You are right that there is no comparison between Joe and Franklin, considering that Franklin has faced 10 times the adversity. Joe did no better at this stage of his career .
Perspective of an Old Timer
- Thread starter OzLion
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I recall in the 86 game against Miami, Miami had I believe Michael Irvin as an all world receiver. PSU's strategy was to give him alligator arms. That is, catch or no catch, the DB's and LB's would hit him so hard he would be reluctant to reach for a pass for fear of getting slammed. And it worked. He dropped a couple of important catches
You're funny. Paterno against Franklin in their prime with equal talent. Let's see where the money lands. Most of Joe's losses come after his prime.
We can play this game all day. In his prime Joe was considered perhaps the best coach in the business. He built an average program and cow college into a national powerhouse. We were the best program in the country after the 86 NC and his bowl record was tremendous.
The stadium and the fanbase Franklin enjoys were built by Joe. Just say thank you Joe and worry about Franklin going getting boat raced by scum in a couple of weeks.
The year we won the NC in 82 that schedule was ranked the toughest in the country. Once Joe got it rolling we played a national schedule with Alabama, Notre Dame, Nebreskas, Texas, Miami, USC, etc and our Eastern brethren.
The big ten was a joke outside of scum and OSU.
No one is suggesting Franklin is Joe’s coaching equal. (At least I’m not.). Instead, I’m suggesting that things weren’t quite as perfect 50 years ago as folks think they remember, the schedule wasn’t near as tough for a lot of that time and Franklin is doing better than some folks think.
And let us not forget that Franklin didn’t exactly inherit the best situation. IMO, you should be thanking Franklin for coming here, staying here and cheering him on as he continues to close the gap on the elite programs.
Joe had to live with "The Big Four" rules until 1973 when Pitt left:
The Big Four's first major agreement made in 1962 was the prohibition of redshirting strictly for developmental purposes. Eventually, this turned into a significant bone of contention among the four football playing schools because by the mid-1960s Penn State and Syracuse had vastly superior rosters, and Pitt and West Virginia believed the redshirting rule and roster restrictions had helped maintain a status quo favoring Penn State and Syracuse.
Coach (Bobby) Dodd and coach Bryant were inseparable, and the biggest argument they ever had (was over scholarships). "(Dodd) said, 'Paul, I want you to get your pencil out because I want you to put these numbers down. You're signing 55 players a year and I'm signing 32 players a year on average, and then you redshirt your eight to 10 players like we redshirt our eight to 10 players - not necessarily because they are going to be good players but because our academics are so tough - and we're never over our total of 120 and we're on the cusp all the time. You start writing those numbers down and you tell me what the difference is going to be.' You take the difference of 32 from 55 and then multiply that by four,and we're over and they're not over."
The above from West VA site: https://wvusports.com/news/2019/7/10/blog-cfb150-eastern-independence
Exactly. Once he got it rolling. Franklin came in under scholarship restrictions. Things were starting to roll but then Covid hit and the rules weren’t equal state to state and school to school under Covid. Even if NCAA recruiting rules were equal, where athletes were deciding to go were influenced in part by how Covid was handled out of fear of shut downs happening again.
11-2 last year with a NY6 bowl win. Let’s see how this season plays out. Contrary to popular belief, the season isn’t yet over. The gap to elite isn’t very wide right now. Let’s see if Franklin can get us the rest of the way there.
So what your saying is Franklin has a good chance of winning one or multiple championships in the future.
Did Franklin leave Penn State for another program?
Saban didn't win until stop 3.
Any way you slice it, Joe had more wins against top five teams than Franklin has. Joe also had several undefeated teams at ten years. Franklins hasn't come close.
Franklin didn't have the sanctions. Bill did. Franklin did have to build up the talent. I have zero confidence Franklin can beat the good teams. I have 10 years of data to back me up.
