Spanier Avoids Jailtime?

[step.eng69]

Can you imagine writing a report that says" witness heard slapping sounds and assumed they were sexual

$hit, I couldn't make slapping sounds, with my balls, going full bore in my prime let alone at JerBears' age. Is this really possible? The only sound I hear my nuts making these days is a barely audible thud as my low hanging fruit smack my knees as I walk from the shower to the bedroom.

 

[bdgan]

Why else would he have called his dad as his first response, and why would his dad say it wasn't worth calling authorities about?

Because he was bothered by what he heard/saw but wasn't sure exactly what it was.

 

[bdgan]

Communal showers between adult males is one thing...and even that can incite trouble ala what was going on at Ohio State in Larkin Hall.

But a shower between an adult and a child is another. It may not qualify as “illegal” but it’s not normal behavior and should raise a red flag.

And it’s always been weird. Stories that 40 years ago my coach showered with his players all the time doesn’t make it normal. It likely just means that coach was a pederast.

My coach showered with us on occasion. Interestingly our phys ed teacher was also the drivers ed teacher. I was one of 3 guys that he took driving last period on Fridays and if there was time left we played basketball. I remember him showering with us. These guys never messed with us and we had no thoughts of them being pedophiles. Of course we were 16-17 years old, not 13.

 

[BobPSU92]

$hit, I couldn't make slapping sounds, with my balls, going full bore in my prime let alone at JerBears' age. Is this really possible? The only sound I hear my nuts making these days is a barely audible thud as my low hanging fruit smack my knees as I walk from the shower to the bedroom.

 

[Art]

I disagree. Assume a woman goes to HR or calls an anonymous hotline to claim that a fellow employee assaulted her. Then HR asks a few people in the company including the accused and concludes that there was no such assault. Should they dispose of the written records?

To me it's not different than quality records. A customer complains, a corrective action request is prepared, the issue is investigated, and the conclusion is that the complain was without merit. Do you dispose of those records? I don't think so.

Sure, going to HR that is tasked with and has procedures to deal with sexual assault complaints. Going to people who've had no training in the area? What happened was reasonably predictable.

 

[AvgUser]

$hit, I couldn't make slapping sounds, with my balls, going full bore in my prime let alone at JerBears' age. Is this really possible? The only sound I hear my nuts making these days is a barely audible thud as my low hanging fruit smack my knees as I walk from the shower to the bedroom.

I agree. That has always bothered me as an absolutely ludicrous statement. He heard slapping sounds. Give me a friggin break!

Walking in to a shower and hearing a man and a woman get it on with great passion wouldn't produce that level of slapping noise. Add to that that the youth was not in distress.

What a crock of Sh!t!

 

[indynittany]

The reporting chain stopped at TSM because Jack wasn't going to risk putting an end to his six figure PT as needed side job.

If JR thought there was something to report, he would have never recommended that Jerry wear swim trunks when he showered with kids, and Bruce Heim would have never offered Jerry the use of the Hilton Garden Inn.

This was not a thing until deflecting attention away from TSM became top priority.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I worked for more superintendents than I care to count in my 37 years in public education.....I've got almost 10 in now as the administrator of a 17 school athletic conference (so that's an additional 17). I have never heard of any administrator who consults counsel and then does not take the advice requested.Remember you are billed for every consult....meaning there is some record of your interaction. There is no way in hell that Gary didn't follow the instructions that Courtney gave him. If there was ever any intention of "winging it," or being secretive, he never would have called Wendell.

Didn’t Courtney testify that he suggested that they call CPS? Though again, I’m not sure what they would report if they called that agency.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Communal showers between adult males is one thing...and even that can incite trouble ala what was going on at Ohio State in Larkin Hall.

But a shower between an adult and a child is another. It may not qualify as “illegal” but it’s not normal behavior and should raise a red flag.

And it’s always been weird. Stories that 40 years ago my coach showered with his players all the time doesn’t make it normal. It likely just means that coach was a pederast.

I’ve asked probably well over a hundred times on this site for a non-sexual, non-pedophilic reason for Jerry Sandusky to have been in the shower alone with the boy (really with either boy, but certainly the second time). Nobody has ever come up with a reasonable excuse. The reasons are usually, “Because they just worked out and needed to clean up” which is obviously not a legitimate reason.

