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Predict: What punishments will be handed out in Deflategate?

Should Tom Brady be kept out of the Hall of Fame? They do this in baseball with proven cheaters. Heck, Pete Rose is still out of the Hall of Fame. The roid-aided players of baseball held a similar against the rules competitive advantage on opponents and their accomplishments all have an asterisk. A QB doesn't need roids, but better grip would be an incredible advantage.

On a separate note, I wonder if the Pats had a statistical advantage on fumbles as well as INTs. Seems grip would play some part in both.
 
Predict the punishments that will be handed out to the following folks:

  • Patriots Organization / Robert Kraft
  • Bill Belichick
  • Tom Brady

This isn't what would YOU do. This is what do you THINK the NFL WILL do. Closest answer to reality wins. Punishments can be both financial and games and anything else that would be on the table.
I think they should allow whatever inflation the Pats want to use, but that ALL Pats kicking should be done with the same ball Brady throws.
 
Brady was cited as not cooperating with the report. He would not allow access to his phone or email that would have been allowed to be looked at first by his attorney. He lied about knowledge of it. They need to come down hard on him for their own credibility.
 
Predict the punishments that will be handed out to the following folks:

  • Patriots Organization / Robert Kraft
  • Bill Belichick
  • Tom Brady

This isn't what would YOU do. This is what do you THINK the NFL WILL do. Closest answer to reality wins. Punishments can be both financial and games and anything else that would be on the table.


What will they get? A cumulative fine of $1 million and suspension for 4 games...


Since this was their second major offense, what would I do as commissioner?

1. I would have given them no picks in the 2015 draft (last week)
2. I would suspend Brady & Belichick for the 2015 season
 
It is clear he asked for it based on the text messages and the fact he would not let them see his phone and email. He needs to own it now and if he does 6 game suspension possibly reduce to 4. If he denies it again to the NFL 1 year. He needs to stop lying about it. Sean Payton got 1 year for lying about Bountygate. The good news is Troy Vincent not Patriot lackey Gooddell decides punishment.
 
The Fivethirtyeight website has some more info on deflategate from a statistical standpoint. The Pats fumble rate is off-the-charts low:

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http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/fivethirtyeight-dissects-the-deflategate-report/
 
It's going to fall somewhere in the middle of those that want the Patriots to pay a basic NFL death penalty cost vs those that think it should be a game for Brady and nothing more(factoring the fines in doesn't even matter, nobody is getting crippled by fines in this conversation). That game is a pretty huge one though. As a Steelers fan I would actually prefer they play the Champs at full strength and legal footballs.

The fumble numbers are staggering. I still wouldn't be surprised with 4-8 games for Brady and maybe a little for the Patriots org.

Those fumble stats though are way beyond anything that could be considered a coincidence. That might be where Brady's preference truly became an extreme "competitive advantage". Don't think any football was going to impact Brady's greatness that much. It actually impacts the catch more than the throw itself. I find it hard to believe that Belichick didn't have a clue given his nature but he is clean in this I think penalty wise.

I've always liked Brady and just wish he didn't do this. Some of the talk I think is over the top but he should just stop making stuff up. Sean Payton was screwed when he was given a full season. Definitely don't think Brady deserves that either even though he is probably where most of the blame lies.
 
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I am starting to wonder if he might get the full season. Bill Polian knows something, you could tell by the way he talked on Mike&Mike. It's going to be a really big smack.
 
I'm not seeing any of that. Wanting the footballs deflated does not mean deflated under the minimum. He said he did nothing illegal with the balls. A truth. He never asked that balls be under inflated just not at high end of scale. He wanted the footballs as low as possible. No where does it prove he wanted to break the rules. Take your pitchfork and shove it up your ass.

Are you one of those who also argued that Bill Clinton was telling the truth when he said there is not a sexual relationship with Monica Lewinski?
 
Let help you here. He knew the equipment manager (he said he did not). The equipment manager knew Brady liked the balls under inflated - below the legal 12.5psi. If Brady didn't know the equipment manager, then how the hell did he know Brady liked the balls under 12.5psi? Answer - Brady knew the equipment manager well enough to have told the equipment manager that he liked the balls under the 12.5psi. Therefore Brady lied during his multiple press conferences, lied to his coach, lied to Kraft, lied to the investigators, and thereby lied to The NFL. This is not a joke... he should get 4 - 6 games. The Patriots did not do all of this to even the playing field, they did all of these things to gain a competitive advantage over their opponents.

