PIAA 2023 postseason

[El-Jefe]

I was hoping you'd weigh in, thx, and thanks to everyone else who responded.

I'm traveling right now, but when I get home and have a couple minutes, will compare this year's AA vs AAA champs.

Gut says AAA comes ahead this year, but the numbers will be skewed by Kasak (AAA) at NLWC plus some ineligible guys (Bassett + Forrest AA; Kunstek AAA; etc.)

 

[El-Jefe]

If a kid is a 3 or 4 time PA state champ in AAA it certainly was a tougher path than doing it AA.
Both scenarios are impressive but the depth of AAA creates a tougher road.
Bobby Crawford of Milton I believe had Daily Double.
I think he was 2x AA and 2x AAA State Champ.

Crawford was FR AA, then 3x AAA.

Gulibon was the opposite, 2x AAA then his school shrank, 2x AA.

 

[El-Jefe]

Crawford was the strangest of 4xers. He was all arms and legs. He was most dangerous when he was being put on his back. Just when you'd think he was getting pinned, the other guy would be on his back instead. Weird. I saw him wrestle the Nazareth coach's son, Nunamaker maybe? The scoring just kept coming, and somehow Crawford won it 15-11 in OT. (I just looked it up.)

Crawford was like watching Andonian, especially on the mat. Didn't go upper body much. But was more than willing to go to his own back from any position, completely unafraid to give up points.

He got a top 12 seed as a true freshman at Clarion. Too bad his career got derailed by injuries.

 

[District four]

Crawford was the strangest of 4xers. He was all arms and legs. He was most dangerous when he was being put on his back. Just when you'd think he was getting pinned, the other guy would be on his back instead. Weird. I saw him wrestle the Nazareth coach's son, Nunamaker maybe? The scoring just kept coming, and somehow Crawford won it 15-11 in OT. (I just looked it up.)

Tallest and lankiest wrestler I think I ever watched. He was the master of the cradle that kid

 

[El-Jefe]

Tallest and lankiest wrestler I think I ever watched. He was the master of the cradle that kid

Plus the rolling half + tight waist.

He embodied Q's famous quote, somebody's getting pinned right now and I hope it isn't me. Crawford didn't throw opponents like Q did, but he uncorked wild stuff from both top and bottom.

 

[Callthestall]

Crawford was the strangest of 4xers. He was all arms and legs. He was most dangerous when he was being put on his back. Just when you'd think he was getting pinned, the other guy would be on his back instead. Weird. I saw him wrestle the Nazareth coach's son, Nunamaker maybe? The scoring just kept coming, and somehow Crawford won it 15-11 in OT. (I just looked it up.)

Greatest high school match I ever saw was at regionals. Crawford I think lost his first match of his career and had won 120+ in a row. He wrestled Tashner of Nazareth who was very good and funky. Great match ,Tashner hit big move in 3rd period and had Crawford on his back for probably 30 seconds. Crawford squirms ,comes out backside and almost tied match. Tashner stopped his winning streak

 

[oldcougar65]

Greatest high school match I ever saw was at regionals. Crawford I think lost his first match of his career and had won 120+ in a row. He wrestled Tashner of Nazareth who was very good and funky. Great match ,Tashner hit big move in 3rd period and had Crawford on his back for probably 30 seconds. Crawford squirms ,comes out backside and almost tied match. Tashner stopped his winning streak

And Crawford beat Tashner in the state finals in '93.

 

[SheldonJoe2215]

Greatest high school match I ever saw was at regionals. Crawford I think lost his first match of his career and had won 120+ in a row. He wrestled Tashner of Nazareth who was very good and funky. Great match ,Tashner hit big move in 3rd period and had Crawford on his back for probably 30 seconds. Crawford squirms ,comes out backside and almost tied match. Tashner stopped his winning streak

I was there. That was the best high school match that I have ever seen. For some reason, my recollection is that it happened in the semi-finals because it was a morning session at Liberty HS. Although, that could just be my faulty memory.

 

[ChillW]

Church ran out of time for the DQ.

