OT: PIAA, leveling the playing field

[PurposePitch]

Here's the thing ... no one should give a rip if they actually do, or don't recruit. Private schools shouldn't be playing public schools in team sports, when it comes to the postseason.

Of course we know they recruit, but that's not important. The important thing is that the CAN recruit, and have an unfair advantage over publics. Public school attendance is based on geographic residence, and privates can bypass that.

Just separate them and be done with it. They aren't the same.

 

[creamery]

Perhaps there’s some parts of the state where private schools stay in their lane and don’t recruit (much) but the Philly area is an awful abuse of recruiting by both private and Catholic schools (District 12). And in this area there are some public’s that do it too. But not to the level of what goes on with the charter schools in Philly and District 12. I can’t speak to what goes on in Erie and Pittsburgh and Harrisburg but I can say confidently that it’s a different level in Philadelphia.

PurposePitch has it right, they should be separated for state championships and can have a Tournament of Champions like in NJ if they want.

 

[bison13]

Perhaps there’s some parts of the state where private schools stay in their lane and don’t recruit (much) but the Philly area is an awful abuse of recruiting by both private and Catholic schools (District 12). And in this area there are some public’s that do it too. But not to the level of what goes on with the charter schools in Philly and District 12. I can’t speak to what goes on in Erie and Pittsburgh and Harrisburg but I can say confidently that it’s a different level in Philadelphia.

PurposePitch has it right, they should be separated for state championships and can have a Tournament of Champions like in NJ if they want.

Pittsburgh is similar to Philly with the privates recruiting, central Catholic and Oakland Catholic, our Lady of Sacred Heart, Bishop Canevin, Saint Joseph’s, Eden Christian, Imani Christian, etc. Plus, if you live south of the city towards Washington, you can even get a couple of the West Virginia privates like wheeling central or Linsley to recruit you.

Over by Harrisburg, you have McDevitt that reaches down into Maryland to get kids. DeLone, York and Berks Catholic are all recruiting schools plus just about every single A school in district 3 is some type of Christian, Catholic, country day or other special type of school.

 

[BucksLion52]

Ho

Pittsburgh is similar to Philly with the privates recruiting, central Catholic and Oakland Catholic our Lady of Sacred Heart Bishop Canevin, Saint Joseph’s, Eden Christian Imani Christian, etc. Plus, if you live south of the city Towards Washington, you can even get a couple of the West Virginia privates like wheeling central or Linsley to recruit you.

Over by Harrisburg, you have McDevitt that reaches down into Maryland to get kids. deLone York and Berks Catholic are all recruiting schools plus just about every single A school in district 3 is some type of Christian, Catholic, country day or special type of school.

In reality this is about football correct? Specifically about St Joe's Prep. They have made a commitment to emphasis football on a national level along with some other Northeast private schools. It wasn't always this way. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the PA public schools historicly dominate the state football hierarchy? SJP has always recruited, nothing new. I don't hear the rest of the state complain when La Salle or Wood from the same league lose in the playoff to a public school. I actually like the fact that a school from the area can play and beat the likes of IMG, St Ed's Don Bosco, Bergen, St Thomas Aquinas etc. Separate them in the playoffs if you like but what does that achieve?

 

[bison13]

Ho

In reality this is about football correct? Specifically about St Joe's Prep. They have made a commitment to emphasis football on a national level along with some other Northeast private schools. It wasn't always this way. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the PA public schools historicly dominate the state football hierarchy? SJP has always recruited, nothing new. I don't hear the rest of the state complain when La Salle or Wood from the same league lose in the playoff to a public school. I actually like the fact that a school from the area can play and beat the likes of IMG, St Ed's Don Bosco, Bergen, St Thomas Aquinas etc. Separate them in the playoffs if you like but what does that achieve?

I think it is just in general about privates recruiting for athletics and thus having an unfair advantage to boundary restricted schools. Look at all of the basketball teams winning state championships, always privates.