 

[sluggo72]

I’ve asked probably well over a hundred times on this sight for a non-sexual, non-pedophilic reason for Jerry Sandusky to have been in the shower alone with the boy (really with either boy, but certainly the second time). Nobody has ever come up with a reasonable excuse. The reasons are usually, “Because they just worked out and needed to clean up” which is obviously not a legitimate reason.

Only because you don’t think it is

 

[Connorpozlee]

Only because you don’t think it is

I am waiting for one person in here to tell of a time when they were a kid that they showered alone with a grown man and had physical contact with that man, including bear hugging.
Surely people get the difference between a communal shower with a group of people and showering alone with a child. Also, I assume people understand the difference between showering alone with a child, getting cleaned up, dried off and dressed as opposed to showering alone with a child and having physical contact with the child. Surely.

 

[marshall23]

Didn’t Courtney testify that he suggested that they call CPS? Though again, I’m not sure what they would report if they called that agency.

I thought he said that if he had been told that CSA was suspected he would have insisted they call. Again, what else would he say? To be fair....no one mentioned CSA (remember even Dranov said he heard nothing from MM that required a phone call to CYS or anyone) until Mike met up with PSP 10 years later.
Courtney worked both sides and his wife was deep in the TSM.....I think he has since "left town."

 

[marshall23]

$hit, I couldn't make slapping sounds, with my balls, going full bore in my prime let alone at JerBears' age. Is this really possible? The only sound I hear my nuts making these days is a barely audible thud as my low hanging fruit smack my knees as I walk from the shower to the bedroom.

and rumor is he doesn't have nuts anyway.....lol

 

[Legion of Lions]

I’ve asked probably well over a hundred times on this site for a non-sexual, non-pedophilic reason for Jerry Sandusky to have been in the shower alone with the boy (really with either boy, but certainly the second time). Nobody has ever come up with a reasonable excuse. The reasons are usually, “Because they just worked out and needed to clean up” which is obviously not a legitimate reason.

Who cares???....The question of Sandusky & "an unidentified boy" is not what is the issue here - It is just as simple as this...

Sandusky COULD have been doing anything...what we know today is that the most probable, truthful "version" of MM's testimony is NOT what the OAG or the PA courts used in their legal case against Sandusky. There was nothing in 2001 that supported criminal actions....no matter how much you try to take speculation and turn it into LEGAL FACT. Every one of the people MM spoke to in 2001 did not state that they believed MM should go to police - NO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY to report!!

The entire case is based on speculation and a history of twisting testimonies to match a "Story" the OAG and Corbett wanted. Sandusky's "crimes" have many suspicious issues surrounding them and IN I FAIR TRIAL WITH REAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION, I believe None of the accusers are deemed credible.

But this is NOT the issue here....When you have one reported event - the MM account of ????? with ????. - how do you link PSU and Paterno with any illegal anything?? More importantly....what is your MOTIVE for involving PSU with a potential crime by a former employee???

Let me save your 6 brain cells that may still function the work necessary to arrive at the answer ---- You need PSU money to BUY all the parts needed to support the OAG "Story" and presentment.
Revisit what this money ment to the "Story".......Lanny Davis (an under considered member of this crime), the OAG, Eisenbach, Corbett, Noonan, Fina, THE OGBOT, Freeh, all needed $$$ to "play their part" and to support bribing the "victims" (all of which needed 3 weeks of "therapy" to remember how horribly Sandusky abused them....in theater this is called learning your lines) - as well as to provide "incentives" for the NCAA, B1G and the media to promote this farce.

The case against Sandusky appears to have been constructed because LEGALLY (REPEAT LEGALLY) was weak at best. Without MM's most shocking "version" - the "rape of a 10 year old" version of PSU showers, all of this legal linkage to PSU, Paterno and C/S/S was not possible.

The real criminals are those that STOLE PSU millions and the PA Courts, judges and elected (& appointed government lackeys) who concocted this "Story" to abuse their power of the State for their own purposes....and that includes the $$$ theft held within PA government agencies and the $$$ Millions the "oversight organizations" (NCAA/B1G) stole in "fines for a "crime" that did not even LEGALLY EXIST in 2001.

THIS WAS A PROFESSIONAL POLITICAL HIT JOB!! The proof of the $$$ MOTIVE of these real criminals for all of this was shredded with the TSM records - a feature of this crime that is impossible to ignore and the real set of crimes that STILL needs to be investigated.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I thought he said that if he had been told that CSA was suspected he would have insisted they call. Again, what else would he say? To be fair....no one mentioned CSA (remember even Dranov said he heard nothing from MM that required a phone call to CYS or anyone) until Mike met up with PSP 10 years later.
Courtney worked both sides and his wife was deep in the TSM.....I think he has since "left town."

