PSU (& Philly non-) dominance

[PSUwrestling]

I was thinking about how good our coaches are and the statistical evidence of it is everywhere we look. For example:
Mark Hall and Carter Starocci 174
2017-2024 174 PSU looses 2 championships
(Mark would have beaten Kemdog in the finals of 2020 a sadness that will always haunt me)
This is a ridiculous 8 year run 🔥
Can i get some help around what PSU dominance has looked like in all of the weight classes under Cael ? Thanks

 

[El-Jefe]

I was thinking about how good our coaches are and the statistical evidence of it is everywhere we look. For example:
Mark Hall and Carter Starocci 174
2017-2024 174 PSU looses 2 championships
(Mark would have beaten Kemdog in the finals of 2020 a sadness that will always haunt me)
This is a ridiculous 8 year run 🔥
Can i get some help around what PSU dominance has looked like in all of the weight classes under Cael ? Thanks

174 Ruth-Brown-Nickal-Hall-Starocci might be the best run at one weight in NCAA history. AA every year, finalists in all but 2 years (excluding 2020).

 

[nerfstate]

174 Ruth-Brown-Nickal-Hall-Starocci might be the best run at one weight in NCAA history. AA every year, finalists in all but 2 years (excluding 2020).

Q mentioned in a podcast a while back that every starting 174lber that Casey has ever coached has won a title--going back to Jon Reader at ISU. I bet Alex Facundo likes that stat.

 

[creamery freak]

174 Ruth-Brown-Nickal-Hall-Starocci might be the best run at one weight in NCAA history. AA every year, finalists in all but 2 years (excluding 2020).

184 with Q, Ruth, Bo and Brooks has been great for PSU.

 

[CholleyVandine]

Q mentioned in a podcast a while back that every starting 174lber that Casey has ever coached has won a title--going back to Jon Reader at ISU. I bet Alex Facundo likes that stat.

He had some AAs during his seven years at Central Michigan but no champs

 

[El-Jefe]

184 with Q, Ruth, Bo and Brooks has been great for PSU.

Also 197 with Q, Morgan, Bo, and Aaron.

 

[McScoreley]

Q mentioned in a podcast a while back that every starting 174lber that Casey has ever coached has won a title--going back to Jon Reader at ISU. I bet Alex Facundo likes that stat.

I wonder why Will Henckel committed without a clear fit!

 

[SJP80]

174 Ruth-Brown-Nickal-Hall-Starocci might be the best run at one weight in NCAA history. AA every year, finalists in all but 2 years (excluding 2020).

The GIA guys want to talk about one weight (125) while we have 4 or 5 weights that have done or well or better over the last 10 years compared to their results.

 

[McScoreley]

Similarly, there isn't another staff that can claim they've coached a champion at every available weight. I don't believe Gable ever coached a heavyweight champion.

 

[El-Jefe]

Similarly, there isn't another staff that can claim they've coached a champion at every available weight. I don't believe Gable ever coached a heavyweight champion.

Lou Banach won 2x at HWT.

 

[hlstone]

Lou Banach won 2x at HWT.

Mocco?

 

[El-Jefe]

Mocco?

After Gable.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Also 197 with Q, Morgan, Bo, and Aaron.

 

[mhlarch]

We are so fortunate, what an enjoyable ride this has been....and it's only going to get better! I've never been a fan of a team that is a dynasty until now. I'm a long suffering Philly fan. We have our moments with the occasional championship, but they are far and few between, with rebuilds, and trust the process, etc.. PSU football has brought me much enjoyment but we aren't even close. I had high expectations when Cael accepted the position, and I knew PSU was a sleeping giant but never expected this level of success. The depth we are building, and the masterful blend of great recruits with transfers is amazing. And Cael is doing it the right way with honor and humbleness. We need to just savor this with gratitude and enjoy it. I need to guard myself from unfair expectations, but I haven't been disappointed yet! Thanks to everyone that has put this in place. I had nothing to do with it, but enjoy it all the same.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Lou Banach won 2x at HWT.

