Stock Market Update (Where's Eduardo?)
- Thread starter bdgan
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Elon made his fortune taking other's ideas and then using government subsidies to sustain them. Then he pretended to turn on the government so he could get special treatment if/when Trump came into office. Then idiot Trump gave him power, and then took away some benefits ... and here we are. 2 moochers and shysters in a tiff ... and the absolute idiots who support them unsure which parent they want to spend Xmas with this year.
YEP,
The reader's digest version, your post works for me. Simplicity and to the point.
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I don't think Trump promotes perpetual war.Here is the big difference between the two parties. The reason I vote the way I do is based on taxes. One party gives me a better opportunity to take care of my family. The other takes more away to spend on other people.
I think a lot of politicians on both sides care about the public if for no other reason than that they care about their legacy. The problem is they have to follow the party line and suck up to donors & special interests if they want to stay in office.
Yes Musk is good at getting government assistance. Even in China.
Wrt taking other people's ideas who cares? That's a critical skill.
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I agree 100%.
Musk gutted Twitter and it was necessary. The difference is that he owned the company and had the authority to do that. He tried to initiate major cuts in our government but ran up against political opposition. I understand his frustration but he should understand how the system works.
IMO Musk was out of line taking such a shot at the big bill given how he acted just days earlier in the oval office. Trump is a counter puncher so once Musk took a shot at him he took a shot back. His personality doesn't allow him to take the high road. Both of them act like spoiled brats and it's a bad look for the nation.
Bump… looks like Elon is taking it from here.
But that’s what you MAGA people get for allowing a foreign billionaire immigrant into the White House. Now there’s two billionaires having a hissy fit about how to steal the rest of whatever little money and quality of life you have left. And your brains couldn’t handle being tricked. Have fun being poor.
But that’s what you MAGA people get for allowing a foreign billionaire immigrant into the White House. Now there’s two billionaires having a hissy fit about how to steal the rest of whatever little money and quality of life you have left. And your brains couldn’t handle being tricked. Have fun being poor.
Trump just had a press conference and when it went to questions, they were all about Elon Musk, his call to impeach Trump, his criticism of the tariffs, Epstein, etc. Trump just sat there silently and then motioned for the White House to cut the audio to the networks.
That’s your “transparent,” “free-speech” “president” cutting the mic to questions. You guys were tricked.
That’s your “transparent,” “free-speech” “president” cutting the mic to questions. You guys were tricked.
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Neither of them have stolen my money or quality of life.
Why are you such a victim?
Oh my bad, I thought the reason for putting a dictator in power was because Joe Biden took all of your money and quality of life. You suckled at the teat of a man who made YOU believe you were a victim so he could trick you into allowing this $hitshow.
Good job, genius.
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Another thing a number of you were tricked into was who does more spending. Notice how the curve of the blue bars softens as the term progresses while the red ones curl upward at a faster rate as the term progresses? I don’t have any illusions about democrats solving the deficit but this shows they’re at least muting its increase while republicans consistently let it get completely out of control.
Maybe Elon’s right, Trump’s just as phony as his first term. Use the Covid excuse then, if you must. What’s the excuse for the record deficit spending in the big beautiful bill this time?
having first hand experience, I can tell you that many, if not most, in Congress have little idea what they're voting on. But, on just seating "average" Americans in Congress...been to a Walmart recently?
Trumps numbers were tainted by Covid, as was Biden’s. Obama’s are horrible
Another thing a number of you were tricked into was who does more spending. Notice how the curve of the blue bars softens as the term progresses while the red ones curl upward at a faster rate as the term progresses? I don’t have any illusions about democrats solving the deficit but this shows they’re at least muting its increase while republicans consistently let it get completely out of control.
Maybe Elon’s right, Trump’s just as phony as his first term. Use the Covid excuse then, if you must. What’s the excuse for the record deficit spending in the big beautiful bill this time?
here's the thing...yes since the Clinton years, when the Congress cared about the deficits and debt, both parties have contributed to both. Now we can debate which is worse, but that's only debating on the edge. Fact is, our elected officials, both parties have been spending us into oblivion. So what's the problem? Is it too much spending, not high enough taxes, billionaires escaping their fair share? Or some combination of all of the above.