There is a great chance you are correct. I can’t keep up with the details very well any more.

 

[marshall23]

I am waiting for one person in here to tell of a time when they were a kid that they showered alone with a grown man and had physical contact with that man, including bear hugging.
Surely people get the difference between a communal shower with a group of people and showering alone with a child. Also, I assume people understand the difference between showering alone with a child, getting cleaned up, dried off and dressed as opposed to showering alone with a child and having physical contact with the child. Surely.

To clarify my position for the zillionth time......I think The PSU 3 were framed. JS is a weird dude.....perhaps more than that. I don't think he got a fair trial. I would like to see another trial, to learn more, now that the OAG would need to conduct a trial in the light of day.

 

[sluggo72]

I am waiting for one person in here to tell of a time when they were a kid that they showered alone with a grown man and had physical contact with that man, including bear hugging.
Surely people get the difference between a communal shower with a group of people and showering alone with a child. Also, I assume people understand the difference between showering alone with a child, getting cleaned up, dried off and dressed as opposed to showering alone with a child and having physical contact with the child. Surely.

Bear hugging when did that occur?

 

[Connorpozlee]

Who cares???....The question of Sandusky & "an unidentified boy" is not what is the issue here - It is just as simple as this...

Sandusky COULD have been doing anything...what we know today is that the most probable, truthful "version" of MM's testimony is NOT what the OAG or the PA courts used in their legal case against Sandusky. There was nothing in 2001 that supported criminal actions....no matter how much you try to take speculation and turn it into LEGAL FACT. Every one of the people MM spoke to in 2001 did not state that they believed MM should go to police - NO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY to report!!

The entire case is based on speculation and a history of twisting testimonies to match a "Story" the OAG and Corbett wanted. Sandusky's "crimes" have many suspicious issues surrounding them and IN I FAIR TRIAL WITH REAL LEGAL REPRESENTATION, I believe None of the accusers are deemed credible.

But this is NOT the issue here....When you have one reported event - the MM account of ????? with ????. - how do you link PSU and Paterno with any illegal anything?? More importantly....what is your MOTIVE for involving PSU with a potential crime by a former employee???

Let me save your 6 brain cells that may still function the work necessary to arrive at the answer ---- You need PSU money to BUY all the parts needed to support the OAG "Story" and presentment.
Revisit what this money ment to the "Story".......Lanny Davis (an under considered member of this crime), the OAG, Eisenbach, Corbett, Noonan, Fina, THE OGBOT, Freeh, all needed $$$ to "play their part" and to support bribing the "victims" (all of which needed 3 weeks of "therapy" to remember how horribly Sandusky abused them....in theater this is called learning your lines) - as well as to provide "incentives" for the NCAA, B1G and the media to promote this farce.

The case against Sandusky appears to have been constructed because LEGALLY (REPEAT LEGALLY) was weak at best. Without MM's most shocking "version" - the "rape of a 10 year old" version of PSU showers, all of this legal linkage to PSU, Paterno and C/S/S was not possible.

The real criminals are those that STOLE PSU millions and the PA Courts, judges and elected (& appointed government lackeys) who concocted this "Story" to abuse their power of the State for their own purposes....and that includes the $$$ theft held within PA government agencies and the $$$ Millions the "oversight organizations" (NCAA/B1G) stole in "fines for a "crime" that did not even LEGALLY EXIST in 2001.

THIS WAS A PROFESSIONAL POLITICAL HIT JOB!! The proof of the $$$ MOTIVE of these real criminals for all of this was shredded with the TSM records - a feature of this crime that is impossible to ignore and the real set of crimes that STILL needs to be investigated.

That’s quite a response to my post. I’m not sure what LEGAL FACT you see me making. I’m not sure my saying I can’t think of a reasonable excuse for him to be alone in showers with boys, having physical contact with them is my attempt at making a LEGAL FACT.

 

[marshall23]

Bear hugging when did that occur?

I think that was the 98 incident. Not cool.

 

[Connorpozlee]

To clarify my position for the zillionth time......I think The PSU 3 were framed. JS is a weird dude.....perhaps more than that. I don't think he got a fair trial. I would like to see another trial, to learn more, now that the OAG would need to conduct a trial in the light of day.