El-Jefe dropping wrestling knowledge on this Board:

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​

 

[Chickenman Testa]

We are so fortunate, what an enjoyable ride this has been....and it's only going to get better! I've never been a fan of a team that is a dynasty until now. I'm a long suffering Philly fan. We have our moments with the occasional championship, but they are far and few between, with rebuilds, and trust the process, etc.. PSU football has brought me much enjoyment but we aren't even close. I had high expectations when Cael accepted the position, and I knew PSU was a sleeping giant but never expected this level of success. The depth we are building, and the masterful blend of great recruits with transfers is amazing. And Cael is doing it the right way with honor and humbleness. We need to just savor this with gratitude and enjoy it. I need to guard myself from unfair expectations, but I haven't been disappointed yet! Thanks to everyone that has put this in place. I had nothing to do with it, but enjoy it all the same.

Delco born and bred and agree with every single word.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

We are so fortunate, what an enjoyable ride this has been....and it's only going to get better! I've never been a fan of a team that is a dynasty until now. I'm a long suffering Philly fan. We have our moments with the occasional championship, but they are far and few between, with rebuilds, and trust the process, etc.. PSU football has brought me much enjoyment but we aren't even close. I had high expectations when Cael accepted the position, and I knew PSU was a sleeping giant but never expected this level of success. The depth we are building, and the masterful blend of great recruits with transfers is amazing. And Cael is doing it the right way with honor and humbleness. We need to just savor this with gratitude and enjoy it. I need to guard myself from unfair expectations, but I haven't been disappointed yet! Thanks to everyone that has put this in place. I had nothing to do with it, but enjoy it all the same.

What are you low points as a Philly fan? Mine in no particular order:

- Maddox dropping a ball in the rain - 77 NLCS with Dodgers
Joe Carter
Pelle Lindbergh dying on my birthday in a car crash
JB dying in a car crash
Trading #1 overall pick for Roy Hinson
Trading Moses for Jeff Ruland
1977 NBA Final choke against the Trailblazers
1981 - Ghost of Celtics past
1979 - Nystrom’s offside goal in game 6

 

[Random4598375]

What are you low points as a Philly fan? Mine in no particular order:

- Maddox dropping a ball in the rain - 77 NLCS with Dodgers
Joe Carter
Pelle Lindbergh dying on my birthday in a car crash
JB dying in a car crash
Trading #1 overall pick for Roy Hinson
Trading Moses for Jeff Ruland
1977 NBA Final choke against the Trailblazers
1981 - Ghost of Celtics past
1979 - Nystrom’s offside goal in game 6

Lindros knocked out in the 7th game of the East Finals vs the Devils. Ryan Howard torn Achilles on last swing. Losing game 7 8-0 vs Sabres.

 

[El-Jefe]

What are you low points as a Philly fan? Mine in no particular order:

- Maddox dropping a ball in the rain - 77 NLCS with Dodgers
Joe Carter
Pelle Lindbergh dying on my birthday in a car crash
JB dying in a car crash
Trading #1 overall pick for Roy Hinson
Trading Moses for Jeff Ruland
1977 NBA Final choke against the Trailblazers
1981 - Ghost of Celtics past
1979 - Nystrom’s offside goal in game 6

Pelle Lindbergh on your birthday is hard to top.

A few more:
- Roy Halladay's plane crash
- Harry Kalas dying in the booth
- Reggie White leaving
- the Fog Bowl
- Donovan McNabb barfing in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl
- 1980, when the Flyers went approx 237 games without a loss, dominated the playoffs, then melted in the finals against the Islanders
- when the NJ Devils won with the neutral zone trap -- hockey became boring and lost me as a fan
- whenever Howard Eskin gets airtime

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Pelle Lindbergh on your birthday is hard to top.

