The idea of defining exact stalling situations is not a bad idea. You have a point though. If the official then limits his stall calls to only what is explicitly defined the "Houston, we have a problem".
Rule Changes Coming?
- Thread starter RoarLions1
- Start date
SIAP (some of these have been mentioned above)...Here is what has come from the NCAA rules survey to coaches:
1. Removing requirement for ankle bands
2. Moving to a 6 min match from 7 min (what!?), all periods being 2 min. each like in high school
3. Removing 285 lb. limit for HWT
4. host site can designate that video review is limited to referee reviews only (not sure if this means no independent review or no coaches challenges)
5. changing the first sudden victory OT period from 1 min to 2 min
6. Awarding 3 points for first takedown
7. Awarding 3 points for ALL takedowns
8. Stopping riding time when the offensive wrestler is called for stalling in the rear standing position
9. If an illegal hold is used in an attempt to defend a successful takedown, reversal, or near fall, let wrestling continue and give opportunity for offensive wrestler to score if hold isn't determined to be dangerous
10. In the neutral position, awarding one point when an opponent steps out of the competition circle with both feet
11. Allow a wrestler to weigh in one weight class above their weight class and drop back down without implementing the descent plan
12. Allow a two hour weigh-in on each day of a multi-day tournament
13. Allow wrestlers to use saunas except for 24 hour period prior to weigh-in of any NCAA competition
14. Requiring a mandatory drop down count when offensive wrestler in a cross body ride and grabs the far ankle
15. Giving wrestler choice of position for any technical violation by opposing coach (didn't really understand the exact wording of this one)
1. Removing requirement for ankle bands
2. Moving to a 6 min match from 7 min (what!?), all periods being 2 min. each like in high school
3. Removing 285 lb. limit for HWT
4. host site can designate that video review is limited to referee reviews only (not sure if this means no independent review or no coaches challenges)
5. changing the first sudden victory OT period from 1 min to 2 min
6. Awarding 3 points for first takedown
7. Awarding 3 points for ALL takedowns
8. Stopping riding time when the offensive wrestler is called for stalling in the rear standing position
9. If an illegal hold is used in an attempt to defend a successful takedown, reversal, or near fall, let wrestling continue and give opportunity for offensive wrestler to score if hold isn't determined to be dangerous
10. In the neutral position, awarding one point when an opponent steps out of the competition circle with both feet
11. Allow a wrestler to weigh in one weight class above their weight class and drop back down without implementing the descent plan
12. Allow a two hour weigh-in on each day of a multi-day tournament
13. Allow wrestlers to use saunas except for 24 hour period prior to weigh-in of any NCAA competition
14. Requiring a mandatory drop down count when offensive wrestler in a cross body ride and grabs the far ankle
15. Giving wrestler choice of position for any technical violation by opposing coach (didn't really understand the exact wording of this one)
Assume Nolf catch and release w/ no NF or Reversals, it goes to the 3rd period, and each wrestler takes bottom until TF, then I believe the following scores result for the TD to Escape ratios:
2-/1 ratio:
Final Score 29-14, requiring 14 TDs.
3/1 ratio:
Final Score 25-8 requiring 8 TDs.
How can 8 TDs over the same duration be more exciting than 14 TDs?
Last edited:
In particular from neutral, a shot clock, even if it's kept in the refs head would be nice. Force some of the more passive refs to call stalling and should lead to more consistent matches. Anything to take the "judgement call" out of the hands of the officials.
I like a 30 second countdown timer on top after takedown only to exclude any choice of bottom (injury, 2nd or third periods).
After each NF indicated (even before awarded), the countdown timer is reset and continues from 30 sec again.
Once a timer expires, stand them back up to neutral without escape point. The 30 secs matches nicely with TB1 and TB2 periods.
Keep normal escape point and 2:1 ratio.
I don't see the need to eliminate the riding time point. Riding time can accumulate as it always has.
After each NF indicated (even before awarded), the countdown timer is reset and continues from 30 sec again.
Once a timer expires, stand them back up to neutral without escape point. The 30 secs matches nicely with TB1 and TB2 periods.
Keep normal escape point and 2:1 ratio.
I don't see the need to eliminate the riding time point. Riding time can accumulate as it always has.
For those who don't like adding more than two points for a takedown. Go big then. Borrow ideas from swimming and gymnastics. Degree of difficulty on the takedown and style points for a takedown. Have an extra three judge panel who only add to the regular 2 takedown points. A head inside single that gets stuffed and takes 45 seconds to finish gets the standard 2 points. Nolf on a Winn Dixie (which when he first did it referees didn't know what to call) gets two from the ref and three points from the side judges for a 5 point takedown.
Bo Nickal against Gabe Dean in the NCAA finals on the edge got a takedown. I still don't know what the hell he actually did. That deserve a 5 point takedown. All of Bo's career takedowns probably would have been five.
All of you people who like freestyle, we are taking your judging idea. Keep the rest of your rules where they are.
