Our Passing Game vs ND's

[fastlax16]

Maybe I'm missing something but the constant knock on us from all of the talking heads is our passing game and specifically WRs. Surprised to see how much better our stats are that Notre Dame's in basically every passing category minus interceptions (Drew has thrown 1 more than Riley)

TDS per game. 2 vs 1.5
YDS per game. 234.1 vs 189.1
YDS per attempt. 8.5 vs 6.9

Their number 1 receiver has 37 receptions for 458 yards and 3 TDs.
Their number 2 has 29/359/1.

Trey Wallace is 46/723/4 and Omari Evans is 21/415/5....

Comparing Tight Ends. Warren is 98/1158/8

vs their #1 34/311/3

If we can't win a title with our WRs I'm not what to think about theirs.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Maybe I'm missing something but the constant knock on us from all of the talking heads is our passing game and specifically WRs. Surprised to see how much better our stats are that Notre Dame's in basically every passing category minus interceptions (Drew has thrown 1 more than Riley)

TDS per game. 2 vs 1.5
YDS per game. 234.1 vs 189.1
YDS per attempt. 8.5 vs 6.9

Their number 1 receiver has 37 receptions for 458 yards and 3 TDs.
Their number 2 has 29/359/1.

Trey Wallace is 46/723/4 and Omari Evans is 21/415/5....

Comparing Tight Ends. Warren is 98/1158/8

vs their #1 34/311/3

If we can't win a title with our WRs I'm not what to think about theirs.

Our WRs can't get open against good competition which is why we use our TE so much.

No idea about ND and any perceived hype.

 

[fastlax16]

Our WRs can't get open against good competition which is why we use our TE so much.

No idea about ND and any perceived hype.

just saying the stats show theirs are worse, and they don’t have a Tyler Warren.

 

[mgkpsu]

just saying the stats show theirs are worse, and they don’t have a Tyler Warren.

And their schedule was easier.

 

[bdgan]

Our WRs can't get open against good competition which is why we use our TE so much.

Agree 100% but I also think there are times Allar only looks for Warren.

 

[bdgan]

Maybe I'm missing something but the constant knock on us from all of the talking heads is our passing game and specifically WRs. Surprised to see how much better our stats are that Notre Dame's in basically every passing category minus interceptions (Drew has thrown 1 more than Riley)

TDS per game. 2 vs 1.5
YDS per game. 234.1 vs 189.1
YDS per attempt. 8.5 vs 6.9

Their number 1 receiver has 37 receptions for 458 yards and 3 TDs.
Their number 2 has 29/359/1.

Trey Wallace is 46/723/4 and Omari Evans is 21/415/5....

Comparing Tight Ends. Warren is 98/1158/8

vs their #1 34/311/3

If we can't win a title with our WRs I'm not what to think about theirs.

I think it's going to depend on how much time Allar has to throw. I think the amount of time Allar has to throw depends on our ability to run. I don't think we can simply run between the tackles like we did vs SMU and Boise. We'll have to set up the run by keeping ND off balance with the pass. IMO that means getting Singleton more involved.

I also liked how we opened up with a pass to Reynolds. I'm surprised that we had success with that but never went back to it.

 

[bvillebaron]

Agree 100% but I also think there are times Allar only looks for Warren.

Allar threw two dimes to Evans and Wallace which weren’t caught. Could be wrong but I think there 6 or 7 drops against Boise.

 

[RickinDayton]

Allar threw two dimes to Evans and Wallace which weren’t caught. Could be wrong but I think there 6 or 7 drops against Boise.

That has been a problem all year. That can't happen against ND. Points will be at a premium.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

Maybe I'm missing something but the constant knock on us from all of the talking heads is our passing game and specifically WRs. Surprised to see how much better our stats are that Notre Dame's in basically every passing category minus interceptions (Drew has thrown 1 more than Riley)

TDS per game. 2 vs 1.5
YDS per game. 234.1 vs 189.1
YDS per attempt. 8.5 vs 6.9

Their number 1 receiver has 37 receptions for 458 yards and 3 TDs.
Their number 2 has 29/359/1.

Trey Wallace is 46/723/4 and Omari Evans is 21/415/5....