I’m with you 100% on this.
I think a lot of people get thrown off thinking that Jerry Sandusky has to be innocent of abusing children to make the case in favor of the PSU 3. At this point, I am fairly secure in my belief that the 3 administrators were screwed over and that Jerry Sandusky was a pedophile. They are not mutually exclusive positions.

 

[indynittany]

I am waiting for one person in here to tell of a time when they were a kid that they showered alone with a grown man and had physical contact with that man, including bear hugging.
Surely people get the difference between a communal shower with a group of people and showering alone with a child. Also, I assume people understand the difference between showering alone with a child, getting cleaned up, dried off and dressed as opposed to showering alone with a child and having physical contact with the child. Surely.

Not really sure what your point is. C/S/S understood that showering alone with a child was inappropriate and, in the event of even a false accusation, would leave PSU "vulnerable" in the event of a civil suit because of the he said/he said aspect.

As for the contact, you assume it was initiated by Jerry. Read Alan Meyers' statement to Amendola's investigator.

In Schultz's notes, he says "Tell JS to avoid bringing children alone to Lasch". This single bullet point tells the whole story. If abuse had been reported to them, the word "avoid" would not have been used. He would have said something more along the lines of, "tell that sick SOB he is never to set foot in my facilities again!" Even more importantly, he specifically emphasized that Jerry not bring kids to the facilities alone. If he just wanted Jerry to stop bringing kids to Lasch, why didn't he just say so? Why did he add the word "alone"? Logic suggests he (they) were focused on preventing a he said/he said scenario like what occurred in '98. Nothing more.

 

[francofan]

To clarify my position for the zillionth time......I think The PSU 3 were framed. JS is a weird dude.....perhaps more than that. I don't think he got a fair trial. I would like to see another trial, to learn more, now that the OAG would need to conduct a trial in the light of day.

If Sandusky is fortunate enough to win a new trial, there is a reasonable chance the prosecution will fold and not present a case because the evidence is so weak. Al Lindsay made this assertion at the February news conference in State College after Sandusky won a new sentencing hearing.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Not really sure what your point is. C/S/S understood that showering alone with a child was inappropriate and, in the event of even a false accusation, would leave PSU "vulnerable" in the event of a civil suit because of the he said/he said aspect.

As for the contact, you assume it was initiated by Jerry. Read Alan Meyers' statement to Amendola's investigator.

In Schultz's notes, he says "Tell JS to avoid bringing children alone to Lasch". This single bullet point tells the whole story. If abuse had been reported to them, the word "avoid" would not have been used. He would have said something more along the lines of, "tell that sick SOB he is never to set foot in my facilities again!" Even more importantly, he specifically emphasized that Jerry not bring kids to the facilities alone. If he just wanted Jerry to stop bringing kids to Lasch, why didn't he just say so? Why did he add the word "alone"? Logic suggests he (they) were focused on preventing a he said/he said scenario like what occurred in '98. Nothing more.

Two separate issues Indy. I’m not in disagreement that the admins were not sure exactly what they were dealing with. That doesn’t mean Jerry being alone in a shower with a boy again should be seen as him being innocent and naive.

 

[Mixolydian]

Because he was bothered by what he heard/saw but wasn't sure exactly what it was.

The fvcktard said he was pretty damn sure what it was in front of the jury...

 

[RussianEagle]

I agree. That has always bothered me as an absolutely ludicrous statement. He heard slapping sounds. Give me a friggin break!

Walking in to a shower and hearing a man and a woman get it on with great passion wouldn't produce that level of slapping noise. Add to that that the youth was not in distress.

What a crock of Sh!t!

My belief is that McQueary actually completely made up the slapping sounds story as an excuse to why he was suspicious (when he really just wanted face time with JoePa).

 

[bdgan]

The fvcktard said he was pretty damn sure what it was in front of the jury...

IMO somewhere along the line MM gave into pressure and started embellishing his story. Maybe so he wouldn't be accused of not doing enough.

 

[NittPicker]

IMO somewhere along the line MM gave into pressure and started embellishing his story. Maybe so he wouldn't be accused of not doing enough.

Or maybe the OAG let him know his cooperation would result in no scrutiny of McQ's other activities.

 

[francofan]

Or maybe the OAG let him know his cooperation would result in no scrutiny of McQ's other activities.

