I just don't get the downplaying of Micah so often...he's a really, really good coach that did really, really good things for us. At PSU, taking over a program that also had a pretty bare cupboard and winning an NCAA game in year two while stacking back to back really good recruiting classes is a very good showing. I wish that it was a "normal season" around here (and hopefully things will become that way some day in the future).
Basketball Penn State Men's Basketball upsets No.11 Wisconsin 87-83
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i am not downplaying it, although I am not at all a fan of the way he gutted the program and left. I am just saying that Rhoades appears to me to be an upgrade. which i didn't think PSU could pull off. I am pleasantly surprised.
also last season has been mythologized as if it was some kind of momentous happening. but it was not even nearly as good as the 2020 season that was cut off by covid. so there is just some hyperbole about it. and he was going to play his son for tons of minutes this year, he is doing it at ND. i have never seen that work out well. so if that is downplaying or whatever, so be it, i think it's just all true
Are you a fan of Rhoades even though he gutted the VCU program and left? That's what happens with coaching changes in 2023.
Last year wasn't "momentous", but it was one of the first time in 22 seasons that we won an NCAA game and the second time in our program's history that we played for a Big Ten title...so certainly more than a "normal" season with a little hot streak. In the end, I'd put it about on par with the 2020 season. That team might have done even better things had we played in the B1G Tourney and NCAAs, but certainly not a guarantee (most likely would have been about a 6 seed in the NCAAs and hopefully won a game, but likely wouldn't have made the Big Ten title game).
You've never seen a kid play for his dad and be successful? The best scorer in NCAA history played for his dad. Ray McCallum's son was awesome for him at Detroit. Boeheim's kid was pretty good for him. Tony Bennett was awesome for his dad. Bryce Drew as well. There are plenty of examples.
I'm showing my age, but I remember Al and Allie McGuire for those great Marquette teams in the early mid 70's.
And I remember hearing about Press and Pistol Pete Maravich.
For myself, I guess I miss the loyalty that our successful coaches had in years gone by....
this is exactly what i am talking about. last year was not on par with the 2020 season. that team was ranked #9 at one point and would have been a 3-seed or a 4-seed. last years team got to the tournament by the skin of their teeth with multiple last minute heroics. it was not remotely comparable to 2020. even Jerry Dunn and Ed DeChellis both had seasons like last years, arguably both had better seasons than it
We weren’t going to be a 3 or 4 seed in 2020 when it was all done…we were trending to about a 6 (bracketmatrix had our average as 6.25). Our best basketball in 2020 was in February, and last year it was in March. Pomeroy was 26 vs 36. 2020 was slightly better, but last year was much better than you want to give them credit for. Both were very fun seasons, and hoping for them more frequently moving forward.
well if it ends up being comparable to either of those situations i will be surprised. could see it coming last year and noted the other schools that had expressed serious interest.
a 6 assumes that they just continued to slide and exited the b1g tournament in one game. if they went to the b1g final they were probably a 4.
even with a 6, that would have been a demonstrably better season than last year. and it was a better season
I have no crystal ball. You may be right. And I have yet to watch ND play this year. The amount his son is playing needs to be gauged against the talent that is available on the roster.
It's difficult for me to analyze in my information vacuum.
Here's another very successful father son coach and player tandem with tangential PSU ties.
Tim And TJ McConnell who were coach and player respectfully for Chartiers Valley high school.
Tim of course is the sister of our own Suzie and TJ now plays in the NBA for the Indiana Pacers(?).
ok I just know that ND lost badly to Citadel this season, and i know we lost to Bucknell too, but ND like totally got blown out. and then i started wondering, was taking penn state's 2023 recruits and roster to ND really a good thing for ND? and I don't know the answer. I now feel like Rhoades may be an instant upgrade
ND is the youngest power 5 team in the country, and in the handful of youngest teams in the country. Their 9 man rotation consists of 4 freshmen and 3 Sophs, and they return everyone that wants to come back next year (with another good recruiting class coming in)… they’ll be in good shape moving forward.
yeah, their team consists of largely the team psu would have had this year, and they are not doing that good. now they do have better players on the way so we will see
I do have to disagree with your assessment of Shrewsberry. His record does not indicate just how well he has ND playing. It took everything Duke had to beat them in south Bend. He is extremely competitive using 4 freshman for most of his minutes, and like him or not, his son has a very good shot. His class coming in next year is a top 20 the last time I looked.
I think we made out very well getting Rhoades, someone who will stay here at Penn State, and plays a fun style of basketball. As far as the win last night we might not have had that win without the change, and without the players we have now, but that doesn't diminish Shrewsberrry's ability to coach.
