Where have I said that I know for a fact that Sandusky is innocent? It seems to me that an appropriate venue for making that judgment is a new fair trial.
Sandusky going with the big guns to debunk repressed memory
- Thread starter interrobang
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Where have I said that I know for a fact that Sandusky is innocent? It seems to me that an appropriate venue for making that judgment is a new fair trial.
So where in those WORDS (not actions) do you see evidence that he underwent RMT?
You need to improve your reading skills. Do you understand what repressed memory therapy is?
It wasn't used. If a story changed after therapy Ziegler automatically claimed RMT.
Mark Pendergast already had an article out about V7. He didn't even mention repressed memory until after the face to face meeting. He sent him an email saying he forgot to ask him about "repressed memories".
Where did you get I was accusing you of that?
You keep acting like all you want is a new trial. You always say you're not certain of innocence or guilt.
I submit you believe he's innocent. You never really own it, yet still bang the drum slowly for your pal in prison.
Well, I take great comfort that Soapy professes his innocence. Well all righty then. If our man Jer says so, then that's good enough for me. If you can't trust a guy who never missed a chance to get nekkid with adolescent males in the shower, then who can you trust?
Amazingly you can go right down the road to Rockview and you know what? Everybody in there professes their innocence also. Nobody ever did nothin'.
The wrong guy is ALWAYS convicted. What an amazing coincidence.
So what? Why is it wrong to believe JS is innocent? The point of a new trial is not to set a serial pedophile free on some technicality.
Actually the appropriate venue is the PCRA.
For somebody who's been following this with such great interest, it would be good if you understood the process and/or spoke about it truthfully.
It is a legal fact at this point that Jerry is guilty.
There are two issues currently under debate at the PCRA. (Actually only one. The second won't be considered at all unless the first one goes well for Jerry).
The first is whether the trial was unfair. Almost all trials have some element of unfairness. It is highly possible, you are right, that the judge will have a finding that some element or elements of the trial were unfair.
The second comes into play then. Remember, at this point, Jerry is STILL GUILTY. The question is whether any unfair aspects of the trial could have a high chance of causing reasonable doubt.
These things end all the time with a finding that some aspect(s) were unfair, but that they don't affect the validity of the verdict(s).Also, the 45 counts are separable.
So lets say for example that a couple of unfair aspects are found, AND that they might cast doubt on 20 of the verdicts. Jerry would still be GUILTY of 25 counts. It is quite likely that the OAG might not even pursue a new trial on them. Jerry would at that point be behind bars for life, and legally it would have certified that those 25 verdicts are fair.
PCRAs rarely work and when they do in 2-5% of cases, there are typically only a couple of related verdicts for the same crime action. With 45 verdicts, there's hardly any scenario where this goes well for Jerry.
Now, you'll still claim that the trial was unfair. But there will be yet another layer of certainty on Jerry's fate and guilt.
Steve thinks it's wrong to say he believes Jerry is innocent. That's why he hasn't said it.
JS' innocence is the only plausible explanation I have seen for the actions of everyone involved. And that includes the PA oag.
Wrong. I believe that Sandusky is likely innocent. I won't state that it is a fact or that I am 100% certain because I was not directly involved.
Are you willing to say you are 100% certain that Sandusky is guilty?
I agree that PCRAs rarely work, but I think this case is an exception to the rule. I think the Sandusky case is exactly the reason for which PCRA laws were written.
Professor Wes Oliver of Duquesne Law School has stated that Sandusky's PCRA is one of the strongest PCRAs that he has observed.
If Sandusky is fortunate enough to win a new trial, I can envision a host of likely scenarios which will turn out very well for him.
Yes. And I'm backed up by the fact that he's been proven guilty in a court of law & all standard appeals, up through the PA supreme Court.
The big difference between us is that you say you were immediately convinced of his guild in 11/2011. I was skeptical from the very start and even at points during the trial at certain points I had some hope he would not be found guilty. But he was. And since then, I've accepted that he was found guilty. And since then, you've begun to read media reports (from fringe media, even more biased than the mainstream) and have begun to swing the other way.
So - you've been swung both ways by the media. I haven't been even once yet, either way. You flipflop apparently because of what the media says.
But the fact is that sometimes the jury gets it wrong. Are you 100% certain that the jury didn't get it wrong? I am not. By the way, I wasn't immediately convinced of guilt in November 2011 or even in June 2012. I assumed the OAG was playing on the straight and narrow, and that the jury had probably gotten it right. Obviously, I have much different beliefs today.
My point is that no one even considered the possibility that JS could be innocent. The anal intercourse nonsense in the presentment eliminated that grey area between being surrogate father and grooming. Without that lie, he might have been given the benefit of the doubt until the trial. Then Joe was fired and not only was Jerry's guilt a foregone conclusion, but so was everyone associated with this. The press went with it without even the tiniest curiosity. Nobody, especially anyone outraged by the treatment of Paterno, had the nerve to defend Sandusky.
