PSU-Michigan noon

[PSUSignore]

Primarily, there is one poster who is saying Michigan is dictating that they won't play this game at night. I'm under the impression that Fox picked the game, thus it's going in their noon slot.

This is the simple and most likely answer, and it's something that was widely expected long before these stories of the issues over the TV contract or any game time announcements came to light. The poster insisting that isn't true has no more knowledge than anyone else but speaks in certainties as if they are privy to all of the details. It's best ignored.

The game is on FOX, and FOX in recent years puts their biggest game on in the noon timeslot. That's the reason.

 

[PSUSignore]

This is precisely the concern that I tried to express earlier in the thread. Is the new contract going to be a defacto exemption for OSU and UM from having to play away night games in State College?

Regardless of our previous record in WO's, I can't imagine either of those teams being excited about playing a pivotal away game under those circumstances in State College.

Noon games definitely detract from our home field advantage, all things being equal.

Potentially, yes. It depends on where the OSU and UM games sit in the overall pecking order particularly after USC joins the party. As it stands now PSU-OSU/UM are the 2nd and 3rd best games in the ratings. USC-OSU, USC-UM, USC-PSU all have the potential to disrupt that ranking though, and if the rumor about FOX getting the first 3 picks is true then only one of those games has to be picked higher in order to get PSU-OSU/UM off of FOX and into a potential night game slot. I'm assuming OSU-UM remains in the #1 ratings spot even after USC joins. Of course if the game is in November that could present additional challenges if the schools are able to continue to veto holding those games at night as they have in the past.

 

[PSUSignore]

I'm not sure the WO has much actual impact but it's a great scene and recruiting tool

Someone did an analysis about points scored or margin of victory for whiteout opponents vs. their season averages, and the result showed a pretty significant impact even when PSU loses. I don't remember where I saw it, but IIRC it was about a 10 point swing in PSU's favor in Whiteout games.

 

[LandoComando]

Someone did an analysis about points scored or margin of victory for whiteout opponents vs. their season averages, and the result showed a pretty significant impact even when PSU loses. I don't remember where I saw it, but IIRC it was about a 10 point swing in PSU's favor in Whiteout games.

Fair enough I'd like to see that data but ultimately it's about winning and losing.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Fair enough I'd like to see that data but ultimately it's about winning and losing.

Such a dope - from 2010 until 2021, PSU played duhO$U or scrum in the Whiteout (and the only reason the 2021 scUM @PSU game wasn't named the pre-season Whiteout was because scUM refused to let the game be move to Primetime) - IOW, PSU's most difficult home-game of the season was the Whiteout. Take a look at what scUM's record is in their most difficult home-game over the past decade and a half.... it's not better than 50/50... and I would venture a guess it's worse.

 

[ryoder1]

Potentially, yes. It depends on where the OSU and UM games sit in the overall pecking order particularly after USC joins the party. As it stands now PSU-OSU/UM are the 2nd and 3rd best games in the ratings. USC-OSU, USC-UM, USC-PSU all have the potential to disrupt that ranking though, and if the rumor about FOX getting the first 3 picks is true then only one of those games has to be picked higher in order to get PSU-OSU/UM off of FOX and into a potential night game slot. I'm assuming OSU-UM remains in the #1 ratings spot even after USC joins. Of course if the game is in November that could present additional challenges if the schools are able to continue to veto holding those games at night as they have in the past.

I think a Mich vs USC and a OSU vs USC leaps both a PSU vs OSU and a PSU vs Mich game in the pecking order. This assumes USC is strong which they most likely will be.

In 2024, our game vs OSU could end up being #4. I'm assuming USC will only play one game against either Mich or OSU but not play both of them. That would make the pecking order: #1 OSU vs Mich; #2 Mich or OSU vs USC; #3 Mich vs Texas; #4 PSU vs OSU. This scenario makes it a toss up that we can have the OSU game be the White Out game by Fox not selecting it for a Big Nooner.

The thing that muddies the waters here is the no night games in Nov rule if the OSU game gets scheduled in Nov.

 

[doctornick]

The thing that muddies the waters here is the no night games in Nov rule if the OSU game gets scheduled in Nov.

Ultimately, I don't think that's a rule going forward. The new contract seems to have eliminated it; it's just that schools are complaining about it having the veto ability go away. The McMurphy article didn't indicate any school actually prevented a nighttime November game from happening, just that they complained about the possibility and their (lack of) influence over it.

 

[ryoder1]

Ultimately, I don't think that's a rule going forward. The new contract seems to have eliminated it; it's just that schools are complaining about it having the veto ability go away. The McMurphy article didn't indicate any school actually prevented a nighttime November game from happening, just that they complained about the possibility and their (lack of) influence over it.

In my post I failed to consider those years where Mich or OSU plays USC in LA. That knocks out the Big Noon EST platform with Fox given the time change.

Although, I wonder in those situations they woukd create some kind of west coast version of Big Noon like "Big Noon West Coast" airing the game at 3pm EST or whatever and still have that as part of their Big Noon stable of games.