If you determine wins and loses as your criteria for success than you are right, but ND is playing fairly well. They are 7-11, and it took everything Duke had to beat them. They lost a tough overtime game, and had Boston College by double digits at BC until Burton got into foul trouble. This is relying on 4 freshman, and a great class coming in next year. I do hate defending Screwsberry, but he is a heck of a coach.
he appears to be the real deal as a coach, but he is only about 2.5 seasons in to his D1 coaching career. we will see if he gets the job done at ND or if he is out in five years. i know he has better recruits on the way. I still think at this point Rhoades is a more proven coach and Shrewsberry is getting high accolades based on potential alone
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Do you think Rhoades is a downgrade to Micah? You realize eventually Micah was leaving with some success, just last year he got the success and ND opened up so he left. It was going to happen. Not sure Rhoades will be like that.
You are such a huge fan of Micah I am thinking you think we have a worse coach now? Maybe not but your support of Micah makes me think that.
most people view it as some huge mistake that Kraft went to the wrestling championship instead of the NCAA tournament game vs Texas. to me, that signaled Kraft knew Micah was gone, knew who he wanted instead, and wasn't going to play the game
Probably but we were losing him within 3 years or he was going to get fired. It will be interesting to see how he does at ND over the next couple of years.
I think the jury is still sort of out for me on if Rhoades is a downgrade or upgrade. I'm a big Micah fan, loved him coming in here (he was my first choice the day that Pat was fired), and think he'll do big things. But I also think that he has some really big career aspirations, and won't even be at ND that long if things go well enough that he has a better offer. I think Mike Rhoades is more in the mold of a DeChellis where he's more likely to hang here for the long haul if he has success and we take care of him.
I really like what Micah is doing at ND this season. He was willing to punt on this season a bit to build the foundation and bring in a lot of young guys (and play them). I wish that we had younger guys playing as well, as we're getting nothing out of the freshman class, and are relying on some older guys. However, Micah showed us last year that is a potential path to success at PSU. I think that we are really going to need to add another difference maker or two in the portal this offseason if we're going to have success next year (and get Ace, Kanye, and any other key guys to hang around).
Kraft spent Thursday night at the basketball game, and then went to see the Wrestling team win a national title on Saturday...he did exactly what I'd hope our AD would do in trying to support all of our sports.
Rhoades has no D1 Power 6 experience, so he has to prove himself. Don't get me wrong, I have loved what I have seen from Rhoades so far. His pressure defense is so much more fun to watch than Screwsberry's, but much harder to learn and implement. We are seeing a lot of improvement with the team, but Screwsberry does bring NBA experience with him, taking a school not known for BB and getting them to the NCAA's. He also has a great class coming in next year. As much as I would love to see ND lose, Micah is a proven coach so far.
That being said, I think we maybe in better shape getting the crew that Rhoades has brought in, and if he can bring back Kern, Johnson, Dunn, Ace, Brown, Clary, Lilley and Aire next year, he will have what I think is a tournament team.
Do you think Miles Goodman can be an impact player for us next season? He's young but hopefully ready to contribute.
I was a big Screwberry fan until he did what he did. I don't think he is, well I'll just let that one go, but he is an excellent coach. I much rather watching Rhoades' style of defense than Screwsberry's. Micah is playing a lot of younger players, has a great class coming in, but I disagree with you on our chances next year. If he can bring back Kern, Johnson, Dunn, Ace, Brown, Clary, Lilley and Aire next year, he will have what I think is a tournament team. There is very little weakness in that group, and with a year under Rhoades, they will gel even better. He has a decent class coming in, and Tuesday night you are starting to see what Lilley can do with more playing time. The one thing that would help from the portal would be another big man, although I think if he brings back everyone there won't be room, but I am not sure.
Both he and Dominick Stewart have been nominated to play in the McDonald's all American Game. Doesn't mean they will, but shows that they are highly talented. If Rhoades brings back everyone next season, they will do a lot of sitting and learning. It will also be a great class to build upon, and as coach Weber said on the post game show, recruits will be watching the highlights of us beating Wisconsin, and that will be a selling card. I think we are in good hands with Rhoades, and hopefully Crispin stays for a while.
I think it's doubtful...there aren't many bigs that come in and are "plus-players" as a freshman, unless they are really in that upper-echelon. But hopefully he will surprise me. I think it would be great if we could get another 5 out of the portal to start, and then use him as depth.
You're a lot more optimistic about that group than I am...we'd really need a few impact guys from the portal to turn them into a tournament team. Still a lack of shooters, and very weak at the 4/5.
