Some perspective, guys

ryoder1

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Feb 17, 2007
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I was on the road most of the day but managed to catch some of the game on the radio and now in the hotel room have read through the game thread here.

Bummer, man.

I honestly thought we'd spring the upset. At the very least I thought it would be a dogfight. Wrong on both counts. Oh well.

But let's not rush to jump off the ledge. At the beginning of the year, most of us thought 9-3 would be good. As bad as things were today, we're still looking at the solid possibility of 10-2 and a very nice bowl game.

OK, in the unlikely event that we lose the white-out next week against Minnesota, I might well join the pile-on.

Meanwhile, this was not a good day. But this is a young team with its best days still ahead.

As for Clifford, he's a great guy and decent player...but not a championship-caliber QB. That's just a hard fact. It always has been.

Regarding Franklin, it is what it is. He's not going to be cut loose at this point, so we sink or swim with the guy.

Let's put this game in the rear-view mirror and think about the Gophers. The narrative changes quickly in college football. Beat Minnesota and then, who knows. Hope springs eternal.
Yeah it is one game but it symbolizes so much more. These themes keep dogging this program:

-We are a weak, finesse team in the trenches that gets manhandled by power teams
-No improvement in the line play over 8 years versus good teams
-Talent that is not utilized or developed
-A coach who cannot come close to winning a big game and has the team unprepared and listless

If the game was actually competitive then I would be more optimistic but this pathetic performance cannot be swept under the carpet. Even if we do go 9-3, most likely none of the above problems will be solved and we are just one of a number of irrelevant B10 teams that annually lose to scUM and O$U and have no prayer to win a conference championship yet alone make the playoff. And next year looks like the same bad movie and the next year.....
 
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lowhandicapper

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Aug 24, 2021
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You never going to make progress until you stop from getting bullied. Today’s game was bad enough. But it happened last year at home to a bad Illinois team.

And there is a long pattern ( 9 years) of the team not being tough enough.
You can't win a national championship without an A front seven. You can't win a conference championship without B+ front seven. This team is an average front 7, C-C+. This is a real problem when you take on a power running team like Michigan.
On offense you can have players that can mask an average offensive line, see Saquon Barkley.
A good team will expose an average front seven and no super star defensive back can mask it.
Penn State hasn't had a great front seven since Connor, Poz, Alford, Hali & company.
Franklin needs to recruit power players as well as he recruits skill players. He hasn't done so.
 

SR108

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Jan 13, 2004
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There would be no Milk and Cookies for Clifford when he comes off the field after screwing the pooch. O'Brien would be all over him. He would go after Hack every time he screwed up. We need a little more tough love as Schiano loves to say. You love them put you have to have no hesitation about getting in tehri faces when they screw up. Thank god Dicktanio retired or we would never better than 4th in the East. Look at Beliema! He comes into a terrible situation cleaning up after another Franklin feel good coach failure and has them playing like killas in his second year. He went out and got Big OL and DL farmboys that want to play and it is showing. Fleck did the same at Minny. Keep mining the Balitmore are for OL talent!!! That Fasanu, Golden Aucumba, Worley, Wallace tem you are trotting out there is doing a great job!!!! I hate overpaying for shit!!! I would give the team to Manny for 4M a year and see what he could do. How much worse can it get??
Many? Did you watch his defense today?
 

blair10

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Gold Member
Dec 31, 2002
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I was on the road most of the day but managed to catch some of the game on the radio and now in the hotel room have read through the game thread here.

Bummer, man.

I honestly thought we'd spring the upset. At the very least I thought it would be a dogfight. Wrong on both counts. Oh well.

But let's not rush to jump off the ledge. At the beginning of the year, most of us thought 9-3 would be good. As bad as things were today, we're still looking at the solid possibility of 10-2 and a very nice bowl game.

OK, in the unlikely event that we lose the white-out next week against Minnesota, I might well join the pile-on.

Meanwhile, this was not a good day. But this is a young team with its best days still ahead.

As for Clifford, he's a great guy and decent player...but not a championship-caliber QB. That's just a hard fact. It always has been.

