Do Rahm and Lowry look like athletes to you?
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RIP Jim Brown, age 87
- Thread starter Obliviax
- Start date
Lowry is the one slob on the PGA. Rahm is just thick all over. Did you watch the PGA today ? Everyone of those guys - with the exception of Lowery - looked really fit. You're grasping for extremes. These younger guys today work out and are athletes whether you want to admit or not.Do Rahm and Lowry look like athletes to you?
I see now that it's beyond your comprehension to think that Nicklaus was perhaps just being modest and gracious about the competition that he faced back then compared to the players today. Tiger's physical fitness definitely slimmed down and improved the physique of future golfers, but that alone doesn't win majors. If that was the case, how does a guy that's age 51 win the PGA like Mickelson did last year because he doesn't have the physique of all the young guys right????
No doubt he was being gracious - but also honest. He was the one that brought up the massive amount of worldwide golfers now on the Tour that he didn't have to face. He had probably Gary Player as his lone International threat. Take a look at today's PGA Tour and the amount of outstanding international golfers. Heck, just go back the last dozen or so years and look at the Internationals that have won on the PGA Tour and Majors. Gary Player was the lone exception for Nicklaus.
And yes, you are correct, being slim and in shape doesn't guarantee wins and you're using the one fifty something Major win as an example. I don't care for Mickelson but will give the man his due ----- he's one of the all-time greats. I would imagine Woods - if he somehow stays healthy - could challenge and win at 50 but then again, you're talking about two of the greatest players of all time. The somewhat good or decent PGA player usually bolts for the Senior Champions Tour at 50 or thereabouts.
I'm 72 now and have learned to accept the fact that the athletes - in all sports - are just bigger, faster, and more skilled than the era I grew up and played in. Oh, and there's more of them to choose from. In 30 years, our children will probably be saying the same thing and a lot of that can be attributed to modern training and nutrition (of course)
I had a cousin that played briefly on the PGA Tour back in the late 60s and 70s and became close friends with Arnold Palmer. Arnie and my cousin went on to develop a few golf courses together after their golfing days were done. They became close friends until Arnie passed away 6 or 7 years ago.
To make a long story short, even Arnie would comment on the talent that was currently on the Tour and boosted by International players and the was in the 2000s and 2010s. Think about his comments today. You can look at any PGA leaderboard and see a decent International representation on it. I believe every continent now has members on the PGA Tour.
And I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of the great ones from the 60s and 70s - Arnie, Jack, Lee Trevino, Gary Player and later Watson and Miller. I consider their era to be the golden age of the PGA and what paved the way for today's game. But let's be honest, it's much, much harder to win on the PGA Tour today then it was a few decades ago. IMHO. any 20 something kid on the Tour today that goes on to win 15 to 20 tournaments and 3 or 4 Majors should be a lock for the HOF. Hell, there's 50 or so guys on the PGA Tour today that has a shot at winning a tournament.
Gotta love this board. Where else where eulogies to Jim Brown turn into a discussion about who are the greatest golfers?
That's why I'm here - VARIETY. It doesn't get any better than this board
Local paper had this.....
Jim Brown was the fifth player takin in the 1957 NFL draft.
The Browns wanted a QB. the two marquee QBs were John Brodie and Len Dawson. The Browns drafted 6th, on stop after the Steelers draft at 5.
6. Browns, with the best QBs gone, took Jim Brown
Jim Brown was the fifth player takin in the 1957 NFL draft.
The Browns wanted a QB. the two marquee QBs were John Brodie and Len Dawson. The Browns drafted 6th, on stop after the Steelers draft at 5.
- Green Bay took Paul Horning first.
- LA Rams - Jon Arnett, a halfback from USC (oops)
- 49ers took Brodie
- Green Bay had a second pick and too Ron Kramer, a WR from Michigan.
- Stellers took Len Dawson
6. Browns, with the best QBs gone, took Jim Brown
Wow, that was a blockbuster draft. Most of them - if not all - have to be in the HOF
Bruce Crampton and Bruce Devlin were very fine international golfers. Bobby Locke (before Jack's time) was close to a dominating player before an injury. Peter Thompson won something like 5 or 6 British Opens. So, it is not like the pro tour was devoid of international players.