Seriously, PA refs occasionally let that chippiness get out of hand. Recall the Cumberland Valley-Central Dauphin match a few years ago, the one that got a head coach suspended for ordering a DQ win and taunting the other team and its fans. The coaches were to blame, but the ref was way too lax.

I was at that dual. Both head coaches and a couple assistants behaved very poorly. I don't recall much in the way of on-the-mat antics though.

 

[PSU Mike]

Crawford was FR AA, then 3x AAA.

Gulibon was the opposite, 2x AAA then his school shrank, 2x AA.

Like his hands?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Like his hands?

Yes,and his win percentage.

 

[ChillW]

This is the 3rd rail of the wrestling board. Let's try to keep this as clinical as possible -- we have the entire Brock Bronson thread for the emotions of this topic.

AAA is clearly stronger than AA overall. Usually the champs are pretty evenly split (meaning: in any year the AA champ would beat the AAA champ in 5-8 out of 13 weights). Being a repeat champ is probably easier in AA than AAA. It drifts from there. AAA typically would get 5-6 out of the 8 medals in most weights.

Harder to say how that correlates to the college level, because as we've seen with PSU, even multi-time PA state champs aren't always D1 starters. And even then it's not that easy. Jimmy Gulibon (2x AAA champ, 2x AA champ) has the same number of NCAA medals as James English (never reached a PA finals).

Private school participation is definitely still controversial. Not just because of non-boundary, but also because they can more or less recruit. A lot of the controversy is when they remain AA -- especially when Beca crushed AA states + state duals for about a decade before volunteering to go up to AAA.

PIAA could and should create a 3rd division for private schools, at least for state duals, but won't because PIAA (PA agencies move glacially, and half-ass pretty much every move -- not limited to athletics).

Also some non-PA residents have competed for private schools -- Ryan Anderson lived in NJ while attending Beca; Ryan Diehl commuted from WV to Trinity (Camp Hill); etc. PIAA should not let a non-resident compete in PA sports.

PA transferring/recruiting is nothing new. It's been going on for over a half-century. What's new about it is: the schools that raided others before, are now being raided themselves (largely but not entirely by the Catholic schools), and don't like it when they're the prey instead of the predator.

El Jefe is pretty much right-on here. The biggest difference b/w AA and AAA is the same as between PA and most other states. Might similar at the top in most years, but take the 15th or 20th best guy at any weight from AAA and he'll usually beat the similarly ranked AA guy.

I don't like the idea of a separate private school division so much as a competitive balance reallocation between divisions. The bottom 75% of PIAA private schools aren't very good and likely wouldn't field teams for very long if they had to wrestle in a (guesssing) 35 team private school division with 4 or 5 of the top 8 teams in the state.

I am hearing talk of a proposal to split team states into 3 divisions based on enrollment, which seems mind boggling dumb. The bottom division would likely have 33% or more forfeits in most matches.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

El Jefe is pretty much right-on here. The biggest difference b/w AA and AAA is the same as between PA and most other states. Might similar at the top in most years, but take the 15th or 20th best guy at any weight from AAA and he'll usually beat the similarly ranked AA guy.

I don't like the idea of a separate private school division so much as a competitive balance reallocation between divisions. The bottom 75% of PIAA private schools aren't very good and likely wouldn't field teams for very long if they had to wrestle in a (guesssing) 35 team private school division with 4 or 5 of the top 8 teams in the state.

I am hearing talk of a proposal to split team states into 3 divisions based on enrollment, which seems mind boggling dumb. The bottom division would likely have 33% or more forfeits in most matches.

Split the private schools for the dual tournament. Leave ‘em in for the individual tournament and just score them separately.

 

[nitlion6]

El Jefe is pretty much right-on here. The biggest difference b/w AA and AAA is the same as between PA and most other states. Might similar at the top in most years, but take the 15th or 20th best guy at any weight from AAA and he'll usually beat the similarly ranked AA guy.

I don't like the idea of a separate private school division so much as a competitive balance reallocation between divisions. The bottom 75% of PIAA private schools aren't very good and likely wouldn't field teams for very long if they had to wrestle in a (guesssing) 35 team private school division with 4 or 5 of the top 8 teams in the state.