Very little impact from the sanctions
People here make them out to be far more impactful than they were for two reasons
1--they want to create excuses for our lack of success
2--they want to still be angry about what happened and believing the impact of the sanctions is/was long-lasting helps them do so
The sanctions are largely irrelevant to Franklin's tenure and have absolutely nothing to do with the current team which is still losing to anyone with a pulse
The high school class of 2016 was the first Franklin was allowed to sign 25 incoming freshman to scholarship. If folks don’t think that impacted the roster, then I’ll just disagree.
It’s amazing how well the teams performed under O’Brien and Franklin those years.
It’s amazing how well the teams performed under O’Brien and Franklin those years.
Unless Michigan and OSU get hit by some hard times, Franklin won't win the BIG East, or I guess the BIG since they are doing away with divisions any time soon. Besides those 2, we got Washington, Oregon, and USC joining. 2 of those 3 are top 10ish teams. USC can get there also. Unless Franklin gets his shit together, he will get passed up for third.
This is, perhaps, the dumbest thing I’ve read in a while. And I’ve read A LOT of dumb things lately…
Followed by my first game as a student loss to Cincinnati and then another loss to Iowa. 0-3 after Joe's first Natty.
Chants of "Joe must go!"were heard from the Student Section. I was there.
I'm as frustrated as anyone with James. But he is still a 92% A-. Our talent is catching up. The " Jimmy's and Joe's"excuse is wearing out, in part due to his recruiting success.
We looked utterly pathetic on Saturday against a subpar OSU qb and lesser team than their standard. Yes, we were in the game in the 4th Qtr....even a blind squirrel occasionally gets a worm. We didn't deserve to be there.
James has to LEAD our TEAM to some WINS versus the teams that are now our aspirational peers.
WE ARE in a better place than I thought we'd be in The Dark Years and The Sanctions. But are we satisfied with being perpetual bridesmaids? Peers being Texas A&M, Oregon, Tennessee?
THAT is the angst we feel...and unfortunately where WE ARE. Nobody wants to pull a Nebby/ Frank Solich, but at what point do we give up the naive hope that things will be different against The Big Boys?
Saturday sucked. Move on. Beat Michigan (without stubbing your toe in College Park).
We missed an opportunity Saturday, but not the end of the world.
If I thought we could beat Michigan this year I would agree but I don't. I'm hopeful that changes next year.
If you are seriously comparing Franklin to Joe, you would be laughed out of the room.
Do you even have a scintilla of an idea of how many big games Joe won compared to Franklin? For Christ’s sake, I personally attended more of them in one year than Franklin had in 10.
As for schedules, the current ones are absolute jokes. I attended games against Alabama, Nebraska, Notre Dane, and Pitt in same years when these programs were perennial top-10 programs or better!
The length that some go to make excuses for this guy is amazing. Franklin is a fair coach and a good recruiter. Joe was an all-time great at both and has the results to back it up.
If you are satisfied with second tier results, that’s on you.
Some of us want to see the University to to compete at the highest levels before college football finalizes it’s morphing into minor league football.
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The purpose of my point 1 was not mainly to compare Franklin to Paterno, the latter being arguably the greatest coach in big time college football history. It was to point out that there was a time when even Paterno had fans calling for his head, and that this reached a fever pitch in 1981 after the Bama loss. {This is why the 48-14 win at Pitt later that season when the Panthers were #1 get my vote for biggest win in PSU history|
There were no message boards in 1981, but I can assure you that there was widespread dissatisfaction with Paterno and his inability to get PSU over the top. It had been brewing since 1978.
I could have also mentioned Tom Landry, who spent several years not winning the big game before the Super Bowl after the '72 season. It's a common fan reaction, but there are examples of teams that have been rewarded for staying the course when the fans wanted change.
This doesn't mean we can't point out things Franklin did/does wrong - that's part of being a fan
There were no message boards in 1981, but I can assure you that there was widespread dissatisfaction with Paterno and his inability to get PSU over the top. It had been brewing since 1978.
