OT: Toyota Prius

[psuguy04]

I'm looking at purchasing a new car within the next month or two, before interest rates rise.

The wife wants a Prius, and I also like the vehicle.

What are the opinions of the board about the vehicle?

In doing some price searching, it looks like used ones (2010 and newer) range from $12k-$18k. New ones at the local Toyota dealers range from $22k (Prius II) to over $30k.

Can someone explain the difference between Prius II, Prius II, Prius IV and Prius V? It also looks like there's a Prius C. I thought the numbers (I, II, etc.) were just trim levels.

If the above is correct, I can't see purchasing a used Prius for $15k when I can have a brand new one for $22-23k.

What say you, board? What are your thoughts on the 2015 Prius?

 

[Tom McAndrew]

In a rush, so I'm not sure if I can fully address all your questions. The numbers (I, II, etc.) address which generation of Prius a car is. The Gen 1s were the initial offering. They were small sedans; not all that popular. Gen 2 (Prius II is the version that came out in 2004 (I think). The basic shape has remained the same in the subsequent versions, but each new version was a significant tweak to the internals, and to a lesser extent the body.

Within each version (I, II, etc.) there are several trim levels. It's a question of how many bells and whistles you want, etc.

The Prius C is somewhat different. All of the others are built on a Prius frame. The Prius C is built on a Yarus (sp?) frame. It's not very well thought of within the Prius community. It is more of a city car than the others.

The other caveat is the Prius V. That's not a new generation (meaning, not a I, II, III, etc.). It's a longer frame, with more seating and head room for the back seats, and more storage capacity. It's basically for families that need more space. It's jokingly referred to as the Prius Van, though most people couldn't tell the difference between the V and the other Gen 4 models unless they were lined up next to each other.

As for price, only you can answer what you want to spend. While gas prices are down, relative to a year ago, there still isn't a lot of flexibility in the price of the Prius. Sales of it are down compared to last year, and it's not like 2005 and 06 when you pretty much had to order one to get it, as they rarely lasted more than a few days on a lot. Still, the price has stayed pretty firm for the new cars. You'll find a lot more flexibility in the used car prices, though there's always the question of what you are buying (how was it used, what problems has it encountered, etc.)

If your wife has a commute to work that is 5 minutes or less, or the car will only be used for short distances, you'll never attain the really high MPG that is possible with the Prius. Still, you can usually get in the low 50s in the summer (I believe you're in the NE), which is better than most other cars.

Gotta run ... hope that helped.

 

[massimoManca II]

I assume you've already asked yourself "Is a hybrid the right car for the type of driving we do"

otherwise, Prius V, C etc are designations of body-style/size variations of the common Prius platform... Prius C is primarily an urban commurer - very compact.... While the Prius V is on the other end of the perspective almost micro-minivan like...
http://www.autotrader.com/research/...s-prius-c-vs-prius-v-whats-the-difference.jsp


Hybrids, Prius' in particular, are not a good fit for me therefore I despise themand people who clog the left lanes with them... hate them absolutely hate them hate hate hate hate!

 

[mcberman]

Another consideration: The Ford CMax Energi. I had a Prius and it was a great car that got great mileage. The three things I didn't like about it were: 1) the road noise was terrible on the freeway; 2) the Navi was not very helpful; and 3) it was completely not fun to drive. I am not sure if any of those mean anything to your wife but if they do, I would check out the CMax, a car I drive now.

The CMax is much nicer interior and has much less road noise. It is also way more fun to drive and is almost quick on freeway passing. It is based on a car designed in Europe so it drives much more like a European car. I like the Sync system as well. I also would prefer to drive an American car. My only problem with the CMax is the navigation screen is not as responsive as I would prefer. It also does not get the mileage that the Prius does (if you are doing a lot of freeway driving which lessens the improvement that the plug-in battery provides).

But the Prius is a great car, reliable and gets great fuel economy. Everything works and is pretty well thought out. Leasing may also be a consideration because the rate of additional technology that is going into cars these days means that a three year old car is already somewhat behind the times in fuel efficiency, build materials and safety features.

Just my $.02.

 

[massimoManca II]

^^ I hate to admit but the CMAX is a pretty appealing package... CMAX recently replaced Prius as company vehicles here and most seem pleasantly surprised...

 

[psuguy04]

In a rush, so I'm not sure if I can fully address all your questions. The numbers (I, II, etc.) address which generation of Prius a car is. The Gen 1s were the initial offering. They were small sedans; not all that popular. Gen 2 (Prius II is the version that came out in 2004 (I think). The basic shape has remained the same in the subsequent versions, but each new version was a significant tweak to the internals, and to a lesser extent the body.

