Our Passing Game vs ND's

[fastlax16]

It definitely is a valid question, if PSU can force ND to throw, how does their passing operation stand up? IMO, ND has better WRs when you look at top 6, they just don't throw much so stats aren't there, and riley leonard isn't as good as allar as a passer. Obviously, PSU has Warren, ND's very good TE hasn't been himself this year coming off ACL surgery.

ND throws it a higher percentage of their offensive snaps than we do, 44.6% vs 43.04%

ND has 382 passing attempts in 14 games. Penn State has 414 attempts in 15 games...

27.2 vs 27.6 attempts per game.

Penn State has more ways to beat ND than ND has ways to beat Penn State based on what both teams have shown this season.

 

[SR108]

Execution wasn't the problem against BSU, it was identification.

I would assume that Traut is working on both identification of blitz packages and how he wants them blocked. Success of both requires execution.

 

[fastlax16]

Using unbiased sources, ND's SOS is not that much different than PSU's or duhO$U's - and is infinitely better than Indiana's.

What source?

ESPN has Notre Dame's SOS (31) closer to SMU (40) and Indiana (35) than ours (17) or Ohio State (8).

 

[FightingIrish44]

What source?

ESPN has Notre Dame's SOS (31) closer to SMU (40) and Indiana (35) than ours (17) or Ohio State (8).

Teamrankings.com had ND around 30 before the playoffs began.

espn is absurdly biased (or ignorant and don’t know hot to rank schedules) and not to be trusted, evidenced by Indiana being 103 at some point. There’s no way that 30 G5 schools had a stronger schedule than Indiana.

 

[mgkpsu]

I would describe them as confident they will win. Most will admit it will be close and a tough game. Some are overly confident but in aggregate they are definitely more confident about ND winning than we are about PSU winning. Typical arrogance from Notre Dump. The school is way overrated academically if you study those bs U.S. News and World Report rankings and the football program is typically overrated year in and year out.

They are confident they will shut down our run game.

They have a lot of faith in Riley having success running and want that to be a key part of the gameplan.

They don't think we have faced a power run offense like them and they can go on long sustained drives against us.

Of course they think we have nothing at WR and believe we will have no success passing to WRs. Their secondary will shut us down.

They are concerned about Warren and say they need to contain him. They believe they can.

They point to USC, Bowling Green and Minny as blue prints on how to beat us and say that since all those games were close that we are not that good.

This of course comes from their arrogant annoying, whiney fan base. You can be sure the actual ND coaches and team are not taking us lightly.

They are also apparently ignoring the Love injury, which was apparent to anyone watching that game. He was limited at best before being completely shut down/off the field.

 

[mgkpsu]

Teamrankings.com had ND around 30 before the playoffs began.

espn is absurdly biased (or ignorant and don’t know hot to rank schedules) and not to be trusted, evidenced by Indiana being 103 at some point. There’s no way that 30 G5 schools had a stronger schedule than Indiana.

Indiana missed many of the best Big 10 squads, and had a complete dogshit out of conference schedule.

And lots of teams with a brand new Coach and lots of transfers benefit from a lack of advance scoutinf/film for one year, before everyone catches up eventually.

Only someone trying to pump up a win over Indiana would say what you said.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Indiana missed many of the best Big 10 squads, and had a complete dogshit out of conference schedule.

And lots of teams with a brand new Coach and lots of transfers benefit from a lack of advance scoutinf/film for one year, before everyone catches up eventually.

Only someone trying to pump up a win over Indiana would say what you said.

No sir, I have respect for playing 9 or 10 Power 4 opponents. People ragged on Penn State for not playing anybody, but I recognized that they played 10 Power 4 opponents.

Indiana did miss Oregon, Penn State, and Illinois, and were fortunate to do so, but playing a bunch of Washington’s, UCLA’s, and Nebraska’s is much more difficult than playing USF’s schedule (ranked #27 at one point) or any other G5’s schedule.

That’s why espn’s strength of schedule rankings are garbage.

 

[fastlax16]

Teamrankings.com had ND around 30 before the playoffs began.

espn is absurdly biased (or ignorant and don’t know hot to rank schedules) and not to be trusted, evidenced by Indiana being 103 at some point. There’s no way that 30 G5 schools had a stronger schedule than Indiana.