Regarding Franklin, it is what it is. He's not going to be cut loose at this point, so we sink or swim with the guy.

Let's put this game in the rear-view mirror and think about the Gophers. The narrative changes quickly in college football. Beat Minnesota and then, who knows. Hope springs eternal.

Thank you for the encouragement. I really do appreciate it. However, I believe coach Franklin‘s combined record is 7-18 against OSU, Michigan, and MSU. Accepting annual losses to our biggest rivals in the east division is just plain intolerable. No way should PSU fans lower the bar of expected excellence for our program. Being considered as 2nd tier nationally is not a good place to be. Going to a nice bowl will not change this season’s feeling of failure and disappointment unless we defeat OSU which is highly unlikely under the current head coach.
 
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PSUPride1

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Apr 24, 2003
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This team is pathetic in the trenches. Is actually be surprised if we finish better than 8-4
Exactly. It's not an overreaction to say our play in the trenches has been and is a disgrace. That's on Mr I love you.
 

PAgeologist

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Jan 8, 2017
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Lilly, PA
Many of the same jumped off the JoePa wagon after bad defeats...need 30 examples MOL. Games after bye weeks often suck... check the stats...
However...

I am sorry but after watching this game, one has to ask several questions...Trautwein and John Scott and the S and C coach need to ask if they seriously are interested in keeping their jobs. The Ol and Dl players need to be asked the the same questions. I know bye weeks can de-focus teams... but seriously. Keyveone Lee got one carry for 6 yards. Look at the freshman studs... they got nothing.
The wideouts are fine... TE's and DBs too. But the Ol and Dl were a disgrace. Forgive me if I missed anyone on the Ol and Dl that got injured. If so, I missed that. The rest were a bunch of guys that took a pass on agression and frankly don't know what guys like Ron Heller... Chet Parlavecio... Bruce Clark...Matt Millen, Mike Munchak, Courtney Brown, Bruce Branch .. and I could go on forever.. played with agression and defined PSU football. These guys today sleep walked and must have been looking at the fall sky and daydreamimg about fall colors. They did not leave the fans down. They left themselves and the past players down. Time to get their shit together is now!
Which is another huge problem with Franklin. Absolutely no accountability. Those same players that put up less resistance than a turnstile will be trotted out next week. The same players who can't cover, can't tackle, and make stupid penalties will play again.

Yes, Joe had some bad losses, even several bad seasons. Every successful coach does. But I always felt the ship would be righted. And if nothing else, the opponent knew they were in a physical football game.
 

PSUWrestlingFanSince2011

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Mar 22, 2022
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I was on the road most of the day but managed to catch some of the game on the radio and now in the hotel room have read through the game thread here.

Bummer, man.

I honestly thought we'd spring the upset. At the very least I thought it would be a dogfight. Wrong on both counts. Oh well.

But let's not rush to jump off the ledge. At the beginning of the year, most of us thought 9-3 would be good. As bad as things were today, we're still looking at the solid possibility of 10-2 and a very nice bowl game.

OK, in the unlikely event that we lose the white-out next week against Minnesota, I might well join the pile-on.

Meanwhile, this was not a good day. But this is a young team with its best days still ahead.

As for Clifford, he's a great guy and decent player...but not a championship-caliber QB. That's just a hard fact. It always has been.

Regarding Franklin, it is what it is. He's not going to be cut loose at this point, so we sink or swim with the guy.

Let's put this game in the rear-view mirror and think about the Gophers. The narrative changes quickly in college football. Beat Minnesota and then, who knows. Hope springs eternal.
Too late, Jerry. Many on this board have already jumped off the ledge. Your calm, level-headed approach will neither be appreciated nor understood. Only extreme emotional, over the top responses are acceptable here!
You happy where this program is headed?
 

bdgan

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May 29, 2008
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I was on the road most of the day but managed to catch some of the game on the radio and now in the hotel room have read through the game thread here.

Bummer, man.

