Real Talk, PSU & Cael Duck No-One
- Thread starter Law-Deezie
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I'm giving Brands a pass. Clark is hurt and it will be proven the rest of the season
Would be happy to weigh in with an opinion. Which guys from other teams have been held out of competition when healthy? [not counting for disciplinary reasons, demotion, or shirting]
Joseph ducked 0-23 Anthony Petrone last week
I can't speak for Brands, but in the past he has sat starters before in duals, when there is an adequate backup to rest the starter. Evans has rested before and Meyer took the start multiple times. Laux has wrestled for Clark before. Brooks spot started for lofthouse and Burak at 84/97 his RS FR year.
Sometimes maybe an occasional rest can be a motivational tool too, he said in his interview tonight that Holloway wasn't happy about being rested against Medbery, but he made the decision.
I feel that PSU has done this in the past too, to give the experienced backups a chance at occasional spot starts in duals with a foregone conclusion.
Just my take on it.
The next time I think Cael or Brands sit anybody to protect any thing other than body parts it will be the first time.
Since Missouri sat undefeated #1 Dom Bradley vs, the Pokes, when Gelogaev had pinned him the last time they met? Hard to find one remotely that blatant.
Last year Nevills went to an open in Colorado last year, instead of facing Marsden in the NWCA Dual. Of course it was to get him matches, but the competition was considerably lesser.
The fact that Bo Jordon did not wrestle tonight has most boards having heated debates with holding wrestlers out (many felt if Jordon was able to wrestle and beat an quality wrestler in Alex Meyer, he should have gone tonight). There was also heat as allowing wrestlers who have not wrestled for a substantial amount of time to be in or maintain their rankings.
Having no knowledge of how injured or other circumstances involved with not wrestling a starting wrestler, I am somewhat neutral. I do have to give Cael and company credit for doing whatever he can to avoid forfeits and since Cutch and Jimmy wrestled most all of last year with injuries and he put a game and undersized Jan Johnson in for most of last season.
I just watched Tom Ryan's prematch interview with Shane Sparks and could hardly believe my ears! He talked about how he has dreamed of this type of match in a filled arena, how the fans would be treated to an exciting match etc. All this knowing he was going to sit starters and he had to realize what a disappointment it was going to be for those in attendance and those viewing on TV.
http://s200.trackwrestling.com/tw/P...twSessionId=pkcobhqqibfezeo&videoId=321455076
Not sure about my tech ability but this is where I saw the video. I can live with injured being out but telling stories that seem to contradicts ones knowledge irks me. Then the select matches wrestled and no effect on one's ranking just seems out of place.
Having no knowledge of how injured or other circumstances involved with not wrestling a starting wrestler, I am somewhat neutral. I do have to give Cael and company credit for doing whatever he can to avoid forfeits and since Cutch and Jimmy wrestled most all of last year with injuries and he put a game and undersized Jan Johnson in for most of last season.
I just watched Tom Ryan's prematch interview with Shane Sparks and could hardly believe my ears! He talked about how he has dreamed of this type of match in a filled arena, how the fans would be treated to an exciting match etc. All this knowing he was going to sit starters and he had to realize what a disappointment it was going to be for those in attendance and those viewing on TV.
http://s200.trackwrestling.com/tw/P...twSessionId=pkcobhqqibfezeo&videoId=321455076
Not sure about my tech ability but this is where I saw the video. I can live with injured being out but telling stories that seem to contradicts ones knowledge irks me. Then the select matches wrestled and no effect on one's ranking just seems out of place.
Clark sat again last night so it sure looks like he did in fact aggravate his shoulder injury against Penn State. Sitting Holloway for no apparent reason does raise an eyebrow however.
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Rankings aren't the issue IMO, it's seeding. Maybe I'm getting into semantics...anyone can rank whoever wherever.
If you want to make duals matter more, they need to affect the postseason. Have a threshold for matches wrestled in seeding, and if they don't meet it give them a reduction.
If a guy can't go due to injury make them announce a day before-hand and they become ineligible. Etc, etc.
When has Cael done this? I can't remember when Cael has ever sat a guy to protect their seeding. There is a difference when you hold a starter out against a top guy because you don't want him taking a loss and holding a guy out for another reason. A good example is VJ against Northwestern. It was Northwestern's backup so Cael chose to go with his backup. For one, we know VJ would steam roll the NW backup, who is only being called on at the last minute because of a failed skin test, and secondly it was a great opportunity to reward a kid like Caleb Livingston for his hard work. Livingston got a start at Rec Hall against another backup, which was a fair thing to do.