 

[AWS1022]

From my experiences, those are the ones that recruit the most. they don’t have a football team so they can exhaust all of their resources towards basketball. Just tell us already what school you’re talking about in PA since you’re the only person who defends the private schools every time we talk about this.

Doesn’t matter the name, they are more apt to recruit for their theater program than their athletic program.

 

[AWS1022]

Pittsburgh is similar to Philly with the privates recruiting, central Catholic and Oakland Catholic, our Lady of Sacred Heart, Bishop Canevin, Saint Joseph’s, Eden Christian, Imani Christian, etc. Plus, if you live south of the city towards Washington, you can even get a couple of the West Virginia privates like wheeling central or Linsley to recruit you.

Over by Harrisburg, you have McDevitt that reaches down into Maryland to get kids. DeLone, York and Berks Catholic are all recruiting schools plus just about every single A school in district 3 is some type of Christian, Catholic, country day or other special type of school.

Martinsburg recruits far more than Wheeling Central or Linsley in WV. And the biggest recruiting school in the whole state is Greenbrier East. Those are both public schools.

 

[bison13]

Martinsburg recruits far more than Wheeling Central or Linsley in WV. And the biggest recruiting school in the whole state is Greenbrier East. Those are both public schools.

Greenbrier East I can not speak for but Martinsburg? Lol Sure they get kids who move in every year, but its to escape the taxes and cost of living in Northern VA and MD. I've sent multiple kids to Shepherd, the area is growing for that reason. Close enough to DC if you have to get there but nice country living.

 

[AWS1022]

Greenbrier East I can not speak for but Martinsburg? Lol Sure they get kids who move in every year, but its to escape the taxes and cost of living in Northern VA and MD. I've sent multiple kids to Shepherd, the area is growing for that reason. Close enough to DC if you have to get there but nice country living.

There are a lot of nice areas around there to live, but all the football players just happen to want to live in Martinsburg. Right. And Greenbrier East gives jobs to the parents of the basketball players they want (at the Greenbrier). Jim Justice is the coach of both the boys and girls teams (not sure if he still coaches) and buys the players he wants. He can certainly afford it.

 

[bison13]

There are a lot of nice areas around there to live, but all the football players just happen to want to live in Martinsburg. Right. And Greenbrier East gives jobs to the parents of the basketball players they want (at the Greenbrier). Jim Justice is the coach of both the boys and girls teams (not sure if he still coaches) and buys the players he wants. He can certainly afford it.

You are confusing recruiting with being able to move to whatever school you want. Private schools don’t have boundaries so you can live in your current house and drive 45 minutes an hour 90 minutes whatever you want to get to a private school because they want you to play sports there.public schools, you still have to buy a house or living apartment there.
Public schools you still have to buy a house or live in an apartment there. The coaches at Martinsburg aren’t driving an hour down to DC to look at football players and say hey why don’t you and your parents just get the heck out of here and move 50 miles away to come play football for us. I’ve personally thought about moving out there myself because I can buy twice the amount of property or maybe even three times the amount for what it is here in Maryland, oh yeah and my son happens to be pretty good athlete too. does that mean that the football coaches are recruiting him?

If you don’t understand the difference between a family moving to a district where they completely uproot their family because that’s better economically for them versus having coaches that are private school, big a kid to come play for them, even giving them scholarship money to do so that I can’t help you at this point.

 

[bison13]

Doesn’t matter the name, they are more apt to recruit for their theater program than their athletic program.

Why won’t you give the private school‘s name?

 

[AWS1022]

You are confusing recruiting with being able to move to whatever school you want. Private schools don’t have boundaries so you can live in your current house and drive 45 minutes an hour 90 minutes whatever you want to get to a private school because they want you to play sports there.public schools, you still have to buy a house or living apartment there.
Public schools you still have to buy a house or live in an apartment there. The coaches at Martinsburg aren’t driving an hour down to DC to look at football players and say hey why don’t you and your parents just get the heck out of here and move 50 miles away to come play football for us. I’ve personally thought about moving out there myself because I can buy twice the amount of property or maybe even three times the amount for what it is here in Maryland, oh yeah and my son happens to be pretty good athlete too. does that mean that the football coaches are recruiting him?