It may appear to be in poor taste to defend a man convicted of the things Sandusky has been, but it was every man for himself when this thing blew up. Very few people, other than Joe and Spanier, showed any leadership. Amendola was out of his depth. The whole thing was a cluster****.
This should be looked at with cooler heads. I understand why nobody wants another trial, but I think it's just the right thing to do. It seems unfair that this memory recovery crap is not really supported by any physical evidence at all.
Please don't project your ideas on everyone. many of us have looked well past the allegation of anal rape and are still able to determine Jerrys guilt independent of what happened that night in lasch.
This is laughable. 35% of the country probably still thinks JVP himself was accused of CSA. If you asked 100 people on the street in LA if JS raped a child in the shower at PSU, you would get 96 yeses.
The Sandusky media narrative has been so drilled into the national mindset that a 'new, fair trial' is a fantasy. I hope he gets lucky, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Thank the media Mind Shapers and their partners in crime, our political class, for this mess.
Where as you, Steve, and Indy are the pillars of objectivity. I get you guys want it to be a bad dream, but it's not with regards to him.
Why is it any of your business what others may think or believe? I certainly could give a shit about you!
Virtually all the "victims" lied under oath. Which testimony was the truth?The first, the second or perhaps the next time?
I agree except I think we can thank Corbett and his little princes, Fina and Surma for the narrative.
It's getting deeper here. Natives are finally opening up and wearing it like a badge. Took a few years, but the denial was fun to watch for a few years. The victims are the problem. LMAO
And 52 of them would say JVP raped him.
Some of the victims are telling the truth
Some of the victims are clearly liars who embellished their stories and couldn't even get dates and events right until it serves their purpose ($) with help from the POS ambulance chaser Andrew Shubin
Some of the other victims are "known only to God"
Regardless, Jerry is guilty of illegal behavior and is where he belongs, although it is far from clear how far his actual sexual behavior stretched. But too far for sure IMO. Boundary stuff, fondling, touching, rubbing. All of that is too far even if that is where it stopped.
Sorry if that is too nuanced for your simple, black and white little brain. You wear your shallow understanding of all aspects of this saga like a badge. Carry on though. You're doing God's work so maybe you can find out who Victim 2 is, and what happened with the demented janitor.
I agree with the above. Here is something to consider. Virtually all of the victims testified more than once. Most denied abuse under oath....when no money was on the line. Later, they claimed abuse and pocketed millions. So, those who say they couldn't all be liars.....really?
LOL. All you can try and do is hurl insults anymore as you are so GD confused. You lost your sh!t a while back apparently Mix and turned into a POS.
You so desperately want to believe the fools but clearly know better so you keep walking on that fence talking out of both sides of your mouth. You state over and over Jerry is guilty, but are upset when I do it because I don't cater to these idiotic fantasies. Cheer on these guys getting the victims and this BS "hunt for justice". I'm just going to laugh at this BS anymore. It's a joke already. Hurl away as it is all you know anymore. Yeah this is such a mysterious case....LOL!!!
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Thanks for proving my point about nuance. And I notice you hurled a few insults yourself without addressing a single point I made. All of which are internally consistent. Stick to debating people in your "pay grade".
Hugs and kisses. You just keep walking that fence Mix. You are confused and yet so transparent. It's cute.
It sucks Joe took a beating in all of this, but life isn't always fair. You just keep yelling idiot and walking that fence. Toodles.
Pnny, but you have me on ignore!!! I get you thinking Jerry is innocent as you're f--king nuts. I think someone mentioned you in a comments section on PL, go get em!!!
PCRA transcript is now up from March 24th:
http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY TRANSCRIPT FROM MARCH 24 2017.pdf
It seems Gillum got skewered and was very evasive. He denied using repressed memory therapy, but did admit to being in the grand jury room with V1 on two occasions. The defense deemed a victim's advocate being in there as "highly irregular."
From Amendola's testimony, after the charges against JS were "leaked" and Ganim ran her story, the PSP moved in to arrest Jerry. One big problem, they couldn't find him. The nation's worst serial pedophile ever and they lost him? They had to call Amendola to learn JS was in Cleveland visiting family.
The defense also got on the record the dramatic differences in JS's(what V# is he) and V6's GJ testimony to their trial testimony. In reading back the trial transcript, Amendola got both to admit to telling Joe McGettigan their "new" version of what happened before trial. At the PCRA hearing, Amendola testified he was never informed of the "new" allegations and Lindsay deemed this a Brady violation. Petrosky changing the scene of the crime in the janitor incident is another potential Brady violation the defense has raised.
Judge Foradora is considering calling Judge Cleland as a fact witness pertaining to the off the record meeting he attended to discuss waiving the preliminary hearing.
