OT: Live University/Fraternity Shaming coming up at 10AM (link)...
- Thread starter MtNittany
- Start date
I am pretty confident that some of the Beta boys can afford better than a public defender....
This is obviously an impossible question to answer, but they do pretty much have video of the entire night. So it will be pretty hard to dispute some of the actions taken by those charged. This isn't exactly a he said/she said case.
ANSWER: Because SPM is running for re-election. Centre County voters - VOTE FOR BERNIE!!!
Pretty sure once people start turning up dead at your events where you are pumping underage folks full of booze its time to pay the piper.
I drank in college, including before I turned 21. Anything dumb that I did, I took responsibility for, and didn't blame the guy who supplied the booze. Different story, I suppose, if there was some compulsion to drink, but if this is just a case of a 19-year old voluntarily drinking too much, and a bunch of officious blowhards trying to find a scapegoat for the consequences . . . well . . . screw that.
But just because there's video doesn't mean the video shows a crime (or, the most serious crimes at least). The fact that Miller hyped the video so much tells me she's going to lean on that the most at trial.
OK...some. Regardless, unless they are children of Bill Gates, they don't have the resources of the state of PA.
By Charles Thompson | cthompson@pennlive.com
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on May 05, 2017 at 11:03 AM
One name missing from the grand jury presentment recommending charges in a February Penn State fraternity death is Tim Bream.
Bream, the head trainer for the Penn State football program, was living at the Beta Theta Pi house as a senior residential advisor and was apparently at the sprawling home the night the fatal "pledge night" activities occurred.
But unlike 18 fraternity brothers, he was not charged in connection with any of the events surrounding the Feb. 4 death of Beta pledge and Penn State sophomore Timothy Piazza.
Centre County District Attorney Stacy Parks Miller said there was apparently no evidence that Bream had any knowledge of the injuries to Piazza, or that he was consulted by student members about how to handle them.
At this point, the district attorney said, she can attach no criminal responsibility to Bream.
Bream, a Gettysburg native and Penn State graduate who came back to his alma mater in 2012 after a lengthy stint as head trainer for the NFL's Chicago Bears, had been living at the house since the 2015-16 school year.
He moved into the house after separating from his wife, sources have said.
Bream, who was "welcomed back" to the Penn State chapter in an old post on the chapter's Web site, has not responded to multiple phone messages or emails left by PennLive since February.
Follow on Twitter
on May 05, 2017 at 11:03 AM
One name missing from the grand jury presentment recommending charges in a February Penn State fraternity death is Tim Bream.
Bream, the head trainer for the Penn State football program, was living at the Beta Theta Pi house as a senior residential advisor and was apparently at the sprawling home the night the fatal "pledge night" activities occurred.
But unlike 18 fraternity brothers, he was not charged in connection with any of the events surrounding the Feb. 4 death of Beta pledge and Penn State sophomore Timothy Piazza.
Centre County District Attorney Stacy Parks Miller said there was apparently no evidence that Bream had any knowledge of the injuries to Piazza, or that he was consulted by student members about how to handle them.
At this point, the district attorney said, she can attach no criminal responsibility to Bream.
Bream, a Gettysburg native and Penn State graduate who came back to his alma mater in 2012 after a lengthy stint as head trainer for the NFL's Chicago Bears, had been living at the house since the 2015-16 school year.
He moved into the house after separating from his wife, sources have said.
Bream, who was "welcomed back" to the Penn State chapter in an old post on the chapter's Web site, has not responded to multiple phone messages or emails left by PennLive since February.
I never said it did, but obviously the DA thinks it does. The furnishing alcohol charges will be pretty easy to prove with the tape if anyone is shown giving him/making him drink. Regardless of the usual "i don't blame others if I drink" posts, that's a crime and an easy one to prove with video. The more serious charges will come down to the legal definitions of reckless and negligent and be based on what was and wasn't shown on the tapes like if members saw him fall, checked on him, and other things. Of course SPM will lean on the video, any prosecutor would, including Bernie C.
