PSU can't afford the Beaver Stadium renovation -Fenchak
- Thread starter heckmans
- Start date
It does....but if the city doesn't pony up, the franchise will go elsewhere. I am hopeful that these cities do their homework and make smart financial choices (but wouldn't be surprised if they are just ripping people off).
But the point is that this is a city government is paying $800 million for a for profit business.
All excess funds from Beaver Stadium stay with the university.
So what do you think they should do? Just start closing sections as they are no longer safe or useable? For example the North Upper Deck had no bathrooms for a game. They put port a potties along the concourse that how much disarray the stadium has fallen into. It a crap hole that is literally falling a part. This is not hey let renovate a 20 year old building. There are parts of the stadium that haven’t been touched outside of paint and bandaids in 30+ years.
They did renovations in 2003, 2011, 2015, 2017. They redid their concourses in 2011. They expanded it as recently as 2008. Meanwhile Penn State hasn’t touched most of the stadium in 20+ years and put off maintenance.
Where did I say that PSU should stop maintaining Beaver Stadium? I never even suggested that they avoid making improvements.
I simply questioned if $700 million was too much. I also said that an annual concert or hockey game wouldn't bring in enough revenue to cover the $700 million price tag.
What should they do? They should have a plan on how to pay for it. That would involve estimates and there are no guarantees those estimates will come true. But they certainly should say we need to spend $700 million without a plan.
Could very well be the opposite; casual fans aren't interested in games against directional schools (I'd say that even true for most hardware CFB fans).
Keep in mind the $700 million includes $200 million already on the books/planned maintenance and improvements.
My only question - why do they keep handing these projects to Populous, HRG, Stahl/Sheaffer, Alexander, Hawbaker, etc.? No need to answer, I already know. It's not that they do a bad job (even though I do think some could do better), a fresh look with new ideas would be beneficial. Plus, there's a premium to be paid to design professionals when there's no competition.
I don't have any great expectations for the $700M of debt or anything close to it being retired in my lifetime. If I were to guess, the university will likely float $700M in bonds and then just pay the interest each year over the next 30 or so years while letting the next generation of administrators figure out how to retire the debt. That would be par for the course for a quasi government entity. Kick the can down the road for the next guy to worry about..
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Northwestern is building a new 35k capacity stadium for $800m. We are obviously triple that capacity. I think our renovation and maintenance plan is very reasonable.
The entire bill is being privately donated as well, which is a key factor.
I have no clue if our plan is reasonable or not because I don't do that sort of work/planning, but it seems our fan base just doesn't trust the people making the decisions to make a decision like this without skimming off the top and lining their own pockets.
I know a guy who was in a county government years ago. He told me the same firms bid on projects because the rules are written for only large companies to be able to win bids and as such only a certain number of firms bid government projects. Yeah , it is a bit questionable. I am not sure if any of that applies to state projects or PSU. Regardless, it does not invalidate the need that exist at Beaver Stadium.
I don't know about skimming off the top but it would be nice to know there is a plan on how to pay for it.
I assume they're trying hard to get donations to cover a large portion of the cost. The problem is the big donors are probably the same people donating to NIL.
The donation pool dried up when they decided to crap all over Joe. It will not recover until they pull their heads out of their asses.
That happens in bids for all sorts of things across all kinds of industries. The requirements get written as such that only a handful of companies are even capable of meeting them, sometimes only one company even meets the specs. RFPs spec'd to a particular company is commonplace, the government agencies often have a preferred vendor before the requirements are written. This isn't always a sign of kickbacks or shady agreements with someone's cousin or something. Many times that preferred vendor is the incumbent provider for that agency already and the agency has no desire to switch vendors if they are happy with the product/service, but they still have to put projects out to bid by law so this is how they work the system to get what they want in the end. Sometimes it is incompetence or inexperience by the person writing up the requirements, as they may only be familiar with their incumbent vendor's specs and capabilities instead of the industry at large, and end up just writing specs they are familiar with. Competing bidders can tell when this happens too. Sometimes they will respond with heavily discounted bids since they only way they can typically win those contracts is on price. Other times they won't bother to respond with a bid because they know they don't have a chance. I used to sell to some public agencies and this was all very, very common and I didn't have any friends/relatives making these buying decisions or get kickbacks or anything, it was just how some public employees did things.
Penn State trustee sues university for keeping financial records from him
Trustee Barry Fenchak alleges Penn State blocked him from reviewing details of the $4.6 billion endowment.