Within each version (I, II, etc.) there are several trim levels. It's a question of how many bells and whistles you want, etc.

The Prius C is somewhat different. All of the others are built on a Prius frame. The Prius C is built on a Yarus (sp?) frame. It's not very well thought of within the Prius community. It is more of a city car than the others.

The other caveat is the Prius V. That's not a new generation (meaning, not a I, II, III, etc.). It's a longer frame, with more seating and head room for the back seats, and more storage capacity. It's basically for families that need more space. It's jokingly referred to as the Prius Van, though most people couldn't tell the difference between the V and the other Gen 4 models unless they were lined up next to each other.

As for price, only you can answer what you want to spend. While gas prices are down, relative to a year ago, there still isn't a lot of flexibility in the price of the Prius. Sales of it are down compared to last year, and it's not like 2005 and 06 when you pretty much had to order one to get it, as they rarely lasted more than a few days on a lot. Still, the price has stayed pretty firm for the new cars. You'll find a lot more flexibility in the used car prices, though there's always the question of what you are buying (how was it used, what problems has it encountered, etc.)

If your wife has a commute to work that is 5 minutes or less, or the car will only be used for short distances, you'll never attain the really high MPG that is possible with the Prius. Still, you can usually get in the low 50s in the summer (I believe you're in the NE), which is better than most other cars.

Gotta run ... hope that helped.

Thanks, Tom, that helps a lot.

Re: her commute and driving: The commute to/from work is less than 15 miles per day, and most of it is highway driving. So, there's not much of an advantage there with regards to a hybrid. However, in buying this, it would replace our "main" car which gets 18-20mpg for in-town driving.

She rode in her friend's Prius (not sure of the trim level, but it's definitely not a C or a V), and loved it. She comes from a "Toyota family", and it's either that or a Corolla. The difference in price between a Corolla and Prius isn't nearly as much as what I thought it was when I first began this exercise in price comparison.

Interestingly, I come from a "Ford family" and am intrigued by the CMax. I'd be open to it.......but the woman hates the way it looks. Not saying I can't sell it, but it's going to be an uphill battle.

Overall, I just can't justify paying $15k for a used 4-year-old vehicle when I can pay $22k for a brand new one.

 

[psuguy04]

^^ I hate to admit but the CMAX is a pretty appealing package... CMAX recently replaced Prius as company vehicles here and most seem pleasantly surprised...

Didn't Ford and Toyota collaborate on Hybrid technology at one point?

Or am I thinking of two other manufacturers?

Thought I recall reading that the technology in Prius vs. CMax is virtually the same.

 

[tboyer]

We have a Prius C. It's a great super compact city car. But I would not get one unless you live in a city and you depend on parallel parking. The regular Prius has so much more room, is better on the highway, gets the same mileage and only costs 3-4k more than the C. The C can fit into the spaces that nobody else can fit into -- that's why we like it.

Priuses are not fun to drive at all -- they are slugs. Some people (like my wife) hate the giant console between the two front seats for the regular Prius. I laugh every time I punch the accelerator when I need speed -- and NOTHING HAPPENS except the tiny engine revs like crazy. That is life with a Prius.

The gas savings can be great depending on how you drive, and maintenance costs are low as well. The battery and generator systems have proven incredibly reliable, and because you are using generators to brake, you wear out brake shoes every slowly. Dealer told me they typically don't need brake jobs till 80K miles which is amazing.

But frankly there really isn't a lot of difference between 40 mpg and 50 mpg. Even for someone who drives 20k miles a year, the difference between 40 and 50 will only save you $300 a year on fuel.

Another thing to keep in mind -- hybrids really do not save you much on gas for highway driving. Where they save you is in city, stop and go and traffic jam driving. If most of your mileage is highway road trips, the hybrid might save you only 3-4 mpg which does not pencil out in terms of the additional cost of a hybrid.

So I would look at non-hybrids that get you in the high 30s and low 40s, and they are out there. The Mazda 6 gets close to 40 on the highway and is a phenomenal car.

Again, we love our Prius C but we have a special need for a super-compact city car. If it weren't for the need to parallel park in a neighborhood where parking space is at a premium, I'd own something else.