Comparing Tight Ends. Warren is 98/1158/8

vs their #1 34/311/3

If we can't win a title with our WRs I'm not what to think about have better playe4s at: QB, RB, WR, TE, DE, OL,,. I do not see how they how they beat us. Our OL is much more effective.

 

[LandoComando]

Allar threw two dimes to Evans and Wallace which weren’t caught. Could be wrong but I think there 6 or 7 drops against Boise.

There were "officially 6" which doesn't count the bad throw to Warren that he could/should have caught

 

[LandoComando]

If we can't win a title with our WRs I'm not what to think about theirs.

Scheme
Stats are often misleading. Notre Dame relies on a quick passing game, their receivers are good route runners with good hands--they don't have many verticals threats.
Our receivers have better speed but have repeatedly shown an inability to beat tight man (Gray holds more than anyone on Ohio State held us) and are completely lost on zone. The drops are absurd. Not Georgia-level bad but absurd.
Also, I don't think anyone has said ND "can win a title" I'd wager about 90% of people think Ohio State is winning--maybe more.


Adding--Gray will likely follow Wallace everywhere he goes which means Warren will likely be bracketed and Evans, Clifford or Fleming will have to do something against tight man coverage--that's the concern. I'm hoping we find a way to get Singleton involved in the pass game because...otherwise we're taking 8 shots deep to Evans and hoping for the best.

 

[bcspsu]

Scheme
Stats are often misleading. Notre Dame relies on a quick passing game, their receivers are good route runners with good hands--they don't have many verticals threats.
Our receivers have better speed but have repeatedly shown an inability to beat tight man (Gray holds more than anyone on Ohio State held us) and are completely lost on zone. The drops are absurd. Not Georgia-level bad but absurd.
Also, I don't think anyone has said ND "can win a title"
I'd wager about 90% of people think Ohio State is winning--maybe more.

I still don’t understand why the receivers either can’t find openings where they just can sit and wait for a throw and run after the catch, or Kotelnicki just doesn’t have those routes in his playbook. It just seems that the pass plays designed for the receivers take too long to develop.

 

[LandoComando]

I still don’t understand why the receivers either can’t find openings where they just can sit and wait for a throw and run after the catch, or Kotelnicki just doesn’t have those routes in his playbook. It just seems that the pass plays designed for the receivers take too long to develop.

Kotelnicki's offense is centered around producing big plays and pulling defenders away from the box to open up the run game
I'm not a huge fan of our scheme but WAY better than last year so I'm just trusting the process

 

[cntblvitsbutter]

From the little I've seen of ND, they don't seem to beat themselves

Scheme
Stats are often misleading. Notre Dame relies on a quick passing game, their receivers are good route runners with good hands--they don't have many verticals threats.
Our receivers have better speed but have repeatedly shown an inability to beat tight man (Gray holds more than anyone on Ohio State held us) and are completely lost on zone. The drops are absurd. Not Georgia-level bad but absurd.
Also, I don't think anyone has said ND "can win a title" I'd wager about 90% of people think Ohio State is winning--maybe more.


Adding--Gray will likely follow Wallace everywhere he goes which means Warren will likely be bracketed and Evans, Clifford or Fleming will have to do something against tight man coverage--that's the concern. I'm hoping we find a way to get Singleton involved in the pass game because...otherwise we're taking 8 shots deep to Evans and hoping for the best.

Reynolds could also play a bigger role. He had 2 of the 13 catches by Lions receivers against Boise and looked comfortable doing it.

 

[bcspsu]

From the little I've seen of ND, they don't seem to beat themselves


Reynolds could also play a bigger role. He had 2 of the 13 catches by Lions receivers against Boise and looked comfortable doing it.

He definitely should be used more, especially in the middle of the field; he’s a match up nightmare. I’m looking forward to watching him develop as he grows into his body and adds some bulk.

 

[LandoComando]

From the little I've seen of ND, they don't seem to beat themselves


Reynolds could also play a bigger role. He had 2 of the 13 catches by Lions receivers against Boise and looked comfortable doing it.

I'd love to see him involved more--he was only on the field for 10 snaps though. I don't see much of a change now

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

ND has arguably the best Pass D in the nation. They have allowed the lowest Competition Percentage in the nation, 50% and only 167 ypg. It is a primarily man cover schemes "shutdown" defense.