The only restriction I see is for there not to be judges from the former Soviet Block nations and there is a second problem with NCAAs site committee. Eight mats requiring 3 additional sitting judges for each mat would require a lot more space. Therefore, the NCAA would try to do something stupid like putting the greatest of all sports championship tournament in a larger space like an indoor football stadium. That would be as stupid a calling stalling 2x in 17 seconds.
Bo Nickal against Gabe Dean in the NCAA finals on the edge got a takedown. I still don't know what the hell he actually did. That deserve a 5 point takedown. All of Bo's career takedowns probably would have been five.
All of you people who like freestyle, we are taking your judging idea. Keep the rest of your rules where they are.
The only restriction I see is for there not to be judges from the former Soviet Block nations and there is a second problem with NCAAs site committee. Eight mats requiring 3 additional sitting judges for each mat would require a lot more space. Therefore, the NCAA would try to do something stupid like putting the greatest of all sports championship tournament in a larger space like an indoor football stadium. That would be as stupid a calling stalling 2x in 17 seconds.
Cherrypicking arguably the greatest takedown artist in recent history doesn't make your point. Maybe the guys that are now getting one takedown go for two, or the guy that gets two goes for three, and so on. If there were dozens of Nolf's out there, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Last edited:
I've always wanted a reversal to be scored as an escape plus a takedown. A 3 point move.
This comes up periodically, mostly when there is a reversal in the 2nd and 3rd periods. A reversal after the referee's position, if an escape follows, is no different than an escape.
Does the NCAA ever "test" new rules in a competition environment? Too often, rule changes lead to unintended consequences--it would be cool if there were some exhibition tourneys or something where things could be tested.
One thing I've often wondered about--is why not just expand points over all? I think most people think a takedown should be worth more than twice an escape--but three times as much is kind of a big jump. What about 5 points for a takedown, and 2 for an escape, for example? Calibrate/Adjust NF accordingly too. Bonus point totals would also have to change, and refs may run out of fingers to hold up--but it's an idea...
One thing I've often wondered about--is why not just expand points over all? I think most people think a takedown should be worth more than twice an escape--but three times as much is kind of a big jump. What about 5 points for a takedown, and 2 for an escape, for example? Calibrate/Adjust NF accordingly too. Bonus point totals would also have to change, and refs may run out of fingers to hold up--but it's an idea...
And, just like the Supreme Court, the refs will issue a ruling roughly every month, but only when in session and after lengthy hearings.
IDK how many decades fans need to complain about the refs not calling stalling, before reality sets in.
Never heard of D1 doing it but will defer to others.
However, this does occasionally happen at youth and HS levels. No reason some of these can't be tested at major off-season events like Super 32.
Tan Tom would need to order Costco-sized cases of challenge bricks.For those who don't like adding more than two points for a takedown. Go big then. Borrow ideas from swimming and gymnastics. Degree of difficulty on the takedown and style points for a takedown. Have an extra three judge panel who only add to the regular 2 takedown points. A head inside single that gets stuffed and takes 45 seconds to finish gets the standard 2 points. Nolf on a Winn Dixie (which when he first did it referees didn't know what to call) gets two from the ref and three points from the side judges for a 5 point takedown.
Bo Nickal against Gabe Dean in the NCAA finals on the edge got a takedown. I still don't know what the hell he actually did. That deserve a 5 point takedown. All of Bo's career takedowns probably would have been five.
All of you people who like freestyle, we are taking your judging idea. Keep the rest of your rules where they are.
The only restriction I see is for there not to be judges from the former Soviet Block nations and there is a second problem with NCAAs site committee. Eight mats requiring 3 additional sitting judges for each mat would require a lot more space. Therefore, the NCAA would try to do something stupid like putting the greatest of all sports championship tournament in a larger space like an indoor football stadium. That would be as stupid a calling stalling 2x in 17 seconds.
Yup. The AB final this year with T Hidlay is the case in point. AB is down to start the second. 30 seconds in he gets the reversal and almost NF points, and Hidlay got away. 2-1 for AB. No different score differential than if AB got away clean and it is 1-0. The reversal should be awarded better in this case.
Only beer at the NCAA Wrestling Championship venue
.
No more tiebreaker periods. Let the wrestlers settle it on their feet. Don't care how it's done. (1) Consecutive 1-minute SV periods. (2) Lengthen the SV period to two-minutes. Whatever.
Bellying out the bottom man for 4 seconds is simply giving the top man choice of releasing the bottom man without being penalized one point for doing so. He can continue to ride as long as he wants if he wants to attempt turns. While we all enjoy the drama of the pin, we should also encourage young wrestlers to become takedown artists by rewarding them the full 2 points rather than the 1 net point they currently receive for takedown and release. It just always bothered me that TD’s are really just worth 1 pt as I watch the RBY’s get well earned 2 points for a takedown only to hand 1 pt to the other wrestler when freely released. If you’re being ridden and earn the escape give the point. If you are given an escape while laying flat then award nothing.