All of the alcohol consumed by the pledges that night (including Piazza) was part of a hazing ritual to commemorate the acceptance of their fraternity bids. It wasn't a situation where some random kid got drunk at a fraternity party.
OK...so the state is only allowed to charge crimes against people who have more money than the state?
OK. Now I understand. The brothers held the kid down, shoved a funnel in his mouth, and forced alcohol down his throat. The kid had no say in the matter and wasn't able to make a decision whether to drink the beverage. Now it all makes sense to me. The brothers should go to jail and the parents of the kid should get a huge financial windfall - probably from the Pennsylvania taxpayers.
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The DA also thinks grand jury presentments are a great idea and that letting a victim impact statement be made during the presser is a good idea. Oh and she's up for re-election.
We'll direct deposit $3 million into your account by Monday.
Not sure what's true and what isn't.
Nonetheless, may I remind you that it was 37 years ago on May 3rd that Mothers Against Drunk Driving actually started once 13 y/o Cari was walking quietly along her way when she was struck and killed by a drunk motorist.
Alcohol (albeit legal) should be illegal. It's a horrible substance. One almost needs to schooled HOW to drink the stuff responsibly. Some figure it out over time; others figure it out the hard way.
You eliminate cigarettes, alcohol and processed foods and I'm unemployed.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/madd-founders-daughter-killed-by-drunk-driver
Alcohol Use in the United States:
- Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), 86.4 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they drank alcohol at some point in their lifetime; 70.1 percent reported that they drank in the past year; 56.0 percent reported that they drank in the past month.1
- Prevalence of Binge Drinking and Heavy Drinking: In 2015, 26.9 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they engaged in binge drinking in the past month; 7.0 percent reported that they engaged in heavy alcohol use in the past month.2 (See sidebar on page 2 for definitions of binge drinking and heavy alcohol use.)
- Adults (ages 18+): According to the 2015 NSDUH, 15.1 million adults ages 18 and older3 (6.2 percent of this age group4) had AUD. This includes 9.8 million men3 (8.4 percent of men in this age group4) and 5.3 million women3 (4.2 percent of women in this age group4).
- About 1.3 million adults received treatment for AUD at a specialized facility in 2015 (8.3 percent of adults who needed treatment).5 This included 898,000 men5 (8.8 percent of men who needed treatment) and 417,000 women (7.5 percent of women who needed treatment).5
- Youth (ages 12–17): According to the 2015 NSDUH, an estimated 623,000 adolescents ages 12–176 (2.5 percent of this age group7) had AUD. This number includes 298,000 males6 (2.3 percent of males in this age group7) and 325,000 females6 (2.7 percent of females in this age group7).
- An estimated 37,000 adolescents (22,000 males and 15,000 females) received treatment for an alcohol problem in a specialized facility in 2015.8
- An estimated 88,0009 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women9) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the fourth leading preventable cause of death in the United States.10
- In 2014, alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 9,967 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).11
- In 2010, alcohol misuse cost the United States $249.0 billion.12
- Three-quarters of the total cost of alcohol misuse is related to binge drinking.12
- In 2012, 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 percent of all global deaths (7.6 percent for men and 4.0 percent for women), were attributable to alcohol consumption.13
- In 2014, the World Health Organization reported that alcohol contributed to more than 200 diseases and injury-related health conditions, most notably DSM–IV alcohol dependence (see sidebar), liver cirrhosis, cancers, and injuries.14 In 2012, 5.1 percent of the burden of disease and injury worldwide (139 million disability-adjusted life-years) was attributable to alcohol consumption.13
- Globally, alcohol misuse is the fifth leading risk factor for premature death and disability; among people between the ages of 15 and 49, it is the first.15 In the age group 20–39 years, approximately 25 percent of the total deaths are alcohol attributable.16
- More than 10 percent of U.S. children live with a parent with alcohol problems, according to a 2012 study.17
- Prevalence of Underage Alcohol Use:
- Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 33.1 percent of 15-year-olds report that they have had at least 1 drink in their lives.18 About 7.7 million people ages 12–2019 (20.3 percent of this age group20) reported drinking alcohol in the past month (19.8 percent of males and 20.8 percent of females20).
