Mayne the NCAA should let me do the rankings. They can contact me the 2nd weekend of March and I'll provide them with the brackets. #Fairandbalanced
Southern Scuffle
- Thread starter wrestlingfan22
- Start date
The more I think about this scenario/solution, maybe it is the best way to get your team to put the best wrestlers on the mat as compared to what currently exists. 🤔
This is a bit morbid. But we do have an example.
In 2000, Cincy was ranked #1 most of the season. Eventual #1 overall pick Kenyon Martin broke his leg in the conference championship game and was out for the tourney. The NCAA moved them to a number 2 seed in the bracket and they lost in the 2nd round.
I get what you're trying to say here, but this example is no longer applicable since B10 seeds all 14 wrestlers. Coon would open with Bye, and Snyder (with a 0-0 conference record) would be unlikely to open against a top 4 seed.
It would be a much bigger issue in a conference with fewer NCAA qualifiers, such as ACC or Pac 12 or SoCon.
If wrestling had a dual meet tournament, like some want, that would work.
But that’s not how it works in “individual” sports like swimming, gymnastics, track, cross country, wrestling, etc.
Meanwhile, the semis are set. A few top 10 wrestlers scattered through the brackets, but nothing like it was when PSU and Cornell showed up at full strength.
#4 Hart and #6 Burgland meet in the semis at 149. #3 Alirez likely awaits in the finals.
#3 Coleman and #4 Franek could meet in the finals at 157
At 174, Plott #4 could meet Mocco #11 in the finals.
#4 Laird could face #10 Smith in the 197 finals.
That's about it for top-10 vs top-10.
#4 Hart and #6 Burgland meet in the semis at 149. #3 Alirez likely awaits in the finals.
#3 Coleman and #4 Franek could meet in the finals at 157
At 174, Plott #4 could meet Mocco #11 in the finals.
#4 Laird could face #10 Smith in the 197 finals.
That's about it for top-10 vs top-10.
Two other proposals to address ducking:
Raise the minimum number of matches to qualify for NCAAs to 10.
Require that a wrestler participate in a certain percentage of team opportunities, say 70%.
Raise the minimum number of matches to qualify for NCAAs to 10.
Require that a wrestler participate in a certain percentage of team opportunities, say 70%.
The sports administrations at the universities need to come together to solve this one. I think coaches are responsible for the mentality of "ducking" due to wanting to place better at nationals. Wrestlers are just a pawn in this scheme. The culture needs to change from the top to bottom. I don't think a lot of kids want to miss or duck a match. Of course there are exceptions and other variables that come into play like injury but I have to trust that coaches like Cael wrestle everyone that should unless they really are injured. I can't think of one kid on our team right now or in the last ten years who would want to skip a match for seeding purposes.
I'm reminded of Nolf a few years back with a bum knee and he was chomping at the bit to get on the mat. I'm betting Cael had his eye on him for weeks so he wouldn't reinjure himself.
In any event, the scenarios surrounding what could happen are tiresome. We need change at the top where athletic departments start putting an emphasis on dual meets and traditional tournaments. Look at football and all the cheesy trophies kids are playing for during the year in the big ten like the Paul Bunyan trophy etc. Start putting something on the line. Coaches need to start smack talking other programs then let's see what happens. Lol. What would happen if Cael entered PSU in the scuffle and then challenged Arizona state or Missouri to come get some. I'm thinking those coaches couldn't just walk away and save face.
I'm reminded of Nolf a few years back with a bum knee and he was chomping at the bit to get on the mat. I'm betting Cael had his eye on him for weeks so he wouldn't reinjure himself.
In any event, the scenarios surrounding what could happen are tiresome. We need change at the top where athletic departments start putting an emphasis on dual meets and traditional tournaments. Look at football and all the cheesy trophies kids are playing for during the year in the big ten like the Paul Bunyan trophy etc. Start putting something on the line. Coaches need to start smack talking other programs then let's see what happens. Lol. What would happen if Cael entered PSU in the scuffle and then challenged Arizona state or Missouri to come get some. I'm thinking those coaches couldn't just walk away and save face.