Another thing a number of you were tricked into was who does more spending. Notice how the curve of the blue bars softens as the term progresses while the red ones curl upward at a faster rate as the term progresses? I don’t have any illusions about democrats solving the deficit but this shows they’re at least muting its increase while republicans consistently let it get completely out of control.
Maybe Elon’s right, Trump’s just as phony as his first term. Use the Covid excuse then, if you must. What’s the excuse for the record deficit spending in the big beautiful bill this time?
The way our system is set up, and IMO has been this way since the great society 1964, it's who can promise more and give away more to the electorate. That's on both sides of the equation ie, lower taxes and more spending. That concept just doesn't work if you want balanced budgets.
There have been solutions recommended. The Graham- Rudman thing back in the 90's..the simpson bowles recommendation under Obama, but politicians don't want to take the hard decisions to bring revenues/expenditures under control.
So, Roard you're all In on Democrat policies (it seems). So I'll ask you the same questions I asked bear. What do you want to cut out of the budget to bring it into balance? Who do you want to tax more to increase revenues - billionaires? There may be 1-5 Americans who earn $1billion or more in a year. How much revenue will raising their taxes bring in?
And how would you change our political system? Can't get democrats to vote for social program cuts, can't get republicans to raise taxes. So whichever party is in power is dependent on an everyone in voting lockstep, or opposition members crossing the line in their votes.
It's easy to cast aspersions on one party or another on the deficits. But, IMO, that's totally counterproductive and misses the point. BOTH parties have been guilty of taking the easy way out. And unfortunately, there is not good end in sight without some really harsh measures.
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That one is good, and there are much better ones on X that are probably inappropriate to post here, particularly the ones about Liberals being “excited” about the feud.
Yeah, Republicans care as much about spending and the national debt as the Democrats care about the working man - not at all. Elon is floating an idea that a new political party is needed for the 80% middle. He may be right. He may be more capable than Ross Perot to spearhead a viable third-party to take out the D’s and R’s.
“Two kinds of people are staying on this beach—the dead and those who are going to die.” - Unknown
Please take some time today to reflect on this D-Day Anniversary.
Please take some time today to reflect on this D-Day Anniversary.
More bull💩 The curve slowed in the 90s because the Rs and Gingrich took full control of Congress. Pushed through Massive reforms….plural.
Another thing a number of you were tricked into was who does more spending. Notice how the curve of the blue bars softens as the term progresses while the red ones curl upward at a faster rate as the term progresses? I don’t have any illusions about democrats solving the deficit but this shows they’re at least muting its increase while republicans consistently let it get completely out of control.
Maybe Elon’s right, Trump’s just as phony as his first term. Use the Covid excuse then, if you must. What’s the excuse for the record deficit spending in the big beautiful bill this time?
W dealt with the dotcom bubble burst, 9/11 and resultant wars.
And look at the Obama/Pelosi reign of terror. Skyrocketed.
Then Trump was improving the economy until Covid hit. He also was saddled with more Pelosi-isms his third and fourth year.
And the graph doesn’t show Biden’s final year nor does it show the $2 trillion bill that was stopped by Sen Manchin. Nor does it show that Manchin forced cuts in other bills that were passed.
Manchin not backing Dems' $2T bill, potentially dooming it
Sen. Joe Manchin says he can't back his party’s signature $2 trillion social and environment bill. That would deal a seemingly fatal blow to President Joe Biden’s leading domestic initiative.
apnews.com
First of all, there’s over 900 billionaires in America right now. I’ve never said they have to earn over a billion per year. Second, I want a simple, fair tax system where everyone pays something and I want to to be commensurate on a curve with income. I don’t want to live in a tax system where everyone’s real rate varies and billionaires, especially, have the most access to credits, deductions, and loopholes that allow them to get by without paying. Trump used to brag about not having to pay taxes and—rightly—pointed out he wasn’t breaking laws, he was simply doing what the government allowed.