 

[TTman]

10 year Prius owner. Great car in many respects, not the least of which is 45+ mpg. Contrary to above post, I often get 50 mpg on highway driving....will drop off some as you go above 70 mph. In order to get the advertised mpg around town, you do need to learn how to drive a hybrid. You need to get your foot off the gas every chance you get, because the engine shuts off as soon as you do. If you see a stop coming up, let the car coast up to it. if you are going down a hill, foot off the gas! It really makes a difference. I consistently get 5-10 mpg more than my wife does because I pay attention to this.
Very roomy for a compact/mid-size car. Travel with 4 adults is not a problem. Hybrid gives you more power than you might expect, mostly due to torque from electric motor. Have not had any "failures"...just routine maintenance. My only downside is the handling. Quite a bit of understeer. If this car is "transportation", not a problem....if you want a "drivers vehicle", buy something German! Other downside: traction is not great in snow...but I only run all-season tires, probably be much better if you put snows on it. All said, the Prius is a great value. If you tend to keep cars for a long period of time, I would buy new.

 

[pmjoe]

Thanks, Tom, that helps a lot.

Re: her commute and driving: The commute to/from work is less than 15 miles per day, and most of it is highway driving. So, there's not much of an advantage there with regards to a hybrid. However, in buying this, it would replace our "main" car which gets 18-20mpg for in-town driving.

She rode in her friend's Prius (not sure of the trim level, but it's definitely not a C or a V), and loved it. She comes from a "Toyota family", and it's either that or a Corolla. The difference in price between a Corolla and Prius isn't nearly as much as what I thought it was when I first began this exercise in price comparison.

Interestingly, I come from a "Ford family" and am intrigued by the CMax. I'd be open to it.......but the woman hates the way it looks. Not saying I can't sell it, but it's going to be an uphill battle.

Overall, I just can't justify paying $15k for a used 4-year-old vehicle when I can pay $22k for a brand new one.

As others have mentioned, mostly highway isn't where you'll see the benefits of the hybrid.

The C-Max is roughly the equivalent of the Prius V - only the C-Max has a slightly bigger interior, a much nicer interior and uses lithium ion batteries (Prius was NiMH but Toyota my be switching over to lithium?). There's a plug-in hybrid (Energi) option on the C-Max in addition to the standard hybrid. The plug-in hybrid might be a more efficient highway option (assuming you're well situated to plug it in), but I don't know enough about how the plug-in model works to say for sure.

My wife originally thought she'd want a Prius until she drove both, saw the interiors and really felt the C-Max was much more intuitive to drive. The Toyota dealer basically thought the Prius should just sell itself - because it's a Prius of course! So the attitude turned us both off. The Ford dealer gave us a great price, while the Toyota dealer kept dancing around about how high the demand was.

I'd also comment on a used car, if you're looking at a 2010 model, you're past half the assumed life on the hybrid batteries which could be an expensive replacement.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Didn't Ford and Toyota collaborate on Hybrid technology at one point?

They did early on (2004 or 05). The general consensus was that each company had developed similar technology on their own. However, Toyota had brought out their hybrid technology first. The belief was that Toyota threatened to sue Ford for violating their patents, and while Ford felt they could prove they had developed things on their own, their engineers and lawyers felt they were too similar to Toyota's to win a court case. So instead of spending years and a lot of money in court, they agreed to a collaboration. This was what was discussed on a lot of the hybrid blogs back in 2005, but I don't know if that's exactly what happened. They did, however, announce a collaboration pact.

She comes from a "Toyota family", and it's either that or a Corolla.

Unless price is the sole consideration, go with the Prius. You can get a basic Corolla for less, but the Prius is a much better car.

Another thing to keep in mind -- hybrids really do not save you much on gas for highway driving. Where they save you is in city, stop and go and traffic jam driving. If most of your mileage is highway road trips, the hybrid might save you only 3-4 mpg which does not pencil out in terms of the additional cost of a hybrid.

This is somewhat of a myth. It's more an issue of how you drive. If you drive 70+ mph, with the AC blasting away, then the Prius won't attain great highway MPG. However, it will do better than a comparable car driven 70+ on the highway -- more than a 3-4 MPG. I can routinely get 60-some MPG in the summer on the highway in a Prius, but I have to employ hypermiling techniques to do so. The MPG drops in the winter, unless you live in a really warm part of the US.

I consistently get 5-10 mpg more than my wife does because I pay attention to this.

Same. My wife accelerates up to red lights, jumps on the gas when the light turns green, etc., and can never get close to the MPG that I get.

Other downside: traction is not great in snow...but I only run all-season tires, probably be much better if you put snows on it.

That can be an issue, at times. Many Prius owners in the snow belt get 4 rims and snow tires from Tire Rack (or other places), and will swap with their regular tires for the winter. Others don't really mind. In areas outside of the snow belt, it's kind of hard to justify the expense for the handful of times where such tires would be helpful.

I'd also comment on a used car, if you're looking at a 2010 model, you're past half the assumed life on the hybrid batteries which could be an expensive replacement.