Indiana missed every team that finished with a winning record in conference play except for OSU and Michigan (Oregon, Penn State, OSU, Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota). They also missed 2 of the 3 teams that finished 4-5 (USC, Rutgers). They played Michigan (5-4), Washington (4-5), Nebraska (3-6), Mich State (3-6), UCLA (3-6), Northwestern (2-7), Maryland (1-8) and Purdue (0-9)

Rank NDs toughest games.

NIU USC, A&M, Louisville, Army, Navy, Indiana playing a starting qb with a torn ACL, UGA with a backup QB making his first career start.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Indiana missed every team that finished with a winning record in conference play except for OSU and Michigan (Oregon, Penn State, OSU, Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota). They also missed 2 of the 3 teams that finished 4-5 (USC, Rutgers). They played Michigan (5-4), Washington (4-5), Nebraska (3-6), Mich State (3-6), UCLA (3-6), Northwestern (2-7), Maryland (1-8) and Purdue (0-9)

Rank NDs toughest games.

NIU USC, A&M, Louisville, Army, Navy, Indiana playing a starting qb with a torn ACL, UGA with a backup QB making his first career start.

Please read my post above (#87). I wasn’t getting into ND’s schedule or comparing schedules other than to demonstrate that espn’s strength of schedule ranking is trash.

Do you believe that around 40 Group of 5 schools played a more difficult schedule than Indiana (Indiana was around 103 late in the season)? I sure as heck don’t.

 

[fastlax16]

Please read my post above (#87). I wasn’t getting into ND’s schedule or comparing schedules other than to demonstrate that espn’s strength of schedule ranking is trash.

Do you believe that around 40 Group of 5 schools played a more difficult schedule than Indiana (Indiana was around 103 late in the season)? I sure as heck don’t.

You were responding to my post, which was about Notre Dame's SOS. Indiana's final SOS was 35th. Do you think it should have been higher? The highest rated MAC school in their final SOS was Akron at 56 (Akron played OSU, Rutgers, South Carolina).

 

[mgkpsu]

ND hasn't needed to throw much the last 12 games. They've only been down just a few minutes in that time frame.

ND's best WR is Faison, he got injured 2nd series vs A&M, first game of the year, and was out a few weeks. He wasn't fully healthy until a few weeks ago, and he looked awesome their last few games. Super quick WR, and gets open better than any WR on either team.

It definitely is a valid question, if PSU can force ND to throw, how does their passing operation stand up? IMO, ND has better WRs when you look at top 6, they just don't throw much so stats aren't there, and riley leonard isn't as good as allar as a passer. Obviously, PSU has Warren, ND's very good TE hasn't been himself this year coming off ACL surgery.

As an ND fan, I hope they run Riley early and often. Our offense is so much better when he runs. But it seems like Denbrock has protected him to keep him healthy. It wasn't until the 4th or 5th series vs georgia where there was a called run for him. ND fans, myself included, think ND felt that their D would hold Indiana and Georgia down therefor didn't have to take many risks offensively. We'll see early in the game if ND is running leonard and looking to attack at all through the air.

The most likely scenario for Penn State offensively is they hope allar reads the D correctly to identify 1-1 matchups, the oline holds up just long enough, and penn state takes a bunch of shots hoping to hit a few or get PIs. Penn state did NOT do that vs OSU, and struggled to move the ball a lot. ND has very very aggressive corners that can cover, but there are 50/50 balls to be had. The other thing, is obviously, penn state hopes their window dressing confuses the other team causing busted gaps or coverage.

Should be a great game. Curious to see how Penn State handles the physicality of the game. They haven't been in a really physical athletic game like this since OSU. Oregon just isn't physical like OSU, ND, Indiana, Michigan, Penn State. Minnesota is physical but just doesn't have physical top athletes that will be on display thursday.

This is the "best"? Based on what? Recruiting ranking? "Eye test"?

2024 27/325/1
2023 19/322/4

 

[FightingIrish44]

You were responding to my post, which was about Notre Dame's SOS. Indiana's final SOS was 35th. Do you think it should have been higher?

I wasn’t getting into that but was addressing your post to the other guy about unbiased sources. I feel that espn is tremendously biased and/or inaccurate.

I can’t speak to currently, but feel that espn’s ranking is trash on the basis that they had Indiana #103 late in the season and USF #27 at the same time.

