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McSorley is a better passer and runner and has better pocket presence....what are Clifford’s advantages? Better at handoffs?Yes he did. I’m not making the case Clifford is in front of McSorley at this point in time, just they are in the same ballpark. Clifford has had some rarely mentioned advantages while McSorley’s are often pointed out. McSorley is not in the Collins/Blackledge group.
As for 2016, I think 2019 was a better season.
This is strictly an opinion and is not supported by facts.McSorley is a better passer...
It is supported by facts....more passing yards, more passing yards per completion, more TD passes, fewer INT’s per attempt...they’re just not facts you want to look at.This is strictly an opinion and is not supported by facts.
Unfortunately, this ability is a rather important part of being a QB and both of them had their share of less than stellar passing.
Hope for my cfb enjoyment next year the one who still has eligibility makes a separation in the positive direction and not the negative.
It is supported by facts....more passing yards, more passing yards per completion, more TD passes, fewer INT’s per attempt...they’re just not facts you want to look at.
As we all know, QB's probably get too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when the team loses. Here is one thing to consider....The weapons that PSU had when Trace was the QB were more talented and as a result could pick up the slack when TM had a less than perfect day.What is this mixing and matching of totals and rates? I hope it isn’t an attempt at deception. Also, fewer people look at yards per completion, it is yards per attempt that is the standard. With that said, let’s look at a comparison of relevant QB facts:
Completion %:
McSorley 59.3
Clifford 60.0
Yds/att:
McSorley 8.1
Clifford 8.2
TD/att %:
McSorley 6.3
Clifford 7.1
Int/att %:
McSorley 2.1
Clifford 2.8
So, McSorley was better in one category, hardly definitive proof he is a better passer as you claim.
You accuse me of mixing and matching then you do exactly the same thing to a greater degree. And your completion percentages are incorrect...Clifford is 59.8 and McSorley was 59.6....pretty much the same with McSorley doing it over a three year period and playing most of a year on one leg. And your yards/att is wrong, it’s 7.96 for Clifford and 8.27 for McSorley...so other than your two stats that you’ve randomly decided were important, Clifford isn’t better than McSorley in anything. So your argument that my opinion that McSorley was a better passer wasn’t based on “any facts” was actually incorrect...it’s okay to admit you were wrong.What is this mixing and matching of totals and rates? I hope it isn’t an attempt at deception. Also, fewer people look at yards per completion, it is yards per attempt that is the standard. With that said, let’s look at a comparison of relevant QB facts:
Completion %:
McSorley 59.3
Clifford 60.0
Yds/att:
McSorley 8.1
Clifford 8.2
TD/att %:
McSorley 6.3
Clifford 7.1
Int/att %:
McSorley 2.1
Clifford 2.8
So, McSorley was better in one category, hardly definitive proof he is a better passer as you claim.
My eyes tell me TM was a better QB, kid was a gamer and difference maker, I hope Cliff gets to that level at some point, but I'm not holding out hope after last season..What is this mixing and matching of totals and rates? I hope it isn’t an attempt at deception. Also, fewer people look at yards per completion, it is yards per attempt that is the standard. With that said, let’s look at a comparison of relevant QB facts:
Completion %:
McSorley 59.3
Clifford 60.0
Yds/att:
McSorley 8.1
Clifford 8.2
TD/att %:
McSorley 6.3
Clifford 7.1
Int/att %:
McSorley 2.1
Clifford 2.8
So, McSorley was better in one category, hardly definitive proof he is a better passer as you claim.
All of my stats were based on their respective ratio to pass attempts. Not sure why you think there is any mixing involved. You earlier stated “…more TD passes, fewer INT’s per attempt…”. Do you understand one is a total and the other is a ratio? That is mixing.You accuse me of mixing and matching then you do exactly the same thing to a greater degree.
Clifford is 346 of 577. Works out to 60.0 on a calculator and in excel. McSorley was 720 of 1215, huh,59.3 on both also. crazy how math works. I’m not going to bother typing the yards out because it has the same ending.And your completion percentages are incorrect...Clifford is 59.8 and McSorley was 59.6....pretty much the same with McSorley doing it over a three year period and playing most of a year on one leg. And your yards/att is wrong, it’s 7.96 for Clifford and 8.27 for McSorley.
See thread post #85 made by you and referenced above by me. You mentioned the subject of TDs and interceptions. I just provided an equivalent comparison.so other than your two stats that you’ve randomly decided were important,
I already provided stats. They showed McSorley was worse in 3 out of 4. Your stats show McSorley was worse in 1 out of 2. For you to extrapolate those numbers to claim it proves McSorley was a better passer is something, but then to double down is somewhat entertaining.Clifford isn’t better than McSorley in anything. So your argument that my opinion that McSorley was a better passer wasn’t based on “any facts” was actually incorrect...it’s okay to admit you were wrong.