A few more:
- Roy Halladay's plane crash
- Harry Kalas dying in the booth
- Reggie White leaving
- the Fog Bowl
- Donovan McNabb barfing in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl
- 1980, when the Flyers went approx 237 games without a loss, dominated the playoffs, then melted in the finals against the Islanders
- when the NJ Devils won with the neutral zone trap -- hockey became boring and lost me as a fan
- whenever Howard Eskin gets airtime

I was going to mention the Fog Bowl. That was a travesty - totally unfair conditions

 

[mhlarch]

What are you low points as a Philly fan? Mine in no particular order:

- Maddox dropping a ball in the rain - 77 NLCS with Dodgers
Joe Carter
Pelle Lindbergh dying on my birthday in a car crash
JB dying in a car crash
Trading #1 overall pick for Roy Hinson
Trading Moses for Jeff Ruland
1977 NBA Final choke against the Trailblazers
1981 - Ghost of Celtics past
1979 - Nystrom’s offside goal in game 6

That's a great list (you obviously know your Philly sport's history)....and it goes on and on:

Never winning a Stanley Cup in the Lindross era
Never winning an NBA Championship in the AI era
The '93 Phillies against Toronto in the World Series and Mitch William's blown save
Eagles 2005 Super Bowl loss to New England
The 2009 Phillies not repeating (with a totally stacked team)
This seasons Eagles collapse

I might have gotten some of my years mixed up, but after a while it all blurs together

 

[mhlarch]

El-Jefe......LOL on the Eskin comment.....the "I never had a bad day in my life", always knows better than everyone else commentator.

 

[mcpat]

That's a great list (you obviously know your Philly sport's history)....and it goes on and on:

Never winning a Stanley Cup in the Lindross era
Never winning an NBA Championship in the AI era
The '93 Phillies against Toronto in the World Series and Mitch William's blown save
Eagles 2005 Super Bowl loss to New England
The 2009 Phillies not repeating (with a totally stacked team)
This seasons Eagles collapse

I might have gotten some of my years mixed up, but after a while it all blurs together

Not a big hockey fan, but watched the Eastern Conference finals games 5, 6 and 7 once up 3-1 in the Lindross days. 2001 maybe? Lost all three games. Barely have watched hockey since.

 

[Sett1997]

We are so fortunate, what an enjoyable ride this has been....and it's only going to get better! I've never been a fan of a team that is a dynasty until now. I'm a long suffering Philly fan. We have our moments with the occasional championship, but they are far and few between, with rebuilds, and trust the process, etc.. PSU football has brought me much enjoyment but we aren't even close. I had high expectations when Cael accepted the position, and I knew PSU was a sleeping giant but never expected this level of success. The depth we are building, and the masterful blend of great recruits with transfers is amazing. And Cael is doing it the right way with honor and humbleness. We need to just savor this with gratitude and enjoy it. I need to guard myself from unfair expectations, but I

Easy to be a fan when you are the dynasty. I remember those days.

 

[WildTurk]

Very good memories you guys have. Impressive

 

[El-Jefe]

I was going to mention the Fog Bowl. That was a travesty - totally unfair conditions

That game should've been postponed for both competitive and safety reasons. But it wasn't unfair -- it was bad for both teams.

The problem for the Eagles was being down 7-0 when the fog rolled in. Whoever was up at that point was winning. That could've been the Eagles, but they didn't score first..

 

[El-Jefe]

El-Jefe......LOL on the Eskin comment.....the "I never had a bad day in my life", always knows better than everyone else commentator.

Burger King is the most pompous, self-absorbed, worst person in Philly media.

True story about Eskin: my friend Chris and I somehow got tickets for the Leigh Steinberg Super Bowl party at the New Orleans Jazzland amusement park (the Rams-Patriots Super Bowl when Tom Brady was still a novelty). Party was full of celebrities and athletes. Eskin acted like he was friends with all the athletes he's ripped over the years. He butted into a group with John Rocker and Fred McGriff -- they turned and looked at him as if to say "who is this little man?" and then proceeded to ignore him until he left.

Also from that party: Chris accidentally bumped into Britney Spears and had no idea who she was, just apologized and kept moving. Britney is very short and her teeth are blinding white. She could get a job at airports, laying next to the runway so pilots can see how to land in bad conditions.

 

[royboy]

This goes back a ways, but the Phillies blowing the NL pennant in 1964 has to be on a list of great disappointments.