 

[fastlax16]

Teamrankings.com had ND around 30 before the playoffs began.

espn is absurdly biased (or ignorant and don’t know hot to rank schedules) and not to be trusted, evidenced by Indiana being 103 at some point. There’s no way that 30 G5 schools had a stronger schedule than Indiana.

TeamRankings.com Weekly Indiana SOS.

1- 91
2- 99
3- 78
4- 91
5- 68
6- 67
7- 71
8- 61
9- 64
10- 59
11- 56
12- 62
13- 38
14- 42

Back to something more relevant. I think we're the best team ND has played this season. The same isn't true in reverse unless you're going to argue ND is better than Oregon and OSU.

 

[Get Nasty]

This is the "best"? Based on what? Recruiting ranking? "Eye test"?

2024 27/325/1
2023 19/322/4

Simple eye test. He's a very very difficult cover and just getting back into form end of the season. Again, only talking about WRs here. Warren is obviously the biggest receiving threat on either team.

 

[Get Nasty]

TeamRankings.com Weekly Indiana SOS.

1- 91
2- 99
3- 78
4- 91
5- 68
6- 67
7- 71
8- 61
9- 64
10- 59
11- 56
12- 62
13- 38
14- 42

Back to something more relevant. I think we're the best team ND has played this season. The same isn't true in reverse unless you're going to argue ND is better than Oregon and OSU.

Georgia in most power rankings is/was ahead of Oregon and Penn State.

2024 College Football Power Index - ESPN

View the 2024 College Football power index on ESPN. The FPI is the best predictor of a team's performance going forward for the rest of the season.

www.espn.com

Penn State is a good team, almost every ND fan realizes this. But ND has beat 3 teams with better power rankings than PSU's best win (SMU). Penn State gets a lot of credit for not getting beat bad by OSU and Oregon. This is a different OSU team right now than when PSU played them.

 

[FightingIrish44]

TeamRankings.com Weekly Indiana SOS.

1- 91
2- 99
3- 78
4- 91
5- 68
6- 67
7- 71
8- 61
9- 64
10- 59
11- 56
12- 62
13- 38
14- 42

Back to something more relevant. I think we're the best team ND has played this season. The same isn't true in reverse unless you're going to argue ND is better than Oregon and OSU.

That’s why I brought up Teamrankings — to demonstrate that they’re much better than espn’s rankings who had Indiana at 103 around Nov 18 — which is absurd. Team rankings SOS is more accurate, agree?

I think Georgia is probably better than Penn State but not by much. That’s no dig at Penn State as I was arguing for Penn State to be ahead of Texas with a few weeks remaining in the season.

At this point, ND does not appear to be as good as Oregon or Ohio State based on the regular season and playoff résumés. Prior to the playoffs, I would have said that ND is better than Ohio State because they had lost to Michigan and Oregon.

 

[ryoder1]

They are also apparently ignoring the Love injury, which was apparent to anyone watching that game. He was limited at best before being completely shut down/off the field.

They are ignoring a lot of things and blindly rounding up for Notre Dump. Based on their ridiculous assessments they would beat us 9 out of 10 games if not all 10.

 

[mgkpsu]

Simple eye test. He's a very very difficult cover and just getting back into form end of the season. Again, only talking about WRs here. Warren is obviously the biggest receiving threat on either team.

Aaah.

Eye tests are for douchebags like Herbstreit.

And you're right, ESPN is biased: They are really trying to talk up Notre Dame this week.

 

[ryoder1]

That’s why I brought up Teamrankings — to demonstrate that they’re much better than espn’s rankings who had Indiana at 103 around Nov 18 — which is absurd. Team rankings SOS is more accurate, agree?

I think Georgia is probably better than Penn State but not by much. That’s no dig at Penn State as I was arguing for Penn State to be ahead of Texas with a few weeks remaining in the season.

At this point, ND does not appear to be as good as Oregon or Ohio State based on the regular season and playoff résumés. Prior to the playoffs, I would have said that ND is better than Ohio State because they had lost to Michigan and Oregon.

Ya think Notre Dame is not as good as Ohio State? Now there is some blistering insight.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Ya think Notre Dame is not as good as Ohio State? Now there is some blistering insight.

Why are you being sarcastic? I was just politely responding to a question even though I didn’t think it had anything to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Get Nasty]

Aaah.

Eye tests are for douchebags like Herbstreit.

And you're right, ESPN is biased: They are really trying to talk up Notre Dame this week.