Good.Penn State trustee sues university for keeping financial records from him
Trustee Barry Fenchak alleges Penn State blocked him from reviewing details of the $4.6 billion endowment.www.spotlightpa.org
Now honor Paterno.
Freaking lice.
IIRC Fenchak is upset that PSU is making a lot of cuts at satellite campuses at a time when we're spending hundreds of $millions on facilities. I was surprised to learn that enrollment is down by 30% - 40% at several satellite locations in which case the cuts make sense regardless of where he stands on the stadium renovation.
My question is why is attendance down so much at the branch campuses. Especially these days when cost of attendance is so high. Being able to live at home and commute for 2 years is a big cost saver.
My question is why is attendance down so much at the branch campuses. Especially these days when cost of attendance is so high. Being able to live at home and commute for 2 years is a big cost saver.
I thought this was a good read about the enrollment decline at PSU and Pitt. It seems to be a combination of things causing it:
- branch campuses that were overbuilt
- reduction of college aged students in PA
- higher than average tuition prices even
at the branch campuses
- a change in the trend of going to college during an economic slump (Covid)
I posted several times over the years here. The university system is in peril. Online education will be a major impact. Local community college are much improved.
Bet applications are down nationwide. Lots fewer going to college.
College is not affordable for many. It has become an alphabet lair.
Sickening.
Sickening.
I've wondered the same. My guess is because students these days don't want to accept anything but the best. They want university park, luxury apartments, etc. The days of "college student" being synonymous with being poor and having a dump of an apartment and barely surviving seems to be an outdated mindset. Back in the day that was basically an expectation for student. Now they want to live in the lap of luxury and get the best of everything, but then they throw their arms up in the air and wonder why they are broke and can't afford loan payments after they graduate. Yes, I know costs are also out of control, but students share a large portion of the responsibility for poor financial decision making.
I remember back in the day the branch campuses had a lot of veterans attending using their GI benefits. But it's been a long time since Vietnam. I guess there aren't nearly as many Iraq and Afghanistan veterans.
I know our local community college has technical training (CNC programming, welding, etc). I'm surprised the branch campuses don't use excess capacity for that.
Absolutely. I remember a woman worked for me who did clerical work maintained our company website. She complained about her student loans and I asked her why she attended a private university. She said that I sounded like her father then told me that several of her friends were going to the private university. Ugh!
Barry's said that PSU can't afford the renovation project. It seems like that will be a pretty easy thing to confirm/deny once the work is complete.Penn State trustee sues university for keeping financial records from him
Trustee Barry Fenchak alleges Penn State blocked him from reviewing details of the $4.6 billion endowment.
College is too expensive and it is disappointing that these branch campuses have gotten more expensive. Meanwhile we are dumping a ton of money into Beaver Stadium. Not saying it is an irresponsible spend but it is not a great look.
The other thing is that as families get squeezed financially trying to get their kid(s) into a college. And not some fancy private school either but a branch campus, whatever. We have these prima donna elite football players getting all this money, scholarship full ride, NIL, revenue sharing. God knows what else we will grovel our way to giving them. Yeah they make all the money for the university, blah, blah. blah. I get that to a point but geez it is like the average student adds no value and we want to penalize them and make it hard for them to go to college while we glorify these athletes. Just a sad state of where we are in society.
The other thing is that as families get squeezed financially trying to get their kid(s) into a college. And not some fancy private school either but a branch campus, whatever. We have these prima donna elite football players getting all this money, scholarship full ride, NIL, revenue sharing. God knows what else we will grovel our way to giving them. Yeah they make all the money for the university, blah, blah. blah. I get that to a point but geez it is like the average student adds no value and we want to penalize them and make it hard for them to go to college while we glorify these athletes. Just a sad state of where we are in society.
University business plan is not sustainable. Too many people in BS roles and tuition way too high. Something has to give. Selling out to foreigners likely path. It’s a bubble that’s going to burst across the country. Of course, no one has a plan because they refuse to admit it!
From Barry - the project "would dramatically increase Penn State Athletics' debt (to $877 million) and that Penn State has neither the revenue nor the donations to fund the project." So your take is that we'll never know if this is true?
How? More lights and more decibels … a great experience.
Penn State’s Pat Kraft on Beaver Stadium renovations price tag: ‘There is no other option’
The price tag for all of that is eye-catching: The Penn State Board of Trustees has approved $700 million to be put toward the renovations at Beaver Stadium. It's a hefty investment in an overall project that is scheduled to be done in time for the 2027 season.