I don't know/understand the TV contacts well enough to gauge the impact this would have with CBS or NBC. If USC is playing OSU in LA for example and both are top 10 teams or even top 5 then you would think Fox would do something to showcase this game as some kind of extension of their Big Noon platform. Maybe they try a double header with a noon EST game as the lead in to this game.

 

[lazydave841]

Although, I wonder in those situations they woukd create some kind of west coast version of Big Noon like "Big Noon West Coast" airing the game at 3pm EST or whatever and still have that as part of their Big Noon stable of games.

Our game vs Iowa in '21 was the BNK game, but was played in the 4pm time slot.

Fox can...

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Ultimately, I don't think that's a rule going forward. The new contract seems to have eliminated it; it's just that schools are complaining about it having the veto ability go away. The McMurphy article didn't indicate any school actually prevented a nighttime November game from happening, just that they complained about the possibility and their (lack of) influence over it.

Oh, but Thamel's article definitely does say NBC filed a breach claim with B1G regarding a team refusing a November Primetime telecast using a bogus "tolerance right of refusal" - a breach claim that included withholding $70 million in contractual payments unless the parties could negotiate a mutually agreeable resolution. Further, Thamel's article quotes only one B1G school that had a discussion with NBC regarding a November Primetime game:

"NBC was surprised, and I was surprised," said Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel. "We had not discussed, and I had not discussed with anyone in the league to change the tolerances we had agreed upon years ago."

Also, from the article:

"These deals aren't done, and they aren't what they were represented to be from the standpoint of the NBC deal and the availability of all members to participate in November games in primetime,"

And.....:

More than $70 million in total is suddenly in flux -- nearly $5 million per school -- and it has left administrators around the league seeking answers and calling for financial accountability.

And when new B1G Commissioner, Petitti, was formally introduced as the new B1G Commissioner he enumerated 4 immediate priorities including the following...:

• There's tens of millions of dollars of value of the NBC primetime deal in flux, as Petitti has been racing to ensure it keeps as much of its original value as possible. Historically in the Big Ten, after the first weekend in November, schools were not required to play night games for myriad reasons -- health, recovery and campus logistics among them. These were known in league circles as "tolerances," and prior television contracts accounted for them.

Thamel's article also contains the following:

While this is being worked through, Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State recently agreed to concessions to make short-term sacrifices to help the league make up for some lost revenue from the NBC deal.

"This is what he's walking into right now," another industry source said of Petitti. "Tony is trying to save it, and what Penn State and Ohio State are doing is actually trying to minimize the losses."

*******************

Sure does sound like NBC has a legit breach claim whose genesis was the refusal to play a November Primetime game based on "tolerance rights of refusal" that really don't exist as they were negotiated away by Warren in the new Contract. Sure does sound like Petitti has acknowledged NBC's claim and is scrambling to stem the damages from the breach. BTW, Thamel's article predated McMurphy's article by a week and proved 100% accurate as to its claim of PSU @MSU game being moved to Primetime on Black Friday Nov 24... the MSU @duhO$U game being moved to Primetime.....

 

[lazydave841]

its claim of PSU @MSU game being moved to Primetime on Black Friday Nov 24... the MSU @duhO$U game being moved to Primetime....

What were the kickoff times before they were moved? Are they listed somewhere? I need your help finding them.

 

[ryoder1]

Our game vs Iowa in '21 was the BNK game, but was played in the 4pm time slot.

Fox can...

Good point. They will probably do that for those games. Good for us as it takes a pick for Fox ahead of a PSU vs Mich or PSU vs OSU or even a PSU vs USC thus giving us a better opportunity for a prime time White Out sans Fox vs OSU, Mich or USC.

 

[Westcoast24]

Oh, but Thamel's article definitely does say NBC filed a breach claim with B1G regarding a team refusing a November Primetime telecast using a bogus "tolerance right of refusal" - a breach claim that included withholding $70 million in contractual payments unless the parties could negotiate a mutually agreeable resolution. Further, Thamel's article quotes only one B1G school that had a discussion with NBC regarding a November Primetime game:

"NBC was surprised, and I was surprised," said Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel. "We had not discussed, and I had not discussed with anyone in the league to change the tolerances we had agreed upon years ago."

Also, from the article:

"These deals aren't done, and they aren't what they were represented to be from the standpoint of the NBC deal and the availability of all members to participate in November games in primetime,"

And.....:

More than $70 million in total is suddenly in flux -- nearly $5 million per school -- and it has left administrators around the league seeking answers and calling for financial accountability.

And when new B1G Commissioner, Petitti, was formally introduced as the new B1G Commissioner he enumerated 4 immediate priorities including the following...:

• There's tens of millions of dollars of value of the NBC primetime deal in flux, as Petitti has been racing to ensure it keeps as much of its original value as possible. Historically in the Big Ten, after the first weekend in November, schools were not required to play night games for myriad reasons -- health, recovery and campus logistics among them. These were known in league circles as "tolerances," and prior television contracts accounted for them.