I don't know what the warranty was in 2010. I think it was 10 years or 100,000 miles on the battery, but I'm not certain of that. I know quite a few people that have gone far past 100,000 miles on a Prius with the main battery, without having to replace it. IMHO, that's not that big of an issue.

 

[Evan Ceg]

I've driven a Prius II (hatchback) for about 3-1/2 years. Love, love, love the gas mileage. The interior is more spacious than you'd guess for a small car. I actually get better mileage driving in the city and 'burbs than on the turnpike.

There are a couple things I don't like.

The car has significant blind spots, particularly at the back corners. Don't like the wiper bar in the middle of the back window, but I'm getting used to it. I also can't see the nose of the car from the driver's seat, which makes spacial relationships a little tricky when parking. It's a bit underpowered, which is expected in a car like this, but your driving can adjust for that.

One the whole, its virtues more than compensate for its drawbacks. I'd probably buy another.

 

[CentexLion]

Another consideration: The Ford CMax Energi. I had a Prius and it was a great car that got great mileage. The three things I didn't like about it were: 1) the road noise was terrible on the freeway; 2) the Navi was not very helpful; and 3) it was completely not fun to drive. I am not sure if any of those mean anything to your wife but if they do, I would check out the CMax, a car I drive now.

The CMax is much nicer interior and has much less road noise. It is also way more fun to drive and is almost quick on freeway passing. It is based on a car designed in Europe so it drives much more like a European car. I like the Sync system as well. I also would prefer to drive an American car. My only problem with the CMax is the navigation screen is not as responsive as I would prefer. It also does not get the mileage that the Prius does (if you are doing a lot of freeway driving which lessens the improvement that the plug-in battery provides).

But the Prius is a great car, reliable and gets great fuel economy. Everything works and is pretty well thought out. Leasing may also be a consideration because the rate of additional technology that is going into cars these days means that a three year old car is already somewhat behind the times in fuel efficiency, build materials and safety features.

Just my $.02.

The wife has a Prius. She was insistent about getting one. She goes to our ranch every day to check on the animals, and the road is all 70-85 mph highway, so the gas mileage isn't as great as she was hoping. When we go into town, with the stop and go traffic, it does real well, obviously, as it is running off battery.

The big negative is terrible blind spots. With the aerodynamic design, it is hard to see people sitting on your rear quarter panels. As mentioned by others, it is a slug driving. It is easy to maneuver in town, but I'm triple looking to make certain I do not hit a bicyclist as I'm making right turns (when they are coming from behind).

I did drive a Ford CMax in LA on a recent trip. I loved it. Great acceleration. I drove it all weekend there, back and forth to San Diego, and the gas gauge never moved. I would seriously consider that over a Prius anyday (and I have refused to buy any GM or Ford since 1984). The CMax that I drove was Electric, with gas assist (unlike our Prius, which is not electric).

Good luck.

 

[Hartzie]

All of you Prius lovers should check your man card at the door!

 

[TTman]

All of you Prius lovers should check your man card at the door!

Actually, the Prius is my wife's car.....I drive a Audi... Hard to beat the German's if you love to drive!

 

[CentexLion]

All of you Prius lovers should check your man card at the door!

Wife's car. I drive a new Nissan Titan truck. Second one in ten years. 250k miles on the first one. 15 mpg in all situations. Keeping American oil workers in business

 

[kijanalives]

Any Ford Energi and it's not even close. These are plug-in hybrids; they have all the hybrid options (brake regeneration-auto shutoff-etc) every other system offers PLUS it has a plug in battery. EV mode (electric only) can go 30 miles at any speed, depending on other car energy uses (temp-sat-entertain). Your wife can get to work and back on a full charge and barely touch the gas tank. My wife does the same and we get nearly 1000 mi between $30 fill-ups.

We have the '14 Fusion and if it weren't for me being 6-6" we'd prob have the CMax.

PS: U get a discounted energy rate at home too. In Ca, we get .10 per kW with no tiers from 7 pm - 7am. At these times we plug in AND program our laundry/dishwasher etc to run at night and we've been saving hundreds per month on our energy bill.

Car is fun to drive; Prius is a bore.

 

[kijanalives]

Just looked at my odometer...59.1 mpg for all driving. And we haven't been plugging in consistently, either.

 

[BobPSU92]

I'm looking at purchasing a new car within the next month or two, before interest rates rise.

The wife wants a Prius, and I also like the vehicle.

What are the opinions of the board about the vehicle?

In doing some price searching, it looks like used ones (2010 and newer) range from $12k-$18k. New ones at the local Toyota dealers range from $22k (Prius II) to over $30k.