Leiter and Rossman both testified as well.
http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY TRANSCRIPT FROM MARCH 24 2017.pdf
It seems Gillum got skewered and was very evasive. He denied using repressed memory therapy, but did admit to being in the grand jury room with V1 on two occasions. The defense deemed a victim's advocate being in there as "highly irregular."
From Amendola's testimony, after the charges against JS were "leaked" and Ganim ran her story, the PSP moved in to arrest Jerry. One big problem, they couldn't find him. The nation's worst serial pedophile ever and they lost him? They had to call Amendola to learn JS was in Cleveland visiting family.
The defense also got on the record the dramatic differences in JS's(what V# is he) and V6's GJ testimony to their trial testimony. In reading back the trial transcript, Amendola got both to admit to telling Joe McGettigan their "new" version of what happened before trial. At the PCRA hearing, Amendola testified he was never informed of the "new" allegations and Lindsay deemed this a Brady violation. Petrosky changing the scene of the crime in the janitor incident is another potential Brady violation the defense has raised.
Judge Foradora is considering calling Judge Cleland as a fact witness pertaining to the off the record meeting he attended to discuss waiving the preliminary hearing.
Leiter and Rossman both testified as well.
There is a simple memory test that shows that lost memories can be recalled. All it takes is a tiny bit of effort and some intellectual honesty.
Think of a TV show that you watched A LOT when you were 10-14. It doesn't matter much if you've you watched it since, but it's better if you haven't.
Now think of a number between 1-100 & have someone else look up the the title of what that episode number is. Take a notepad and write down every single detail you can think of about the episode. Lines of dialogue, sequence of events, major plot points, funny jokes, what people were wearing ....
Now, have your friend read you the short description for the episode as it appears on IMDB/wikipedia/etc. Take another notepad and write down more details. Feel free to correct yourself if you remembered something wrong.
Now, go to youtube/netflix/wherever & watch the first 5 minutes of the episode, then stop. Take another notepad and write down more details. Feel free to correct yourself if you remembered something wrong.
Watch the next 10 minutes. Now you have some good background to really refresh your memory. Did you notice that you can predict lines of dialogue almost exactly? Did you notice you can tell what scenes are coming up & in what order and in great detail? Can you now almost write down the script for the rest of the episode? I bet you can.
But you'll find that no matter how hard you tried your earlier attempts fell somewhat short. You'd have sworn you didn't remember anything else, and you've proven that what you did remember wasn't really that accurate.
But the more your mind is refreshed -- again, not with false memories but with actual details, the more you actually remember.
There's still 15 minutes of show left. Nobody planted any false memories of those 15 minutes in your mind. Write it down with intellectual honesty & you will see that those memories are unlocked like a doorway was opened.
It is quite possible to recall things accurately in great detail even if those memories were "lost." Not repressed. Just not at the top of the mind.
For a quicker check, use song lyrics as the test. Same idea. Write down what you can remember (from a song you've heard many many times years ago, but it isn't in your playlist for years). Suddenly you hear the music and the lyrics come back.
Think of a TV show that you watched A LOT when you were 10-14. It doesn't matter much if you've you watched it since, but it's better if you haven't.
Now think of a number between 1-100 & have someone else look up the the title of what that episode number is. Take a notepad and write down every single detail you can think of about the episode. Lines of dialogue, sequence of events, major plot points, funny jokes, what people were wearing ....
Now, have your friend read you the short description for the episode as it appears on IMDB/wikipedia/etc. Take another notepad and write down more details. Feel free to correct yourself if you remembered something wrong.
Now, go to youtube/netflix/wherever & watch the first 5 minutes of the episode, then stop. Take another notepad and write down more details. Feel free to correct yourself if you remembered something wrong.
Watch the next 10 minutes. Now you have some good background to really refresh your memory. Did you notice that you can predict lines of dialogue almost exactly? Did you notice you can tell what scenes are coming up & in what order and in great detail? Can you now almost write down the script for the rest of the episode? I bet you can.
But you'll find that no matter how hard you tried your earlier attempts fell somewhat short. You'd have sworn you didn't remember anything else, and you've proven that what you did remember wasn't really that accurate.
But the more your mind is refreshed -- again, not with false memories but with actual details, the more you actually remember.
There's still 15 minutes of show left. Nobody planted any false memories of those 15 minutes in your mind. Write it down with intellectual honesty & you will see that those memories are unlocked like a doorway was opened.
It is quite possible to recall things accurately in great detail even if those memories were "lost." Not repressed. Just not at the top of the mind.
For a quicker check, use song lyrics as the test. Same idea. Write down what you can remember (from a song you've heard many many times years ago, but it isn't in your playlist for years). Suddenly you hear the music and the lyrics come back.
Great analogy
he literally described the opposite of how memory works
