SIAP: Our defense...

[Madsol]

Despite all of the concerns about the defense, they've essentially played one bad quarter out of 12. Outside of the 4th quarter meltdown against App St, they've given up 19 points in 3 games. Even if the level of opponent isn't real strong, we haven't seen them yield points or even yardage even when the game was way out of reach. Heck, even against App St they had only given up 3 points and a little over a 100 yards in the first 3 quarters. I think that's a testament to the young talent that's getting a chance to play later in games. Still lots of work to do on defense but the future is very bright. And I'm not convinced that we'll have to wait even til next year to see that bright future.

 

[Obliviax]

Despite all of the concerns about the defense, they've essentially played one bad quarter out of 12. Outside of the 4th quarter meltdown against App St, they've given up 19 points in 3 games. Even if the level of opponent isn't real strong, we haven't seen them yield points or even yardage even when the game was way out of reach. Heck, even against App St they had only given up 3 points and a little over a 100 yards in the first 3 quarters. I think that's a testament to the young talent that's getting a chance to play later in games. Still lots of work to do on defense but the future is very bright. And I'm not convinced that we'll have to wait even til next year to see that bright future.

Pitt killed us on the ground the entire first half. Their punter resulted in a swing of several points to holding for PAT's, FG's and punts. I was surprised at the halftime interview, CJF seemed to know exactly what the problem was and that it would be fixed ASAP....and it was.

I don't feel Ill will be much competition...and I am a little concerned that are first real competition, with NFL ready players, will be tOSU; the one team we really need to beat this year if we want to make the B1G playoff game. But it is what it is. Seems to me that the D is deeper than expected and you'll see the coaches going deeper with a lot of rotation. Trace is getting more and more familiar with his new toys, understanding who to go to when flushed. TE looked great last week. But again, we've played nobody so need to trust the process.

 

[kijana]

Pitt killed us on the ground the entire first half. Their punter resulted in a swing of several points to holding for PAT's, FG's and punts. I was surprised at the halftime interview, CJF seemed to know exactly what the problem was and that it would be fixed ASAP....and it was.

.

Did Pitt really kill PSU on the ground the entire first half? Seems like half of Pitt's rushing yards in the first half came on 2 plays.

 

[MJG-90]

Pitt had over 200 yards rushing against us in the first half. A large chunk of that was two plays -- the jet sweep on their TD drive and the 60+ yard run from their goal line. Even with that, the defense only gave up one touchdown and a missed field goal -- so possibly 10 points. The 4th down stop was following a lost fumble at around our own 30, so I won't call out the D on that drive. But they did give up a few nice runs before tightening up in the red zone. Whatever the strategy, it worked out fine. Pitt didn't get a single first down in the third quarter.

 

[Madsol]

Pitt killed us on the ground the entire first half. Their punter resulted in a swing of several points to holding for PAT's, FG's and punts. I was surprised at the halftime interview, CJF seemed to know exactly what the problem was and that it would be fixed ASAP....and it was.

I don't feel Ill will be much competition...and I am a little concerned that are first real competition, with NFL ready players, will be tOSU; the one team we really need to beat this year if we want to make the B1G playoff game. But it is what it is. Seems to me that the D is deeper than expected and you'll see the coaches going deeper with a lot of rotation. Trace is getting more and more familiar with his new toys, understanding who to go to when flushed. TE looked great last week. But again, we've played nobody so need to trust the process.

But it's all about points. Ok, so the Pitt holder dropped the ball on the extra point. That's 1 point. And who knows if his bobble of the FG snap caused that miss but even if it did, that's 4 points. His drop of the punt led to points for us but didn't cost Pitt any points. And how often do you see teams in blowouts giving up points late. OSU gave up 30+ to a dreadful Oregon State team. Yet we haven't seen that the last 2 games. I think that's an unexpected positive.

 

[Obliviax]

Did Pitt really kill PSU on the ground the entire first half? Seems like half of Pitt's rushing yards in the first half came on 2 plays.

can't find halftime stats but the drive charts indicate PSU had 203 total yards gross, and Pitt 225. This is after a botched PAT, botched FG, missed TD on 4th and 3 and botched punt.