I could have also mentioned Tom Landry, who spent several years not winning the big game before the Super Bowl after the '72 season. It's a common fan reaction, but there are examples of teams that have been rewarded for staying the course when the fans wanted change.
This doesn't mean we can't point out things Franklin did/does wrong - that's part of being a fan
I love this! Joe also did it when there was no such thing as “defenseless players”. Where qb’s weren’t protected by the “yellow flag”. Joe did it when rules weren’t adjusted to gain additional viewership. Joe did it when kids were tough and aspired to be men of character for their communities! Joe was and is a legend!
And I believe Joe answered the chorus of “Joe must go” with a National Championship in ‘86 against the great Miami where PSU had like a .01% chance of winning, according to the experts. Just saying is all.The purpose of my point 1 was not mainly to compare Franklin to Paterno, the latter being arguably the greatest coach in big time college football history. It was to point out that there was a time when even Paterno had fans calling for his head, and that this reached a fever pitch in 1981 after the Bama loss. {This is why the 48-14 win at Pitt later that season when the Panthers were #1 get my vote for biggest win in PSU history|
There were no message boards in 1981, but I can assure you that there was widespread dissatisfaction with Paterno and his inability to get PSU over the top. It had been brewing since 1978.
I could have also mentioned Tom Landry, who spent several years not winning the big game before the Super Bowl after the '72 season. It's a common fan reaction, but there are examples of teams that have been rewarded for staying the course when the fans wanted change.
This doesn't mean we can't point out things Franklin did/does wrong - that's part of being a fan
The fans called and Joe answered.
Don’t forget 82 when he won his first after a 21 point loss at Alabama. This season ain’t over yet.
Folks were getting antsy to be champs because Joe had us around the top, including undefeated seasons, and playing for NCs. I was spoiled during the glory years but it was a magical ride.The purpose of my point 1 was not mainly to compare Franklin to Paterno, the latter being arguably the greatest coach in big time college football history. It was to point out that there was a time when even Paterno had fans calling for his head, and that this reached a fever pitch in 1981 after the Bama loss. {This is why the 48-14 win at Pitt later that season when the Panthers were #1 get my vote for biggest win in PSU history|
There were no message boards in 1981, but I can assure you that there was widespread dissatisfaction with Paterno and his inability to get PSU over the top. It had been brewing since 1978.
I could have also mentioned Tom Landry, who spent several years not winning the big game before the Super Bowl after the '72 season. It's a common fan reaction, but there are examples of teams that have been rewarded for staying the course when the fans wanted change.
This doesn't mean we can't point out things Franklin did/does wrong - that's part of being a fan
what does a pandemic or conference bias have to do with the sanctions? Also, didn't Joe have to deal with the BIG 2 "bias" for over 10 years?
Dude this is a truly ignorant post. Everyone with a clue knows that years 3 and 4 of the sanctions years would be the toughest. Those would be Franklin’s first 2 years on the job right after O’Brien bailed. O’Brien had the benefit of having some of Paterno’s left over players on the team whereas Franklin had to deal with the full effect of the loss of scholarships kicking in. Geez.
Nothing, the three factors listed are what Franklin has dealt with thus far. Joe dealt with no such impediments in the same stage of his career. On top of that Joe played creampuff schedules in his early years.
The bottom line is when Joe played the big boys in venues like bowl games - he won a lot more than he lost. No major team played this loaded schedule with powerhouses every week. Teams like scum, nebreskas, USC played in conferences where they had one difficult game a year so spare me the cream puff schedule crap.
In the beginning Joe played a regional schedule as everyone across the country did. Soon enough we were playing teams like Alabama and Notre Dame every year. Teams like Nebreskas, Texas, USC, Tennessee, we're on the schedule for games. Further, Pitt was a very competitive team for years as was Syracuse. Boston College and West Virginia were also as competitive as any of the garbage in the Big Ten.