I never said anything about ESPN being biased. My take on both teams WRs has nothing to do with ESPN.

A better gauge in a few years (Faison is a soph) is if/where he's drafted compared to any PSU WR on this years team and where they are drafted.

 

[fastlax16]

Georgia in most power rankings is/was ahead of Oregon and Penn State.

2024 College Football Power Index - ESPN

View the 2024 College Football power index on ESPN. The FPI is the best predictor of a team's performance going forward for the rest of the season.

www.espn.com

Penn State is a good team, almost every ND fan realizes this. But ND has beat 3 teams with better power rankings than PSU's best win (SMU). Penn State gets a lot of credit for not getting beat bad by OSU and Oregon. This is a different OSU team right now than when PSU played them.

So you're saying Georgia with a backup QB making his first career start is a tougher matchup. Ok.

 

[fastlax16]

That’s why I brought up Teamrankings — to demonstrate that they’re much better than espn’s rankings who had Indiana at 103 around Nov 18 — which is absurd. Team rankings SOS is more accurate, agree?

I think Georgia is probably better than Penn State but not by much. That’s no dig at Penn State as I was arguing for Penn State to be ahead of Texas with a few weeks remaining in the season.

At this point, ND does not appear to be as good as Oregon or Ohio State based on the regular season and playoff résumés. Prior to the playoffs, I would have said that ND is better than Ohio State because they had lost to Michigan and Oregon.

I think you're being disingenuous, or disrespectful, if you think UGA with Gunner Stockton in his first career start is better than Penn State.

 

[Get Nasty]

So you're saying Georgia with a backup QB making his first career start is a tougher matchup. Ok.

Well, if you want to use numbers, what it says is georgia with another loss and their backup is considered a better team than PSU.

I'm expecting a good tough game. Probably turnovers being the most important stat like most big games.

 

[mgkpsu]

Not really, because just because a player is good for the college game it doesn't necessarily translate to Pros. And some underperformers get to the NFL and excel.

One of Penn State's best group of Receivers was Deon Butler, Jordan Norwood, and Derrick Williams, but they didn't do much in the pros.

I personally hate the NFL, so your measuring stick is meaningless to me.

I never said anything about ESPN being biased. My take on both teams WRs has nothing to do with ESPN.

A better gauge in a few years (Faison is a soph) is if/where he's drafted compared to any PSU WR on this years team and where they are drafted.

 

[Get Nasty]

I think you're being disingenuous, or disrespectful, if you think UGA with Gunner Stockton in his first career start is better than Penn State.

Might be, might not be. There's 30-40 other players that have huge impacts and roles but yes QB many times can be the most important. Allar and Stockton were both big QB recruits in the 2022 class. Yes Allar obviously has had a much bigger impact to date, and has much higher draft stock at this point. Penn State might be without their top 5 draft pick Carter.

Georgia came back to beat Texas and win the SEC championship with Stockton at QB, and kirby/Georgia had almost 4 weeks to get stockton prepared (2 weeks of knowing their opponent was ND).

There are some ND fans and Penn state fans that think their teams is just going to whip the other team. Cool. I'm expecting a good tough game, and if it's not close in the fourth quarter, it's probably due to one team having more turnovers.

 

[FightingIrish44]

I think you're being disingenuous, or disrespectful, if you think UGA with Gunner Stockton in his first career start is better than Penn State.

I’m not being disingenuous. I even made a point to mention that I thought PSU was better than Texas. Stockton had a solid to very good game against ND in my opinion.

Georgia was the #2 team going into this tournament. There’s nothing unreasonable about believing Georgia is better than Penn State.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I’m not being disingenuous. I even made a point to mention that I thought PSU was better than Texas. Stockton had a solid to very good game against ND in my opinion.

Georgia was the #2 team going into this tournament. There’s nothing unreasonable about believing Georgia is better than Penn State.

that was the good ole SEC bias. That GT game opened my eyes. I thought Georgia could beat them and they did. as for this game? I fall on the PSU side as an alum and a fan, but I see how ND could win. I think it most likely will be rather close, with possibly PSU running away with it if ND makes mistakes. I think PSU can catch up if they fall behind better than ND however I think it's close.

 

[fastlax16]

Well, if you want to use numbers, what it says is georgia with another loss and their backup is considered a better team than PSU.