If you don’t understand the difference between a family moving to a district where they completely uproot their family because that’s better economically for them versus having coaches that are private school, big a kid to come play for them, even giving them scholarship money to do so that I can’t help you at this point.

But not all kids actually move….they need an address, not a house. A player on my son’s baseball team used his grandmother’s address…he didn’t actually live there. And yes, he was recruited. There are tons of public school coaches who actively try to get kids to move into their area or get an address in their area. My son was recruited more by public schools than private schools. I get the whole boundaries thing and there should be a way to minimize that, but the private schools aren’t the only ones out there recruiting.

 

[AWS1022]

Why won’t you give the private school‘s name?

What difference does it make?

 

[bison13]

But not all kids actually move….they need an address, not a house. A player on my son’s baseball team used his grandmother’s address…he didn’t actually live there. And yes, he was recruited. There are tons of public school coaches who actively try to get kids to move into their area or get an address in their area. My son was recruited more by public schools than private schools. I get the whole boundaries thing and there should be a way to minimize that, but the private schools aren’t the only ones out there recruiting.

why are you the only person who believes this? Tell the names of the schools you are talking about.

 

[AWS1022]

why are you the only person who believes this? Tell the names of the schools you are talking about.

They’re not PA schools. And I believe because I saw it first hand, not listening to rumors like so many on here.

 

[Delcolion915]

It may not make any change, but these voices are getting louder and louder now in the ear of the PIAA.

 

[bison13]

They’re not PA schools. And I believe because I saw it first hand, not listening to rumors like so many on here.

Or people like me who coached in three different states and know that what I’m saying is 100% true.

 

[AWS1022]

Or people like me who coached in three different states and know that what I’m saying is 100% true.

I coached in two different states and didn’t see all this recruiting.

 

[bison13]

I coached in two different states and didn’t see all this recruiting.

or were oblivious to it.

 

[AWS1022]

or were oblivious to it.

Or didn’t see things that weren’t really there.

 

[bison13]

Or didn’t see things that weren’t really there.

congrats you have coached in the 1% of the private schools that dont recruit. Bishop Canevin has kids on their roster from 3 different states, but doesnt recruit, sure.....

You do realize that most of the schools recruit kids as eighth graders and then the ones that are age eligible. They have them repeat eighth grade to reclassify. Look at the point guard from Imani Christian. It would be a 6th year in high school next year.

 

[AWS1022]

congrats you have coached in the 1% of the private schools that dont recruit. Bishop Canevin has kids on their roster from 3 different states, but doesnt recruit, sure.....

You do realize that most of the schools recruit kids as eighth graders and then the ones that are age eligible. They have them repeat eighth grade to reclassify. Look at the point guard from Imani Christian. It would be a 6th year in high school next year.

I fully admit that some private schools recruit, but I don’t buy the statement that they all recruit. Just like I wouldn’t say all public schools recruit, but lot of them do. Do you really think little Podunct Christian school outside of Nowheresville, PA is recruiting 8th graders and getting them held back? You’re lumping all private schools in with schools like Imani Christian and that’s just not the case.

 

[bison13]

I fully admit that some private schools recruit, but I don’t buy the statement that they all recruit. Just like I wouldn’t say all public schools recruit, but lot of them do. Do you really think little Podunct Christian school outside of Nowheresville, PA is recruiting 8th graders and getting them held back? You’re lumping all private schools in with schools like Imani Christian and that’s just not the case.

No.i said 1% don’t. And yes i stand by that #. There are youth basketball and baseball organizations that have middle school showcases where they specifically bring the kids together for the private schools to have a one stop shopping experience to recruit players. I’ve gone to them just to make sure I can keep my incoming freshman from going to private school. And yes, there are almost every private school within 50 miles that’s there.