I am hearing talk of a proposal to split team states into 3 divisions based on enrollment, which seems mind boggling dumb. The bottom division would likely have 33% or more forfeits in most matches.

The difference in depth is much more shallow than the 15th or 20th ranked guy.
In AA most often to win states a kid must win one really hard match, maybe once in a while 2.
In AAA there have been years the state champ got seriously challenged in 4 matches. Like the conversation on Friday about AAA semi-finals needing a more featured slot because in the 3 days of wrestling the 4 kids in a AAA semi-final are genuinely tougher than hell and provide the best wrestling.
The difference in depth is noticeable once you start comparing the 3, 4, 5 and lower placers.

 

[El-Jefe]

I was at that dual. Both head coaches and a couple assistants behaved very poorly. I don't recall much in the way of on-the-mat antics though.

The wrestlers were pretty well behaved. Much better than their supposed adult leaders.

What I meant in the other post was: there were a couple incidental eye pokes/face slaps. This was before hands to the face was illegal, so some was to be expected. One of the eye pokes, later in the dual, was pretty blatant. That wasn't the last one ... the intentional DQ was an incidental eye poke.

The coaches acted each time as if somebody shot their dog. It was bound to escalate, at least with the coaches if not the wrestlers. The ref could've stepped in and laid down the law with everybody at any point in the match, and didn't.

 

[ChillW]

The difference in depth is much more shallow than the 15th or 20th ranked guy.
In AA most often to win states a kid must win one really hard match, maybe once in a while 2.
In AAA there have been years the state champ got seriously challenged in 4 matches. Like the conversation on Friday about AAA semi-finals needing a more featured slot because in the 3 days of wrestling the 4 kids in a AAA semi-final are genuinely tougher than hell and provide the best wrestling.
The difference in depth is noticeable once you start comparing the 3, 4, 5 and lower placers.

I don't think the drop off is quite as high as 3 or 4 anymore with multiple superteams in AA, but it definitely starts a lot lower than my example. My point was by #15 (maybe closer to #10) I think AAA kids typically run a clean sweep over AA guys and most would be really ugly beatdowns

 

[ChillW]

The wrestlers were pretty well behaved. Much better than their supposed adult leaders.

What I meant in the other post was: there were a couple incidental eye pokes/face slaps. This was before hands to the face was illegal, so some was to be expected. One of the eye pokes, later in the dual, was pretty blatant. That wasn't the last one ... the intentional DQ was an incidental eye poke.

The coaches acted each time as if somebody shot their dog. It was bound to escalate, at least with the coaches if not the wrestlers. The ref could've stepped in and laid down the law with everybody at any point in the match, and didn't.

Yeah... I thought one or both headcoaches could and probably should have been tossed part way through. One was at the scorer's table dropping some choice words at someone in the stands and the refs did nothing to discourwge him.

 

[El-Jefe]

AAA vs AA champ comparison by weight:
- AAA: 107 (Dillard over Seidel), 114 (Desmond over Smith), 127 (Kilkeary over Hornack), 139 (Rath over Evanitsky), 145 (Gaj over Bouzakis), 152 (Watters over Harer), 172 (Welsh over Waters)
- AA: 160 (MacKay over Evans), 189 (Lawrence over Tucker)
- toss-up: 121 (Nasdeo/Botero), 133 (Simcox/Pepe), 215 (Sasso/Johnson), 285 (Kinney/Robell)
- affected by ineligibles/injuries: 114 (Bassett AA beats Desmond, Desmond beats Gill AA); 121 (Forrest AA beats Nasdeo, Jacaruso AAA toss-up with Botero but loses to Forrest); 160 (Kunstek AAA beats MacKay)

Kasak (AAA) would've likely gone 145 (with teammate Rath at 139). He would beat Bouzakis, but that wouldn't affect the list above.

So I'd have it AAA 7-2 with 4 toss-ups. If all of the injured/ineligible guys went, it would be AAA 7-3 with 3 toss-ups.

Some of these might be very close or flip in live action, but I looked up H2H and common opponents.