Clifford is 341 of 570 (59.8%) and Trace was 700 of 1175 (59.6%). Your yardage is wrong too, so I won’t do that either. Crazy how math works when you have the right numbers. And the bottom line is you stated that me saying McSorley was a better passer was based on no facts....that’s completely wrong, it is based on facts (even by your own numbers)...so again, it’s okay to admit you’re wrong.All of my stats were based on their respective ratio to pass attempts. Not sure why you think there is any mixing involved. You earlier stated “…more TD passes, fewer INT’s per attempt…”. Do you understand one is a total and the other is a ratio? That is mixing.
Clifford is 346 of 577. Works out to 60.0 on a calculator and in excel. McSorley was 720 of 1215, huh,59.3 on both also. crazy how math works. I’m not going to bother typing the yards out because it has the same ending.
See thread post #85 made by you and referenced above by me. You mentioned the subject of TDs and interceptions. I just provided an equivalent comparison.
I already provided stats. They showed McSorley was worse in 3 out of 4. Your stats show McSorley was worse in 1 out of 2. For you to extrapolate those numbers to claim it proves McSorley was a better passer is something, but then to double down is somewhat entertaining.
Well, let’s see:Clifford is 341 of 570 (59.8%) and Trace was 700 of 1175 (59.6%). Your yardage is wrong too, so I won’t do that either.
No, the bottom line is you initiated a reply to me when I was responding to someone else about a mocking inquiry about games of significance that Clifford won. You have since tried to steer it to a direct McSorley/Clifford comparison. I’ve played along with your game and still have not seen facts, as in multiple and preferred majority, which support your stance.And the bottom line is you stated that me saying McSorley was a better passer was based on no facts.
Facts is plural. My numbers had 1 value indicating an advantage to McSorley. Facts would be the other 3 values that showed otherwise.it is based on facts (even by your own numbers).
I was only counting stats as a starter. Mop up duty really doesn’t count. And yes, I have given facts...I’m not sure you understand what a fact is. McSorley has more yards passing....fact. McSorley has more TD’s....fact. McSorley has more yards per completion.....fact. McSorley has won more games...fact. McSorley has never had a losing season...fact. McSorley had fewer INT’s per attempt....fact. All those are facts, yet you said my opinion that McSorley was a better passer was not based on “ANY” facts...it’s based on plenty of facts. But you just decide to ignore those facts and bring out your own facts. Your basic argument is wrong, my opinion is based on facts...just because you don’t like those facts, doesn’t make your argument right.Well, let’s see:
5+189+152 = 346
7+319+251 = 577
Who is wrong?
No, the bottom line is you initiated a reply to me when I was responding to someone else about a mocking inquiry about games of significance that Clifford won. You have since tried to steer it to a direct McSorley/Clifford comparison. I’ve played along with your game and still have not seen facts, as in multiple and preferred majority, which support your stance.
Facts is plural. My numbers had 1 value indicating an advantage to McSorley. Facts would be the other 3 values that showed otherwise.
Then you counted wrong.I was only counting stats as a starter.
But garbage time does? That’s going down a slippery slope deciding which actual plays count and which don’t.Mop up duty really doesn’t count.
Half of your facts are career totals. That same reasoning would have Collins behind McSorley.Your basic argument is wrong, my opinion is based on facts...just because you don’t like those facts, doesn’t make your argument right.
Wow, are you really this thick? The point is you stated my opinion wasn’t based on ANY facts....whether you feel the facts I’m using are important or relevant is immaterial....they’re facts no matter how you slice it. So my opinion is based on facts. You’re welcome to disagree with the opinion, but you’re completely wrong when you say it’s not based on facts.Then you counted wrong.
But garbage time does? That’s going down a slippery slope deciding which actual plays count and which don’t.
Half of your facts are career totals. That same reasoning would have Collins behind McSorley.
Also, why do you say more TDs, but then say fewer INT per attempts? Do you not understand the inconsistency?
The majority of people look at efficiency, or whatever term you want to call it, for how effective a QB is. You can be special though.
Furthermore, it is highly probable that Trace would have beaten O$U all 3 times he was our starting QB if our defense did not freaking collapse and our HC did make the most inane 4th down and 5 call in the history of college football.I scanned through some of these posts and I think I just misread some. Surely people are not thinking Sean Clifford is a better QB than Trace.
I am trying to remember those games where Trace singlehandedly lost them for us. Hmmm, which ones were those? Which games was Trace benched for piss poor play? Hmmm, trying to remember those games. Oh, I see it was all Barkley, Geiseski and Godwin. Trace played no role in our only Big 10 title in forever. I think I missed that B10 title Clifford led us to. Focus on results.