I honestly thought we'd spring the upset. At the very least I thought it would be a dogfight. Wrong on both counts. Oh well.

But let's not rush to jump off the ledge. At the beginning of the year, most of us thought 9-3 would be good. As bad as things were today, we're still looking at the solid possibility of 10-2 and a very nice bowl game.

OK, in the unlikely event that we lose the white-out next week against Minnesota, I might well join the pile-on.

Meanwhile, this was not a good day. But this is a young team with its best days still ahead.

As for Clifford, he's a great guy and decent player...but not a championship-caliber QB. That's just a hard fact. It always has been.

Regarding Franklin, it is what it is. He's not going to be cut loose at this point, so we sink or swim with the guy.

Let's put this game in the rear-view mirror and think about the Gophers. The narrative changes quickly in college football. Beat Minnesota and then, who knows. Hope springs eternal.
I'm not convinced that we'll finish 10-2. Maryland and Indy played UM tough while we got blown out. We needed a goal line stand to hold off NW.
 
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S.C. LionsFan

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Oct 11, 2010
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There would be no Milk and Cookies for Clifford when he comes off the field after screwing the pooch. O'Brien would be all over him. He would go after Hack every time he screwed up. We need a little more tough love as Schiano loves to say. You love them put you have to have no hesitation about getting in tehri faces when they screw up. Thank god Dicktanio retired or we would never better than 4th in the East. Look at Beliema! He comes into a terrible situation cleaning up after another Franklin feel good coach failure and has them playing like killas in his second year. He went out and got Big OL and DL farmboys that want to play and it is showing. Fleck did the same at Minny. Keep mining the Balitmore are for OL talent!!! That Fasanu, Golden Aucumba, Worley, Wallace tem you are trotting out there is doing a great job!!!! I hate overpaying for shit!!! I would give the team to Manny for 4M a year and see what he could do. How much worse can it get??
O'Brien deserves absolutely no praise for anything he did at PSU. He was at PSU only as a stepping stone to get head coaching experience to be an NFL head coach. He's difficult to get along with and eventually blows up everywhere he goes.
 

Conemaugh

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May 8, 2020
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Michigan does not have players more skilled than Penn State. But I want to be real here, I think there were a few things at play today...
1. The wind was a huge help to Michigan's plans and a detriment to PSU plan. Sometimes things work that way.
2. Franklin has not figured out the right way to handle his teams off bye weeks.
3. Franklin teams seem overly into trying to do what he thinks will work against teams instead of just perfecting what they do best.
4. It's really hard to beat a top 10 team on the road.
1. Penn State is really good at beating garbage teams. That is because of an extreme talent advantage across the board.
2. Penn State is really good at beating mediocre teams. That is because of an extreme talent advantage across the board.
3. Penn State is really good at beating slightly above average teams (that lack any star players) at Beaver Stadium with the home field advantage.

Those first 3 damn near gives Penn State 7 wins a season.

4. Penn State loses almost every game against teams with more talent.
5. Penn State loses almost every game against teams with equal talent.
6. After a bye week, Penn State could lose to almost anyone.

It's a painful pattern.
 
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Eurotrash1

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Jun 26, 2015
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Let’s just be honest. Franklin has been given a lot of rope to climb. Instead he has managed to hang himself. That’s not the fans fault…it’s his.
 
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Parkerdam555

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Jul 2, 2022
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1. Penn State is really good at beating garbage teams. That is because of an extreme talent advantage across the board.
2. Penn State is really good at beating mediocre teams. That is because of an extreme talent advantage across the board.
3. Penn State is really good at beating slightly above average teams (that lack any star players) at Beaver Stadium with the home field advantage.

Those first 3 damn near gives Penn State 7 wins a season.

4. Penn State loses almost every game against teams with more talent.
5. Penn State loses almost every game against teams with equal talent.
6. After a bye week, Penn State could lose to almost anyone.

It's a painful pattern.
As Matt McGloin said, he needs to stay home with his team and coach before a bye week and stop leaving to recruit.
 

john4psu

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Sep 7, 2003
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10-2 and a nice bowl game is a steaming bowl of shit for coach who hasn't produced in eight years. Hell, Bill O'Brien's record over two years was 15-9 with half a football roster.