 

[El-Jefe]

I theorize, and could really test it with historic data (I do not have), that if there were instead an equal number of male students in AA/AAA rather than schools, the quality of achievements after high school would be about even (this would fix for school population disparity).

This would strengthen AA, at least with depth. Though it might have little effect on AAA -- gut says the AAA finalists primarily come from either the biggest schools (300+/grade) or from the private schools like Beca and Erie Prep.

Also, the schools that voluntarily bump up from AA to AAA would likely continue to (such as Waynesburg, 130/grade). And others that might get downgraded, would voluntarily stay AAA -- for example, cannot imagine Northampton going AA regardless of class size.

 

[nitlion6]

This would strengthen AA, at least with depth. Though it might have little effect on AAA -- gut says the AAA finalists primarily come from either the biggest schools (300+/grade) or from the private schools like Beca and Erie Prep.

Also, the schools that voluntarily bump up from AA to AAA would likely continue to (such as Waynesburg, 130/grade). And others that might get downgraded, would voluntarily stay AAA -- for example, cannot imagine Northampton going AA regardless of class size.

I never thought I would see Philipsburg-Osceola or Bald Eagle Area drop down to AA.

 

[El-Jefe]

Guesses at AAA vs AA medalists if single class -- with notables who missed the postseason:
- 107: AAA 5 (Dillard, Sirianni, Martinelli, Sloboda, Weaver); AA 3 (Seidel, Deputy, Detar)

- 114: AAA 5 (Desmond, Wagner, Sallot, Willochell, Williams); AA 3 (Smith, Bainey, Pesarchik). Fanella (AA) maybe makes it on a good day.
** Bassett and Gill (AA) would both place, but IMO Willochell beats Bainey and Pisarchik, so no change to the numbers.

- 121: AAA 5 (Nasdeo, Ziegler, Johnson, Tocci, Joling/Houser); AA 3 (Botero, Harer, Wentzel).
** Jacaruso (AAA) and Forrest (AA) both place. Wentzel still places, so 4-4 split.

- 127: AAA 6 (Kilkeary, Binni, Sement, Parkins, Cunningham, Mack); AA 2 (Hornack, Vargo)
** Weiss (AAA) and Gibson (AA) both would've placed. Probably no change to numbers.

- 133: AAA 5 (Simcox, Shaw, Ferraro, Lebin, McIntyre); AA 3 (Pepe, Heckman, Johnson)

- 139: Top 3 at both would place (AAA Rath, Manville, Perry; AA Evanitsky, Milheim, Hontz). Toss-up after that.

- 145: AAA 5 (Gaj, Church, Repos, Cunningham, Walizer); AA 3 (Bouzakis, Milheim, Wirnsberger)
** Kasak (AAA) would've placed. Walizer likely bumped, no change to numbers.

- 152: Top 3 at both would place (AAA Watters, Garvick, Condomitti; AA Harer, Milheim, Weidemoyer). I would lean AAA for the other 2 spots, but nobody is compelling.

- 160: AAA 5 (Evans, Taylor, Harmon, Frontino, Sadriddinov); AA 2 (MacKay, Hohman). Would lean AAA for the 8th spot, but nobody compelling.
** Kunstek (AAA) and Christie (AA) would've placed. We'll call it 6-2 for AAA.

- 172: AAA 6 (Welsh, Furman, Wheatley, Myers, Thomas, Hogan); AA 2 (Waters, Garcia).
** Barnes (AA) would've placed, 5-3 AAA.

- 189: AAA 5 (Hogan, Bartram, Evans, Packer, Gacek); AA (Lawrence, Zimmerman, Gilfoil)
** Garcia (AA) would've placed, probably bumping Gacek --> 4-4

- 215: AAA 5 (Sasso, Bechtold, Pardo, Makel, Garcia); AA 3 (Johnson, Morgan, Church)

- 285: AAA 5 (Kinney, Pavlechko, Schmick, Enick, Schneck); AA 3 (Robell, Compton, Ulrich)

 

[donboy6499]

This would strengthen AA, at least with depth. Though it might have little effect on AAA -- gut says the AAA finalists primarily come from either the biggest schools (300+/grade) or from the private schools like Beca and Erie Prep.

