Basketball PENN STATE VS INDIANA PREVIEW & GAMETHREAD - 3:30 p.m EST - CBS

[fairfaxlion2]

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any non P6 teams…just not as many as there are. And getting to the final weekend isn’t winning it. If only a small percentage of the total teams getting in were mid majors and they were frequently getting to the final weekend, I would agree with you. But half the field is made up of mid majors and they might get one team past the sweet 16….that’s not a great argument to add more.

i am saying your criteria of only winning the title matters is not logical.

if all the mid majors were getting bounced in the first two rounds it would be a valid point

but that is not happening and in fact the trend is going in the other direction. every time a mid major team advances to the final 8 or 4, that means they bested a lot of p5 teams to get there. and there are enough examples of that at this point

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Cincinnati made the CFP…I guess that’s proof that a G5 team deserves to make the four team playoff every year….rock solid evidence.

except that this is a total non sequitur and the CFP is set by people inserting teams into the final 4. they don't beat other teams to get there

also you have completely changed the topic to something i was not even remotely talking about

 

[AWS1022]

i am saying your criteria of only winning the title matters is not logical.

if all the mid majors were getting bounced in the first two rounds it would be a valid point

but that is not happening and in fact the trend is going in the other direction. every time a mid major team advances to the final 8 or 4, that means they bested a lot of p5 teams to get there. and there are enough examples of that at this point

There are just as many (if not more) mid major teams than P5 teams in the tournament, so they didn’t beat that many P5 teams to get there. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy…hey, a mid major got to the elite 8, so see they can compete, we need to add more. Hey now a mid major got to the elite 8 and one got to the sweet 16 (smaller percentage of the total, but an additional team), see it’s proof, add more. If two mid majors get to the elite 8, that’s not proof that they all can compete, that’s two out of 8 while the P5 has 6 out of 8 and there are the same number of both to start with.

 

[AWS1022]

except that this is a total non sequitur and the CFP is set by people inserting teams into the final 4. they don't beat other teams to get there

also you have completely changed the topic to something i was not even remotely talking about

And many of the mid majors in basketball don’t beat any good teams to get there either…that’s the point.

 

[Agoodnap]

My point is there are too many mid majors making the tournament every year because everybody falls in love with the potential Cinderella team that never ends up winning it. Put in more teams that have a legit shot at winning the tournament. Just like when they go to 12 teams for football…I don’t want to see 6 or 7 G5 teams in it just to possibly see one of them knock someone off.

I do.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

There are just as many (if not more) mid major teams than P5 teams in the tournament, so they didn’t beat that many P5 teams to get there. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy…hey, a mid major got to the elite 8, so see they can compete, we need to add more. Hey now a mid major got to the elite 8 and one got to the sweet 16 (smaller percentage of the total, but an additional team), see it’s proof, add more. If two mid majors get to the elite 8, that’s not proof that they all can compete, that’s two out of 8 while the P5 has 6 out of 8 and there are the same number of both to start with.

i am talking about when mid majors get to the elite 8 and final 4

how do you think they get there?

Butler 2010: defeats Syracuse, Kansas St and Michigan St

VCU 2011: defeats USC, Georgetown, Purdue, Florida St, and Kansas

Butler 2011: defeats Pitt, Wisconsin, Florida and VCU (who beat everyone listed above)

2011 alone proves the entire point that mid majors belong and are in fact sometimes superior to the P5 teams

Loyola 2018 - defeats Miami (fl), Tennessee, Kansas State

George Mason 2006 - defeats Michigan State, North Carolina, Connecticut

Gonzaga 1999 - defeats Minnesota, Stanford, Florida

St. peter's 2022 defeats Kentucky and Purdue

utah 1998 - defeats Arkansas, WVU, Arizona and UNC



the idea that less competition would improve competition is a backwards concept

 

[AWS1022]

i am talking about when mid majors get to the elite 8 and final 4

how do you think they get there?

Butler 2010: defeats Syracuse, Kansas St and Michigan St

VCU 2011: defeats USC, Georgetown, Purdue, Florida St, and Kansas

Butler 2011: defeats Pitt, Wisconsin, Florida and VCU (who beat everyone listed above)

2011 alone proves the entire point that mid majors belong and are in fact sometimes superior to the P5 teams

Loyola 2018 - defeats Miami (fl), Tennessee, Kansas State

George Mason 2006 - defeats Michigan State, North Carolina, Connecticut

Gonzaga 1999 - defeats Minnesota, Stanford, Florida

St. peter's 2022 defeats Kentucky and Purdue

utah 1998 - defeats Arkansas, WVU, Arizona and UNC



the idea that less competition would improve competition is a backwards concept

Not less competition, better competition. What would be a better game, a #1 or #2 seed playing Michigan or Wisconsin in the first game or playing Southampton Institute of Technology?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Not less competition, better competition. What would be a better game, a #1 or #2 seed playing Michigan or Wisconsin in the first game or playing Southampton Institute of Technology?