Can someone explain the difference between Prius II, Prius II, Prius IV and Prius V? It also looks like there's a Prius C. I thought the numbers (I, II, etc.) were just trim levels.

If the above is correct, I can't see purchasing a used Prius for $15k when I can have a brand new one for $22-23k.

What say you, board? What are your thoughts on the 2015 Prius?

Get one. JoePa loved the Prius. That's all you need to know.

 

[massimoManca II]

All of you Prius lovers should check your man card at the door!

Man-cards are for guys with tiny phallus syndrome

 

[psuaxe70]

When I was a kid, only mothers drove automatics, so if you aren't driving a stick shift, don't tell us what men drive.

 

[john4psu]

I had a 2008 Prius for 100,000 miles and traded it in right before 100,000 because of the high resale value and for fear of the battery needing replaced one day unexpectedly after the warranty was up.. I read where that could be thousands so with my trade-in, I got a new Hyundai Elantra with a lot of extras and lowered my monthly car payment which seemed like a win-win.

I had some minor things in the interior go wrong, the console when you flipped it over would fall off as the clips wouldn't stay in place. I had the driver's side keyless entry stop working and always had to use a key manually. I loved the keyless entry feature and the backup camera. Toyota's standards falling is what I attributed it to. I had a Corolla for 229,000 miles and never had a major problem and very few minor ones.

The Prius seemed hard on tires as it seemed like I couldn't get past 30,000 miles on a set and the traction was terrible in snow and I would put on winter tires as a result.

I average nearly 47 mpg for the life of the car and with all the hills down here that was pretty good. In summer I would exceed 50 mpg but around 40 mpg in winter. I do miss the gas mileage. I had some tanks of gas average over 60 mpg.

 

[T J]

Several years ago, asked a sales rep about the payback time on a new hybrid. He said there isn't a payback.

Said - When you add the additional upfront costs and lifetime maintenance costs, the payback was around 12 years. Since the average time people own cars is far less, for most people, they would never see a financial benefit. Ie... From a practical standpoint... No payback.

Of course we all know...
Times change.
Technology advances.

Subsidies don't reduce costs, they just transfer the burden. So, it pays to look at the unsubsidized values.

If we look beyond subsidizes at the actual costs, the question still remains about the payback time. Interested in any updated estimates, if anyone has one. Thanks in advance.

 

[mdahmus]

Several years ago, asked a sales rep about the payback time on a new hybrid. He said there isn't a payback.

Said - When you add the additional upfront costs and lifetime maintenance costs, the payback was around 12 years. Since the average time people own cars is far less, for most people, they would never see a financial benefit. Ie... From a practical standpoint... No payback.

Of course we all know...
Times change.
Technology advances.

Subsidies don't reduce costs, they just transfer the burden. So, it pays to look at the unsubsidized values.

If we look beyond subsidizes at the actual costs, the question still remains about the payback time. Interested in any updated estimates, if anyone has one. Thanks in advance.

Payback time is nonsense. There's no exact gas-only version of the Prius to compare to (unlike cars like the Civic Hybrid vs. regular Civic), so it depends on whether you'd have otherwise needed a Camry (bigger than Prius) or Corolla (much smaller). When we ran our last comparison, admittedly this was in 2008, it took about a year to beat the Camry at $2.50 gas IIRC. Corolla would have taken far longer, but was too small for us.

 

[psuguy04]

Payback time is nonsense. There's no exact gas-only version of the Prius to compare to (unlike cars like the Civic Hybrid vs. regular Civic), so it depends on whether you'd have otherwise needed a Camry (bigger than Prius) or Corolla (much smaller). When we ran our last comparison, admittedly this was in 2008, it took about a year to beat the Camry at $2.50 gas IIRC. Corolla would have taken far longer, but was too small for us.

How does the Prius compare interior space-wise to a Corolla and Camry?

FWIW, I'm not necessarily looking at this as an investment to save gas. She likes her friend's vehicle, and I think the car looks cool. I've never been inside one, yet, and she's never driven one. Neither of us are wholly opposed to a Corolla or Camry.

When the wife first mentioned this to me, I scoffed at it--I thought the cost difference was too much. She drove a Corolla, and a friend of mine just recently picked up a new one (a very nice car, by the way). I was thinking that's the direction we'd go. But, a new Corolla seems to be in the 17-19k range, and a new Prius is 21-23k. So, for that price difference....in my mind, it's negligible. I'm not as concerned with "making up the cost", because it's not about that. I see it as driving a neat looking car, and saving a few bucks on gas week to week. Heck, my current vehicle is a V8.......so we'd have quite the contrast.

 

[mdahmus]

How does the Prius compare interior space-wise to a Corolla and Camry?

