Ray Blehar....MM caught in lie?
- Thread starter marshall23
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Are you familiar with Occam's razor?
You can (1) assume that MM told his father, Dranov, JVP, Curley, and Schultz that he witnessed JS engaged in graphic abuse of a child and (2) assume that each one of these men, 2 of whom were medical professionals and none of whom had any history of misconduct and most of whom had stellar employment records (excluding MM's father), chose to ignore that report, and (3) assume that JVP chose to do the "minimum" despite a 60 year impeccable record including terminating employees for far less serious transgressions, and (4) assume that Curley and Schultz chose not to report it to the authorities but only to JS's mandatory reporter boss despite the graphic nature, and (5) assume that Curley and Schultz intentionally misstated what was reported to them to JS's boss at the Second Mile, and (6) assume the Raykovitz heard the story and chose not to report it as he would be required; and (7) can assume that each one of those men lied under oath either before the grand jury or at the prelim or in trial or in depositions, despite the fact that not one of them had ever been accused of a crime, much less convicted, at the time.
Or you can assume that MM lied in 2011 and thereafter regarding what he told people in 2001 (or 2002 depending on which version of his testimony we are looking at).
Give it up! If calling the police was such a no brainer, why the hell did Mike need Joe's instructions?
Oh, another poor dear here. Sadly I don't recognize your posts because you really seem to think you have some witty repsonse there. Ohhh...that's a good one royal...high five to you!!!!! So funny how the same idiots here want to mute anyone not playing woe is me...too damn funny.
You apparently embrace the testimony of the two PSU related victims that didn't take the stand in court.
Given the low quality of your posts, and the fact that you are essentially repeating the same crap over and over... we believe you can type 16 posts in a couple of minutes
Thanks for admitting you are closed minded. So much new info has come out that you have just ignored.
Wrong. Gary Schultz office described the office as the "Head of Campus Security" at the time. Your post is a red herring. If Joe had gone to a Jr. person you'd be complaining about that.
Paterno appears to have been interviewed by police at least four times.
January 12, 2011
May 13, 2011
October 24, 2011
And sometime after the presentment came out in November 2011 (I believe Scott stated that).
I'm sure the information in these interviews could clear up a lot of the speculation. The October 2011 interview was made public by Ziegler. Any chance on getting the others released as well? Could Scott or other family members permit their release through FOIA?
January 12, 2011
May 13, 2011
October 24, 2011
And sometime after the presentment came out in November 2011 (I believe Scott stated that).
I'm sure the information in these interviews could clear up a lot of the speculation. The October 2011 interview was made public by Ziegler. Any chance on getting the others released as well? Could Scott or other family members permit their release through FOIA?
It’s not a red herring. Gary Schultz was not the police. He had no authority to do any police work and trying to use him as an excuse is laughable.
But he had authority over people who did police work. You conveniently left that part out. Just like how the POTUS isn't a soldier, but has authority to make others under him do "soldier work".
I would love to believe either point. So we have Tom Harmon as an option for #1 and 3 other "folks" as options for V2. Someone should be able to figure this out.
You're really earning your paycheck today!
This is such BS! You're trying to bust Joe Paterno because Gary Schultz, Tim Curley, Graham Spanier and Jack Raykovitz weren't high enough on the food chain???? Can you honestly hold any man culpable when that man heard and saw nothing first hand and reported what was only vaguely reported to him up the chain of command, exactly as he was supposed to do? There's no way the university should have permitted Joe's reputation to be tarnished over this. But Corbett sold the BOT a pack of lies!
The only issue in question is whether Mike saw and reported less at the time than he now claims. Even the victim calls him a liar...in writing!
This email exchange proves that Mike was coerced. This is at the heart of everything. This is the smoking gun that proves the fix was in to get PSU from the beginning.
McQueary permitting and ultimately promoting a narrative he knows to be false, under coercion by the OAG, is huge! This should be on the front page of every newspaper in the country. The problem is the press in Harrisburg was in on it the whole time and the national press milked it for everything it could.
I hope Spanier can use this in his appeal.
Again, incorrect. His office called him the "head of campus security" and Spanier counted on him for updates on major issues. Schultz owned ALL of the campus police resources and could bring those to bare, if he wanted to.
As possibly my son you should have more common sense. Here is the only thing that someone
with an iota of it should know is that Paterno's advice to MM should have been to report it to the police.
They are the one's to determine if a crime was committed and who was the victim. If he had done so,
there would be no scandal and his statue would still be up. Beaver Stadium would now be Paterno
Stadium and a shrine would be somewhere on campus. But he didn't and his reputation is in ruins.
And nothing that anyone says on this board is going to change that.
You are such a dolt. I once thought you were fairly intelligent. But you chose to
become Fun reincarnate. How can you say campus police resources with a straight face?
How many arrests has Gary Schultz made? What was his badge number?
Really? You don’t see anything that might cause some doubt and confusion?
it is the victim’s choice whether or not to make such a report
Maybe it would be helpful if I quote directly from the old reporting protocol.