The WRs can't get open. The linebackers can't tackle. Franklin goes for it on a 4th and 6 and early in the game for only being down a TD. Clifford is a shitty quarterback but hey, he's having fun. He got outplayed by a freshman quarterback.
A Big 10 Championship and two Major Bowl wins isn't producing?

noOKXJJ.gif
 

Jerry

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May 29, 2001
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It’s as much how we lost as it is losing. We were thrashed in all phases of the game and the point about being young and their best days being ahead is questionable if we don’t improve in the trenches and tackling. Where does that improvement come from and when does it get here? It hasn’t been here in CJF’s tenure so far.

Totally fair point. I mean, 400 rushing yards for Michigan? My God. That's depressing. That's a beat-down.

On the other hand, maybe it's better from a psychological standpoint to lose a game like that -- a slap in the face and bucket of cold water on the head -- than to lose, as we often have, by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory or being jobbed by the zebras.

Either way, I think most of the criticism expressed in this thread is rational and justified.

However, keep in mind that Michigan dominated us (49-10) in similar style in 2016...and we went on to win a conference championship. In fact, it ended up being Franklin's best year.

The turn-around game in 2016 arguably occurred the very next week against...you guessed it...Minnesota when we mounted a 4th-quarter comeback and won in overtime.

Here we are six years later, and Minnesota is on deck again. Very big game. If we have one of our patented hangovers from this week's fiasco and lose the white-out, I don't know, the wheels may come off the cart.

But if we come back strong and get the W...different story. Like I said, hope springs eternal.

By the way, I read there was an altercation of sorts in the tunnel at halftime...lots of woofing and maybe some pushing and shoving. I do wish our kids would throttle back on the trash talk and related on-field antics. It only increases the embarrassment of getting your asses kicked.
 
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The Kid Twist

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Totally fair point. I mean, 400 rushing yards for Michigan? My God. That's depressing. That's a beat-down.

On the other hand, maybe it's better from a psychological standpoint to lose a game like that -- a slap in the face and bucket of cold water on the head -- than to lose, as we often have, by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory or being jobbed by the zebras.

Either way, I think most of the criticism expressed in this thread is rational and justified.

However, keep in mind that Michigan dominated us (49-10) in similar style in 2016...and we went on to win a conference championship. In fact, it ended up being Franklin's best year.

The turn-around game in 2016 arguably occurred the very next week against...you guessed it...Minnesota when we mounted a 4th-quarter comeback and won in overtime.

Here we are six years later, and Minnesota is on deck again. Very big game. If we have one of our patented hangovers from this week's fiasco and lose the white-out, I don't know, the wheels may come off the cart.

But if we come back strong and get the W...different story. Like I said, hope springs eternal.

By the way, I read there was an altercation of sorts in the tunnel at halftime...lots of woofing and maybe some pushing and shoving. I do wish our kids would throttle back on the trash talk and related on-field antics. It only increases the embarrassment of getting your asses kicked.
The antics are joke. The "Hood" thuggery from our guys is laughable, it is all smoke and mirrors just like in real life. These guys are and have been soft as the Pillsbury doughboy since Franklin took over. I might even come around on the stupid, classless thug clowning if we could back it up like the Miami teams of the 80s-90s but our guys are as weak as shit. I mean Johnny Dixon is flexing his muscles after he just got flagged for a killer drive extending PI call??? "STUUPIDDDD!!!"

Joe has to be turning over in his grave. I never remember us having teams this pathetically weak. Joe would be all over these whimps and wouldn't have recruited most of them. The team has no character or leadership. The Franklin milk and cookies approach is not working. Start getting in Clifford's face when he walks off the field after another crappy series where he is still throwing off his back foot after 6 YEARS!!!! Start cracking the whip like a Beliema or Schaino. Their teams may get beat but they will always go down fighting unlike our team of thug mugging wannabe cream puffs!!!