FWIW, I'm not necessarily looking at this as an investment to save gas. She likes her friend's vehicle, and I think the car looks cool. I've never been inside one, yet, and she's never driven one. Neither of us are wholly opposed to a Corolla or Camry.

When the wife first mentioned this to me, I scoffed at it--I thought the cost difference was too much. She drove a Corolla, and a friend of mine just recently picked up a new one (a very nice car, by the way). I was thinking that's the direction we'd go. But, a new Corolla seems to be in the 17-19k range, and a new Prius is 21-23k. So, for that price difference....in my mind, it's negligible. I'm not as concerned with "making up the cost", because it's not about that. I see it as driving a neat looking car, and saving a few bucks on gas week to week. Heck, my current vehicle is a V8.......so we'd have quite the contrast.

I have 2 previous-generation Prius cars (2004 and 2008). Interior space is almost Camry; far greater than Corolla of those generations. I've only been in the 2009-now Prius a couple of times so wouldn't judge. The ride and interior quality is going to be more Corolla than Camry though the Prius' heavier weight sometimes makes up for it.

The real win for the Prius is in versatility. Back seat up and it's a very large compact car (we've carried 5 people no problem; rear leg room is extraordinary for its size) with a normal sized cargo area (hatch space similar to trunk). Back seat down and it's basically a station wagon with a huge cargo space. Front passenger seat gets nicely flat too. Have hauled an amazing amount of stuff that way. (A big rain barrel from the city fit in there with the hatch completely closed. Have hauled away about 400 pounds of cut tree limbs. A whole sheet of plywood (cut into 3 pieces, but one was full-length). Camping stuff for me and my son for a weekend.).

I basically use the 2004 as my daily commuter and a yard work mule (have to carry mower and other tools over to a house we rent out when I do the yardwork over there - occasional). Couldn't carry what I do in a normal car with trunk for sure. Still average about 41-42 mpg (dealer wants to do a tune-up for a couple more mpg back, I don't think it's worth the trouble). Have probably lost a couple mpg to that, a couple more to the age of the car, but the big drop was when they went 10% ethanol locally - lost an immediate 5 mpg from that - at that time a few years ago I was still getting 52 most tanks.

 

[T J]

Payback time is nonsense. There's no exact gas-only version of the Prius to compare to (unlike cars like the Civic Hybrid vs. regular Civic), so it depends on whether you'd have otherwise needed a Camry (bigger than Prius) or Corolla (much smaller). When we ran our last comparison, admittedly this was in 2008, it took about a year to beat the Camry at $2.50 gas IIRC. Corolla would have taken far longer, but was too small for us.

But what about battery replacement costs? Granted, some companies may be much better than others in this area.

Out of the shop, the back of the envelope calculations looked great. Saw what looked like big savings. That was based on projected mileage and gas costs at that time, which were higher than today's prices.

So, I asked the dealer. My comment was about keeping the car for say... 100,000 increments or at least 200,000 miles.

Projected battery replacement costs, added on to the upfront premium, were the big cost downers at that time. Those costs turned what looked like a good deal, based on better mileage, into a deal that would be a net negative, for most people.

Good to hear some positive feedback from a poster who sold before the batteries had to be replaced. Is it like playing "musical chairs," where overtime, most players get stuck when their chair gets pulled away... In this case, owners get stuck when their batteries get pulled away?

Appreciate the feedback.

 

[mdahmus]

But what about battery replacement costs? Granted, some companies may be much better than others in this area.

Out of the shop, the back of the envelope calculations looked great. Saw what looked like big savings. That was based on projected mileage and gas costs at that time, which were higher than today's prices.

So, I asked the dealer. My comment was about keeping the car for say... 100,000 increments or at least 200,000 miles.

Projected battery replacement costs, added on to the upfront premium, were the big cost downers at that time. Those costs turned what looked like a good deal, based on better mileage, into a deal that would be a net negative, for most people.

Good to hear some positive feedback from a poster who sold before the batteries had to be replaced. Is it like playing "musical chairs," where overtime, most players get stuck when their chair gets pulled away... In this case, owners get stuck when their batteries get pulled away?

Appreciate the feedback.

Battery replacement is FUD. At least for everybody except Civic Hybrid owners. Honda really messed up there. Ford hasn't sold enough vehicles to be absolutely sure but best guess is they ended up more like Toyota.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...brid-battery-reliability-gets-worse/index.htm

The generation Prius BEFORE mine is seeing a couple percent per year battery replacements needed now. Those cars are 15 years old now! There's still cabs from my generation running strong (many hundreds of thousands of miles by now).

 

[jj410]

How does the Prius compare interior space-wise to a Corolla and Camry?