It is important for victims to feel a sense of control in the process of recovery. Therefore, it is important to respect the decisions of the victim; regardless of what the staff member thinks may be best. When certain protocols require that the incident be reported, the victim must be informed of the mandated notification.
I’ll ask again - do you find of this university procedure potentially confusing with regard to the situation Paterno was presented with, especially with an unknown victim?
oh...a 'police' is now measured by his number of arrests? So, Joe should have called an older beat cop who has built his resume arresting kids that drank underage and drove bikes without headlights?
Very good.....got it....that will be completely effective. Missed that. What a great idea.
No, not at all. Because company (University) policy never prevents people from reporting a crime.
As long as one of the people being convicted is Tom Corbett.
First, who was going to be arrested? It was the next day. Nobody was going to be dispatched to make an arrest. All evidence, Joe/Dranov/Dad/MM, stated he was almost incoherent and inexact. What arrests are you going to make from that?
Second, Schultz had every resource, including Harmon, to utilize. That isn't on Joe Paterno, that is on Gary Schultz.
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Yes, that is on Gary who himself failed (even more than Paterno). However equating telling him about the incident to making a report to police is nonsensical.
Who are you trying to kid? NOBODY called the police. So the only conclusion you can draw is that it wasn't a police action. MM admits he gave Joe a watered down version and both Dad and Dranov both stated MM was nearly hysterical.
What was a policeperson going to do? kIck it to someone upstairs. By Schultz office description, he was the top cop. As such, he had the resources to assign resources. he, apparently, did not.
I have NO IDEA how how you blame Joe for Schultz, the head of campus police, lack of action.
This is all anyone needs to know if they already didn't is that if someone comes to you and says
they possibly saw a crime, here is what you do. Tell them to call the police. Simple, easy and
more effective than anything you can do.
they possibly saw a crime, here is what you do. Tell them to call the police. Simple, easy and
more effective than anything you can do.
Nobody calling the police was the problem you moron. "So the only conclusion you can draw is that it wasn't a police action.". It obviously was and only someone as stupid as you would think otherwise.
Except...for some reason, both PSU and the NCAA have a different policy. If you are a coach, you tell the AD and you make sure it is also reported outside the sports reporting structure. So, you must be wrong but I am sure you won't "get that"
Funny....MM, Dad, Dranov, Schultz, Curley....not a single one called anyone but Paterno who got the head of campus police involved...yet, you blame Paterno. Go figure.
I think it's your fault Osprey. Everybody at PSU knew. You were one of them that did nothing to stop JS. Part of the culture problem.
Don't confuse the assholes with the facts.
Stone Hall in the East Halls dorm complex currently has a sign made with Post-it Notes going across several windows saying "JoePa was innocent." At least the students get it.
When one is caught in a lie......its fair to ask,"what else did you lie about?" Please google "layout of Lasch Locker room." I invite you to check out the sight lines and then believe what MM says he "saw."
The very fact that people like Ira Lubert and Paul Suhey didn't leap to the defense of JVP.....tells you all you need to know about the integrity of Joe Paterno.
Now, this I will agree with. It is apparent from his actions at the time- not testimony ten years later- that he either wasn’t sure that a crime was committed or thought that going to Curley and Schultz would invoke a police report being made.
Except when federal law requires universities to follow their sexual assault procedures. The same federal law that mandated a lot of those clauses in PSU’s procedures. Also - you failed to answer my question on whether those procedures posed problems in what t9 d9 when the victim was unknown.
The Clery Act report on Penn State makes no mention of the specific policies that were in effect in 2001. However, there are a handful of extracts from the report that are important in understanding what the Clery Act requires. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/sites/...center/cleryact/pennstate/PSCFPRD10327991.pdf
At page 49:
One of the central precepts of the Clery Act is an acknowledgement of the fact that students and employees in a higher education setting will often opt to not report crimes directly to law enforcement and will instead choose to first, and perhaps solely, report to another trusted source. This required disclosure reflects that reality and stands for the principle that victims and witnesses should have these options and deserve to know where such reports can be directed and what actions will follow from filing a report.
At page 19:
Under the Clery Act, institutions are required to comply with the policies and procedures established by the institution.
Paragraph 8.B.(v) In the Clery Act is most relevant to the above quotes and describes one of the items that must be included in university sexual assault procedures:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCOD...11-title20-chap28-subchapIV-partF-sec1092.htm
8.B. The policy described in subparagraph (A) shall address the following areas:
8.B.(v) Informing students of their options to notify proper law enforcement authorities, including on-campus and local police, and the option to be assisted by campus authorities in notifying such authorities, if the student so chooses.
"If the student so chooses." In other words, it is the victim's decision whether or not police are informed. Now, this isn't always the case. And the Clery Act gives universities flexibility in how they craft their procedures. But this is one of the basic elements.
This element was codified in a 1992 amendment to the Clery Act, known as the Federal Campus Sexual Assault Victims' Bill of Rights.
And this why PSU sex assault reporting procedures were written the way they were in 1995.
Frank Noonan the State Police Commissioner was never a Policeman.
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