Basketball PENN STATE VS INDIANA PREVIEW & GAMETHREAD - 3:30 p.m EST - CBS

[bdgan]

Njie played pretty well in the second half. He finished with 9 rebounds and 6 points including 2-2 from the FT line. I wanted Funk to take the 3 instead of dump it down to Njie because I didn't think he'd make the FTs.

Key play that could have cost us was Dread's blocking foul that gave Indy a 3 pt play. Tough break because he was in near perfect position to get the charge call but his foot was on the line. I could have been game over if he got that call.

Great run by PSU. Too bad it didn't start a little earlier to get the home fans interested at BJC.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Njie played pretty well in the second half. He finished with 9 rebounds and 6 points including 2-2 from the FT line. I wanted Funk to take the 3 instead of dump it down to Njie because I didn't think he'd make the FTs.

Njie really batted on the offensive boards too...there were a few plays where he didn't get the rebound, but he did keep it alive for someone else to get.

 

[bdgan]

Njie really batted on the offensive boards too...there were a few plays where he didn't get the rebound, but he did keep it alive for someone else to get.

4 offensive rebounds

 

[The Spin Meister]

Njie played pretty well in the second half. He finished with 9 rebounds and 6 points including 2-2 from the FT line. I wanted Funk to take the 3 instead of dump it down to Njie because I didn't think he'd make the FTs.

Key play that could have cost us was Dread's blocking foul that gave Indy a 3 pt play. Tough break because he was in near perfect position to get the charge call but his foot was on the line. I could have been game over if he got that call.

Great run by PSU. Too bad it didn't start a little earlier to get the home fans interested at BJC.

Easily his best game. And got more minutes for his efforts. He is gaining confidence which is great. We need him to play good minutes tomorrow against Edey or that guy will kill us like he always does,

 

[bison13]

Easily his best game. And for more minutes for his efforts. He is gaining confidence which is great. We need him to play good minutes tomorrow against Edey or that guy will kill us like he always does,

No matter what he does tomorrow, Njie has improved significantly over the last two weeks. Giving him another week of practice and playing in the tournament game as well as this coming off-season should really help him. Between he and Clary I am feeling much better about next year‘s team. I’m not expecting 20 wins again, but those two will be very good building blocks for two years from now.

 

[AWS1022]

Yeah, he almost decided to just let IU win to ensure our home win over them stays Q1.

Under this system, close losses sometimes are better than comfortable wins. It’s another flaw in the system.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Under this system, close losses sometimes are better than comfortable wins. It’s another flaw in the system.

At the end of the day, it really isn't though...it might help with making things look visually better to have an extra Quad 1 win, but the committee is digging in and realizes that a Q1 win over #1 on the road is lot different than a Q1 win over #75 on the road (or that beating #30 at home isn't that different from beating #31). Winning big will help your own NET rating, which carries more weight in the end that where exactly some of your opponents fall vs the cutoffs.

 

[ryoder1]

The committee is going to have issues with getting all the Big Ten teams into the right place though, since so many us are in the 8/9 range, and you've got Purdue as the potential 1 that limits who they can play in the second round. So, we could even land in the 29-32 range in the S-curve but be bumped up to a 7 seed.

What's the s-curve?

 

[Erial_Lion]

What's the s-curve?

It's basically how they build the bracket...they rank the teams from 1-68...and that's the order of teams that they place in the bracket. 1-4 as 1 seeds, 5-8 as 2 seeds, 9-12 as 3 seeds. They'll give 1-4 the closest geographical region in order...then they'll get to 5, and try to place them in the closest geographical region that doesn't violate any other principles (ie, teams in the same conference), 6 would be placed next, etc. As they go along, there will be spots where they can't place a team on their "true" seed line, so they'll bump them up or down one seed depending on where they fall to make it all work.

The challenge with the 8/9 teams and Purdue is that teams from the same conference can't meet in the second round if they played at least twice that season, and can't meet in the Sweet 16 if they played 3 times. So, assuming Purdue is a 1, then anyone that played them twice can't be in the 8/9 game in their region. In that case, if it's time to fit in a Big Ten team and it doesn't work, the team could get bumped to a 7 seed to avoid Purdue.