Thamel's article also contains the following:

While this is being worked through, Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan State recently agreed to concessions to make short-term sacrifices to help the league make up for some lost revenue from the NBC deal.

"This is what he's walking into right now," another industry source said of Petitti. "Tony is trying to save it, and what Penn State and Ohio State are doing is actually trying to minimize the losses."

*******************

Sure does sound like NBC has a legit breach claim whose genesis was the refusal to play a November Primetime game based on "tolerance rights of refusal" that really don't exist as they were negotiated away by Warren in the new Contract. Sure does sound like Petitti has acknowledged NBC's claim and is scrambling to stem the damages from the breach. BTW, Thamel's article predated McMurphy's article by a week and proved 100% accurate as to its claim of PSU @MSU game being moved to Primetime on Black Friday Nov 24... the MSU @duhO$U game being moved to Primetime.....

You seem to have your finger in the pulse of this tv deal stuff so I’ll switch gears a bit and ask a different question. What are your thoughts on games that PSU will play this year that will require a subscription to the peacock network? I noticed PSU had some and also Michigan has one and OSU doesn’t have any. Kinda sucks to have to get an additional sub for peacock to watch a game.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

You seem to have your finger in the pulse of this tv deal stuff so I’ll switch gears a bit and ask a different question. What are your thoughts on games that PSU will play this year that will require a subscription to the peacock network? I noticed PSU had some and also Michigan has one and OSU doesn’t have any. Kinda sucks to have to get an additional sub for peacock to watch a game.

As I understand it, NBC held rights to broadcast on Peacock only for 8 games - they cannot show these games on their NBC Channel as they overlap with Fox or CBS games (all of NBC's games being broadcast on NBC are being simulcast on Peacock). In any event, Peacock's selection rights are apparently in front of some cable broadcasters including BTN which would really be a function of what they are paying for those rights relative to the cable broadcasters (FS1, BTN, etc...). Additionally, Peacock is included on many Cable Packages and BTN and FS1 are not free everywhere and are subscription based in many areas. Having said that, I'm not sure if I answered your question - Peacock is not subscription based everywhere and several channels airing B1G games, not just Peacock, could be subscription based depending where you live.

 

[Westcoast24]

As I understand it, NBC held rights to broadcast on Peacock only for 8 games - they cannot show these games on their NBC Channel as they overlap with Fox or CBS games (all of NBC's games being broadcast on NBC are being simulcast on Peacock). In any event, Peacock's selection rights are apparently in front of some cable broadcasters including BTN which would really be a function of what they are paying for those rights relative to the cable broadcasters (FS1, BTN, etc...). Additionally, Peacock is included on many Cable Packages and BTN and FS1 are not free everywhere and are subscription based in many areas. Having said that, I'm not sure if I answered your question - Peacock is not subscription based everywhere and several channels airing B1G games, not just Peacock, could be subscription based depending where you live.

That would make sense. I’m in south Florida and it’s something I would have to get a subscription for. I believe it’s that’s way in northern Michigan where my brother is at as well.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

That would make sense. I’m in south Florida and it’s something I would have to get a subscription for. I believe it’s that’s way in northern Michigan where my brother is at as well.

Peacock is included on Xfinity where I'm at, but that's changing 6/23/2023.... It's going subscription after that date.

 

[PSUSignore]

That would make sense. I’m in south Florida and it’s something I would have to get a subscription for. I believe it’s that’s way in northern Michigan where my brother is at as well.

The nice things about those services (for now) is you can cancel anytime with no minimums. They prey on people that aren't responsible enough to stay on top of their subscriptions and forget to cancel. I read that it's only $5 a month (for now), so it's a pretty trivial cost to watch the one PSU game as long as you cancel immediately afterwards. There are also illegal streams out there if you know where to look.

 

[ryoder1]

The nice things about those services (for now) is you can cancel anytime with no minimums. They prey on people that aren't responsible enough to stay on top of their subscriptions and forget to cancel. I read that it's only $5 a month (for now), so it's a pretty trivial cost to watch the one PSU game as long as you cancel immediately afterwards. There are also illegal streams out there if you know where to look.

I won't get Peacock just for the Delaware game. I will follow on my phone. as it should be a comfortable win. When they start streaming key B10 games only on Peacock then I will need to reconsider my approach.

 

[LandoComando]

I won't get Peacock just for the Delaware game. I will follow on my phone. as it should be a comfortable win. When they start streaming key B10 games only on Peacock then I will need to reconsider my approach.

This--they need to stop scheduling games against teams like Delaware. I wouldn't pay 5 cents let alone 5 dollars to watch what should be an awful game.

 

[PSUSignore]

I won't get Peacock just for the Delaware game. I will follow on my phone. as it should be a comfortable win. When they start streaming key B10 games only on Peacock then I will need to reconsider my approach.

It's only a matter of time. The MSU - Washington game is also only on Peacock and that's a pretty major game for MSU.