I bet you 80% of us would actually end up with a lower overall real tax rate if the wealthiest in America actually paid the rate they’re supposed to. That might spur real economic growth too when 80% of Americans now have more disposable income and only the smaller percentage of billionaires end up actually having to pay taxes.
Excuses 😂More bull💩 The curve slowed in the 90s because the Rs and Gingrich took full control of Congress. Pushed through Massive reforms….plural.
W dealt with the dotcom bubble burst, 9/11 and resultant wars.
And look at the Obama/Pelosi reign of terror. Skyrocketed.
Then Trump was improving the economy until Covid hit. He also was saddled with more Pelosi-isms his third and fourth year.
And the graph doesn’t show Biden’s final year nor does it show the $2 trillion bill that was stopped by Sen Manchin. Nor does it show that Manchin forced cuts in other bills that were passed.
Manchin not backing Dems' $2T bill, potentially dooming it
Sen. Joe Manchin says he can't back his party’s signature $2 trillion social and environment bill. That would deal a seemingly fatal blow to President Joe Biden’s leading domestic initiative.
The richest 1% earn roughly 22% of all income. What would be their fare share in taxes?
How about their actual tax bracket without reducing it to 0% in a lot of cases? 🤷
That’s what I’m saying, it’s only fair if everyone pays a consistent rate and it’s not some pay, some don’t, and everything in between.
Even with all those evil, unfair, immoral loopholes…..what percentage of tax revenue does the feds get from the top 1%?
ok, now I think you might just want to be argumentative...I'm not...just facts. So there are 900 billionaires in the US. We tax income at the federal level. Makes no difference how many people have $billion, there are likely less than 5 in any given tax year that earn that much.
The wealthiest in the country DO pay what they're supposed to. They follow the tax code and if they cheat, they should be punished. Trump followed the laws when paying taxes and like most of us he pays as small amount as the code requires. .What do you do every year, pay more than the tax code asks? Remember the Bernie Sanders quote about paying taxes "I pay what I'm supposed to". Why should anyone do more than follow the tax code, to include someone with $billion.
I know that you know that we have a progressive tax table. There are multiple rates depending on both status (married, head of household, single), and income. I would have thought you liked that. Although we have 40% or so of households that pay no income tax. And, I agree with you that everyone should pay something at the federal level.
Now if you want to have a discussion about changing the tax code, that's an entirely different story. Sure there are some deductions that IMO are questionable, but I don't make the code. Now if you want to make it about one party be it democrats or republicans I would debate. Sure republicans want to cut taxes. But, how many democrats are pushing for increases in the SALT deductions or the fight over carried interest? Why didn't democrats change the tax code during the Obama years when they were in control of the government? Why do democrats push credits for green energy; or for credits for elon's cars?
Why? I'll tell you why..in no small part, because as Trump said when he debated Hillary, democrats like all the deductions as much as republicans because the people that support both also take advantage of the tax code as written, not as you or I would like it to be.
"Raise the tax rate on billionaires" is a red herring that plays well as a sound bite, but really has no meaning in our existing tax code. So, sorry, as long as leaders, representatives, senators and presidents continue with the tax code, billionaires do pay what they're supposed to. Back to a flat tax as per one of your other posts?
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so you'd be for a flat tax on income? If yes, then on that point, you and I would agree.
Could you imagine how we could streamline the IRS ? Of course, we put an entire industry (tax preparation) out of business and at the same time do away with all the congressional social engineering.
What does that mean? What did MAGA people get? It seems to me they got somebody to identify waste, fraud, and abuse. They also got a temper tantrum that looks bad in the media but impacts nothing.
It doesn't matter what any of us think because a flat tax will never happen. Social engineering is what congress lives for.
Roar just says stuff while refusing to get into the details because he can't support his argument.
The fact that they're "volunteers" doesn't mean they aren't trained, and coordinated, sparky. There's a reason we have firefighters ... organized and on the ready ... and cops ... and not just random people with buckets of water and their penis substitutes to ensure our public safety. And folks who "stop by" to help do basic small stuff ... because they aren't capable of more ... you know, like the organized crews of public safety folks.
And I'm sorry if you have to sound out the words that you read ... that must be yet another side effect of getting repeatedly kicked in the head by horses that tell you "no means no."