I know I’ve seen this in reference to Dresser many times but I must have missed it - what was the origin of it?
Dresser was referring to the Brands refusing to wrestle VA Tech. He wanted to call them p***ies, but his wife didn't like it. So he called them oranges.
NWCAs when Dresser was at VT. VT had beaten NC State but NC State was sent to face Iowa. Dresser accused Brands of rigging the selection in order to avoid facing VT. "Orange" was a euphamism for female anatomy.
Hilariously, NC State beat Iowa in Carver.
The interview where this happened:
Since Coon beat Snyder once that year and possibly beats him in this scenario isn't it possible Snyder does pay the price for not building a season resume?
A few things that could be done.
Ducking. If teams meet during the year and one kid at a weight does not take the mat (no matter the reason) then in post season seeding if the two kids are seeded within 2 spots of each other the kid who did not take the mat drops below the kid who did.
Things like mid-season tournaments. Other programs are trying to figure out what Penn State's secret sauce contains, and I guarentee people have noticed PSU is competing less and not worrying about tough mid-season tournaments.
If Cael were to decide there is a significant positive to supporting the Scuffle he could ask Kraft to ask the Big10 to not schedule PSU the first weekend of January and then have conversations with John Smith, Brian Smith, Eggum, Grey, Kolat, Pop, Robie, Bentley and the west coast coaches and all of a sudden the Southern Scuffle has the wrestling community's attention and is must see. From a fan's point of view I would love this. However, I doubt Cael sees the wellbeing of the Southern Scuffle as his responsibility.
Ducking. If teams meet during the year and one kid at a weight does not take the mat (no matter the reason) then in post season seeding if the two kids are seeded within 2 spots of each other the kid who did not take the mat drops below the kid who did.
Things like mid-season tournaments. Other programs are trying to figure out what Penn State's secret sauce contains, and I guarentee people have noticed PSU is competing less and not worrying about tough mid-season tournaments.
If Cael were to decide there is a significant positive to supporting the Scuffle he could ask Kraft to ask the Big10 to not schedule PSU the first weekend of January and then have conversations with John Smith, Brian Smith, Eggum, Grey, Kolat, Pop, Robie, Bentley and the west coast coaches and all of a sudden the Southern Scuffle has the wrestling community's attention and is must see. From a fan's point of view I would love this. However, I doubt Cael sees the wellbeing of the Southern Scuffle as his responsibility.
Collegiate Duals are also scheduled too close to the Scuffle.
I agree. But to reiterate we need some challenges thrown out by some coaches to other coaches who are gaming or at least to pick up on the rivalry factor
Iowa lol. Just kidding. No ody is saying anyone in particular is ****ing we are sharing opinions about how to make the sport better by somehow getting wrestlers and teams to actually throw starters out there. I'm in the camp that it's on the coaches and the need to make kids wrestle more a priority.
Not that it mattered in the outcome of the match, but the call at the end of period 1 in Laird-Pentz is what remains incredibly frustrating about review. Laird takes Pentz down and is in a crab ride with a half when the period ends but the ref called 2 a few seconds too early so they overturn the call and reset to 13 seconds with no TD. The ND coach is doing his job for his wrestler but the flawed system just gets gamed.
Puts the refs in a very difficult position trying to wait out reaction time which in turn leads to many challenges. If they can not incorporate continuation of wrestling into review it needs to be scrapped or remove issues of control from its scope. Honestly, it's 50/50 that they get it right whenever they review a bang-bang TD call now anyway so what's the point?
Puts the refs in a very difficult position trying to wait out reaction time which in turn leads to many challenges. If they can not incorporate continuation of wrestling into review it needs to be scrapped or remove issues of control from its scope. Honestly, it's 50/50 that they get it right whenever they review a bang-bang TD call now anyway so what's the point?