Also, the schools that voluntarily bump up from AA to AAA would likely continue to (such as Waynesburg, 130/grade). And others that might get downgraded, would voluntarily stay AAA -- for example, cannot imagine Northampton going AA regardless of class size.

Likely true, all of your post.

Like you, I expect a similar amount of talent/achievements to continue to come from AAA winners. AA would strengthen. That strength, not all of it but a lot, would come from present placers at AAA that might otherwise win AA or place higher.

In other words, depth hurt at AAA, overall picture improved at AA.

*all presuming schools stay at enrollment level and don’t voluntarily move up.

 

[donboy6499]

Guesses at AAA vs AA medalists if single class -- with notables who missed the postseason:
- 107: AAA 5 (Dillard, Sirianni, Martinelli, Sloboda, Weaver); AA 3 (Seidel, Deputy, Detar)

- 114: AAA 5 (Desmond, Wagner, Sallot, Willochell, Williams); AA 3 (Smith, Bainey, Pesarchik). Fanella (AA) maybe makes it on a good day.
** Bassett and Gill (AA) would both place, but IMO Willochell beats Bainey and Pisarchik, so no change to the numbers.

- 121: AAA 5 (Nasdeo, Ziegler, Johnson, Tocci, Joling/Houser); AA 3 (Botero, Harer, Wentzel).
** Jacaruso (AAA) and Forrest (AA) both place. Wentzel still places, so 4-4 split.

- 127: AAA 6 (Kilkeary, Binni, Sement, Parkins, Cunningham, Mack); AA 2 (Hornack, Vargo)
** Weiss (AAA) and Gibson (AA) both would've placed. Probably no change to numbers.

- 133: AAA 5 (Simcox, Shaw, Ferraro, Lebin, McIntyre); AA 3 (Pepe, Heckman, Johnson)

- 139: Top 3 at both would place (AAA Rath, Manville, Perry; AA Evanitsky, Milheim, Hontz). Toss-up after that.

- 145: AAA 5 (Gaj, Church, Repos, Cunningham, Walizer); AA 3 (Bouzakis, Milheim, Wirnsberger)
** Kasak (AAA) would've placed. Walizer likely bumped, no change to numbers.

- 152: Top 3 at both would place (AAA Watters, Garvick, Condomitti; AA Harer, Milheim, Weidemoyer). I would lean AAA for the other 2 spots, but nobody is compelling.

- 160: AAA 5 (Evans, Taylor, Harmon, Frontino, Sadriddinov); AA 2 (MacKay, Hohman). Would lean AAA for the 8th spot, but nobody compelling.
** Kunstek (AAA) and Christie (AA) would've placed. We'll call it 6-2 for AAA.

- 172: AAA 6 (Welsh, Furman, Wheatley, Myers, Thomas, Hogan); AA 2 (Waters, Garcia).
** Barnes (AA) would've placed, 5-3 AAA.

- 189: AAA 5 (Hogan, Bartram, Evans, Packer, Gacek); AA (Lawrence, Zimmerman, Gilfoil)
** Garcia (AA) would've placed, probably bumping Gacek --> 4-4

- 215: AAA 5 (Sasso, Bechtold, Pardo, Makel, Garcia); AA 3 (Johnson, Morgan, Church)

- 285: AAA 5 (Kinney, Pavlechko, Schmick, Enick, Schneck); AA 3 (Robell, Compton, Ulrich)

It’s funny, and I agree with you, but these numbers track very closely to total male enrollment differences.

4/4, even 5/3 indicates higher quality (or just more placers) per capita from AA.

Again, would have to break down by school to be more specific on where they actually come from.

 

[El-Jefe]

Likely true, all of your post.

Like you, I expect a similar amount of talent/achievements to continue to come from AAA winners. AA would strengthen. That strength, not all of it but a lot, would come from present placers at AAA that might otherwise win AA or place higher.

In other words, depth hurt at AAA, overall picture improved at AA.

