a few years back with a police investigation again? Something about date rape or that kind of topic? Was it him or was it his friend? I seem to recall some kind of police contact with him over some kind of crime but it's not quite hitting the front of my mind right now.

here was the initial report:

K investigated for alleged sexual assault in Miami

he was later cleared:

LINK

lady sounded a little . . . off . . .

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Social injustices and political points of view aside, people need to stop giving a sh*t about what athletes do. Seriously. Get new heroes.