To me, I think this is the biggest reason why the college wrestling is becoming terrible before January. I think coaches are figuring out how best to have kids peaking in March and its leading to them sitting kids more early on. I'm trying to take an unconventional look at this problem. Are the kids wrestling more throughout the entire year than in the 70's -90s? I really don't know so I'm asking. I think if they are then it may be best to shorten the season to January to March. I also think all these 5, 6 and 7 year Seniors may sit out more than say your freshman to juniors do. If so, maybe getting rid of all these redshirts would lead to a better product.
Probably not a popular opinion but I'd bet if we shortened the season and went back to freshman sit, get rid of all the redshirts and you only get 3 years of eligibility, these kids would wrestle more and I think the coaches would get everything they can out the kid because they only have them for a short period of time. And with a shortened season, coaches will feel the kids will need the mat time so they are peaking in March. I haven't really sat down and really thought about some of these things I laid out so admittingly these ideas could be dumb as hell.
How much shorter can the season get? Cael wrestled 40 matches a year just 20 years ago. Without looking it up, I'm guessing that most guys did then.
In high school, most of these guys travel to huge tournaments all over the country. So they're not afraid of tough competition.
Something has gone terribly wrong with the mentality of the sport that tough competition seems to be actively avoided. From wrestlers being ready to go just to be held out by their coaches to high ranking guys missing tough matches and in season tournaments.
A few examples
Jerry White was 70-13-1
Jerry Villecco was 71-13-1
4 or 5 years later
John Hanrahan was 108-33-1.
Bob Truby was 101-27-4
Jeremy Hunter 117-23
Phil Davis 116-20
Quintin Wright 116-23 (33-13 Fr, 32-0 Sr)
Bo Nickal 120-3
Carter Starocci was 23-0 last year, if he goes undefeated and wrestles everything this year except the Army tournament he will be 24-0.
Yes they used to wrestle fewer matches, then it ballooned to wrestling 35 to 40 or more a year. Cael has most certainly been reducing the number of competitions his kids wrestle in.
Shortening the season is only going to reduce the competitions even further.
Probably an exorcist would be called so Cael's body could be dispossessed.
'All these holiday tourneys are getting so weak, as no one wants to wrestle. Coaches and wrestlers say it's too much. What baloney! Back in the day, they loved wrestling 30 to 40 matches a year, and no one was complaining!'
(My grammatical interpretation.)
I know; but without punctuation in the OP, I was free to offer alternative interpretations.
Maybe they used talk to text, and got louder as they spoke, as they got more and more worked up. That'd explain the sole punctuation at the end. 😉I know; but without punctuation in the OP, I was free to offer alternative interpretations.
Sometimes you have to say, comma and period.
Just an idea. We can put Ryan and Koll in charge of the Southern Scuffle and they can insist that is of vital importance the Scuffle be taken seriously and demand NCAA championship points be awarded for Scuffle finishes. That will get everybody to participate and take things seriously.
I don't know what it is, but something about the above seems ridiculously familiar.
I don't know what it is, but something about the above seems ridiculously familiar.
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Actually something along those lines isn't a bad idea. I don't think points from a tournament should could towards nationals but what if each wrestler could earn points based on how much they wrestled. Those points could be added to the algorithm they use to determine seedings. And a wrestler wouldn't be penalized per sey if they didn't wrestle due to an injury they just wouldn't have the points to seed them above a certain seed number. For example, in order to be seed number one you would have to accrued so many points based on how often you wrestled
That's already indirectly in the seeding criteria -- eligibility for coaches' ranking and RPI.
Be careful what you wish for in making it an explicit criterion -- may make low-quality Opens more popular without fixing ducking. The Law of Unintended Consequences is undefeated.
He posted a vid on Instagram of typical NYE college shenanigans - looked a little loopy. Maybe not the best prep for Griffith