*all presuming schools stay at enrollment level and don’t voluntarily move up.

A good exercise, which I'm far too lay to do, would be to see which lower-enrollment AAA schools produce how many placers, thus would impact AA more. (Not including the voluntary bump-ups like Beca, Waynesburg, and Erie Prep.)

I saw the document containing all enrollment data when reclassification was last done, not recalling exactly where, guessing somewhere on the PIAA website.

Jersey Shore and Hickory immediately come to mind -- both had AA placers last year who placed again this year in AAA. Coincidentally or otherwise, both have easy access to top clubs (M2 and Bad Karma respectively).

 

[El-Jefe]

4/4, even 5/3 indicates higher quality (or just more placers) per capita from AA.

Maybe, Some of those weights, somebody's gotta place.

I suspect that if we took it down 1 more round, AAA would thoroughly dominate R12. As in, 3-1 AAA might be a good weight for AA. Again, too lazy to do that myself.

Another factor would be how many we allowed per weight class. If we combined all 40 AAA/AA into one tourney, that would skew results toward AAA -- they're generally better tested in bigger regular season tourneys.

 

[raslen007]

I was at that dual. Both head coaches and a couple assistants behaved very poorly. I don't recall much in the way of on-the-mat antics though.

Was this the district lll finals at the Milton Hershey school gym. I seem to recall Swags and Hechert jawing at each other. Hechert was strutting around like a rooster. Extremely sad display by both sides.

 

[raslen007]

El Jefe is pretty much right-on here. The biggest difference b/w AA and AAA is the same as between PA and most other states. Might similar at the top in most years, but take the 15th or 20th best guy at any weight from AAA and he'll usually beat the similarly ranked AA guy.

I don't like the idea of a separate private school division so much as a competitive balance reallocation between divisions. The bottom 75% of PIAA private schools aren't very good and likely wouldn't field teams for very long if they had to wrestle in a (guesssing) 35 team private school division with 4 or 5 of the top 8 teams in the state.

I am hearing talk of a proposal to split team states into 3 divisions based on enrollment, which seems mind boggling dumb. The bottom division would likely have 33% or more forfeits in most matches.

I could handle it the private schools participate in the individual tourny but not the teams.

 

[SpikingWhamos]

I'm not sure of the HS rule any more, but the college rule intended to stop intentional stalemates:

If top throws in legs and then bottom stands to force a stalemate, that's bottom stalling. If bottom stands and then top throws in legs to force a stalemate, that's top stalling.

In both cases, ref gives a stalemate the first time, and tells the wrestler next time you get dinged.

Calling that against bottom in the stall-out periods seems awful, though. Also when that wasn't the sequence.

This isn't true anymore, right? Top mans responsibility to return, always?

 

[El-Jefe]

This isn't true anymore, right? Top mans responsibility to return, always?

No -- and part of that is me using the wrong term. It's not about stalemates, it's about repeated potentially dangerous calls.

 

[James Toney]

Kline 5th AA 215 beat Makel twice this past summer, Makel never scored one TD in both matches. Honestly AA 215 Johnson just different level than the rest. You run that back and i guarantee that 215 pound bracket would be completely different besides Johnson. So many of those guys are always 1-2 point matches that also many get decided in OT, and also are winning and losing against each other. Garcia whooped Kline over summer, but that was freestyle. Great list BTW. Just stating 215 AA to me most those guys interchangeable depending on the day.

 

[CropDuster507]

You know what's wild about that 160 situation is that I got in a spirited discussion about it earlier in the year, and when I explained that I was pretty sure it's stalling on bottom for standing up with a leg in, they vehemently denied it and got spirited with me. Folkstyle rules allow too much for the top wrestler.

Out of Bounds stalling in rear standing should be called on top wrestler more. They are in "control", after all. Bottom wrestler only gets called if they run straight out of bounds and make no attempt to turn in. It's real obvious if bottom tried to stay on the competition surface. Stop rewarding top wrestler for leaving the surface to gain an advantage (restart from referee's).

 

[a_mshaffer]

I never thought I would see Philipsburg-Osceola or Bald Eagle Area drop down to AA.

and Clearfield... no coal, brickyards...