 

[AWS1022]

No.i said 1% don’t. And yes i stand by that #. There are youth basketball and baseball organizations that have middle school showcases where they specifically bring the kids together for the private schools to have a one stop shopping experience to recruit players. I’ve gone to them just to make sure I can keep my incoming freshman from going to private school. And yes, there are almost every private school within 50 miles that’s there.

Obviously it’s regional then because the areas in the three states I’ve lived in didn’t have 99% of their private schools recruiting….not even close.

 

[GregInPitt]

Saw this morning that a top recruit in BB, a guard (Junior) Donavan Carney from Butler H.S. north of Pittsburgh is transferring to a Ohio private BB powerhouse private school, Western Reserve Academy. Sad but true. So I can't understand anyone that believes Butler should have to play against private schools that recruit. Play against the schools that take your players - how much sense does that make......

 

[AWS1022]

Yes, it's regional. The "region" just happens to be the entire United States.

Or not.

 

[PurposePitch]

Or not.

Privates are constantly out there sucking players from publics. I don't understand your position. Whether it's the religious schools that then play against those same publics, or the more elite preps that play amongst themselves, it's happening everywhere.

I don't understand your motivation in lying here. Who cares if it's actually 99%, or 50%? It's still a HUGE friggin number and a HUGE problem, when you're talking about competing against each other.

It's a patently unfair system of competition. They shouldn't be forced to play against each other, especially for some title of who is the best.

It happens in PA. In NJ. In NY. In CT. In MA. In NH. These private schools recruit. And it doesn't matter if you can point out publics who are successful, or privates that don't recruit, or that suck. Completely irrelevant.

 

[bison13]

Obviously it’s regional then because the areas in the three states I’ve lived in didn’t have 99% of their private schools recruiting….not even close.

I’ve lived in 3, PA, WV, MD, and coached against teams from Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Virginia, NC, SC, Georgia, Florida on the east coast, as well as teams from Ohio Michigan, Kentucky, Indiana, in a Midwest tournament and then teams from Oregon, California, and Nevada in a tournament in California. Coaches from public schools in every single one of those states say that recruiting is a problem and it’s not just one or two private schools, but rather every single private school tries to recruit school teams.

A school that I used to coach at is currently hosting a huge girls basketball tournament here in Maryland and I’m helping with the coordination of facilities and things. Not only are there dozens of colleges here to watch these girls play but literally every private school in the state of Maryland, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Virginia is here to recruit.

 

[AWS1022]

Privates are constantly out there sucking players from publics. I don't understand your position. Whether it's the religious schools that then play against those same publics, or the more elite preps that play amongst themselves, it's happening everywhere.

I don't understand your motivation in lying here. Who cares if it's actually 99%, or 50%? It's still a HUGE friggin number and a HUGE problem, when you're talking about competing against each other.

It's a patently unfair system of competition. They shouldn't be forced to play against each other, especially for some title of who is the best.

It happens in PA. In NJ. In NY. In CT. In MA. In NH. These private schools recruit. And it doesn't matter if you can point out publics who are successful, or privates that don't recruit, or that suck. Completely irrelevant.

How am I lying? I responded to a post that said every private school recruits, which is hugely false. Then they doubled down and said not 100% but 99%, which is also hugely false. Most private schools people have never even heard of and they’re not recruiting. I don’t care if they make private schools play in their own tournament. All I’ve said is if you don’t think the good public schools are recruiting as well, then you have blinders on.

 

[AWS1022]

I’ve lived in 3, PA, WV, MD, and coached against teams from Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Virginia, NC, SC, Georgia, Florida on the east coast, as well as teams from Ohio Michigan, Kentucky, Indiana, in a Midwest tournament and then teams from Oregon, California, and Nevada in a tournament in California. Coaches from public schools in every single one of those states say that recruiting is a problem and it’s not just one or two private schools, but rather every single private school tries to recruit school teams.

A school that I used to coach at is currently hosting a huge girls basketball tournament here in Maryland and I’m helping with the coordination of facilities and things. Not only are there dozens of colleges here to watch these girls play but literally every private school in the state of Maryland, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Virginia is here to recruit.