FWIW, I'm not necessarily looking at this as an investment to save gas. She likes her friend's vehicle, and I think the car looks cool. I've never been inside one, yet, and she's never driven one. Neither of us are wholly opposed to a Corolla or Camry.

When the wife first mentioned this to me, I scoffed at it--I thought the cost difference was too much. She drove a Corolla, and a friend of mine just recently picked up a new one (a very nice car, by the way). I was thinking that's the direction we'd go. But, a new Corolla seems to be in the 17-19k range, and a new Prius is 21-23k. So, for that price difference....in my mind, it's negligible. I'm not as concerned with "making up the cost", because it's not about that. I see it as driving a neat looking car, and saving a few bucks on gas week to week. Heck, my current vehicle is a V8.......so we'd have quite the contrast.

.
Looks are in the eyes of the beholder, but personally I don't like the Prius styling..
Judging by specs alone, I think 2015 Camry is a better car.
Camry has lots more pickup, nicer interior, similar pricing.
Camry has more overall interior passenger space, though Prius more flexible for cargo.
Prius has better gas mileage.
I would daresay only the V is at all comparable to Camry but at a higher price and much different styling.
(FWIW, CR rates all but Prius C as recommended: XLE 87, Prius Four 75, Prius V Three 73, Prius C Two 55. All have very high reliability and the V has the highest customer satisfaction rating.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...?trims=12769-370159_12773-370305_12842-372827

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Good to hear some positive feedback from a poster who sold before the batteries had to be replaced. Is it like playing "musical chairs," where overtime, most players get stuck when their chair gets pulled away... In this case, owners get stuck when their batteries get pulled away?

TJ, you're inventing an issue where one doesn't exist. It makes no more sense to worry about battery replacement costs in payback calculations than it would to look at engine replacement costs in a non-Prius. Both are events that happen very rarely, and are non-factors when purchasing a new car.

The main online Prius communities have kept unofficial stats on battery replacements, and they are really, really low. They also have gotten access to Toyota's official reports on battery replacement rates. I don't recall the exact number, and don't have time to look for it, but the rate was in the low single digits for under 200,000 miles of driving.

In addition, the costs of battery replacement drop each year. This is a combination of more new batteries being available, and a large supply of used batteries from cars that were totaled. When the Gen 2 first came out, in 2004, it was quite an undertaking to get a replacement battery, as pretty much every one available was being used in the production of new cars. A decade later, most auto shops could get a replacement the same day from their distributors.

 

[dmdpsu]

Go with a Camry. It's better overall, best selling vehicle for a reason. Go with the Hybrid. 40 miles/gallon and just overall a better car than the Prius.
Bought one for my daughter. Loved it so much, I bought one for myself. We test drove a bunch of other cars before we went with the Camry, including some higher end vehicles. Camry drove the best and had best overall features. Also read consumer reports.

 

[mdahmus]

Go with a Camry. It's better overall, best selling vehicle for a reason. Go with the Hybrid. 40 miles/gallon and just overall a better car than the Prius.
Bought one for my daughter. Loved it so much, I bought one for myself. We test drove a bunch of other cars before we went with the Camry, including some higher end vehicles. Camry drove the best and had best overall features. Also read consumer reports.

My old officemate bought a Camry hybrid and really liked it - but then you do fall prey to the 'payback' calculations, and they're not good in that car. If your main interest is drive quality, you have no interest in cargo versatility, and you want to hedge against, say, $5/gallon gas, it might be a good choice. For me, the Ford Fusion hybrid is a better choice given those metrics.

 

[Hartzie]

Man-cards are for guys with tiny phallus syndrome

Tree huggers and pu**ies drive Prius'.

 

[jj410]

Go with a Camry. It's better overall, best selling vehicle for a reason. Go with the Hybrid. 40 miles/gallon and just overall a better car than the Prius.
Bought one for my daughter. Loved it so much, I bought one for myself. We test drove a bunch of other cars before we went with the Camry, including some higher end vehicles. Camry drove the best and had best overall features. Also read consumer reports.

Issue with Ford is reliability, according to CR.
Of course, test driving the car is usually what decides - ratings and theory tend to go out the window when you actually experience the car.

 

[psuguy04]

But what about battery replacement costs? Granted, some companies may be much better than others in this area.

Out of the shop, the back of the envelope calculations looked great. Saw what looked like big savings. That was based on projected mileage and gas costs at that time, which were higher than today's prices.

So, I asked the dealer. My comment was about keeping the car for say... 100,000 increments or at least 200,000 miles.

Projected battery replacement costs, added on to the upfront premium, were the big cost downers at that time. Those costs turned what looked like a good deal, based on better mileage, into a deal that would be a net negative, for most people.

