Should we be worried about Cenzo?

[GogglesPaizano]

Hell no!!!

On balance a very solid match he just got caught. Similar to some of his very early matches last year. As well as shades of Bo vs MM in the finals, gut wrenching when it happens and we learn move on and the superior wrestler rises to the top. You cant throw everybody all the time especially a very strong bull. His positioning wasn't perfect and it appears the bull was simply able to over power and take advantage. My hat's off to Marinelli, he is super solid on defense and to be honest I think he will be more than a handful for Imar. I think VJ has much more offense, is far more athletic, and although quite strong, Marinelli is very strong, probably the strongest raw power in this weight class. Most had him as a maybe AA at the start of the season and he is clearly top 3 now with few able to deal with his strength and defense. His offense is suspect, so if you pick your shots well, ride and control I'll bet VJ wins by at least 4 consistently in.the future. Bummed...a little, worried...not.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

You shouldn't be worried about Cenzo. Cenzo is a stud. You should be worried about the Bull. You know what happens when you mess with the Bull.

 

[El-Jefe]

You eat a lot of steak.

 

[diggerpup]

You shouldn't be worried about Cenzo. Cenzo is a stud. You should be worried about the Bull. You know what happens when you mess with the Bull.

You’re EXHIBIT A on the effects of eating lead paint.

 

[crockster]

Cenzo defintley the better wrestler. He could have wrestled conservatively and won. He just got caught, not unlike he did early in freshman year to Srandford kid or Bonafaint MM in nCAas finals. He won’t make the mistake again and beat Marinelli at Big 10s and NCAAs.

 

[psuflyguy]

Nope, not worried. I think Bo had to learn that there is a time to throw, and a time to win with superior technique. Joseph’s technique was superior tonight until he got sloppy on a throw attempt he didn’t need. He’ll learn from it. I take nothing away from Marinelli. His defense is good, perhaps great. He defended a throw attempt masterfully and won the only way he’ll ever win over Joseph, by making the most of a mistake.

 

[purescurve]

Cenzo knows he can win at will and is just setting Alex up for when he might need it to win later when it matters. We wouldn't want Alex to avoid the upper body stuff then. Just a little bait for the trap.

 

[BDB57]

Agree with similarity of Cenzo's loss to Subjeck and Bo's losses to Martin and and Nate Jackson. I'm sure Cenzo knows he may have taken a questionable risk but he will have a heart to heart with Bo on the importance of accepting what is there rather than putting your self at risk especially that late in the match.

Not particularly concerned with the loss but it make's getting the top seed at the Bigs and the NCAAs a long shot.

 

[James Toney]

Marinelli needed two takedowns to win and does not win that match if Joseph plays it safe. How many wrestlers would have went for that while winning? Crazy is that match does not really bother me. I know VJ made a mistake, but that’s what is awesome about PSU wrestlers is that go after it!! Now time to give Marinelli some credit. He is a stud who never gave up and made him pay for his mistake. Congrats on a big win.

 

[findtheStrength]

If VJ beats Imar and the bull at BIGs do you think its enough for the 1 seed at NCAAs? They would all have 1 loss. Or would an undefeated Mcfadden take it?

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

Come on now... I'm a huge VJ fan but Marinelli didnt win because VJ made a mistake. He won because he was better this match and for anyone to suggest they have no worries about a rematch, youre full of it or blind. Marinelli was setting up that move for 4-5 secs before he hit it. VJ wasnt able to stop it.


If they meet again at Bigs of NCAAs, Id call VJ the favorite but Marinelli is definitely a serious contender VJ "should" be very concerned about

 

[Gray52]

These are the things that can, and will, happen when a coach allows his wrestler to... umm... wrestle wide open for 7-min. Marenelli’s win was an example of a coach teaching his wrestlers to... umm... win with defense. Cenzo controlled the whole match. Cenzo was the aggressor. Cenzo created all of the offense. Cenzo pretty much handed Marenelli his points. I can only hope that Brands came away satisfied with that win. It was classic Brands strategy. It’s why Iowa is an aging dinosaur.
While disappointed in the loss, I’m not at all disappointed with how Cenzo wrestled. Marenelli is very good. Cenzo is a level above.