 

[Lavar5150]

One more week to get tighter in responsibilities. #30 has made a huge impact but I think the coaches got a good read on what the snap counts should be based on the first game and have adjusted accordingly. Parsons has improved each week and is going to be critical to containing OSU athletes. Excited to see Oweh again this week. I think he flipped the switch on the green light.

 

[Madsol]

can't find halftime stats but the drive charts indicate PSU had 203 total yards gross, and Pitt 225. This is after a botched PAT, botched FG, missed TD on 4th and 3 and botched punt.

The 4th and 3 and the botched punt wouldn't have resulted in any more yards for Pitt. I'm not sure the point you're trying to make by including those in this discussion. If anything the botched punt for Pitt cost us yards because we didn't have as far to go to score.

 

[Obliviax]

But it's all about points. Ok, so the Pitt holder dropped the ball on the extra point. That's 1 point. And who knows if his bobble of the FG snap caused that miss but even if it did, that's 4 points. His drop of the punt led to points for us but didn't cost Pitt any points. And how often do you see teams in blowouts giving up points late. OSU gave up 30+ to a dreadful Oregon State team. Yet we haven't seen that the last 2 games. I think that's an unexpected positive.

I understand what you are saying, but Pitt gave us 7 and left 4 in the first half. The Punter also had a 27 yard punt and Pitt had a Safety. Point being, especially when undermanned, you have to fuel the energy. Few teams would withstand a botched PAT, FG, missed 4th and goal, 27 yard punt, Safety, punt return for a TD and 116 yards in penalties. I felt Pitt outplayed PSU for all but two minutes in the first half then completely imploded in the third quarter. The forth quarter was us against a totally demoralized Pit team. If Pitt played a decent game, they may have sustained their energy and made it a game. I am not comfortable with THAT PSU team against tOSU, MSU, UM or Wiscy. Having said that, we greatly improved against Kent. We looked crisp and put together against a far inferior team. If we can combine our physicality with execution, we'll be just fine.

 

[Obliviax]

The 4th and 3 and the botched punt wouldn't have resulted in any more yards for Pitt. I'm not sure the point you're trying to make by including those in this discussion. If anything the botched punt for Pitt cost us yards because we didn't have as far to go to score.

OK...you aren't considering the deflating nature of those events. These are college kids who were physically inferior but gutting through it. When those things happen, you lose your "guts" and are just simply physically over matched.

 

[MJG-90]

Pitt gave us 7 and left 4

We left 3 with our missed FG. And almost gave them 7 with the fumble on our side of the field.

We took advantage of what Pitt gave us and didn't let Pitt take advantage of what we gave them.

 

[Madsol]

OK...you aren't considering the deflating nature of those events. These are college kids who were physically inferior but gutting through it. When those things happen, you lose your "guts" and are just simply physically over matched.

I'm not dismissing the impact of those miscues for Pitt on the lopsided outcome. But we differ on how big of an impact they had.

 

[Obliviax]

We left 3 with our missed FG. And almost gave them 7 with the fumble on our side of the field.

We took advantage of what Pitt gave us and didn't let Pitt take advantage of what we gave them.

That isn't the point.

The point is that we cannot expect other teams to screw up and implode. We haven't played an elite team this year. We showed improvement against Kent. We need to get better if we have any hope of beating tOSU in two weeks.

 

[MJG-90]

The point is that we cannot expect other teams to screw up and implode. We haven't played an elite team this year. We showed improvement against Kent. We need to get better if we have any hope of beating tOSU in two weeks.

I agree with you. See my posts in the one Illinois thread.

But to suggest Pitt imploded isn't entirely true. Both teams made errors on a bad weather / field night. It was a close game at halftime. We made adjustments, they didn't.

However you want to view it, I see it as we have been improving each game. We still have to clean up the dropped balls and the untimely penalties. Otherwise, we look like we can play with anyone (if we clean that stuff up).