 

[The Spin Meister]

It's basically how they build the bracket...they rank the teams from 1-68...and that's the order of teams that they place in the bracket. 1-4 as 1 seeds, 5-8 as 2 seeds, 9-12 as 3 seeds. They'll give 1-4 the closest geographical region in order...then they'll get to 5, and try to place them in the closest geographical region that doesn't violate any other principles (ie, teams in the same conference), 6 would be placed next, etc. As they go along, there will be spots where they can't place a team on their "true" seed line, so they'll bump them up or down one seed depending on where they fall to make it all work.

The challenge with the 8/9 teams and Purdue is that teams from the same conference can't meet in the second round if they played at least twice that season, and can't meet in the Sweet 16 if they played 3 times. So, assuming Purdue is a 1, then anyone that played them twice can't be in the 8/9 game in their region. In that case, if it's time to fit in a Big Ten team and it doesn't work, the team could get bumped to a 7 seed to avoid Purdue.

So Purdue is likely the #1 seed in Columbus and we will be in a different region. But so will other B2G teams. Meaning if we win a game or two we could face another B2G team again. Maybe even two of them… if we all win.

 

[Erial_Lion]

So Purdue is likely the #1 seed in Columbus and we will be in a different region. But so will other B2G teams. Meaning if we win a game or two we could face another B2G team again. Maybe even two of them… if we all win.

Theoretically, we could face a Big Ten team in the second round if it’s a team we only played once…but it won’t happen this year since there isn’t a potential match.

 

[doctornick]

Under this system, close losses sometimes are better than comfortable wins. It’s another flaw in the system.

Naw. The argument I would be that a close win can be better than a blowout win even if a blowout would be more likely to reflect being better quality

 

[AWS1022]

At the end of the day, it really isn't though...it might help with making things look visually better to have an extra Quad 1 win, but the committee is digging in and realizes that a Q1 win over #1 on the road is lot different than a Q1 win over #75 on the road (or that beating #30 at home isn't that different from beating #31). Winning big will help your own NET rating, which carries more weight in the end that where exactly some of your opponents fall vs the cutoffs.

But losing by 3 to a team shouldn’t count more than winning by 10 over someone else. Maybe the team lost by three because the other team played like crap. You’re allowed to admit the system isn’t perfect.

 

[Erial_Lion]

But losing by 3 to a team shouldn’t count more than winning by 10 over someone else. Maybe the team lost by three because the other team played like crap. You’re allowed to admit the system isn’t perfect.

It doesn’t count more…I mean, I guess in the NET itself it would, but that’s because it should in many instances. Losing by 3 at Kansas certainly is more impressive than beating Chicago St by 10 at home.

 

[AWS1022]

It doesn’t count more

Tell that to WVU.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Tell that to WVU.

I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean.

 

[87 Penn St8]

Glad you survived.

My bride had dinner ready and the kitchen tv on the game. I was walking tiwards the island counter when Funk flubbed the inbounds/"kick" turned lay up. I scteamed.

Apparently loudly. With anger. Hurt her ear and raised her blood pressure. Not happy wife....but all worked out!

 

[AWS1022]

I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean.

At one point they were 4-10 in conference and still solidly in the tournament because of all the close losses they had.

 

[Erial_Lion]

At one point they were 4-10 in conference and still solidly in the tournament because of all the close losses they had.

It wasn’t about the close losses, it was about the quality of teams that they beat and lost to…plus, remember that conference record is irrelevant for selection.

And I have no idea who had them projected as in, if it took into account that Texas Tech loss to get to 15-12, etc (that was their only borderline loss all season).

 

[AWS1022]

It wasn’t about the close losses, it was about the quality of teams that they beat and lost to…plus, remember that conference record is irrelevant for selection.

So like I said, you’re better off losing to higher ranked teams than beating other teams….unless you’re a mid major racking up 30 wins against tomato cans. They love their mid majors.

 

[Erial_Lion]

So like I said, you’re better off losing to higher ranked teams than beating other teams….unless you’re a mid major racking up 30 wins against tomato cans. They love their mid majors.