 

[Hotshoe]

Come on now... I'm a huge VJ fan but Marinelli didnt win because VJ made a mistake. He won because he was better this match and for anyone to suggest they have no worries about a rematch, youre full of it or blind. Marinelli was setting up that move for 4-5 secs before he hit it. VJ wasnt able to stop it.


If they meet again at Bigs of NCAAs, Id call VJ the favorite but Marinelli is definitely a serious contender VJ "should" be very concerned about

Ahhhh no, and that's not what happened. Cenzo didn't need to do anything and would have won. Cenzo went for the trip himself and missed the leg. He didn't even need to do that. He was in control the entire match. How many takedowns did Marinelli have? Yeah, none until then. Cenzo was up 5-2. Even Cael doesn't agree with your statement, and said Cenzo got too relaxed.

 

[dunkej01]

So glad to read all the folks here who get it. that cenzo match is why we are 6 out of the last 7 and others are sniffing the podium.

 

[mcruny42]

Marinelli was in no way taking VJ down 2 times in the 3rd if VJ just holds his ground and doesn't stay aggressive. Not overly concerned. Marinelli did what he needed to do, tip my cap to him. I'll take VJ moving forward.

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

Marenelli is very good. Cenzo is a level above.

Is losing 9-6 a level above? Also keep in mind Cael pushes his wrestlers to score big, be aggressive and gets tons of credit for doing so. Now that it may have backfired against Marinelli, its if VJ didnt go for it, he'd have won. Well, cant have it both ways. VJ wrestled his match and lost. He may never lose another match again, but this one he did. No level above here. No basis for it

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

How many takedowns did Marinelli have? Yeah, none until then.

Yea, Marinelli didnt have any take downs, until he took VJ down! I guess that doesnt count.

How many back points did VJ have? How many back points did Marinelli have? Can play this game all day long.

 

[pish69]

Yea, Marinelli didnt have any take downs, until he took VJ down! How many back points did VJ have? How many back points did Marinelli have? Can play this game all day long.

Are you a PSU fan? If so, your take is a shocking one. Everyone that has watched Cenzo wrestle including last nights match knows his talent. No one can take him down except for IMAR.

Every PSU fan I know appreciates the go for broke style that Cenzo has. It bit him last night like it did against Subject last year. Was there any doubt Cenzo would avenge that lost at NCAAs? Same thing here. Simple as that.

Now if your an Iowa fan, I get it, your guy had a big upset and you should be proud of the effort. But objectively if you really understand what your watching, to think Bull is favorite going into next match against Cenzo your crazy.

 

[JBott]

Come on now... I'm a huge VJ fan but Marinelli didnt win because VJ made a mistake. He won because he was better this match and for anyone to suggest they have no worries about a rematch, youre full of it or blind. Marinelli was setting up that move for 4-5 secs before he hit it. VJ wasnt able to stop it.


If they meet again at Bigs of NCAAs, Id call VJ the favorite but Marinelli is definitely a serious contender VJ "should" be very concerned about

Marinelli was not setting that up for 4-5 seconds! It was VJ that initiated the throw and AM was able to sag his hips back and down and keep his body lock! It was a nice counter and he deserves credit for the win! He won the match but he did not out wrestle VJ. Vincenzo was up 5-2, had scored 2 TD to 0 and never looked in danger until that throw attempt went bad!

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

But objectively if you really understand what your watching, to think Bull is favorite going into next match against Cenzo your crazy.