In mid-September, the Phillies were up 6 games with 17 remaining. They proceeded to lose 13 of the next 15 games (thanks in part to Manager Gene Mauch's dubious strategy of pitching his aces Chris Short and Jim Bunning till their arms nearly fell off), and the St. Louis Cardinals won the NL by one game.

Classic collapse. The World Series drought continued until 1980.

 

[El-Jefe]

That's a great list (you obviously know your Philly sport's history)....and it goes on and on:

Never winning a Stanley Cup in the Lindross era
Never winning an NBA Championship in the AI era
The '93 Phillies against Toronto in the World Series and Mitch William's blown save
Eagles 2005 Super Bowl loss to New England
The 2009 Phillies not repeating (with a totally stacked team)
This seasons Eagles collapse

I might have gotten some of my years mixed up, but after a while it all blurs together

I think you got the years right. Add the 2010 Phillies losing in the first round with Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Oswalt, and bats that went dead in October.

Iverson would've won a title if the team had surrounded him with championship talent. Some good players, but there was no McHale or Parish, let alone two.

Philly also has a history of comically bad management:
- Signing the wrong Maddux and the wrong Giambi
- Letting Reggie White and the entire defense walk because the owner objected to free agency
- The Eagles moving their very good OL coach to defensive coordinator and then firing him in 1 year
- The Process (horrible as it was, made logical sense in NBA Salary Cap Hell -- and then the league stepped in and stopped it before it could bear fruit)
- The Flyers firing a head coach approximately every 6 weeks, and then wondering why they can't win a Cup since the mid-70s.

 

[royboy]

- The Process (horrible as it was, made logical sense in NBA Salary Cap Hell -- and then the league stepped in and stopped it before it could bear fruit)

Yeah, although the Process also consisted of having the #1 overall draft picks in successive years 2016 and 2017, and choosing Ben Simmons in 2016 and Markelle Fultz in 2017 (that after trading UP to get him, and watching Jayson Tatum go to the Celtics at #3)

They had hit a home run with Joel Embid as #3 in the 1st round in 2014, but then followed that with Jahlil Okafor at #3 in the 1st round in 2015.

 

[Agoodnap]

Any chance to get this back on topic or is it a lost cause?

 

[royboy]

Any chance to get this back on topic or is it a lost cause?

Fair enough.

I will say that PSU Wrestling dominance is especially sweet to fans of the Philadelphia teams, who have seen some high points and plenty of disappointments.

 

[PSUNAV]

This goes back a ways, but the Phillies blowing the NL pennant in 1964 has to be on a list of great disappointments.

In mid-September, the Phillies were up 6 games with 17 remaining. They proceeded to lose 13 of the next 15 games (thanks in part to Manager Gene Mauch's dubious strategy of pitching his aces Chris Short and Jim Bunning till their arms nearly fell off), and the St. Louis Cardinals won the NL by one game.

Classic collapse. The World Series drought continued until 1980.

I know they lost one game when Chico Ruiz, of the Reds, stole home for the winning run. I kinda think they may have lost a second game on a bizarre play like that.

 

[El-Jefe]

Yeah, although the Process also consisted of having the #1 overall draft picks in successive years 2016 and 2017, and choosing Ben Simmons in 2016 and Markelle Fultz in 2017 (that after trading UP to get him, and watching Jayson Tatum go to the Celtics at #3)

They had hit a home run with Joel Embid as #3 in the 1st round in 2014, but then followed that with Jahlil Okafor at #3 in the 1st round in 2015.

Agreed. They got the picks but only Embiid worked out.

Simmons was easily the tallest midget in his draft class -- also loved the celebrity lifestyle but didn't even like hoops, much less love it. The scouts should've figured that out, or maybe they did and the analytics guys overruled, or maybe they did and the Sixers said f- it, nobody else worth taking.

Fultz maybe would've been an ok #25 but was an awful #1 in a decent draft class. Classic need over talent pick. Tatum would've been a far better choice, but they probably saw him as overlap with Simmons. They should've taken Tatum anyway and sold high on Simmons.