Now where do you want that pitchfork placed?

On top of that, the NFL asked him for his text messages and he refused to give it to them. Don't withhold critical evidence and then whine about the results of the investigation. Although Brady cannot be legally required to turn over the text messages to the NFL, he can expect that the Investigators (and everyone else) will assume the worst with respect to the content of the text messages. I truly believe the texts contain the "smoking gun" that shows Brady's direct involvement. As a result, the texts will never see the light of day.
 
Polian is right this was sneaky and deliberate. The Pats and Brady have not fully cooperated. Their fumble rates are ridiculously low per 537. They have gained an advantage by being sneaky and cheating again. They need to pay. If Brady does not cooperate and does not stop lying and own it then 1 year. Don't give me the probably everybody knows he was in on it. There is enough circumstantial evidence to suspend.
 
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Polian is right this was sneaky and deliberate. The Pats and Brady have not fully cooperated. Their fumble rates are ridiculously low per 537. They have gained an advantage by being sneaky and cheating again. They need to pay. If Brady does not cooperate and does not stop lying and own it then 1 year. Don't give me the probably everybody knows he was in on it. There is enough circumstantial evidence to suspend.

Oh he's getting suspended. Just how long? He made this so much worse. Polian's description of it definitely painted it in the worse possible light. And he is still a league mouthpiece.

I think anything is on the table. No way they strip the Super Bowl but aside from that it could get ugly. Kraft might be buddies with Goodell but his initial reactions might come back to haunt the organization too. The league has proven to be almost spiteful @ times.

Like I said I like Tom Brady and think he is all time great either way but this is pretty bad.
 
Having now read the report I would say:

Patriots Organization - For allowing employees to break the rule, or not properly supervising employees so that rules were broken (culture anyone?): Max Fine - I think that may only be $500,000. Loss of multiple draft picks next year including a 1st round pick. [Spy Gate penalty was $250K and loss of either a 1st (if Pats made the playoff) or 2nd and 3rd if Pats missed the playoffs.]

Additionally: For not fully cooperating with the investigation by not having the the guy who did the deflation at the AFC Championship game appear for a requested 2nd interview after the forensic work was done on the telephones and the text messages were recovered. Another Max Fine and an additional loss of a 1st round pick the following year.

I would also have them pay the cost of the Wells Report - probably another $250K or more.

Brady - Max Fine ($500,000 if that is it) Suspension for 4 games for knowingly participating in efforts to break the rule, and an additional 4 games for not cooperating fully with the investigation process by turning over his telephone as requested. Losing 8 games pay is not going to send the Bradys to the poor house, but it does effectively increase the "fine" to several million dollars.

I do not see how the NFL can really do much less in light of the Spy Gate penalties and the statements made at the time, and the relative weight of this issue vis a vis say a player getting a 4 game suspension for failing a recreational drug test.

Additionally, the Patriots messed with league folks and intentionally set out to break the rules - again. Per the Report, the week before the game the Colts notified NFL Rules and Security folks that they suspected the Patriots of using underinflated balls and that they wanted special precautions taken to ensure that the balls used in the game complied with the requirements. The Report refers to a heated discussion in the Press Box between the Colts GM and NFL personnel when, during the 1st half of the game the Colts took possession of an under-inflated ball following an interception and informed the refs, Colts team officials and NFL Security. I think we can pretty well guess what was said.

The game officials also were put into a bad position (that may come back to haunt the Patriots too). The Report describes how the head official was basically frantically searching for the game balls minutes before the start of the game, and of course, they look like idiots for not suspecting something fishy going on -- but realistically do you think they could tell a nationwide audience waiting for a kick off - "wait we just need a few minutes here to do some testing of air pressure on these balls"

Finally, it is clear from the report that this was not a one time thing. It obviously went on for multiple games this past season and even before (in a text message in the prior off-season the guy refers to himself as the deflator).