Those other activities included his propensity to gamble on college football and to send pictures of his anatomy to women who were not his wife.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

When was this taken? Tia just asking

This was taken just before MM went to put his shoes in his locker on the “fateful” evening. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

 

[sluggo72]

This was taken just before MM went to put his shoes in his locker on the “fateful” evening. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

No but when was that fateful night?? Dec or February is the point. Would lay down a more accurate time line

 

[step.eng69]

Thank you so much Bob for responding and offering your assistance. My idea is this:
If we could make an audio of two guys making slapping sounds thru, you know what, and record the decibels rating at the distance from the shower to MM's location we put could that horse to bed.

What say ye Bob! Im game to give it a try....you?

 

[Mixolydian]

Thank you so much Bob for responding and offering your assistance. My idea is this:
If we could make an audio of two guys making slapping sounds thru, you know what, and record the decibels rating at the distance from the shower to MM's location we could that horse to bed.

What say ye Bob! Im game to give it a try....you?

I’ll bring the decibel meter while you two do your thing. But I’m staying outside the double doors!

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

$hit, I couldn't make slapping sounds, with my balls, going full bore in my prime let alone at JerBears' age. Is this really possible? The only sound I hear my nuts making these days is a barely audible thud as my low hanging fruit smack my knees as I walk from the shower to the bedroom.

Step, all I can say is “Nice Share”!

 

[step.eng69]

I’ll bring the decibel meter while you two do your thing. But I’m staying outside the double doors!

Let me be CLEAR, this is not a thing, it is reasearch for the betterment of child protection agencies throughout the state.
Bob and I could probably get state funding.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

No but when was that fateful night?? Dec or February is the point. Would lay down a more accurate time line

When do you think the “fateful night” occurred?

 

[step.eng69]

Step, all I can say is “Nice Share”!

 

[Mixolydian]

Let me be CLEAR, this is not a thing, it is reasearch for the betterment of child protection agencies throughout the state.
Bob and I could probably get state funding.

Yes buddy yes. I gotcha step!

 

[sluggo72]

When do you think the “fateful night” occurred?

Heck that should be easy, if what you linked is accurate, just look at the time stamp!! Why do you think I asked !! It seems that is NCIS 101

 

[Agoodnap]

Not really sure what your point is. C/S/S understood that showering alone with a child was inappropriate and, in the event of even a false accusation, would leave PSU "vulnerable" in the event of a civil suit because of the he said/he said aspect.

As for the contact, you assume it was initiated by Jerry. Read Alan Meyers' statement to Amendola's investigator.

In Schultz's notes, he says "Tell JS to avoid bringing children alone to Lasch". This single bullet point tells the whole story. If abuse had been reported to them, the word "avoid" would not have been used. He would have said something more along the lines of, "tell that sick SOB he is never to set foot in my facilities again!" Even more importantly, he specifically emphasized that Jerry not bring kids to the facilities alone. If he just wanted Jerry to stop bringing kids to Lasch, why didn't he just say so? Why did he add the word "alone"? Logic suggests he (they) were focused on preventing a he said/he said scenario like what occurred in '98. Nothing more.

I'm hazy on the 98 incident. Could you please give the highlights?

 

[RussianEagle]

I'm hazy on the 98 incident. Could you please give the highlights?

Jerry picked up an 11 year old boy while he was in a communal shower. Jerry claimed it was to help him wash his hair. The boy told his mom about it when he got home. The mom made a police report. After talking to the kid and his mom (but not Jerry) a psychologist claimed there was some likely pedophile behavior. But when child services actually questioned the boy, he insisted there was no sexual contact whatsoever and no chargers were filed. I believe the state and a counselor warned Jerry to not shower with boys again, but Jerry’s remembrance of the incident was that no one seemed to act like it was a big deal.

Jerry continued to develop a strong friendship with the boy as he grew into a heterosexual man. In fact not long before Jerry’s arrest, the now 23/24 year old man was still having dinner with the Sandusky’s and sent Jerry texts on Father’s Day and Thanksgiving in which he thanked God for bringing Jerry into his life. The boys mother however, helped Sara Ganim recruit “Victims 3,4,5, and 7” and when those guys claimed some degree of abuse by Jerry, this young man, now known as “Victim 6” also accepted that he may have been groomed during that shower incident. However, he never claimed any sexual contact and did not claim Jerry ever did anything else inappropriate with him afterward. Jerry never did shower with him again. Also, according to Mark Pendergrast, he told “Victim 8” he was still questioning Sandusky’s guilt in January 2012, which was after the arrest and the subsequent media shitstorm, but felt his mother was pressuring him to turn on Jerry.