For Penn State athletic director Pat Kraft, it's a necessary cost in order to get Beaver Stadium where it needs to be, both in 2024 and beyond. During a meeting with local reporters at Big Ten Media Days in Indianapolis on Tuesday evening, Kraft laid it all out.
"I think it's a good question to ask. There is no other option," Kraft said at the Conrad Indianapolis. "We have to fix critical care issues in that building. It's just the reality. Money was pulled back from deferred maintenance on that building for a decade. It's a very special building. I've said this to you all. I love Beaver Stadium, and I think to keep Beaver Stadium, Beaver Stadium, we have to invest in it."
Kraft brought up the press box on the west side of the stadium. As part of the overarching renovation, the press box will be demolished and then rebuilt. The new structure will also feature more premium seating, which Kraft said will generate revenue to help pay for the project.
"You all know more than most: The press box, that thing cannot stay much longer, right," Kraft said. "I'm talking to the people who live it every Saturday. That's $100 million on the low end to replace. Where do you find revenue for that?
"We need the revenue to come off that building to pay for the renovation. We don't have enough premium. We actually lost an event, a big, big, big event because we didn't have premium. And that has to be a part of it.
The World Cup is in North America in 2026. It is possible that this was what he was referring to. They've got to have these scheduled years in advance so the plans may not have been solid when the venues were selected. That is just a guess. They've had, and continue to have, big concerts there so I am not sure if that qualifies as "big, big, big". I can't think of another event that would qualify. Its a good question.
I sat next to a guy on a flight from LAX to Hawaii several years ago. He told me he was going to Hawaii to plan an ice skating event in Honolulu. Surprised, I asked more. Turns out he was an advance man for these ice events at various venues. This was right when they started to do outdoor NHL events. He told me that they had the Penguins and Flyers all set up but the Pens didn't want to play in Philly and Philly didn't want to play in Pittsburgh. So they looked at State College but the cost to winterize the Beav was way too much and the deal fell apart.
NHL would be my first guess. Soccer maybe but the area is population depleted for soccer.
Not too many people want exclusive box seats for concerts but some do for security and privacy reasons.
Olympic trials? Perhaps even an Olympic event? Next summer games in LA but may have wanted to stage a couple events in the eastern half. Doubtful but🤷🏻♀️
Seriously doubt the NFL would have a game there. Certainly not a Super Bowl.
Maybe for hockey but, to me, doesn't qualify for a "big, big, big" event. These outside hockey games are now pretty commonplace.
I also disagree on soccer. It is very popular in the NE and with the younger generation. Plus, it is international. Did you see the COPA finals in Vegas or the USA vs Mexico in Columbus a last year? The COPA finals had a ton of people from Columbia and Argentina. Of course, that is LA but they traveled. These COPA, CONCACAF and World Cup games sell out no matter where they are. USA Mexico games that are meaningful sell out no matter where they are. LINK
I agree on your comments regarding the Olympics and NFL. That is why I think World Cup. But I am just guessing.
Just saw the Stones in Branson, MO this past Sunday evening! Never been a huge fan but WOW!
check this out:
The 2025 Navy Federal Credit Union NHL Stadium Series™ will feature the Columbus Blue Jackets hosting the Detroit Red Wings at historic Ohio Stadium on Saturday, March 1, 2025.
Stadium Series | Columbus Blue Jackets
The 2025 Navy Federal Credit Union NHL Stadium Series™ will feature the Columbus Blue Jackets hosting the Detroit Red Wings at historic Ohio Stadium on Saturday, March 1, 2025. Learn more about how to guarantee priority presale for tickets!
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My best guess is Flyers/Pens game. A very close second ……maybe even more likely …. a Sabres/Pens game given Buffalo is so close and owned by Pegulia. Seems like a natural fit.check this out:
The 2025 Navy Federal Credit Union NHL Stadium Series™ will feature the Columbus Blue Jackets hosting the Detroit Red Wings at historic Ohio Stadium on Saturday, March 1, 2025.
Stadium Series | Columbus Blue Jackets
The 2025 Navy Federal Credit Union NHL Stadium Series™ will feature the Columbus Blue Jackets hosting the Detroit Red Wings at historic Ohio Stadium on Saturday, March 1, 2025. Learn more about how to guarantee priority presale for tickets!
Or maybe a Sabres/Flyers game🤷🏻♀️
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