I will grant you that say from the top 31st player to the 1000th best player the tours are much deeper now than previously. However, at the very top, Nicklaus and Tiger Woods would more than hold their own against Jon Rahm, Rory McElroy and Koepka of today's players. You can see Nicklaus and Tiger making clutch shots decade after decade which is not present with current players. Tiger in fact won something like 5 or 6 tournaments in a row early in his career against very good fields, which is truly amazing and probably equal or better than Byron Nelson's streak of 11 or 12. Nobody has ever matched Hogan in ball striking.
Here is the current list of the top 60 players. Do you think any of them are in the class of Nicklaus or Woods. Cantlay, Schauffle (sp) and Homa at 4, 5 & 6 substantially undercut your position. https://www.cbssports.com/golf/rankings/
I tried to find the top money winners list from 1972 that would be applicable to Jack, but couldn't find it.
My previous post made me curious about Bobby Locke, the South African. Here is a brief summary from Wiki: "
He hosted Sam Snead, one of the top American golfers of the day, for a series of exhibition matches in South Africa in January/February 1947, winning 12 out of the 16 matches, two were halved and Snead won two.[4]: 147 So impressed was Snead that he suggested that Locke come to the United States and give the PGA Tour a try, advice that Locke quickly followed.[9]
Locke arrived in the U.S. for the first time in April 1947, well after the American Tour season had begun. In two-and-a-half years on the PGA Tour, Locke played in 59 events; he won 11, and finished in the top three in 30, just over half. In 1947, despite a late start, Locke dominated the American tour, winning six tournaments (including four in a five-week period), and finishing second to Jimmy Demaret on the money list." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Locke
He hosted Sam Snead, one of the top American golfers of the day, for a series of exhibition matches in South Africa in January/February 1947, winning 12 out of the 16 matches, two were halved and Snead won two.[4]: 147 So impressed was Snead that he suggested that Locke come to the United States and give the PGA Tour a try, advice that Locke quickly followed.[9]
Locke arrived in the U.S. for the first time in April 1947, well after the American Tour season had begun. In two-and-a-half years on the PGA Tour, Locke played in 59 events; he won 11, and finished in the top three in 30, just over half. In 1947, despite a late start, Locke dominated the American tour, winning six tournaments (including four in a five-week period), and finishing second to Jimmy Demaret on the money list." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Locke
wow, never heard of him....after the Sneed thing, he was banned by the PGA
In 1948, he won the Chicago Victory National by 16 strokes, which remains a PGA Tour record for margin of victory (tied for margin of victory with J. Douglas Edgar's win in the 1919 Canadian Open).[10]
The following year, Locke was banned from the tour, ostensibly because of a dispute over playing commitments. Locke had indeed given several advance commitments to appear at tournaments and exhibitions, then had not turned up nor given adequate notice nor explanations for his absences.[9] However, the 1948 Masters champion Claude Harmon stated, unsolicited, to another golf personality during that era: "Locke was simply too good. They had to ban him."[11] The ban was lifted in 1951, but Locke chose not to return to play in the United States, except for a few isolated appearances.
My point is that the athletes today are just bigger, better, stronger and faster in just about every sport with the possible exception of Baseball which seems to be sliding backwards over the decades.
I'm not trying to diminish anything that Jack and Tiger did but I remember growing up in the 50s and 60s (yes, I'm an old, old fart) and remembering my father and grandfather talk about golf's Bobby Jones, football's Otto Graham, and of course Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth, Jesse Owens and on and on ......and how the kids today couldn't carry their jock straps. Bobby Jones totally dominated the early Golf scene until he retired at an extremely young age.
Well, as time went on, I learned to let them have their say but deep down knew they were full of BS as I saw players like Jim Brown, Lew Alcindor (Jabbar), and yes, Jack and Arnie come along but if you listen to Dad and Granddad, those clowns (Jack and Arnie) couldn't stack up against Ben Hogan and Bobby Jones. They had their favorites and wouldn't acknowledge just how good some of these kids were (Jack and Arnie). Carl Lewis and Usain Bolt came along and would smoke Jesse Owens
Kind of see where I'm going with this? Many of us - especially when we get older - don't want to recognize the new whipper snappers compared to our heroes that we rooted for. We only want to remember the great moments of our favorites. And let me say that Jack was - and still is - my all-time favorite golfer. But with that said, these kids today are just better - in all sports - as a group than the older guys and it will be the same 3 or 4 decades from now. It just comes down to advanced nutrition, training and numbers - and the numbers make it impossible to come close to the records (Jack and Tiger) set. Just the way I view it FWIW.
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