So there are about 450 schools there just from PA? I doubt that. Also, if you see the coach from Ravenswood Christian, Parkersburg Catholic, or Wood County Christian in WV, I’ll buy you a steak dinner.

 

[bison13]

So there are about 450 schools there just from PA? I doubt that. Also, if you see the coach from Ravenswood Christian, Parkersburg Catholic, or Wood County Christian in WV, I’ll buy you a steak dinner.

Over 100. Including some from New Jersey now. Oakland Catholics here from Pittsburgh, bunch from Harrisburg and Philadelphia. The entire Baltimore and DC private league.,
And you try to make a ridiculous comment that 450 schools would be here when why would a team from Erie or Scranton or State College come down here to scout this when they have their own pipelines of every public school in that area.

I guess you’re just gonna still keep beating your drum even though you’re outnumbered 99 to one on this.

 

[AWS1022]

Over 100. Including some from New Jersey now. Oakland Catholics here from Pittsburgh, bunch from Harrisburg and Philadelphia. The entire Baltimore and DC private league.,
And you try to make a ridiculous comment that 450 schools would be here when why would a team from Erie or Scranton or State College come down here to scout this when they have their own pipelines of every public school in that area.

I guess you’re just gonna still keep beating your drum even though you’re outnumbered 99 to one on this.

Then there’s the fact that all the private schools in Erie except one don’t recruit, so they wouldn’t need to be there.

 

[bison13]

Then there’s the fact that all the private schools in Erie except one don’t recruit, so they wouldn’t need to be there.

Cathedral prep and mercyhurst. lol
Hell, even Venango county Christian recruits for their basketball team.

 

[Delcolion915]

It's almost inconceivable how anyone could argue for anything other than the schools being separated. It's sad that there are actually fools who can't see what has been in front of them for decades now.

 

[87 Penn St8]

No.i said 1% don’t. And yes i stand by that #. There are youth basketball and baseball organizations that have middle school showcases where they specifically bring the kids together for the private schools to have a one stop shopping experience to recruit players. I’ve gone to them just to make sure I can keep my incoming freshman from going to private school. And yes, there are almost every private school within 50 miles that’s there.

I was unfortunately involved with the recruitment of a future D I football player from the public high school where I teach to Malvern Prep.

Kid was a junior having a great season as a Left Tackle. Played an outstanding game versus a local powerhouse- so much so that all of the parents in the stands were yelling for holding. The veteran head coach of the team, who can bully refs, was silent.He knew.

Magically (or not) shortly after that game kid gets a phone call at home at night from a man gauging his interest to re-class and transfer. Tuition money wouldn't be an issue- he had a "benefactor."

To Malvern's credit- they have a pretty stringent Admissions process- even for recruits. I had to choose between our school and a student who asked for my help. I'm gonna go with the kid every time.

I had to fill out a pretty exhaustive questionnaire and then do a 15 minute call where I was pretty much grilled on pupils academics and character.

Kid ended up at a lower D l school, but was teammates with plenty of other Dl talent. He was indeed a missing piece for their line which had a 5 year D1 starter on it. "High School Portal."

I currently know 2 kids who have been recruited by Westtown for years. One is going

Because they are living with family members which is 100% legal and by the rules. They are almost always coming from nearby districts and escaping bad situations.

Huge difference from some wealthy kid coming from across the state or even several states away. Lives in a dorm or with ‘host parents’ they never met before.

By all accounts Aliquippa has a great coach and a great program with solid academic requirements. Kids that enroll there usually make big improvements in the education and their lives, even the ones that don’t become D1 superstars.

In Chester County the city of Coatesville routinely provided players for 3 high schools : Coatesville- a perennial powerhouse, Bishop Shanahan a Catholic school previously in West Chester, now in Downingtown, and Octorara- another powerhouse at the 2A and 3A level.

The Ville and Octorara share a border and many kids have relatives on both sides. The JV at Coatesville becomes the Varsity at Octorara- or so people say.