30 sec tie breakers first with each wrestler getting his choice of top bottom or neutral and if still tied, sudden victory until there is a score
No step out ref can see like everyone watching if a someone is just pushing or someone back pedaling, same with top or bottom working for tilt or escape. Call it. Top with dbl boots damn hard to get a base let alone escape on good riders but if top doesnt turn stall mate simple same with ankle trap
Catch and release is boring to the fans and is counter to wrestling's ultimate goal---the pin. Eliminate the TF and you eliminate catch and release. What do you like best: 1) seeing Zain going for a pin with the bow and arrow, or 2) seeing him play catch and release with an inferior opponent while working for a TF?
I dunno man, the "drunken sailor" Jason Nolf catch & release spectacle is some of the most entertaining wrestling I've ever witnessed. I guess he'd often finish it with a nice pancake or headlock or cradle, but the off balance and constant attacking was something. That is admittedly somewhat of an outlier though.
3 points for reversal
Enforce the already existing stalling rules on a consistent basis
Enforce the already existing stalling rules on a consistent basis
Boring to the fans? You're not speaking for me.
As far as the Zain reference, he's an all-time great, and was an uber-pinner his last 3 seasons...so a bad example to make a point for the average wrestler. I'll go there, though, just to take an opposing view. Kyle Snyder was a superstar too, but only had 8 pins in his entire career. In his freshman year, he had none. Yet I thoroughly enjoyed watching him wrestle.
Catch-release will be the predominant skill-set of some, pinning will be a talent of others, and winning by one point will be the talent level of still others. In the big picture, more wrestlers attempting and earning takedowns increases the action and is good for the sport, imo.
easy... if Zane only gets one of those bow and arrow tilts or turns, I would rather watch the masterful one put on a takedown clinic. BTW - Jason had more than a handful of falls
I still want continuation to count after a brick is thrown even when the ref blows the call and points are due. One of these days it is going to bite the sport in the ass big time.
To 'think' a brick from Ryan might just have reversed Bo's pin of Martin in the finals due to a possible missing 2 NF points for Martin is "unthinkable".
To 'think' a brick from Ryan might just have reversed Bo's pin of Martin in the finals due to a possible missing 2 NF points for Martin is "unthinkable".
If the JV matches become a thing (as they should), then they should test out rules there.
Like MLB does with the minors or spring training
I’ve said this a number of times that the free release is a slippery slope. A crappy rider should not be able to remove the opponent’s ability to earn the escape point.
1. Riding time can only be earned after a takedown or reversal.
2. Riding time only earned in 30 second increments.
3. After 30 seconds of being on top, back to neutral
4. Tie matches are decided by the biggest score, then the most takedowns, or first takedown
5. If matches need to go to overtime, it is sudden victory from neutral with no time limit
6. Intentionally grabbing the the edge of the mat or putting foot/leg off the mat is a stall call
7. If the top man from a standing position takes the bottom man off the mat, it is a stall call (I actually won a third place match in high school on this call, kept hitting a standup in the last period and got 2 stall calls, to send to OT).
8. Reviews limited to 1 minute, the purpose is to correct obvious bad calls, not to correct bang/bang judgement calls.
9. Lose the review, either a point, a stall call or the opponent gets choice
10. Coaches have to say in their chair, warning and a match point, then a team point and match point
11. Put an inner ring 3 feet in from the outer ring of the mat and call it a warning area. If a wrestler intentionally enters the warning area from neutral, start a five count. At the end of five, if both feet are not out of the warning area, it is a stall warning. Need to eliminate wrestlers hanging out on the edge of the mat. Wrestlers should not get rewarded for bulldozing an opponent off the mat.
12. From a neutral start, if you take a step back off the whistle, it is a stall call.
2. Riding time only earned in 30 second increments.
3. After 30 seconds of being on top, back to neutral
4. Tie matches are decided by the biggest score, then the most takedowns, or first takedown
5. If matches need to go to overtime, it is sudden victory from neutral with no time limit
6. Intentionally grabbing the the edge of the mat or putting foot/leg off the mat is a stall call
7. If the top man from a standing position takes the bottom man off the mat, it is a stall call (I actually won a third place match in high school on this call, kept hitting a standup in the last period and got 2 stall calls, to send to OT).
8. Reviews limited to 1 minute, the purpose is to correct obvious bad calls, not to correct bang/bang judgement calls.
9. Lose the review, either a point, a stall call or the opponent gets choice
10. Coaches have to say in their chair, warning and a match point, then a team point and match point
11. Put an inner ring 3 feet in from the outer ring of the mat and call it a warning area. If a wrestler intentionally enters the warning area from neutral, start a five count. At the end of five, if both feet are not out of the warning area, it is a stall warning. Need to eliminate wrestlers hanging out on the edge of the mat. Wrestlers should not get rewarded for bulldozing an opponent off the mat.
12. From a neutral start, if you take a step back off the whistle, it is a stall call.
Three point reversal, since it's essentially an escape and a TD.
I like folkstyle, I hope they don't screw with the rules top much.
I like folkstyle, I hope they don't screw with the rules top much.