Not really…if all you’re doing is losing to good teams, you aren’t getting in. But if you play a ridiculous schedule, a few games over .500 might be enough if you rack up enough good wins.

 

[AWS1022]

Not really…if all you’re doing is losing to good teams, you aren’t getting in. But if you play a ridiculous schedule, a few games over .500 might be enough if you rack up enough good wins.

Well, at that point they were way under .500 against the good teams they played and were still solidly in the tournament.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Well, at that point they were way under .500 against the good teams they played and were still solidly in the tournament.

No bad losses and a bunch of good wins will do that. And since then, they’ve continued to prove they belong.

 

[ryoder1]

We may be better as a 10 vs an 8 or 9 because of an easier 2nd rd game that avoids a 1 seed. Obviously playing a 7 in theory in the 1st rd is more difficult than playing an 8 or 9 but this team has shown it can compete with anyone and there is minimal difference in a 7 vs an 8.

At the end of the day it is about match ups. There could be a 13 or 14 seed where we have a lousy matchup and could lose. Conversely we could matchup great with a 2 or 3 seed or even 1 and have a good chance to win. The other wildcard is Pickett. He is one of the best players in the country and extremely difficult to shut down. A team may limit his points but then he is distributing the ball all over and if our other guys step up (and they have been) then he takes over a game that way.

 

[AWS1022]

No bad losses and a bunch of good wins will do that. And since then, they’ve continued to prove they belong.

I guess it depends on your definition of good wins. You can continue to act as if the system is flawless, and I will continue to disagree. I would rather see the #1 or #2 seed open up against a team like Michigan or Wisconsin as opposed to the Southampton Institute of Technology who’s in the tournament because they won the Western Mormon Tabernacle conference tournament (and considered a good win for P5 teams that played them). That’s just one of the many flaws in the system (I know, you think it’s perfect).

 

[Erial_Lion]

I guess it depends on your definition of good wins. You can continue to act as if the system is flawless, and I will continue to disagree. I would rather see the #1 or #2 seed open up against a team like Michigan or Wisconsin as opposed to the Southampton Institute of Technology who’s in the tournament because they won the Western Mormon Tabernacle conference tournament (and considered a good win for P5 teams that played them). That’s just one of the many flaws in the system (I know, you think it’s perfect).

I think it’s the beauty of the two greatest days of the year. Virginia loses to 16th seeded Michigan and who cares. But the entire bar I was at in South Philly was going nuts with every UMBC basket. FGCU, Lehigh, Norfolk St, Hampton, etc were all such great moments that to me are what makes the tournament (and makes Championship week as they battle to get their chance). Getting more .500 power conference schools at their expense would ruin it for me.

 

[NittanyChris]

I repeat: PAY SHREWSBERRY!!!

 

[AWS1022]

I think it’s the beauty of the two greatest days of the year. Virginia loses to 16th seeded Michigan and who cares. But the entire bar I was at in South Philly was going nuts with every UMBC basket. FGCU, Lehigh, Norfolk St, Hampton, etc were all such great moments that to me are what makes the tournament (and makes Championship week as they battle to get their chance). Getting more .500 power conference schools at their expense would ruin it for me.

And the UMBC thing happened once in the history of the tournament. Watering down the teams in hopes of that one game every 30 years isn’t worth it to me. But if that’s what makes the tournament for you and others, that’s fine, but let’s call it for what it is and not try to hide behind some convoluted system to explain it away. And in the end, those teams are never going to win it, so I would rather have more teams that have a legit shot to go all the way (like an NC State).

 

[fairfaxlion2]

And the UMBC thing happened once in the history of the tournament. Watering down the teams in hopes of that one game every 30 years isn’t worth it to me. But if that’s what makes the tournament for you and others, that’s fine, but let’s call it for what it is and not try to hide behind some convoluted system to explain it away. And in the end, those teams are never going to win it, so I would rather have more teams that have a legit shot to go all the way (like an NC State).