I think I made it clear in an earlier post that VJ would be favored next match. In fact, heres the post I made

"If they meet again at Bigs of NCAAs, Id call VJ the favorite but Marinelli is definitely a serious contender VJ "should" be very concerned about"

However, that doesnt excuse the casual dismissal Marinelli seems to be getting here. IF everyone appreciates VJs go for broke style (I love watching him wrestle) then there shouldnt be sour grapes when it backfires to an undefeated wrestler. Should they meet again, should VJ wrestle more tentative?

 

[pish69]

I think I made it clear in an earlier post that VJ would be favored next match. In fact, heres the post I made

"If they meet again at Bigs of NCAAs, Id call VJ the favorite but Marinelli is definitely a serious contender VJ "should" be very concerned about"

However, that doesnt excuse the casual dismissal Marinelli seems to be getting here. IF everyone appreciates VJs go for broke style (I love watching him wrestle) then there shouldnt be sour grapes when it backfires to an undefeated wrestler. Should they meet again, should VJ wrestle more tentative?

Got it. I probably should read whole thread before responding.

Who has sour grapes though?

VJ should wrestle his same aggressive style next time, but if he up 5-2 with a minute left maybe he doesn’t “force” it.

It’s a huge win for the Bull. A win like this will boost his confidence no doubt.

 

[palmettolion]

However, that doesnt excuse the casual dismissal Marinelli seems to be getting here. IF everyone appreciates VJs go for broke style (I love watching him wrestle) then there shouldnt be sour grapes when it backfires to an undefeated wrestler. Should they meet again, should VJ wrestle more tentative?

It sure doesn't sound like sour grapes to me. Sounds more like: damn, VJ got caught after dominating a guy the whole match. A guy whose only offense was clubbing his opponents head. A guy with good hips and tie defense. Oh well, VJ will adjust and it probably won't happen again.

To answer your second question, yes. After dominating for most of the match and while ahead, VJ should go conservative with a lead against a guy with no offense and good defense/counter ties in neutral position.

Guess you can have it both ways?

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

If you think Bull's win was a fluke and the VJ will automatically beat him next time you are out of your mind. That wasn't a fluke. Cenzo should certainly know this dude can beat him. Y'all assume only PSU makes adjustments and Iowa is coached by me and matter.

WAY too much "our guy is basically Jesus" on this thread. Wow.

Bull is as good as VJ, hate to say it, but this weight class is a 3 man race now, not the two everyone thought it was. (except PSU fans, who seem to think Joseph is the only viable contender)

Honestly a little disappointed. Homerism is one thing, but its like some of y'all didn't even watch the match.

 

[Lyons212]

It sure doesn't sound like sour grapes to me. Sounds more like: damn, VJ got caught after dominating a guy the whole match. A guy whose only offense was clubbing his opponents head. A guy with good hips and tie defense. Oh well, VJ will adjust and it probably won't happen again.

To answer your second question, yes. After dominating for most of the match and while ahead, VJ should go conservative with a lead against a guy with no offense and good defense/counter ties in neutral position.

Guess you can have it both ways?

Especially when bonus points were not needed to win the dual. There are times when you make sure you get the W. Nickal has learned that lesson against Martin.

 

[fortheglory94]

I really don't get the couple of people in this thread that are overstating Marinelli's performance in this match. They could have wrestled for an hour last night and Marinelli never would have taken Cenzo down with a shot. Nickal-like lesson learned, no need to go big and get risky up 2 TDs with a minute left. Looking forward to a smart win in the B1G Semis in three weeks. What this match does is make the road to the finals more difficult now, but not the worst thing if it's a teachable moment.

 

[Biffkin]

I always preached to my wrestlers that the most import thing in the conference and state tournament is to get your hand raised and move on. Look for bonus point where the opportunity presents itself. This wasn't the BIGs or the NCAA for VJ. The dual was ours with 174, 184, 197 coming up. VJ went for it and paid the price for sloppy execution. Next time it's 5-2 VJ and the Iowa crowd is yelling for stalling at end of the match.

 

[Big Blue12]

If VJ beats Imar and the bull at BIGs do you think its enough for the 1 seed at NCAAs? They would all have 1 loss. Or would an undefeated Mcfadden take it?

