Of note, Michigan returns 11 (5 offense, 6 defense), Ohio St returns 12 (7 offense, 5 defense), Iowa returns 12 (7 offense, 5 defense), Illinois returns 13 (6 offense, 7 defense).
PSU (8 offense, 6 defense) tied for most returning starters in the Big 10 with Nebraska
- Thread starter Online Persona
- Start date
Guessing Cephas counts as 1 since he started last year, but not for us.
Also Nourzad, who started games at Guard, backfills Scruggs departure.
That’s what I love about MATH. It’s such a variable and inexact application that no one is ever right or wrong.
It is flawed logic if they count a one game starter the same as a full season starter. A team could have 15 returning starters on each side of the ball.
How many different players started at least ONE game for PSU? I would guess at least 7 OL, 3 Rbs, 3 TEs 6 WRs, 1 QB. Probably 10 returning players or more started at least one game on offense.
I think Dottin even got a start.
Last edited:
Probably the same stat guy who does the crime stats.
They go from actual crime stats to crime rate to fudge the numbers. Actual crime goes up but the population went up a little more so they list the crime rate as down. Crime rate goes down but population goes down even more so they switch back to actual crime is down. Somehow crime never goes up
I hardly ever pay attention to "returning starters" as much as I do to the depth of the returning roster (2-deep). "Returning starters" are much more meaningful on the bottom level teams than the top-notch recruiters in CF (Bama, Georgia, OSU, Clemson etc...)
Heck, Alabama has been turning their rosters over to the NFL (to a degree) almost every year since Saban got there and it sure doesn't seem to derail them. Their backups (4 and 5 stars) get plenty of playing time and are usually ready when they get the call. And you could probably put PSU and Michigan with that group that has depth
Heck, Alabama has been turning their rosters over to the NFL (to a degree) almost every year since Saban got there and it sure doesn't seem to derail them. Their backups (4 and 5 stars) get plenty of playing time and are usually ready when they get the call. And you could probably put PSU and Michigan with that group that has depth
Last edited:
The devil is in the details with this sort of stat. You have to look at position groups and what were strengths and weaknesses. For example, if a group has most/all of the starters returning but they were sub par last year then unless dramatic improvement has occurred that is not much of a positive.
Totally agree. That most "returning starters" is one of the most deceptive stats out there
If you have a good working knowledge of the team then it can be useful. For example, Michigan had an excellent offensive line last season so if they have a lot of returners there then that tells you something. Unfortunately, I think that may be the case with them.
Agree, hoping King has a breakout year. Elsdon has a lower ceiling but is solid, steady.
Michigan might have the best - certainly top 3 or 4 - OL in the country this year. But I believe (could be wrong) that they got hit hard on defense. But even their defensive replacements will probably be better than some of the bottom feeder B1G teams that have a bunch of defensive starters returning.
The statistic they quote is "Returning Starters"... - if they're returning and have started a game(s), they count them in the statistic. They not only count players from prior year, but also count a player returning from injury who had started prior to last year. They may even count a X-fer like Cephus who was a starter last year (I'm not sure how they handle X-Fers). Don't really think it's a matter of logic, but rather how the specific media outlet is "defining" the statistic. There is no perfect way to define the statistic as somebody like Carter demonstrates - he clearly was a Starter by the end of year, but he was not in the "starting unit" until late in the year.
Last edited:
Agree - returning the most starters from a 11-2, Top 10, CFP-Affiliated Bowl Game Winner is a much bigger deal than returning the most starters from a mediocre or bad team.
If that is the case PSU should have 9 to 10 returning starters on each side of the ball coming back for 2023.
If that’s the case, with injuries and all most college football teams have 9 to 10 returning starters.
You just nailed it. All of the top notch, upper level teams have depth which makes the "returning starters" number much less significant.
Yep, I would take a whole new offensive line as in no returning starters at Michigan over an all returning O-Line at Indiana for example. Heck, probably take an O-Line of all Freshmen just out of high school at Mich over a O-Line of all returners at Indiana.
Bizzare post on a PSU Board.... LMFAO at some of this crap. Are we really suppose to care wether you'd take scUM's non-returners over Indiana's returning OL???..... blah, blah, blah............
You make an excellent point. Another very misleading and over-emphasized statistic is total tackles. I’ve seen too many LBs lead a team in tackles where the majority of those tackles were late or way down field after a gain of big chunks of yardage.
No he isn't. He's slow and a poor tackler. Without question the only weak link defensively unless you count Beamon
Again, how good was that Stanford O line last year and how did those 3 guys go from awful to awesome by simply transferring?
P$U OL will be pretty good this year. IMO
I mean--this is true. Katz was a great college LB but stats were crazy inflated. If he was within 2 yards of someone going down I think he got credit.
Yes good enough to beat Michigan, just don't leave points on the field like they did in 2021.
Considering UM's defensive losses. I'd have to give the edge to PSU's OL at this point in time
Come on man. Don’t you know that there’s some here that it doesn’t matter that Michigan graduated 1st round DL, or that our guys are better now, they will swear UM will kill us