Okafor had a good rookie year but then fell off a cliff with injuries. After him went Porzingas and 2 rounds of jabronis. I'm not sure that was a bad pick except with 20/20 hindsight. Sometimes that happens. It's magnified when your other picks don't pan out.

 

[RB-Old]

I'm just a Phillies fan so I'll keep it to them
1. Joe Carter
2 Losing to the Astros (cheaters) and the Yankees in 2009 (once again, cheaters)
3. Going 0-2 in games 6-7 while they were at home.

 

[Ja1339]

These Philly stories bringing back some awful memories. I’ll just a couple of Sixers ones to the list..

Andrew Toney suffering foot injury that never healed…he was robbed of a hall of fame career

Magic Johnson starting at center against Sixers when Kareem was injured and dropping 42 points on the Sixers in route to an NBA championship.

Ben Simmons passing up an open layup as we meekly bowed out of the playoffs to the Hawks.

 

[Callthestall]

Mocco?

Lou Banach won 2x at HWT.

For the young and unaware, The Banach Brothers story is very inspirational. Lou might be one the toughest and strongest heavyweights of all time. Lou competed in the unlimited weight weighing no more than 210 pounds. There were some matches he wrestled guys almost twice his weight. I believe he has master's degree from Penn State.
In addition the Mocco story involving his father is also very unique.

 

[Ja1339]

Agreed. They got the picks but only Embiid worked out.

Simmons was easily the tallest midget in his draft class -- also loved the celebrity lifestyle but didn't even like hoops, much less love it. The scouts should've figured that out, or maybe they did and the analytics guys overruled, or maybe they did and the Sixers said f- it, nobody else worth taking.

Fultz maybe would've been an ok #25 but was an awful #1 in a decent draft class. Classic need over talent pick. Tatum would've been a far better choice, but they probably saw him as overlap with Simmons. They should've taken Tatum anyway and sold high on Simmons.

Okafor had a good rookie year but then fell off a cliff with injuries. After him went Porzingas and 2 rounds of jabronis. I'm not sure that was a bad pick except with 20/20 hindsight. Sometimes that happens. It's magnified when your other picks don't pan out.

And the Fultz pick was made worse by the fact that the Celtics fleeced us in the trade.

 

[JOESTROSSER]

I think you got the years right. Add the 2010 Phillies losing in the first round with Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Oswalt, and bats that went dead in October.

Iverson would've won a title if the team had surrounded him with championship talent. Some good players, but there was no McHale or Parish, let alone two.

Philly also has a history of comically bad management:
- Signing the wrong Maddux and the wrong Giambi
- Letting Reggie White and the entire defense walk because the owner objected to free agency
- The Eagles moving their very good OL coach to defensive coordinator and then firing him in 1 year
- The Process (horrible as it was, made logical sense in NBA Salary Cap Hell -- and then the league stepped in and stopped it before it could bear fruit)
- The Flyers firing a head coach approximately every 6 weeks, and then wondering why they can't win a Cup since the mid-70s.

Philly always panics. Hinkie was ready and had the assets to create a winner. Colangelo was a total friggen disaster( I agree the league had a lot to do with it). Who knew that Ben Simmons was a bigger Wussy than Geiger! Don't get me started. Too late, LOL. Hextal was close and had built up a massive amount of assets and as usual management was too impatient. They squandered a lot of those assets for win now scraps. Not much to complain about Phillies other than leaving Mitch Williams in when he was obviously fried. The "That's what we did all season" crap doesn't fly. Oh and they did it again with Kimbrel this year. He was toast!!! Eagles have done well, but just hung on to aging players too long this go round. Gene Mauch, Leroy Keys instead of OJ, ugh I need a drink, LOL.

 

[Callthestall]

I

174 Ruth-Brown-Nickal-Hall-Starocci might be the best run at one weight in NCAA history. AA every year, finalists in all but 2 years (excluding 2020).

I was curious if Oklahoma State had a similar situation with a weight over their great history. They had a couple of weights that were very solid over 8-10 year period.
What was shocking to me was Oklahoma State current history. They have had one national champ since 2017. None other than the sideshow known as A.J.