-------------

Having said all the above, == The rule itself seems ill advised to me. Given all the other stuff they let the teams do to "prepare" game balls it seems like they should either: (a) let the teams prepare the balls anyway they like with the exclusion of putting any sticky substance on it or changing the shape/dimensions; or (b) Have the NFL provide the game balls prepared in some consistent way - sort of like how umpires prepare baseballs for games. Players and teams could have input on how the league should prepare the balls, but other than that -- play with the game balls brought by the refs.

As an aside: The description in the report of all the effort teams go into to prepare the game balls is pretty interesting. The literally spend several hours prepping each ball. The Report is very clear that Brady was very interested in the inflation level of game balls.
 
No punishment for anyone. The reports conclusion that Brady "more likely than not" knew the balls were deflated could not have used weaker more tepid language. And that's because there is no hard evidence and no smoking gun against Brady. I am not suggesting he is blameless. Just suggesting the hard evidence is not there.
But even if we concede there is evidence, IMHO the Pats got no meaningful advantage by having under inflated balls. So the punishment needs to fit the crime. I would liken this to the many WR's who violate the rules on "stickem". Should guys like Beckam be suspended ? Of course not.
Two final points. First, if someone should be punished I vote for Kraft. He should set the tone for the organization and if they continue then I say the buck stops with Kraft. Second, IMHO not only will there be no punishment but within the next 3 years the rule will be changed to allow the teams to inflate the balls to any level they desire.
 
Having now read the report I would say:

Patriots Organization - For allowing employees to break the rule, or not properly supervising employees so that rules were broken (culture anyone?): Max Fine - I think that may only be $500,000. Loss of multiple draft picks next year including a 1st round pick. [Spy Gate penalty was $250K and loss of either a 1st (if Pats made the playoff) or 2nd and 3rd if Pats missed the playoffs.]

Additionally: For not fully cooperating with the investigation by not having the the guy who did the deflation at the AFC Championship game appear for a requested 2nd interview after the forensic work was done on the telephones and the text messages were recovered. Another Max Fine and an additional loss of a 1st round pick the following year.

I would also have them pay the cost of the Wells Report - probably another $250K or more.

Brady - Max Fine ($500,000 if that is it) Suspension for 4 games for knowingly participating in efforts to break the rule, and an additional 4 games for not cooperating fully with the investigation process by turning over his telephone as requested. Losing 8 games pay is not going to send the Bradys to the poor house, but it does effectively increase the "fine" to several million dollars.

I do not see how the NFL can really do much less in light of the Spy Gate penalties and the statements made at the time, and the relative weight of this issue vis a vis say a player getting a 4 game suspension for failing a recreational drug test.

Additionally, the Patriots messed with league folks and intentionally set out to break the rules - again. Per the Report, the week before the game the Colts notified NFL Rules and Security folks that they suspected the Patriots of using underinflated balls and that they wanted special precautions taken to ensure that the balls used in the game complied with the requirements. The Report refers to a heated discussion in the Press Box between the Colts GM and NFL personnel when, during the 1st half of the game the Colts took possession of an under-inflated ball following an interception and informed the refs, Colts team officials and NFL Security. I think we can pretty well guess what was said.

The game officials also were put into a bad position (that may come back to haunt the Patriots too). The Report describes how the head official was basically frantically searching for the game balls minutes before the start of the game, and of course, they look like idiots for not suspecting something fishy going on -- but realistically do you think they could tell a nationwide audience waiting for a kick off - "wait we just need a few minutes here to do some testing of air pressure on these balls"

Finally, it is clear from the report that this was not a one time thing. It obviously went on for multiple games this past season and even before (in a text message in the prior off-season the guy refers to himself as the deflator).

-------------

Having said all the above, == The rule itself seems ill advised to me. Given all the other stuff they let the teams do to "prepare" game balls it seems like they should either: (a) let the teams prepare the balls anyway they like with the exclusion of putting any sticky substance on it or changing the shape/dimensions; or (b) Have the NFL provide the game balls prepared in some consistent way - sort of like how umpires prepare baseballs for games. Players and teams could have input on how the league should prepare the balls, but other than that -- play with the game balls brought by the refs.

As an aside: The description in the report of all the effort teams go into to prepare the game balls is pretty interesting. The literally spend several hours prepping each ball. The Report is very clear that Brady was very interested in the inflation level of game balls.