Biden proposed a wealth tax increase on people with net worth >$100 million. He said it would generate $50 billion/yr of revenue. He also proposed $7.3 trillion of spending and a higher deficit.
A wealth tax on all assets would destroy the stock market, housing market, prohibit investments in expansion, and more.
Total lunacy.
Let’s start by getting clear on the basics—because frankly, your fixation on people “earning a billion dollars a year” is a distraction. You know full well that being a billionaire is about net worth, not annual income. The 900+ billionaires in the U.S. bring in tens or hundreds of millions through capital gains, dividends, stock options, real estate, and business income annually. They live well—flying private, buying property, acquiring businesses—because money is coming in. And yet, plenty of them pay a far lower rate than a middle-class household, and in some years, nothing at all.
The Facts:
- IRS data (not partisan think tanks) has confirmed that high-net-worth individuals regularly pay 8-12% effective tax rates, and in many cases zero.
- A bipartisan report by the Joint Committee on Taxation has acknowledged that the effective tax rates on capital gains and carried interest allow ultra-wealthy individuals to legally avoid paying anything close to the top marginal rate.
- Meanwhile, a teacher, farmer, or small business owner might be paying 12% to 24% with far fewer tools to reduce that burden.
So no, saying “they follow the law” doesn’t somehow make the result just. It just proves the law is broken.
Now let’s talk about the rates themselves. We have a progressive tax table on paper, but in practice, it’s all over the place. Some billionaires pay less than the average plumber. Why? Because we don’t treat all income the same. If you’re paid a salary, your taxes are taken right out of your check. If your money comes from capital gains, stock options, or pass-through entities, you play by a different set of rules—often at far lower rates, and often at your leisure.
Here’s where I stand: All income should be taxed the same. If you make $1 million, it shouldn’t matter if it came from a paycheck, an investment, or a real estate deal—you should pay the rate that applies. You shouldn’t be able to zero out your tax liability with deductions and deferrals.
And no—I'm not saying people should “pay more than the law requires.” The solution is to create a tax code where people actually pay according to the bracket they’re in—across the board. Not 37% in theory, and 8% in practice.
If we must keep deductions, fine. That's not my preference, but there should be a floor—tie it to the bracket. You shouldn’t be able to deduct your way into oblivion. My recommendation would be to set the floor at two brackets lower, or something like that.
Because as it stands now, we’ve got teachers, police officers, and construction workers paying higher real tax rates than billionaires. That’s not a partisan talking point. That’s structural unfairness, and if you really care about merit, responsibility, and basic fairness, it should offend you regardless of political party.
This isn’t about punishing success. It’s about fixing a system where success can legally buy a path out of contributing to the same country that made that success possible.
Something like this would honestly be a dream scenario. I’m not for a pure flat tax, but I do support a simplified tiered system—something like 5%, 10%, 15%, and 20%. Simple brackets, based strictly on annual income, with no deductions, no credits, no loopholes. You’d know exactly what you owe, just based on what you made. No 70-page instructions, no gimmicks, no armies of CPAs.
And yes—abolish the tax prep industry as we know it. Stop using the tax code for social engineering. Every time a new administration comes in, the tax code becomes a battlefield for ideology. It’s inefficient and unpredictable.
And here’s the kicker: If you actually got the wealthiest Americans to just pay a real 20% on their income, you could lower their top rate from 37% and still nearly double what the government collects from them. Imagine what that would do for the deficit!
We could lower the real tax rate for most working and middle-class Americans from 12–24% down to 10–15%, while still increasing federal revenue—simply by ensuring billionaires actually pay a flat 20%, just 5-10% more than the average American.
In this model, everyone wins:
- The government gets more predictable, stable revenue.
- Working and middle-class Americans get lower, simpler taxes.
- The wealthy still keep 80% of their income, but finally contribute proportionally—not symbolically.
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A wealth tax, especially in the form of taxes on unrealized gains, would be an absolutely atrocious, economy-wrecking idea. The democrats who tried to lobby for that a couple years ago were really, really stupid for even thinking such a thing, letting alone proposing it.
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