There was no need to trot out VJ to punish a back up at NW would have been way out of his league. Those are the times when it's reasonable to use a back up kid. Ducking top competition for seeding purposes is garbage. Cael doesn't do that.
If he sits him, he sits him. No problem from me. My problem is when he lectures the importance of duals and wants to change our crown jewel back stabs other coaches and then sits his guys.
Sanctimonious speaches and hypocritical actions is what bugs me of ryan.
That and rumors of him being a dirty recruiter.
Sanctimonious speaches and hypocritical actions is what bugs me of ryan.
That and rumors of him being a dirty recruiter.
I have no problem with any coach doing what he feels gives his wrestler the best chance to win a national title or reach AA status. If its sitting a kid to protect his seed, so be it. Cael's approach seems to be that wrestling the best, win or lose, makes you better. His approach is working just fine.
My problem with last night was Ohio State invited 15,000+ wrestling fans to their big event and then failed to put their best available product on the mat.
15,000 fans is significant. Ohio State joined a very select group of wrestling programs. I could be mistaken but I believe only Iowa and Penn State have previously surpassed 15,000.
The 15,000+ still got to see the best wrestling in the nation....except it was virtually all provided by the Beast Of The East as per usual (i.e., the winners of 5 of the last 6 National Team Champions)! I guess Prudence can't blame this one on a bus ride or average officiating....LMFAO!
That dual last night may have helped PSU with future recruits in Ohio. If you are a younger wrestler and went last night how couldn't you have come away more impressed with PSU than the home team? I agree with some others on here. Tom Ryan hyped up a big dua, but basically threw in the towel before it even started. I for one would be pissed if I were an OSU fan. You don't get an opportunity to give 15,000+ fans a great dual very often. You need to make the most of it if you are Tom Ryan.
Can't "duck" anyone at B1G's and NCAA's. Too many judging the coaches prior to the big show...some justified, some not, though I doubt (no, I'm sure) many know the details of why some wrestlers miss bouts. Privacy rules prevent us from knowing, so the empty airwaves are filled with conspiracy thoughts.
As a fan that attended last nights dual, I was disappointed the Hall/Jordan bout didn't happen...but heard he was a game-time decision. Not sure why that was, so just rolled with it and celebrated the big picture, a win over a top-4 program at their house. That's awesome, no? Really hitting our stride.
As a fan that attended last nights dual, I was disappointed the Hall/Jordan bout didn't happen...but heard he was a game-time decision. Not sure why that was, so just rolled with it and celebrated the big picture, a win over a top-4 program at their house. That's awesome, no? Really hitting our stride.
I'm not a big fan of Ryan, but let's assume that Bo has an injury, but if needed, he could have went last night. After Nick's 5 points, no pin at 133 and Jimmy's win, why would Ryan want to risk it? Dual was over at that point.
I still give Brands the benefit of the doubt. Agree with the part about Clark, but don't see how Holloway can be considered ducking. He is a backup to a top 5 guy, not a real heavy, and is ranked 112th (wrestlestat since no one else ranks that far out). Nothing against Holloway, but he is not expected to beat anyone, won't be in the tourney, and is just filling in, a la Jan Johnson. No one they have does any better against Medbery or any other ranked heavy so makes no difference.
This is the $64,000 question, imo. Too many Ryan haters here, so doubt any reason is good enough...despite no one really truly knowing.
IF he was completely healthy, which most of me doubts, you wrestle the guy because it's good for the sport and puts the best product on the mat. IF he is not completely healthy, you keep an eye on the prize and hold him out.
Don't need you fixing my posts or your snide remarks. Sure do have a high opinion of yourself around here and it's getting old.
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I have the same opinion of myself around here as I have of Brands sitting Holloway: none.
Thanks, seriously doubt that, but check's in the mail anyway.
We have an awful lot of really good people here.
Yes, it;s all about seeding for sure hands down....Something must be done about this because it's so unfair,,,Now Jordan will get the top seed without even earning it....They knew Hall should have beat the guy from Iowa in his first match that Jordan only beat by 1 and should have lost,,,,Hall was going to beat him and wanted him bad from what i seen twice in the room last week... That was total BS from Ryan last night...Jordan wanted to wrestle...Hope it comes back to hunt him in the Big Ten Tournament where we will all be there !!!! Kama is a B----....
Why does it matter if Jordan gets a higher seed than Hall? Hall could probably use the extra work in preparation for Nationals, anyway.
Cael has sat Jimmy before for confidence issues or let other guys wrestle in spots when they have earned it.Brands has given guys the week off as well. It usually coincides with our backup wrestling an equal guy or where it doesn't matter. Wilcke did not sit yesterday...but he will tomorrow.