Brady gets two games and the Pats get a token fine. You read the Wells report. It's obvious PSI decreased. About .4 per ball from halftime to end of the game. If Walt Anderson is telling the truth and he tested them all. The Pats balls at halftime should have been 12.1

According to one of the testers they came in at
1. 11.8
2. 11.2
3. 11.5
4. 11.0
5. 11.45
6. 11.95
7. 12.30 Guess Deflator missed that one.
8. 11.55
9. 11.35
10. 10.9
11. 11.35

So, you're telling me there is a discernible advantage in a ball at 12.1 compared to those eleven?
 
Brady gets two games and the Pats get a token fine. You read the Wells report. It's obvious PSI decreased. About .4 per ball from halftime to end of the game. If Walt Anderson is telling the truth and he tested them all. The Pats balls at halftime should have been 12.1

According to one of the testers they came in at
1. 11.8
2. 11.2
3. 11.5
4. 11.0
5. 11.45
6. 11.95
7. 12.30 Guess Deflator missed that one.
8. 11.55
9. 11.35
10. 10.9
11. 11.35

So, you're telling me there is a discernible advantage in a ball at 12.1 compared to those eleven?

It's going to be a lot worse. No advantage for Brady but the numbers cause pause. HUGE pause or should. Or the manipulative nature of It all. I've always liked Brady but he f'd it up in a big way here. 2 games? Ok, we will see.
 
It's going to be a lot worse. No advantage for Brady but the numbers cause pause. HUGE pause or should. Or the manipulative nature of It all. I've always liked Brady but he f'd it up in a big way here. 2 games? Ok, we will see.

Do you think a pitcher who used pine-tar, a la Michael Pineda, should have gotten 40-80 games? He got 10? Doctored ball. And, they caught him in the act. He got 10 games. The reports says Belichick and Kraft didn't know about this. What basis are you punishing the Pats, if the report doesn't implicate them? Doesn't make sense.
 
Do you think a pitcher who used pine-tar, a la Michael Pineda, should have gotten 40-80 games? He got 10? Doctored ball. And, they caught him in the act. He got 10 games. The reports says Belichick and Kraft didn't know about this. What basis are you punishing the Pats, if the report doesn't implicate them? Doesn't make sense.

I like Tom Brady and I like that organization. I truly think the moron running the league is what will cost you as a fan and the org. I do think Belichick probably knew but that is my opinion. The report used roundabout terms to implicate and there is no doubt unless you are crazy.

I just don't get why they did it. Brady isn't tarnished to me he is just dumber than I thought. The self appointed "God" of the league is bringing a huge blow.
 
And to the baseball question, no. It doesn't impact literally every offensive play. The football itself is different and having that advantage is huge. Yeah some individuals cheat at the plate but this was orchestrated.
 
I like Tom Brady and I like that organization. I truly think the moron running the league is what will cost you as a fan and the org. I do think Belichichick probably knew but that is my opinion. The report used roundabout terms to implicate.

I just don't get why they did it. Brady isn't tarnished to me he is just dumber than I thought. The self appointed "God" of the league is bringing a huge blow.

Without McNally going into the bathroom, they have nothing. Who turned that footage over to the NFL? The Pats did. This is Brady/Equip guys. No more. Belichick actually freezes and gets the balls wet for practices. That's how you cut down on fumbles. He benched a 1000 yard rusher for fumbling. Stevan Ridley.
 
I like you and most of what you say but I am bowing out. My point was what the league will do something harsh here, more harsh than I would want for sure. Kind of ruins our Thursday Night.
 
No punishment for anyone. The reports conclusion that Brady "more likely than not" knew the balls were deflated could not have used weaker more tepid language. And that's because there is no hard evidence and no smoking gun against Brady. I am not suggesting he is blameless. Just suggesting the hard evidence is not there.
But even if we concede there is evidence, IMHO the Pats got no meaningful advantage by having under inflated balls. So the punishment needs to fit the crime. I would liken this to the many WR's who violate the rules on "stickem". Should guys like Beckam be suspended ? Of course not.
Two final points. First, if someone should be punished I vote for Kraft. He should set the tone for the organization and if they continue then I say the buck stops with Kraft. Second, IMHO not only will there be no punishment but within the next 3 years the rule will be changed to allow the teams to inflate the balls to any level they desire.