Of course, as I said in that other thread, I worry about a team like Illinois (road game, strange start time) if we continue to make those unforced errors.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Pitt had over 200 yards rushing against us in the first half. A large chunk of that was two plays -- the jet sweep on their TD drive and the 60+ yard run from their goal line. Even with that, the defense only gave up one touchdown and a missed field goal -- so possibly 10 points. The 4th down stop was following a lost fumble at around our own 30, so I won't call out the D on that drive. But they did give up a few nice runs before tightening up in the red zone. Whatever the strategy, it worked out fine. Pitt didn't get a single first down in the third quarter.

If Pitt can pull off huge plays against our D, so can tOSU. Our D is getting better and let's hope that continues as it did in 2016. They'll be tested often and often. And often.

 

[CJF_Said_The_Great_Joe_Paterno]

Pitt killed us on the ground the entire first half. Their punter resulted in a swing of several points to holding for PAT's, FG's and punts. I was surprised at the halftime interview, CJF seemed to know exactly what the problem was and that it would be fixed ASAP....and it was.

I don't feel Ill will be much competition...and I am a little concerned that are first real competition, with NFL ready players, will be tOSU; the one team we really need to beat this year if we want to make the B1G playoff game. But it is what it is. Seems to me that the D is deeper than expected and you'll see the coaches going deeper with a lot of rotation. Trace is getting more and more familiar with his new toys, understanding who to go to when flushed. TE looked great last week. But again, we've played nobody so need to trust the process.

Complete and utter bullshit - ASWP was not consistently killing us on the ground even in 1H...the vast majority of the yardage came from the 2 long runs from scrimmage and several long scrambles on 3rd-&-long by Pickett. The fact that ASWP was only able to sustain one offensive possession and score points off it is testament to this fact (ASWP scored ZERO POINTS after their 2nd possession of the game). Ollison ran for 119 yards on 21 carries in the game - 68 of it on one carry (the 1st play of ASWP's 4th possession) -- the possession yielded no points as it stalled out after this run. The FACT is that Ollison only averaged 2.5 ypc in his 20 rushes excluding the 68 yard run - his other 20 rushes netted a grand total of 50 yards (IOW incontrovertible evidence that you are full of shit in your claim).

 

[ClarkstonMark]

One more week to get tighter in responsibilities. #30 has made a huge impact but I think the coaches got a good read on what the snap counts should be based on the first game and have adjusted accordingly. Parsons has improved each week and is going to be critical to containing OSU athletes. Excited to see Oweh again this week. I think he flipped the switch on the green light.

I'm not sure Oweh will even make the trip to Illinois. I'd be surprised actually, but he did look good.

 

[Obliviax]

Complete and utter bullshit - ASWP was not consistently killing us on the ground even in 1H...the vast majority of the yardage came from the 2 long runs from scrimmage and several long scrambles on 3rd-&-long by Pickett. The fact that ASWP was only able to sustain one offensive possession and score points off it is testament to this fact (ASWP scored ZERO POINTS after their 2nd possession of the game). Ollison ran for 119 yards on 21 carries in the game - 68 of it on one carry (the 1st play of ASWP's 4th possession) -- the possession yielded no points as it stalled out after this run. The FACT is that Ollison only averaged 2.5 ypc in his 20 rushes excluding the 68 yard run - his other 20 rushes netted a grand total of 50 yards (IOW incontrovertible evidence that you are full of shit in your claim).

LOL. Runs are runs. no exceptions. If you start making excuses for this that and the other, you won't get very far. Pitt was running out us, accept it. fact is, Pitt's punter was accountable for an 11 point swing in the first half (missed PAT, Missed FG and a dropped punt giving us a short field with under two minutes left in the half). In addition, Pitt was on our three yard line and came away with zero points. These are facts. I am just stating, if things had gone just a slight bit differently, PSU could have easily been training buy more than a TD at the half against a really lower quality team.