VCU, George Mason and Butler all had chances due to the system and all came close to winning the tournament

back in the late 90s Gonzaga established what is now a great program with some deep runs in the tournament

 

[fairfaxlion2]

what was with the tv analysts giving PSU practically no chance in the game due to the concept that Indiana wanted revenge? It seemed like the consensus on both btn and cbs

normally when you look at head to head matchups, you don't conclude that the team who won by 20 pts is likely to lose the rematch

 

[AWS1022]

VCU, George Mason and Butler all had chances due to the system and all came close to winning the tournament

back in the late 90s Gonzaga established what is now a great program with some deep runs in the tournament

But they didn’t win it….end of the day it’s going to be a P5 team or a basketball school that wins it regardless of how much they try to “spread the wealth”.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

But they didn’t win it….end of the day it’s going to be a P5 team or a basketball school that wins it regardless of how much they try to “spread the wealth”.

i mean, butler literally had the winning shot go in and out of the basket when they lost the first NC game. Gonzaga has been with ron 5 points of winning the title. it is very clear at this point that these smaller schools can and do compete in the tournament. if anything the field should be larger

 

[AWS1022]

i mean, butler literally had the winning shot go in and out of the basket when they lost the first NC game. Gonzaga has been with ron 5 points of winning the title. it is very clear at this point that these smaller schools can and do compete in the tournament. if anything the field should be larger

But it didn’t happen…when’s the last time a non P6 school won it…1966? That’s not exactly a track record of success to justify adding more of these teams.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

But it didn’t happen…when’s the last time a non P6 school won it…1966? That’s not exactly a track record of success to justify adding more of these teams.

i don't understand you point, sorry

if Butler's shot has gone in, that would justify it for you, but losing the NC game by 2 means many of the smaller schools shouldn't be there? all of the other wonderful p6 teams failed to get to that spot vs duke.

there are 300+ d1 programs and i see very little reason not to expand it to 96 or 128

also what do you consider P6?

 

[AWS1022]

i don't understand you point, sorry

My point is there are too many mid majors making the tournament every year because everybody falls in love with the potential Cinderella team that never ends up winning it. Put in more teams that have a legit shot at winning the tournament. Just like when they go to 12 teams for football…I don’t want to see 6 or 7 G5 teams in it just to possibly see one of them knock someone off.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

My point is there are too many mid majors making the tournament every year because everybody falls in love with the potential Cinderella team that never ends up winning it. Put in more teams that have a legit shot at winning the tournament. Just like when they go to 12 teams for football…I don’t want to see 6 or 7 G5 teams in it just to possibly see one of them knock someone off.

makes no sense when you have lots of examples of mid majors going all the way to the final weekend

just thinking back things like Kentucky vs Utah in the 1998 national championship. one of the better title games. by your logic Utah may have never been invited because they played in the MWC. But there were plenty of P5 teams on their side of the bracket. who emerged from that? the mwc team

 

[Erial_Lion]

Hell, St Peters just played in the elite 8 last year

 

[AWS1022]

makes no sense when you have lots of examples of mid majors going all the way to the final weekend

just thinking back things like Kentucky vs Utah in the 1998 national championship. one of the better title games. by your logic Utah may have never been invited because they played in the MWC. But there were plenty of P5 teams on their side of the bracket. who emerged from that? the mwc team

I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any non P6 teams…just not as many as there are. And getting to the final weekend isn’t winning it. If only a small percentage of the total teams getting in were mid majors and they were frequently getting to the final weekend, I would agree with you. But half the field is made up of mid majors and they might get one team past the sweet 16….that’s not a great argument to add more.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Hell, St Peters just played in the elite 8 last year

shouldnt have been there. they don't sell their hats at the hat store in the mall

wasnt loyola chicago also in the final 4 recently?

lol this argument against the mid majors just keeps getting worse

 

[AWS1022]

shouldnt have been there. they don't sell their hats at the hat store in the mall

wasnt loyola chicago also in the final 4 recently?

lol this argument against the mid majors just keeps getting worse

Cincinnati made the CFP…I guess that’s proof that a G5 team deserves to make the four team playoff every year….rock solid evidence.