so you think they should just hand pick 8 teams out of 300 and that should be the whole tournament?

that is definitely less competition and as stupid as the football system

 

[AWS1022]

so you think they should just hand pick 8 teams out of 300 and that should be the whole tournament?

that is definitely less competition and as stupid as the football system

No, where did you come up with that? Continue with the 64 teams, get rid of automatic bids only give one bid to certain conferences and they need to decide whether the regular season champ or the tournament champ goes. Get more P6 teams in and cut down on the mid major love affair.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

No, where did you come up with that? Continue with the 64 teams, get rid of automatic bids only give one bid to certain conferences and they need to decide whether the regular season champ or the tournament champ goes. Get more P6 teams in and cut down on the mid major love affair.

it's a horrible idea

the answer is more teams

 

[AWS1022]

it's a horrible idea

the answer is more teams

In your opinion…we’re allowed to have different opinions.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

In your opinion…we’re allowed to have different opinions.

did i ever say we weren't?

it's just a bad idea thats all imo

 

[AWS1022]

did i ever say we weren't?

it's just a bad idea thats all imo

I think it’s better than what we have now. Again, my opinion…can’t judge whether it’s a bad idea until they actually try it and we can see the results. You can’t prove something that doesn’t happen.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I think it’s better than what we have now. Again, my opinion…can’t judge whether it’s a bad idea until they actually try it and we can see the results. You can’t prove something that doesn’t happen.

why do you think it would better than going to 96 with no additional AQs? that would bring in many more p6 teams without changing the mid majors situation

 

[AWS1022]

why do you think it would better than going to 96 with no additional AQs? that would bring in many more p6 teams without changing the mid majors situation

Maybe we can then give every team a trophy. Why not let every team make it. Watering anything down never makes it better.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Maybe we can then give every team a trophy. Why not let every team make it. Watering anything down never makes it better.

that is not giving every team a trophy

it is almost the exact same thing you are proposing without eliminating mid majors. less competition doesn't improve competition

if a 1 seed blows it vs a 16 they shouldn't be the national champion. it seems to work

 

[AWS1022]

that is not giving every team a trophy

it is almost the exact same thing you are proposing without eliminating mid majors. less competition doesn't improve competition

if a 1 seed blows it vs a 16 they shouldn't be the national champion. it seems to work

Our disagreement is regarding the mid majors…I think we need fewer not the same number, so increasing the number of total teams doesn’t fix what I think is the inherent problem.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Our disagreement is regarding the mid majors…I think we need fewer not the same number, so increasing the number of total teams doesn’t fix what I think is the inherent problem.

why are they a problem when there are plenty of examples of them being superior to the p5 teams who live off of their name brands?

they're either in d1 or they are not

the conferences don't mean anything. they are regional groups of schools

 

[AWS1022]

why are they a problem when there are plenty of examples of them being superior to the p5 teams who live off of their name brands?

they're either in d1 or they are not

the conferences don't mean anything. they are regional groups of schools

Many of them aren’t superior to the P5 teams, which is why they get thrown out as sacrificial lambs for the #1 and #2 seeds, meanwhile many P5 bubble teams who have to play far more difficult competition though out the year are sitting home. That’s why they are a problem.

And the conferences do mean something because that’s how many of them are there in the first place, they won their crummy conference.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Many of them aren’t superior to the P5 teams, which is why they get thrown out as sacrificial lambs for the #1 and #2 seeds, meanwhile many P5 bubble teams who have to play far more difficult competition though out the year are sitting home. That’s why they are a problem.

And the conferences do mean something because that’s how many of them are there in the first place, they won their crummy conference.

we probably agree that there are too many AQs as a % of the overall field but i don't agree on how to deal with that. having them in does no harm. the teams on the edge who get left out aren't real contenders either. i would just put every team in the tournament and start it a month earlier

if you leave these committees to their own devices you will have the basketball equivalent of Kirk Herbstreit pumping OSU to get in over a mid-major because they won 2 or 3 games, despite the fact that they lost about 15 straight games before that

 

[AWS1022]

we probably agree that there are too many AQs as a % of the overall field but i don't agree on how to deal with that. having them in does no harm. the teams on the edge who get left out aren't real contenders either. i would just put every team in the tournament and start it a month earlier

if you leave these committees to their own devices you will have the basketball equivalent of Kirk Herbstreit pumping OSU to get in over a mid-major because they won 2 or 3 games, despite the fact that they lost about 15 straight games before that

The teams who don’t get in will at least give some competition to the top teams. There’s too much advantage to some of the #1 and #2 seeds.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

The teams who don’t get in will at least give some competition to the top teams. There’s too much advantage to some of the #1 and #2 seeds.

sometimes

a team like Rutgers or Clemson getting bumped by Dayton or whatever does not really bother me