 

[doctornick]

Did Pitt really kill PSU on the ground the entire first half? Seems like half of Pitt's rushing yards in the first half came on 2 plays.

This. Pitt could not consistently run on us even in the first half. They got a few decent rushes, but a lot of the time we stuffed them behind/around the line of scrimmage. They were basically lucky to get as many yards as they did, especially since a bunch of them were on broken plays where we easily could have sacked them for a loss.

With their passing game being non-existence, it was pretty evident to me that Pitt wasn't going to be able to move the ball consistently during the game -- you cannot sustain drives just by rushing unless you can consistently get 3-4 yards every time. They were lucky to even have the scoring chances that they ended up with.

Now, a team with a more balanced attack could certainly be a problem going forward. But the Pitt game (and basically all the games except the 4th quarter of ASU, as the OP mentioned) was very promising in terms of how our defense played. Givens being around is pretty significant compared to game 1.

 

[ColinPSU]

This defense is a lot of fun to watch. Even Q4 of App State, most of those points I wouldn't put squarely on their shoulders.

Defensive staff does a great job drawing up our game plans and normally has a wrinkle or two they bring out.

 

[Raffycorn]

Even with the disastrous 4th quarter against App State and the couple big rushing plays Pitt had, we’re still the #17 defense in the opponent-adjusted S&P+. This has already shown to be a very good defense, and it has all the indications that continued improvement and consistency are in its future.

 

[BBrown]

I agree with you. See my posts in the one Illinois thread.

But to suggest Pitt imploded isn't entirely true. Both teams made errors on a bad weather / field night. It was a close game at halftime. We made adjustments, they didn't.

However you want to view it, I see it as we have been improving each game. We still have to clean up the dropped balls and the untimely penalties. Otherwise, we look like we can play with anyone (if we clean that stuff up).

Of course, as I said in that other thread, I worry about a team like Illinois (road game, strange start time) if we continue to make those unforced errors.

I absolutely hate the "what if game" and what really annoys me is its only done for the other team. Fine if they get their "What if's" its only fair that we do as well. and we had 2 huge plays called back. One a 60+ run because of a phantom block in the back.

 

[Obliviax]

Even with the disastrous 4th quarter against App State and the couple big rushing plays Pitt had, we’re still the #17 defense in the opponent-adjusted S&P+. This has already shown to be a very good defense, and it has all the indications that continued improvement and consistency are in its future.

Defense has been "OK" IMHO but have been improving greatly. And, take note, Pitt beat a pretty good GaTech team Saturday. Maybe it is because their holder was back from the injury that caused him to miss our game

 

[CJF_Said_The_Great_Joe_Paterno]

LOL. Runs are runs. no exceptions. If you start making excuses for this that and the other, you won't get very far. Pitt was running out us, accept it. fact is, Pitt's punter was accountable for an 11 point swing in the first half (missed PAT, Missed FG and a dropped punt giving us a short field with under two minutes left in the half). In addition, Pitt was on our three yard line and came away with zero points. These are facts. I am just stating, if things had gone just a slight bit differently, PSU could have easily been training buy more than a TD at the half against a really lower quality team.

No dipshit, the fact is that you're wrong! Ollison averaged 2.5 ypc on his 20 rushes excluding his 68 yard carry. The reason that ASWP couldn't score on any of their 14 possessions except the 2nd is precisely because they could not consistently move the ball and sustain drives - if the bullshit you're trying so hard to sell were true, why weren't they able to score any points? You're position is beyond STUPID - completely illogical to claim that PSU could not stop ASWP's running game...and yet PSU did precisely that in stopping ASWP from scoring in all of their offensive possessions but 1 LMFAO! BTW dipshit, why precisely would ASWP be punting if they were running at-will on us? Double-LMFAO! Keeping spewing your bullshit troll-boy....as the commercial goes, "troll-boys gonna troll"...

 

[MJG-90]

No dipshit, the fact is that you're wrong! Ollison averaged 2.5 ypc on his 20 rushes excluding his 68 yard carry.