Is it legit? Yes. Ethical? That's in the eye of the beholder. The longtime Coach at Octorara is a good man who has changed lives...while winning basketball games.

Seems like a win-win. So be it.

 

[AWS1022]

Cathedral prep and mercyhurst. lol
Hell, even Venango county Christian recruits for their basketball team.

Mercyhurst doesn’t recruit.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I was unfortunately involved with the recruitment of a future D I football player from the public high school where I teach to Malvern Prep.

Kid was a junior having a great season as a Left Tackle. Played an outstanding game versus a local powerhouse- so much so that all of the parents in the stands were yelling for holding. The veteran head coach of the team, who can bully refs, was silent.He knew.

Magically (or not) shortly after that game kid gets a phone call at home at night from a man gauging his interest to re-class and transfer. Tuition money wouldn't be an issue- he had a "benefactor."

To Malvern's credit- they have a pretty stringent Admissions process- even for recruits. I had to choose between our school and a student who asked for my help. I'm gonna go with the kid every time.

I had to fill out a pretty exhaustive questionnaire and then do a 15 minute call where I was pretty much grilled on pupils academics and character.

Kid ended up at a lower D l school, but was teammates with plenty of other Dl talent. He was indeed a missing piece for their line which had a 5 year D1 starter on it. "High School Portal."

I currently know 2 kids who have been recruited by Westtown for years. One is going

In Chester County the city of Coatesville routinely provided players for 3 high schools : Coatesville- a perennial powerhouse, Bishop Shanahan a Catholic school previously in West Chester, now in Downingtown, and Octorara- another powerhouse at the 2A and 3A level.

The Ville and Octorara share a border and many kids have relatives on both sides. The JV at Coatesville becomes the Varsity at Octorara- or so people say.

Is it legit? Yes. Ethical? That's in the eye of the beholder. The longtime Coach at Octorara is a good man who has changed lives...while winning basketball games.

Seems like a win-win. So be it.

I was only referring to Aliquippa.

 

[87 Penn St8]

I was only referring to Aliquippa.

The Octorara situation seems similar in that kids are actually living with family- or at least have real family members/addresses to use. The sport in this case is hoops- not football.

Coatesville and Aliquippa are downtrodden former steel mill cities- with no shortage of urban issues.

A stark difference is that the Coatesville area is growing as Philly suburbia spreads. Many in the McMansions send their kids to private school. A PSU roommate's wife teaches at CASH (Coatesville Area Senior High School) which is their 11/12 building. "CHAOS" is their 9/10 building and it is known to be crazy. Basically the young folks who have behavioral issues reach the end of the line in CHAOS- making it more violent and a harder learning environment. Those with the intention to graduate get to CASH- making it a much better school.

They live in a new neighborhood that used to be farmland just over the Downingtown line in the Coatesville district. While she likes her colleagues and students, 4 of their 5 went to Shanahan. However The Ville also has its' high flyers. Another PSU buddy taught Honors and AP Chemistry in CASH and coached Freshman basketball. He loved his job until he moved into Administration. Said many times he never encountered any of the issues that the school was known for as a teacher. Then being a Principal it was pretty much all he dealt with. He is no longer in Education.

Definitely not dissing @ you Spin- just a similar situation on my end of the state that I watched from behind the Scorers table for 15 years in hoops.

Yeah- it sucks when a kid who played for one of the 3 Coatesville middle schools suddenly appears at Octorara. But in my mind if it keeps the young men in school and athletically eligible towards graduation then that seems to be part of our current high school model.

The real superstars now leave Coatesville to play at one of the basketball preps. AJ Hoggard from MSU is the latest example- he went to Huntingdon Prep in WV- where OJ Mayo played.

 

[Safety Blitz]

Mercyhurst doesn’t recruit.

Right.
And the Pope is Jewish.

 

[bison13]

Right.
And the Pope is Jewish.

Yep, they’ve probably got coaches sitting in an AAU tournament somewhere around Erie or Cleveland or Youngstown right now.