Cenzo will be #1 Seed if this happens

 

[PSUcup1]

If you think Bull's win was a fluke and the VJ will automatically beat him next time you are out of your mind. That wasn't a fluke. Cenzo should certainly know this dude can beat him. Y'all assume only PSU makes adjustments and Iowa is coached by me and matter.

WAY too much "our guy is basically Jesus" on this thread. Wow.

Bull is as good as VJ, hate to say it, but this weight class is a 3 man race now, not the two everyone thought it was. (except PSU fans, who seem to think Joseph is the only viable contender)

Honestly a little disappointed. Homerism is one thing, but its like some of y'all didn't even watch the match.

Let’s wager on the rematch. I’ll give you 5 to 1 odds .....

 

[palmettolion]

If you think Bull's win was a fluke and the VJ will automatically beat him next time you are out of your mind. That wasn't a fluke. Cenzo should certainly know this dude can beat him. Y'all assume only PSU makes adjustments and Iowa is coached by me and matter.

WAY too much "our guy is basically Jesus" on this thread. Wow.

Bull is as good as VJ, hate to say it, but this weight class is a 3 man race now, not the two everyone thought it was. (except PSU fans, who seem to think Joseph is the only viable contender)

Honestly a little disappointed. Homerism is one thing, but its like some of y'all didn't even watch the match.

I don't think most here are saying it was a fluke. I'm saying one guy was winning and in control for the majority of the match, one guy was forcing offense. The other guy, who is a pretty damn good wrestler, had no offense. None. Only defensive counters and head slaps and good hips. If the guy that controlled the match doesn't go aggresive in the last minute or so he wins a low scoring yet dominate match.

S**t happens, Marinelli took advantage of it with a great counter. He's going to be great if he keeps progressing.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

I don't think most here are saying it was a fluke. I'm saying one guy was winning and in control for the majority of the match, one guy was forcing offense. The other guy, who is a pretty damn good wrestler, had no offense. None. Only defensive counters and head slaps and good hips. If the guy that controlled the match doesn't go aggresive in the last minute or so he wins a low scoring yet dominate match.

S**t happens, Marinelli took advantage of it with a great counter. He's going to be great if he keeps progressing.

I am going to walk the dog, I'll rewatch the match on DVR. I don't remember at any point thinking Marinelli wasn't offensive, etc. I'll check again after the walk.

 

[pish69]

If you think Bull's win was a fluke and the VJ will automatically beat him next time you are out of your mind. That wasn't a fluke. Cenzo should certainly know this dude can beat him. Y'all assume only PSU makes adjustments and Iowa is coached by me and matter.

WAY too much "our guy is basically Jesus" on this thread. Wow.

Bull is as good as VJ, hate to say it, but this weight class is a 3 man race now, not the two everyone thought it was. (except PSU fans, who seem to think Joseph is the only viable contender)

Honestly a little disappointed. Homerism is one thing, but its like some of y'all didn't even watch the match.

Did you watch the match or just check the box score?

You do realize to be able to beat someone consistently you need to take the guys down.

Did Bull come close in first 6 minutes? No. Was Cenzo able to get to his offense? Yes

Cenzo went for a throw up 5-2 with minute left.

Amazing how little wrestling knowledge manages to find itself at our boards when any of our guys lose

Did you think Keaton Subject was on Cenzos level last year?

 

[LumbeeIndian]

I am going to walk the dog, I'll rewatch the match on DVR. I don't remember at any point thinking Marinelli wasn't offensive, etc. I'll check again after the walk.

It started at the opening whistle when Cenzo went upstairs and was carrying/ dragging Marinelli around by his arms. You take it from there...