- Prevalence of Binge Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 5.1 million people19 (about 13.4 percent20) ages 12–20 (13.4 percent of males and 13.3 percent of females20) reported binge drinking in the past month.20).
- Prevalence of Heavy Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, approximately 1.3 million people19 (about 3.3 percent20) ages 12–20 (3.6 percent of males and 3.0 percent of females20) reported heavy alcohol use in the past month).
- Consequences of Underage Alcohol Use:
- Research indicates that alcohol use during the teenage years could interfere with normal adolescent brain development and increase the risk of developing AUD. In addition, underage drinking contributes to a range of acute consequences, including injuries, sexual assaults, and even deaths—including those from car crashes.21
- Prevalence of Alcohol Use:
- Prevalence of Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 58.0 percent of full-time college students ages 18–22 drank alcohol in the past month compared with 48.2 percent of other persons of the same age.22
- Prevalence of Binge Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 37.9 percent of college students ages 18–22 reported binge drinking in the past month compared with 32.6 percent of other persons of the same age.22
- Prevalence of Heavy Drinking: According to the 2015 NSDUH, 12.5 percent of college students ages 18–22 reported heavy alcohol use in the past month compared with 8.5 percent of other persons of the same age.22
- Consequences—Researchers estimate that each year:
- 1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die from alcohol-related unintentional injuries, including motor-vehicle crashes.23
- 696,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking.24
- 97,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report experiencing alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape.24
- Roughly 20 percent of college students meet the criteria for AUD.25
- About 1 in 4 college students report academic consequences from drinking, including missing class, falling behind in class, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall.26
- The prevalence of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) in the United States was estimated by the Institute of Medicine in 1996 to be between 0.5 and 3.0 cases per 1,000.27
- More recent reports from specific U.S. sites report the prevalence of FAS to be 2 to 7 cases per 1,000, and the prevalence of Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD) to be as high as 20 to 50 cases per 1,000.28,29
- In 2013, of the 72,559 liver disease deaths among individuals ages 12 and older, 45.8 percent involved alcohol. Among males, 48.5 percent of the 46,568 liver disease deaths involved alcohol. Among females, 41.8 percent of the 25,991 liver disease deaths involved alcohol.30
- Among all cirrhosis deaths in 2013, 47.9 percent were alcohol related. The proportion of alcohol-related cirrhosis was highest (76.5 percent) among deaths of persons ages 25–34, followed by deaths of persons aged 35–44, at 70.0 percent.31
- In 2009, alcohol-related liver disease was the primary cause of almost 1 in 3 liver transplants in the United States.32
- Drinking alcohol increases the risk of cancers of the mouth, esophagus, pharynx, larynx, liver, and breast.33
- Moderate alcohol consumption, according to the 2015–2020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, is up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.34
- Moderate alcohol consumption may have beneficial effects on health. These include decreased risk for heart disease and mortality due to heart disease, decreased risk of ischemic stroke (in which the arteries to the brain become narrowed or blocked, resulting in reduced blood flow), and decreased risk of diabetes.35
- In most Western countries where chronic diseases such as coronary heart disease (CHD), cancer, stroke, and diabetes are the primary causes of death, results from large epidemiological studies consistently show that alcohol reduces mortality, especially among middle-aged and older men and women—an association which is likely due to the protective effects of moderate alcohol consumption on CHD, diabetes, and ischemic stroke.35
- It is estimated that 26,000 deaths were averted in 2005 because of reductions in ischemic heart disease, ischemic stroke, and diabetes from the benefits attributed to moderate alcohol consumption.36
- Expanding our understanding of the relationship between moderate alcohol consumption and potential health benefits remains a challenge, and, although there are positive effects, alcohol may not benefit everyone who drinks moderately.
- More information about the potential health benefits, as well as risks, of moderate alcohol consumption can be found at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15201626.
You say this w/ the certainty of someone who was there, or who has watched the videos - neither of which describes you btw.
So you're saying that the fraternity brothers all lied under oath, and the text messages they exchanged planning the night and the receipts for the alcohol they purchased for the pledges are fabricated?