PSU's Pass Defense is a bit Jekyll & Hyde because its base formation is matchup zone schemes with more of a "bend but don't break" prevent flavor and is susceptible against QBs that can get the ball out quick with accuracy... and are a threat with their feet.

 

[lazydave841]

ND has arguably the best Pass D in the nation

Greatly assisted by playing a who's who of "not very good passing offenses."

The best one? USC. Threw for 360 yards on them. Scored 35 pts. Lost primarily because of 2 pick 6s.

Next? Georgia WITH BECK. With Stockton, not as dangerous. 1st start. Playoff environment. It ended exactly as well as one would have expected.

After that, Indiana. Most have figured out that they were built on the back of the broken.

Essentially, it's similar to our top ranked rush defense last year. We dominated the weaker teams and struggled with the 2 or 3 best ones. ND is the same way.

I think we will be able to pass on them. If we can run, that will be the key.

 

[fastlax16]

Scheme
Stats are often misleading. Notre Dame relies on a quick passing game, their receivers are good route runners with good hands--they don't have many verticals threats.
Our receivers have better speed but have repeatedly shown an inability to beat tight man (Gray holds more than anyone on Ohio State held us) and are completely lost on zone. The drops are absurd. Not Georgia-level bad but absurd.
Also, I don't think anyone has said ND "can win a title" I'd wager about 90% of people think Ohio State is winning--maybe more.


Adding--Gray will likely follow Wallace everywhere he goes which means Warren will likely be bracketed and Evans, Clifford or Fleming will have to do something against tight man coverage--that's the concern. I'm hoping we find a way to get Singleton involved in the pass game because...otherwise we're taking 8 shots deep to Evans and hoping for the best.

So they run shorter, quicker routes with wide receivers who have better hands and still have a lower completion percentage than we do…. Something does not add up there…

 

[PSUNYGNYY]

So they run shorter, quicker routes with wide receivers who have better hands and still have a lower completion percentage than we do…. Something does not add up there…

Don’t you know Notre Dame’s WRs are so much better than ours. Statistics are meaningless they measure nothing.

 

[NittanyLionRoar]

Landon Tengwall’s new video shows the weakness for us is going to be against the blitz. Apparently Allar struggled to set the protections correctly against Boise St and ND blitzes more than they do. Also, with the lack of quick routes we ran, I’m a little worried our offense plays right into ND’s hands.

 

[ryoder1]

I still don’t understand why the receivers either can’t find openings where they just can sit and wait for a throw and run after the catch, or Kotelnicki just doesn’t have those routes in his playbook. It just seems that the pass plays designed for the receivers take too long to develop.

The WRs getting open is not what is going to win us this game. We don't have to play perfectly. Our O-line needs to play really well. We need to be able to run block. Pick up their blitzes or at least utilize Singleton as a receiver to counteract the blitz but also as a change of pace to running.

We need to rely on Warren. He is a first down machine, almost 100 catches. They don't have an answer. Also, leverage his superior blocking skills and as a decoy for Reynolds or Dinkins.

Most important players on offense are the O-Line, Allar of course, Warren, Nick and Kaytron. Then Wallace, Evans and Clifford. We don't need the WRs doing much of anything and we still can win. We should take a deep shot to Omari once our ground game has loosened them up a bit.

 

[bvillebaron]

Landon Tengwall’s new video shows the weakness for us is going to be against the blitz. Apparently Allar struggled to set the protections correctly against Boise St and ND blitzes more than they do. Also, with the lack of quick routes we ran, I’m a little worried our offense plays right into ND’s hands.

View embedded media

Then Boise did Penn State a huge favor in preparing for ND’s blitz. As the old saying goes: live by the blitz, die by the blitz. Ask ASU on its blitz on 4th and 12 in OT

 

[LandoComando]

So they run shorter, quicker routes with wide receivers who have better hands and still have a lower completion percentage than we do…. Something does not add up there…

Leonard's inaccurate

 

[LandoComando]

Landon Tengwall’s new video shows the weakness for us is going to be against the blitz. Apparently Allar struggled to set the protections correctly against Boise St and ND blitzes more than they do. Also, with the lack of quick routes we ran, I’m a little worried our offense plays right into ND’s hands.

View embedded media

The video also talks nonstop about how great Allar was...did not notice that or skip that part?