It's not a court of law, it's a private organization, and circumstantial evidence (of which there is plenty) is all the burden of proof needed. The smoking gun you're seeking in all likelihood was on Brady's phone, which he refused to hand over. As for gaining no meaningful advantage, even if you ignore the fumble statistic, if there was no meaningful advantage gained, then why do it? The only logical conclusion one could draw is that Brady believed there to be a meaningful advantage by having balls deflated below the minimum allowed by the rules.
 
It's not a court of law, it's a private organization, and circumstantial evidence (of which there is plenty) is all the burden of proof needed. The smoking gun you're seeking in all likelihood was on Brady's phone, which he refused to hand over. As for gaining no meaningful advantage, even if you ignore the fumble statistic, if there was no meaningful advantage gained, then why do it? The only logical conclusion one could draw is that Brady believed there to be a meaningful advantage by having balls deflated below the minimum allowed by the rules.

What conclusion does the league use for deciding on a range of 12.5-13.5? That's what Wilson suggested in the 1930's. Not like anything has changed since then:)
 
What conclusion does the league use for deciding on a range of 12.5-13.5? That's what Wilson suggested in the 1930's. Not like anything has changed since then:)

Boston fans are funny. Their team breaks a rule, and it's the rule that's the problem and not their breaking it.
 
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Boston fans are funny. Their team breaks a rule, and it's the rule that's the problem and not their breaking it.

I've got no problem with him getting a game or two. Why does the NFL let qb's go nuts on the handling of the footballs? Then, go wacky if it drops from 12.1 to 11.5 or so?? One of the refs had 3/4 of the Colts balls under 12.5 at halftime. Yet, they didn't put any air back in them. Such an important issue. Boggles my mind
 
But even if we concede there is evidence, IMHO the Pats got no meaningful advantage by having under inflated balls. So the punishment needs to fit the crime.


No meaningful advantage? I guess you haven't seen that the Pats fumble rate is AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE better than the next best team (Atlanta). Atlanta plays in a dome. Atlanta is AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE better than the next best team.

There has been a clear and meaningful advantage gained by the Pats over the last several years based on deflategate. The only question is whether the NFL punishes only Brady, or whether they include Belichek.
 
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yeah how anyone can keep saying that you don't get an advantage from a fumble ratio that is so abnormally low that it isn't possible is stunning.
 
As the football world waits for the NFL to punish Tom Brady and the New England Patriots for Deflategate, I would suspect the media will be reporting something to the effect of:

In a duplicitous act the NFL will set an example and display a stern hand in regard to the seriousness of the offense of deflating footballs while at the same time also demonstrate the importance of every NFL contest, the NFL will suspend Tom Brady for the first four games of the 2015 season. Those first four opponents for the New England Patriots are: Green Bay, New Orleans, Carolina and the New York Giants.

By this near draconian punishment, Brady will not be able to get in any game action in those first four games which could also possibly affect his performance and the Patriots’ timing and execution on offense in the games that follow beginning with the Pittsburgh Steelers on Thursday, September 10th.

By such a measure, only then, will the Patriots and Tom Brady learn their lesson.
 
No meaningful advantage? I guess you haven't seen that the Pats fumble rate is AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE better than the next best team (Atlanta). Atlanta plays in a dome. Atlanta is AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE better than the next best team.

There has been a clear and meaningful advantage gained by the Pats over the last several years based on deflategate. The only question is whether the NFL punishes only Brady, or whether they include Belichek.

How many teams practice outdoors in bad weather? When they have a bubble. How many teams practice with wet/frozen fooballs? How many teams bench 1000yd rushers with a fumbling problem? Attention to detail.
 
I believe that the NFL in addition to suspension of Brady, should insist that the pats be monitored, it is obvious that since bellichek got there they haven't played by any rules. It is time for the NFL to tell Kraft that they are placing an executive from the league office to monitor every aspect of the organization for an extended period of time. I know that this sounds a little like NCAA sanctions but if the organization can't monitor themselves then the NFL has to. It is apparent that Kraft must be senile and bellichek will always be a cheat.
 
Typical BWI board whining. Just like when PSU loses. We got out-coached, out-recruited, out-worked. Dey cheating!! At least we graduate the kids.....LOL
 
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