Good to hear some positive feedback from a poster who sold before the batteries had to be replaced. Is it like playing "musical chairs," where overtime, most players get stuck when their chair gets pulled away... In this case, owners get stuck when their batteries get pulled away?

Appreciate the feedback.

What about timing belt replacements? What about transmissions? What about torque converters? All can be costly. The costs to replace the battery is the least of my concerns.

 

[psuguy04]

.
Looks are in the eyes of the beholder, but personally I don't like the Prius styling..
Judging by specs alone, I think 2015 Camry is a better car.
Camry has lots more pickup, nicer interior, similar pricing.
Camry has more overall interior passenger space, though Prius more flexible for cargo.
Prius has better gas mileage.
I would daresay only the V is at all comparable to Camry but at a higher price and much different styling.
(FWIW, CR rates all but Prius C as recommended: XLE 87, Prius Four 75, Prius V Three 73, Prius C Two 55. All have very high reliability and the V has the highest customer satisfaction rating.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...?trims=12769-370159_12773-370305_12842-372827

Camry is a great car--I've had the chance to drive many iterations of it over the years, and each generation seems to be solidly built. I personally wouldn't buy the hybrid version, but, the 4-cylinder is an option I'd consider. Again though, getting the wife to consider anything but a Prius in our case is going to be a tough sell.

Overall, I'm very impressed with the reviews I've read about the Prius so far. Each site common concerns (blind spots, acceleration, road noise), but the reliability and satisfaction all seem to be there in nearly every case.

The way we make decisions.....if we feel very strongly about something, we kind of each have "veto" power and the other usually backs down if there are solid reasons to do so. I started out this process looking for any/all reasons to put my foot down and give a definite no to the Prius, but I can't find any at all. Not sure we'll have the time to test drive within the next week or two, but we'll definitely do so very soon.

 

[mdahmus]

Camry is a great car--I've had the chance to drive many iterations of it over the years, and each generation seems to be solidly built. I personally wouldn't buy the hybrid version, but, the 4-cylinder is an option I'd consider. Again though, getting the wife to consider anything but a Prius in our case is going to be a tough sell.

Overall, I'm very impressed with the reviews I've read about the Prius so far. Each site common concerns (blind spots, acceleration, road noise), but the reliability and satisfaction all seem to be there in nearly every case.

The way we make decisions.....if we feel very strongly about something, we kind of each have "veto" power and the other usually backs down if there are solid reasons to do so. I started out this process looking for any/all reasons to put my foot down and give a definite no to the Prius, but I can't find any at all. Not sure we'll have the time to test drive within the next week or two, but we'll definitely do so very soon.

Prius acceleration is a typical complaint but mostly BS. If you do city driving, it has more power than you're going to get out of most small cars due to the torque from the electric motor. Highway driving, you'll notice a lack of power compared to a Camry for sure.

Basically, 0-30 it feels like it has a LOT of power. 30-60 it's OK by midsize car standards. Accelerating from, let's say, 60-80 on the highway to pass somebody, it definitely feels like an econobox. But it's not like you can't get up to 90 to pass somebody on a Texas highway (I do and have).

 

[psuguy04]

Prius acceleration is a typical complaint but mostly BS. If you do city driving, it has more power than you're going to get out of most small cars due to the torque from the electric motor. Highway driving, you'll notice a lack of power compared to a Camry for sure.

Basically, 0-30 it feels like it has a LOT of power. 30-60 it's OK by midsize car standards. Accelerating from, let's say, 60-80 on the highway to pass somebody, it definitely feels like an econobox. But it's not like you can't get up to 90 to pass somebody on a Texas highway (I do and have).

Gotcha--thanks for the input. As long as it's not like the old Dodge K cars, I think all will be well with us. Sadly, yes, I had one of those--Robin's egg blue too.

My biggest concerns are differences in blindspots and braking. Having driven various large vehicles/vans over the years, I'm used to not being able to see and having to crane your neck all around. She's never driven much outside of a Corolla (again, a Toyota family), so I'm interested to see how she feels.

 

[massimoManca II]

Tree huggers and pu**ies drive Prius'.

get back in your Camaro, you mouthbreather

 

[T J]

TJ, you're inventing an issue where one doesn't exist.

Nonsense Tom. I didn't invent an issue. I reported what was laid out at an auto dealership. The event happened and at the time the numbers they used were as posted earlier. This was about their own vehicles, so they presumably knew their own costs and projections, at that time.

Appreciate your info, but you are flat out wrong about "making up an issue." There's no need for that sort of comment, in a discussion about auto options and their life-cycle costs.