You should really at least make an attempt to inform yourself of the evidence before you make yourself look more foolish.
All correct. What you left out is any possible opt out opportunity passed up by Piazza.
Alcohol (like tobacco and heroin and cocaine, etc.) are poisons and it is too bad they exist. However, alcohol has been an accepted part of our culture for a long time. We tried to ban it once and that was an abysmal failure. Many people seem to get pleasure from drinking alcohol laden beverages. I don't drink and I don't understand the attraction. Imbibing alcohol laden liquid makes no sense to me. We all live a finite number of hours. Why live a fraction of them impaired and unable to sense what is going on around you? However, alcohol use is cemented as part of our society and there seems to be nothing that can be done about it.
The fraternity members and pledges testified under oath to the alcohol they consumed that night. So unless they're lying, their texts are fabricated, liquor store receipts are fabricated, and video footage is contrary to the way it was described, I think we can say with pretty strong confidence that the alcohol consumption was the way they all described it as being.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Piazza is the only party responsible for his death?
I'm not trying to argue anything. I long for the days when these matters were settled in court rooms, not in the media and on twitter.
So you have personal knowledge that the entire night was one long hazing ritual? You have personal knowledge that none of the many decisions Tim Piazza made concerning the consumption of alcohol were voluntary?
OK, run with that.
Dude, you started a 20 page thread less than a week ago because a documentary filmmaker on Twitter accused someone of committing perjury because he texted a woman a picture of his penis. Get out of here with this "I wish these matters weren't settled away from a courtroom" nonsense.
I don't have personal knowledge - but the fraternity brothers and pledges who testified under oath that it was certainly had that personal knowledge. And whether or not Piazza voluntarily made the decision to consume the alcohol he was given has zero relevance whatsoever on whether it was a crime to give it to him in the fashion that they did. It's an absurd argument.
What does that have to do with Beta? JS had his trial and it was a criminal enterprise disguised as a disaster - even you know this.
Whatever JZ does is on him and he proudly, publicly owns it. Not on me, or anyone else for posting it.
I assume you are hating me on the wrong post, but to answer your question - they should be free to hold a press conference on their own anytime they would like, just not in conjunction w/ a taxpayer funded media/campaign event.
I have no dog in this fight, but you may want to read the whole 81 page presentment. I believe the ritual is called "The Gauntlet"
http://onwardstate.com/2017/05/05/document-full-grand-jury-presentment-in-beta-theta-pi-case/
Is it any more accurate than the ones we've been exposed to in the past?
I just quoted the most recent post in that line....
Is it really your contention that the DA can not present the victims side in public? That's pretty much the sole job of the DA.
That is a reasonable position, but you resort to snark often enuff to make yourself appear unreasonable here.
That is the basic problem with your entire posting strategy on these pages.
This pisses me off.... Bream's name wasn't mentioned in the presentment, so PennLive has to mention it on their own and tie it to football. 18 members charged... a large number, but not everyone in the house, I presume. But they have to drag Breams' name into it, and use phrases like "one name missing" and "at this point", making it seem as though his name will be brought into this sooner or later. If the DA doesn't do it, we can count on PennLive to make sure they do their best to imply all they can to make it seem like this somehow gets tied to football.
I wouldn't respond to PennLive's phone messages or emails either, except maybe by my attorney to tell them to GFY.
Chuck Thompson, Dave Jones, Nick Horvath.... all long-time residents of the company shanty town of the journalism world, which is basically a local trailer park as it is anyway.
The fact that they may have had a pledging ceremony at the beginning of the evening does not mean that the entire night was one long hazing ritual. There's an old saying in the legal profession that a DA can, if he or she wants, get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. That is in no small part because grand jury proceedings frequently omit the presentation of any exculpating evidence.
Stacy Parks Miller has had her dog and pony show. Maybe it will get her reelected. We'll see. But you should not assume that the trial(s) will in any way resemble today's media extravaganza. The trial(s) will feature both the participation of defense attorneys and the presentation of evidence that Ms. Parks Miller understandably (but conveniently) omitted to mention.