I'm expecting a good tough game. Probably turnovers being the most important stat like most big games.

FPI still includes Georgia's performances with Beck in those calculations, they don't just wipe him off the board and hypothetically insert Stockton. FPI also has Bama 4th so yea.

I think it will be close, but I don't see ND winning without winning the turnover margin.

 

[ryoder1]

Why are you being sarcastic? I was just politely responding to a question even though I didn’t think it had anything to do with the topic at hand.

Can Notre Dame run (including Leonard) on Penn State and can ND shut down Penn State's run game.? There lies the answer to who will win. That and can ND limit Tyler Warren?

 

[fastlax16]

I’m not being disingenuous. I even made a point to mention that I thought PSU was better than Texas. Stockton had a solid to very good game against ND in my opinion.

Georgia was the #2 team going into this tournament. There’s nothing unreasonable about believing Georgia is better than Penn State.

Was real solid with ball protection at the end of the first half.

 

[Get Nasty]

FPI still includes Georgia's performances with Beck in those calculations, they don't just wipe him off the board and hypothetically insert Stockton. FPI also has Bama 4th so yea.

I think it will be close, but I don't see ND winning without winning the turnover margin.

If beck had continued playing, high probability their numbers would be worse off. Their fan base was more confident in stockton than Beck.

I think either team will have a tough time winning if the other team has a clear turnover advantage.

 

[Get Nasty]

Can Notre Dame run (including Leonard) on Penn State and can ND shut down Penn State's run game.? There lies the answer to who will win. That and can ND limit Tyler Warren?

I think that's both teams game plans or what they are trying to do. The other one is always turnovers.

 

[FightingIrish44]

that was the good ole SEC bias. That GT game opened my eyes. I thought Georgia could beat them and they did. as for this game? I fall on the PSU side as an alum and a fan, but I see how ND could win. I think it most likely will be rather close, with possibly PSU running away with it if ND makes mistakes. I think PSU can catch up if they fall behind better than ND however I think it's close.

Good point about PSU being more equipped to come from behind. ND’s OL is not the strength of the team and thus affects the pass game. Lots of ND fans don’t seem to understand this and put the blame on Leonard though he struggles at times as well.

100% agree on there being an SEC bias, but who should have been #2 in place of Georgia? I don’t see how any two loss team could make a legitimate case. That would leave 11-1 ND or 11-1 Indiana, and I don’t think many would be okay with that.

 

[pennstatepelly]

Can Notre Dame run (including Leonard) on Penn State and can ND shut down Penn State's run game.? There lies the answer to who will win. That and can ND limit Tyler Warren?

You read their board, they are fairly confident across the board that they can shut down our running game.

 

[fastlax16]

If beck had continued playing, high probability their numbers would be worse off. Their fan base was more confident in stockton than Beck.

I think either team will have a tough time winning if the other team has a clear turnover advantage.

Every fanbase loves the back up. You have people here wishing we had Pribula while Allar is playing himself into potential QB1 draft status.

Stockton may very well end up better than Beck, but he wasn't/isnt in his first career start. Otherwise Kirby would have been starting him sooner.

 

[FightingIrish44]

Was real solid with ball protection at the end of the first half.

He got strip-sacked as he was about to throw. The LT was beaten badly. That wasn’t Stockton’s fault. Beck is actually the one who had some rough games with turnovers. It’s entirely possible that Beck could have played a worse game just like ND’s backup QB might have beaten Northern Illinois. That’s football.

 

[mgkpsu]

He got strip-sacked as he was about to throw. The LT was beaten badly. That wasn’t Stockton’s fault. Beck is actually the one who had some rough games with turnovers. It’s entirely possible that Beck could have played a worse game just like ND’s backup QB might have beaten Northern Illinois. That’s football.

Stop. Beck would have won that game.

You are clearly over here to bend and twist everything to make your squad sound amazing. I get that as a fan, but I will never understand coming to another team's board to masturbate verbally.

 

[fastlax16]

He got strip-sacked as he was about to throw. The LT was beaten badly. That wasn’t Stockton’s fault. Beck is actually the one who had some rough games with turnovers. It’s entirely possible that Beck could have played a worse game just like ND’s backup QB might have beaten Northern Illinois. That’s football.

So the consensus best active coach in college football has been starting the wrong qb. Got it.

 

[Crusher1950]

Has ND played against any good qbs this year that’s the biggest question