 

[jjw165]

Landon Tengwall’s new video shows the weakness for us is going to be against the blitz. Apparently Allar struggled to set the protections correctly against Boise St and ND blitzes more than they do. Also, with the lack of quick routes we ran, I’m a little worried our offense plays right into ND’s hands.

View embedded media

Boise didn’t get one sack with four down linemen which is good. We have to figure out a better way to pick up the blitz and/or throw quickly to a hot receiver. They had three sacks blitzing. It’s our Achilles heel on offense.

 

[TheWizardofCamelot]

ND has arguably the best Pass D in the nation. They have allowed the lowest Competition Percentage in the nation, 50% and only 167 ypg. It is a primarily man cover schemes "shutdown" defense.

PSU's Pass Defense is a bit Jekyll & Hyde because its base formation is matchup zone schemes with more of a "bend but don't break" prevent flavor and is susceptible against QBs that can get the ball out quick with accuracy... and are a threat with their feet.

Statistically speaking, they have the #2 pass defense in the country. With that said, what potent passing attack have they faced? NIU? Service academies? Georgia with a backup qb? Their schedule is littered with trash passing teams, and honestly trash teams in general.

Now I’m not saying they don’t have a good defense, it’s very good. But at this point in the year I’ve started to notice that unbalanced scheduling/conferences mean you can throw these metrics out the window. ND has a solid back end and their LBs are very good. Their DL is undersized and has been susceptible to the run, and they’re about to face the best OL/RBs they’ve seen all year.

 

[bdgan]

Allar threw two dimes to Evans and Wallace which weren’t caught. Could be wrong but I think there 6 or 7 drops against Boise.

Warren also dropped a pass or two that he normally catches.

Wallace and Evans are both good WRs except for their ability to catch balls in traffic. Either they aren't strong enough, tough enough, or confident enough to come down with some of those passes. Remember the OSU game where Wallace had the TD pass in his hands but the OSU defender took it away for an interception?

 

[LandoComando]

Statistically speaking, they have the #2 pass defense in the country. With that said, what potent passing attack have they faced? NIU? Service academies? Georgia with a backup qb? Their schedule is littered with trash passing teams, and honestly trash teams in general.

Now I’m not saying they don’t have a good defense, it’s very good. But at this point in the year I’ve started to notice that unbalanced scheduling/conferences mean you can throw these metrics out the window. ND has a solid back end and their LBs are very good. Their DL is undersized and has been susceptible to the run, and they’re about to face the best OL/RBs they’ve seen all year.

A&M, USC and Indiana all have pretty good passing offense off the top of my head
I agree that stats are misleading but ND plays tons of man defense--we struggle against man defense--it's not in our favor--doesn't mean we can't win

 

[ryoder1]

Statistically speaking, they have the #2 pass defense in the country. With that said, what potent passing attack have they faced? NIU? Service academies? Georgia with a backup qb? Their schedule is littered with trash passing teams, and honestly trash teams in general.

Now I’m not saying they don’t have a good defense, it’s very good. But at this point in the year I’ve started to notice that unbalanced scheduling/conferences mean you can throw these metrics out the window. ND has a solid back end and their LBs are very good. Their DL is undersized and has been susceptible to the run, and they’re about to face the best OL/RBs they’ve seen all year.

They have no one to match up with Warren. Georgia had Delp I think is his name. Totally different stratosphere with Warren. Our O-Line plays well and Kaytron plus Nick can pound out yards and I like our chances a lot.

 

[scrivener]

Warren also dropped a pass or two that he normally catches.

Wallace and Evans are both good WRs except for their ability to catch balls in traffic. Either they aren't strong enough, tough enough, or confident enough to come down with some of those passes. Remember the OSU game where Wallace had the TD pass in his hands but the OSU defender took it away for an interception?

Not trying to be snarky, but if a WR lacks the ability to catch balls in traffic, they aren't good then. Both are decent. But, not being able to count on them to muscle up for 50-50 balls and/or take contact and make big catches, that is a poor job of recruiting and development at that position. To get to this point with that position being average at best is quite an accomplishment.

 

[cntblvitsbutter]

Not trying to be sparky, but if a WR lacks the ability to catch balls in traffic, they aren't good then. Both are decent. But, not being able to count on them to muscle up for 50-50 balls and/or take contact and make big catches, that is a poor job of recruiting and development at that position. To get to this point with that position being average at best is quite an accomplishment.