 

[clucas]

Don't even watch the match...good grief, Cenzo clearly controlled that match right up until the bearhug on the failed inside trip attempt. When Marinelli wins a title and defeats Imar in the process, then you can squawk about him being as good as VJ. He won the match last night, no one can deny that or take it away from him. It is the same typical Iowa style of wrestling (outside of the two PA boys you have on your roster)...wrestle defensive and try and wait for your opponent to make a mistake and capitalize. It is the same style of wrestling that also will continue to place your team 4th at NCAA's.

 

[jrd23psu]

We should be as worried as we are with Bo when he wrestles Martin. Cenzo controlled the match. Marinelli, while good wasn’t even close to scoring on Cenzo. If Cenzo doesn’t go big in the third he wins easily.

That’s not what happened, though. He went big and Marinelli capitalized. It happened to Bo against Martin twice as well. When Bo sticks to out wrestling Martin it’s not close. If Cenzo sticks to just out wrestling Marinelli then he will win easily

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Come on now... I'm a huge VJ fan but Marinelli didnt win because VJ made a mistake. He won because he was better this match and for anyone to suggest they have no worries about a rematch, youre full of it or blind. Marinelli was setting up that move for 4-5 secs before he hit it. VJ wasnt able to stop it.

Sorry, but that last sentence just isn't accurate. Joseph initiated the throw. Marinelli defended it well and got the 6-point move as a result.

Did Marinelli bait Joseph into trying the throw? Don't know, perhaps. But it was certainly an unnecessary risk for Joseph to try a big move that he didn't need. That said, I like that Joseph had the stones to try it, and it's well known that the PSU coaches encourages this. Credit to Marinelli for defending the move and coming out on top, but let's not revise history.

 

[psualt]

There is a point where good defense only does so much for you. The only difference between the Sorensen and Marinelli matches last night was one PSU wrestler forced a position that wasn’t there and paid the price. Eventually AM will have to find some offense against VJ. Hopefully the Hawks believe that gameplan was working for them.

 

[Cyclingmik]

I know one thing. If it wasn’t for the 2PA wrestlers and PSU. Many people overpaid for the match last night.

 

[Gray52]

If you think Bull's win was a fluke and the VJ will automatically beat him next time you are out of your mind. That wasn't a fluke. Cenzo should certainly know this dude can beat him. Y'all assume only PSU makes adjustments and Iowa is coached by me and matter.

WAY too much "our guy is basically Jesus" on this thread. Wow.

Bull is as good as VJ, hate to say it, but this weight class is a 3 man race now, not the two everyone thought it was. (except PSU fans, who seem to think Joseph is the only viable contender)

Honestly a little disappointed. Homerism is one thing, but its like some of y'all didn't even watch the match.

Well based on the only results we have, AM did win on a fluke... so...

Seems like the only adjustments Brands makes is to shoot less, block the head more.

And prove to me Cenzo isnt basically Jesus.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

It started at the opening whistle when Cenzo went upstairs and was carrying/ dragging Marinelli around by his arms. You take it from there...

That was some serious strength.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Just rewatched... .

First period: Marinelli, clear aggressor. He took 2 full shots, 2 half shots to VJs 1 shot and one 1/2 shot. Yes VJ scored on his full shot, but never got Marinelli down to the mat (it was a 3 points of contact takedown, not a guy is on his belly takedown) VJ wasn't interested in collar ties, didn't aggressively ride. Simply tried to use overhooks to throw a guy nicknamed "bull". Box score not indicative of period's action.

Second period:
VJ starts down, out in 30 seconds. Marinelli made him earn the escape with multiple mat returns. 2 Shots for AM, reatatck by joseph with the trip. hits it. Escape AM. Heavy hands through end of period.

THird:

AM down, out in 15 seconds. VJ goes back to over hooks, AM bear hugs, wins the hips battle.. gets trip and back points. Escape. Now 9-6. 3 late Shots by VJ while AM runs out last minute.

Yeah, I wasn't wrong. I rewatched that match and AM was clearly WAY more aggressive up until the last minute. I didn't see VJ try to set up an offense except for trips, even on offense. His take down didn't come from a set up, it was a shot from space.