Good point. The only reason they were moving the ball was we weren't containing Kenny Heisman in the first half. He totaled 61 yards on his 10 carries (and lost 31 on 4 sacks). Several scrambles resulted in first downs. Otherwise, they barely moved the ball on us after that missed FG drive.

 

[sluggo72]

Defense has been "OK" IMHO but have been improving greatly. And, take note, Pitt beat a pretty good GaTech team Saturday. Maybe it is because their holder was back from the injury that caused him to miss our game

man you got to just love having Bushwood back!

 

[Obliviax]

No dipshit, the fact is that you're wrong! Ollison averaged 2.5 ypc on his 20 rushes excluding his 68 yard carry. The reason that ASWP couldn't score on any of their 14 possessions except the 2nd is precisely because they could not consistently move the ball and sustain drives - if the bullshit you're trying so hard to sell were true, why weren't they able to score any points? You're position is beyond STUPID - completely illogical to claim that PSU could not stop ASWP's running game...and yet PSU did precisely that in stopping ASWP from scoring in all of their offensive possessions but 1 LMFAO! BTW dipshit, why precisely would ASWP be punting if they were running at-will on us? Double-LMFAO! Keeping spewing your bullshit troll-boy....as the commercial goes, "troll-boys gonna troll"...

Why ride anything? How about we exclude a gift TD and go into halftime losing?

 

[CJF_Said_The_Great_Joe_Paterno]

Good point. The only reason they were moving the ball was we weren't containing Kenny Heisman in the first half. He totaled 61 yards on his 10 carries (and lost 31 on 4 sacks). Several scrambles resulted in first downs. Otherwise, they barely moved the ball on us after that missed FG drive.

Yes, I made this point in my OP...all of ASWP's yardage came on the two big runs and Pickett's multiple 3rd-&-long scrambles (several aided by blatant uncalled holding by O'Neill's traveling clown-show). Between the 2 long runs (68 yarder by Ollison and 38 yarder by ASWP WR) and Pickett 3rd-&-long scrambles that you referenced, it accounted for 180 yards. PSU fixed their "gap discipline" in the 2nd half allowing no long runs....Ollison being a great example, he was ASWP's leading rusher - 21 carries for 119 yards. Excluding the one long run (which ASWP couldn't cash in on as they were stuffed subsequent to it), Ollison ran for 51 yards on 20 carries (a 2.5 ypc average!).

 

[kijana]

LOL. Runs are runs. no exceptions. If you start making excuses for this that and the other, you won't get very far. Pitt was running out us, accept it. fact is, Pitt's punter was accountable for an 11 point swing in the first half (missed PAT, Missed FG and a dropped punt giving us a short field with under two minutes left in the half). .

You make it sound like Pitt was popping off 10+ yard runs every time they ran it. They did not. They had 2 long runs in the first half that accounted for half their rushing yards. Sure the runs count but I would be more worried if Pitt was CONSISTENTLY gashing our defense for huge chucks of yards on almost every rushing attempt versus what actually happened.

 

[doctornick]

It's actually beyond me how anyone could be worried about how our defense played against Pitt. They couldn't do squat. An occasional big run against a defense breakdown is difficult to replicate consistently and easy to adjust to and stop. But they in no way were able to move the ball effectively against our defense.

the OP is absolutely correct that our defense has been great except for the 4th quarter versus App State. Certainly, the quality of the competition comes into play when evaluating the defense so we shouldn't go overboard, but there's a ton of positives so far. Especially with Givens on the field.

 

[PoquosonLion]

I'm not sure Oweh will even make the trip to Illinois. I'd be surprised actually, but he did look good.

I think you’re right and he’s not on the depth chart. Tarburton is, but maybe Simmons will be back keeping those guys off the field. Thinking staff wants to preserve their shirts.