Especially having a 5* QB that you can sell.

 

[LandoComando]

Not trying to be sparky, but if a WR lacks the ability to catch balls in traffic, they aren't good then. Both are decent. But, not being able to count on them to muscle up for 50-50 balls and/or take contact and make big catches, that is a poor job of recruiting and development at that position. To get to this point with that position being average at best is quite an accomplishment.

Correct...they have to be able to make contested catches because neither or them are good enough to beat guys badly with their route running. Evans can beat a guy team if they get caught flat footed which Boise did on his long TD but they adapted.

 

[PennState_one]

I haven’t looked at any Notre Dame fan boards, but I assume they are concerned about their negatives the same as we are. I think this game is a coin flip, but I do like our chances, to be honest. I just wish the game wasn't on a Thursday night. 😒

 

[TheWizardofCamelot]

I have a hard time calling this game a toss-up and I think the line is incorrect. Defensively, I think these teams are pretty evenly matched and if Carter is healthy, we own the most talented player argument there.

Offensively speaking, I don’t think it’s close. WRs are a wash, but we hold a significant advantage on the OL, RB, TE, and QB. If ND falls behind at all, do they think Leonard and their passing game can hang? All they do is run the ball with their RBs and QB.

 

[ryoder1]

I have a hard time calling this game a toss-up and I think the line is incorrect. Defensively, I think these teams are pretty evenly matched and if Carter is healthy, we own the most talented player argument there.

Offensively speaking, I don’t think it’s close. WRs are a wash, but we hold a significant advantage on the OL, RB, TE, and QB. If ND falls behind at all, do they think Leonard and their passing game can hang? All they do is run the ball with their RBs and QB.

Apparently people think NDs O-Line is great and will dominate our D-Line and their front 7 will completely stymie our run game. Then they blitz and we are doomed because we will never pick it up. Signed negative Nellies.

The game will be close, I have no doubt. I think we win a close one because of what you said. I think we have a better offense with multiple threats including the best TE in the game. And on defense I think we can contain Riley running as they don't have much of a passing game.

How fast is Riley? I think Rojas and Carter are faster than he is.

 

[Lion_Backer]

All they do is run the ball with their RBs and QB

Well, running the ball against us has proven to be successful way to beat us when executed by UM, IL (several years ago) and the end of the OSU game this year.

The task at hand is formidable but certainly not insurmountable. We cannot permit ND to consistently go on long scoring drives that wears down our competitive edge re quickness on defense.

The PSU representation that they have on staff is presenting an opponent that appears as an iteration of our teams from years gone by in some respects....

 

[IANit]

Well, running the ball against us has proven to be successful way to beat us when executed by UM, IL (several years ago) and the end of the OSU game this year.

The task at hand is formidable but certainly not insurmountable. We cannot permit ND to consistently go on long scoring drives that wears down our competitive edge re quickness on defense.

The PSU representation that they have on staff is presenting an opponent that appears as an iteration of our teams from years gone by in some respects....

I haven't watched much ND this year. I saw a 98-yard TD run vs Indiana, a strip sack that resulted in a short-field TD against Georgia, and missed the long TD return coming out of the half against Georgia. They're opportunistic and well-coached. I doubt that any of those 3 scores happen against this Penn State team. We have not given up the big play very often or beaten ourselves. They will likely have to drive the field to score. They were unable to do that against Georgia other than FGs. We just played a team that runs as well as anyone, and they were shut down.

 

[fastlax16]

I haven’t looked at any Notre Dame fan boards, but I assume they are concerned about their negatives the same as we are. I think this game is a coin flip, but I do like our chances, to be honest. I just wish the game wasn't on a Thursday night. 😒

They’re expecting to beat us by multiple scores for the most part.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Warren also dropped a pass or two that he normally catches.

Wallace and Evans are both good WRs except for their ability to catch balls in traffic. Either they aren't strong enough, tough enough, or confident enough to come down with some of those passes. Remember the OSU game where Wallace had the TD pass in his hands but the OSU defender took it away for an interception?

Most interesting stat on Evans is that he's become our 3rd leading receiver and he's averaging 20 yards per catch! (which is a phenomenal average).