Maybe slightly. The reality is PSU basketball fans have really low standards. Much lower standards than the football standards. The team is .500 and 0 top 10 wins. They stormed the court after beating the #15 team. Do you think PSU football would tear down the goal posts for a non top ten win vs Wisconsin?
Fans storm the court as Penn State upsets No. 15 Wisconsin | FOX Sports
The Penn State Nittany Lions upset the Wisconsin Badgers 87-83 and students stormed the court.
www.foxsports.com
Rhoades has a lot of D1 experience, and you seem to be looking for any way you can qualify it. The A10 is often the next best league outside the p5. Micah by comparison had zero years as a D1 HC when he was hired (tbh, that alone was a little strange given his resume as an assistant). so far he is in his 3rd season and one out of three seasons have been good, and the good one required heroics during the conference tournament to even be remembered at all. as i said he is being mythologized as a HC far beyond anything that he has actually done
i am pretty sure goal posts have been torn down for beating PittThey stormed the court after beating the #15 team. Do you think PSU football would tear down the goal posts for a non top ten win vs Wisconsin?
Fans storm the court as Penn State upsets No. 15 Wisconsin | FOX Sports
The Penn State Nittany Lions upset the Wisconsin Badgers 87-83 and students stormed the court.
but the basketball team can only play who they are scheduled to play and that was the league's top team
First of all Wisconsin was ranked 11th, and they were undefeated in the Big Ten. But one of the main reasons for storming the court, other than supporting those kids who worked hard for this win, is that in the last 20 games, Penn State was 1-19 against Wisconsin, so beating Wisconsin in basketball is like the football team beating Ohio State and Michigan in the same year. Beating a top team for a first year head coach, with 10 new basketball players is a big deal. Can't understand why so many people have a problem with students storming the court to support their team is such a big deal.Maybe slightly. The reality is PSU basketball fans have really low standards. Much lower standards than the football standards. The team is .500 and 0 top 10 wins. They stormed the court after beating the #15 team. Do you think PSU football would tear down the goal posts for a non top ten win vs Wisconsin?
Fans storm the court as Penn State upsets No. 15 Wisconsin | FOX Sports
The Penn State Nittany Lions upset the Wisconsin Badgers 87-83 and students stormed the court.
And year of NBA experience as a coach. He took two years to bring Penn State to the NCAA's, and has ND playing extremely well with 75% of the minutes going to freshman. I am not trying to do anything with Micah as I enjoy seeing ND lose, and I think having NBA experience is better than A10 experience. Being a Penn State fan I will pull very hard for Rhoades, and pull very hard for any team playing ND.
he was an assistant in the NBA. that is very good but not unheard of. even Jerry Dunn was an assistant coach for the Knicks once
FWIW, in Mike’s 6 seasons in the A10, Pomeroy rated it 10, 11, 9, 9, 10, 13. The A10 has really fallen off.
And last season, we had a realistic chance of dancing even without any wins in the Big Ten tourney. We certainly didn’t need those 4 days to be “remembered at all”. We won a freaking NCAA game…that’s kinda a big deal around here.
I don't think that there was any chance of going to the ncaa tournament without a b1g tournament win last year, and maybe even two were required to get beyond play-in game status. the season is retroactively being made into something better than it actually was. it was a very good March, but not a fantastic season overall. the 2020 season was much better
As I said then, we were a coin flip with a loss to Illinois…that win moved Friday’s game against Northwestern to basically determine if there was any chance of heading to Dayton. We did get a lot of breaks with it being a weak bubble, but in hindsight, we were in pretty decent shape.
well, we differ on that. i think we would have been 100% out with a loss to Illinois, and marginal with a loss to NW. it was fun the way it worked out though
WeIl, I don’t think anyone predicted we would have 9 wins at this point with such a big time win. We lost our hc and pretty much the entire f’n roster. I am supremely satisfied with Rhoades. Thus far Shrewberry looks like a dud in comparison .Maybe slightly. The reality is PSU basketball fans have really low standards. Much lower standards than the football standards. The team is .500 and 0 top 10 wins. They stormed the court after beating the #15 team. Do you think PSU football would tear down the goal posts for a non top ten win vs Wisconsin?
Fans storm the court as Penn State upsets No. 15 Wisconsin | FOX Sports
The Penn State Nittany Lions upset the Wisconsin Badgers 87-83 and students stormed the court.
Why would “no one” have predicted we’d have 9 wins right now? I recall a lot more optimism than that heading into the season…and if we were to play it over again, I’d certainly hope for at least 9 wins.
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