 

[a_mshaffer]

and Clearfield... no coal, brickyards...

 

[Raw Daddy]

This is the 3rd rail of the wrestling board. Let's try to keep this as clinical as possible -- we have the entire Brock Bronson thread for the emotions of this topic.

AAA is clearly stronger than AA overall. Usually the champs are pretty evenly split (meaning: in any year the AA champ would beat the AAA champ in 5-8 out of 13 weights). Being a repeat champ is probably easier in AA than AAA. It drifts from there. AAA typically would get 5-6 out of the 8 medals in most weights.

Harder to say how that correlates to the college level, because as we've seen with PSU, even multi-time PA state champs aren't always D1 starters. And even then it's not that easy. Jimmy Gulibon (2x AAA champ, 2x AA champ) has the same number of NCAA medals as James English (never reached a PA finals).

Private school participation is definitely still controversial. Not just because of non-boundary, but also because they can more or less recruit. A lot of the controversy is when they remain AA -- especially when Beca crushed AA states + state duals for about a decade before volunteering to go up to AAA.

PIAA could and should create a 3rd division for private schools, at least for state duals, but won't because PIAA (PA agencies move glacially, and half-ass pretty much every move -- not limited to athletics).

Also some non-PA residents have competed for private schools -- Ryan Anderson lived in NJ while attending Beca; Ryan Diehl commuted from WV to Trinity (Camp Hill); etc. PIAA should not let a non-resident compete in PA sports.

PA transferring/recruiting is nothing new. It's been going on for over a half-century. What's new about it is: the schools that raided others before, are now being raided themselves (largely but not entirely by the Catholic schools), and don't like it when they're the prey instead of the predator.

I love the BrockBronson feelings like this has never happened before. Does he really think those Canon Mac/Central Dauphin teams were homegrown? It's just where the kids accumulated. Sometimes that's easier at a private school, sometimes it's cheaper.

 

[El-Jefe]

I love the BrockBronson feelings like this has never happened before. Does he really think those Canon Mac/Central Dauphin teams were homegrown? It's just where the kids accumulated. Sometimes that's easier at a private school, sometimes it's cheaper.

We could list dozens of teams across the state, covering every district. Some would hit very close to home for some posters.

There's no need to do that. Suffice it to say, the practice is and has been widespread for longer than many here have been alive.

Though one fairly recent wrestler (early 2010s state champ) supposedly self-recruited multiple transfers across the state (including one time his dad "bought a hot dog cart" 2 hrs from home), and each time his outgoing school signed the transfer papers faster than he did. So it can work both ways.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Was williams wearing PSU gear? We already have Nasedo, Wentzel, Gibson, Davis and mostly likely Lilledahl coming in.

He can wear Pittsburgh Steelers gear - he has about the same chance to compete for either team

 

[BrockBronson]

He can wear Pittsburgh Steelers gear - he has about the same chance to compete for either team

Now this is funny

 

[316_Lyons]

Was this the district lll finals at the Milton Hershey school gym. I seem to recall Swags and Hechert jawing at each other. Hechert was strutting around like a rooster. Extremely sad display by both sides.

 

[tikk10]

Good piece on Rokfin by Scott Green (Army asst coach) ranking the various HS tournaments. I won't paste the entire thing but here's how it begins.

The end of the year event that determines the best of the best. Whether you call it “States” (because you are normal) or “State” (because you ignore the conventions of the English language) it is a tourney that everyone strives to get to and should be treated accordingly.

As a long time HS coach and current college coach, I have had the opportunity to attend many different State tournaments over the years. Here are my rankings, followed by some thoughts on all of them

1- New Jersey.
2- California
3- National Preps
4- Ohio
5- Pennsylvania
6- New York

 

[ChillW]

I wouldn't run the title matches concurrently. Each finals match should stand on its own. (And that's something I don't like about the current format of 1/3/5/7 all at once -- although at least that's not two finals together.)

Need more fans before thinking about bigger venues.

I would prefer just the 2 finals matches at once over 4 placements at once.