 

[Obliviax]

You make it sound like Pitt was popping off 10+ yard runs every time they ran it. They did not. They had 2 long runs in the first half that accounted for half their rushing yards. Sure the runs count but I would be more worried if Pitt was CONSISTENTLY gashing our defense for huge chucks of yards on almost every rushing attempt versus what actually happened.

check the stats. regardless of the nature of the runs, they were winning the game, controlling the clock and exceeding our total rushing yards in the first half. If you take out "one long run" you also take out TOP and yardage they may have made in that drive. You can't take anything out, that's part of the game. Should we exclude Barkley's long runs last year to determine how good of a RB he was at PSU?

 

[Obliviax]

It's actually beyond me how anyone could be worried about how our defense played against Pitt. They couldn't do squat. An occasional big run against a defense breakdown is difficult to replicate consistently and easy to adjust to and stop. But they in no way were able to move the ball effectively against our defense.

the OP is absolutely correct that our defense has been great except for the 4th quarter versus App State. Certainly, the quality of the competition comes into play when evaluating the defense so we shouldn't go overboard, but there's a ton of positives so far. Especially with Givens on the field.

Again, if not for the holder, we would have been trailing at halftime.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

can't find halftime stats but the drive charts indicate PSU had 203 total yards gross, and Pitt 225. This is after a botched PAT, botched FG, missed TD on 4th and 3 and botched punt.

Ob, you are ignoring that a simple error in technique by our defensive ends, not stilling, allowed the runners to get outside. Our coaches identified it before halftime, made adjustments and stiffled the Pitt ground game.
What more would you expect?

 

[PSU87]

Again, if not for the holder, we would have been trailing at halftime.

And again, you are assuming that we don't score if not for the muffed punt.
Say we end up with 40 yards more to go....
- There was still over 20 seconds on the clock when we scored. Plenty of time.
- That TD pass to Hamler would have scored from way farther out.

 

[Obliviax]

And again, you are assuming that we don't score if not for the muffed punt.
Say we end up with 40 yards more to go....
- There was still over 20 seconds on the clock when we scored. Plenty of time.
- That TD pass to Hamler would have scored from way farther out.

Yep. If you didn't see the momentum swing at that moment, I don't know what to tell you. At that point, Pitt had us beat in time of possession, yards rushing and total yards. If not for the botched kicker, we would have been losing by at least 10-6 and perhaps 13 or 17 six if Pitt had executed on 4th down on our 3 yard line. From that point on. PSU outscored them 45-0.

 

[PSUcup1]

Yep. If you didn't see the momentum swing at that moment, I don't know what to tell you. At that point, Pitt had us beat in time of possession, yards rushing and total yards. If not for the botched kicker, we would have been losing by at least 10-6 and perhaps 13 or 17 six if Pitt had executed on 4th down on our 3 yard line. From that point on. PSU outscored them 45-0.

Huh??

 

[Obliviax]

Ob, you are ignoring that a simple error in technique by our defensive ends, not stilling, allowed the runners to get outside. Our coaches identified it before halftime, made adjustments and stiffled the Pitt ground game.
What more would you expect?

I agree Mary...i was surprised at how matter of fact CJF was about it. And wonder, if so simple, why wasn't the change made earlier. Regardless, hats off to the coaches. And, besides all of that and all the poo pooing of Pitt, we were dangerously close to trailing at halftime.

 

[PSU87]

Yep. If you didn't see the momentum swing at that moment, I don't know what to tell you. At that point, Pitt had us beat in time of possession, yards rushing and total yards. If not for the botched kicker, we would have been losing by at least 10-6 and perhaps 13 or 17 six if Pitt had executed on 4th down on our 3 yard line. From that point on. PSU outscored them 45-0.

Trace.
2 minute drill.
I'll take that any day
I saw the momentum swing, I'm just not as sure as you we couldn't have swung it ourselves.

 

[Obliviax]

Trace.
2 minute drill.
I'll take that any day
I saw the momentum swing, I'm just not as sure as you we couldn't have swung it ourselves.

I never said we could do it ourselves. I said that Pitt had the momentum up until that punter dropped the snap. This is alarming against a team so outmanned like Pitt after an OT win over Appy State. My only point is that I understand the hesitation to feel like PSU is playoff bound without further improvement.