Tampering

[crockster]

Willie had an eye opening show about college wrestlers being tampered by boosters to get kids from other teams into the transfer portal. He said AAs and national champions have been contacted, including PS kids(RBY?). All of this is, of course, is an NCAA infraction. Apparently Iowa and Michigan are being reported for these infractions and possibly others. D1 coaches are obviously very upset, including Cael. This is a lot more than just Real Woods. Steve Buchanan from Wyoming was one name mentioned. Its a mess out there right now..

 

[RealMicah]

This doesn’t make sense, I thought Penn State was the only one that bought championships.

 

[82bordeaux]

This doesn’t make sense, I thought Penn State was the only one that bought championships.

The operative word being Championships. Iowa and UM buy medicare liability.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Surprised?
Lol

 

[baccafarmer]

Willie had an eye opening show about college wrestlers being tampered by boosters to get kids from other teams into the transfer portal. He said AAs and national champions have been contacted, including PS kids(RBY?). All of this is, of course, is an NCAA infraction. Apparently Iowa and Michigan are being reported for these infractions and possibly others. D1 coaches are obviously very upset, including Cael. This is a lot more than just Real Woods. Steve Buchanan from Wyoming was one name mentioned. Its a mess out there right now..

There are literally hundreds of opportunities to dance around tampering in the college wrestling ecosystem. Camps, freestyle events, and NIL consortiums are but a few of the venues that allow for informal discussion of “potential opportunities”. I would like to think that good coaches engage “portal people” in a way that ferrets out those who have received unauthorized inducements from boosters. Do I think that this always happens ….. I do not!

 

[mcpat]

The operative word being Championships. Iowa and UM buy medicare liability.

Classic; well done!

 

[mcpat]

I’m with @johnstownsteel on what is happening. I’m for athletes being treated fairly, but even professional sports have anti-tampering rules regarding approaching players under contract.

The floodgates have been opened, even if by good intentions and even if some of what is happening is within the rules.

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

The operative word being Championships. Iowa and UM buy medicare liability.

I beg to differ. If you look at the HWC 501(c)(3) 990s, they appear to spend little to nothing on insurance, especially when compared to the NLWC. 😑

 

[GogglesPaizano]

How does TnT discussing a deal with Woods at the national tourney not smack of tampering? If not, simply inappropriate timing even if Woods reached out, yuck.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

How does TnT discussing a deal with Woods at the national tourney not smack of tampering? If not, simply inappropriate timing even if Woods reached out, yuck.

Is this fact or speculation?

I've not heard that one or both of the Brands Bros approached Woods at the tournament to talk NILs.

I could see Woods approaching many to discuss his plans after graduating Stanford in the spring, unfettered to transfer wherever under whatever circumstance.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Is this fact or speculation?

I've not heard that one or both of the Brands Bros approached Woods at the tournament to talk NILs.

I could see Woods approaching many to discuss his plans after graduating Stanford in the spring, unfettered to transfer wherever under whatever circumstance.

Per Willie - that's where first contact occurred. Unclear if it was Iowa or Woods initiated.

 

[82bordeaux]

Per Willie - that's where first contact occurred. Unclear if it was Iowa or Woods initiated.

But did he say TNT? I don't think so.

 

[mcpat]

But did he say TNT? I don't think so.

It was TBS, I think. Or possibly A&E. A cable channel, regardless.

 

[El-Jefe]

It was TBS, I think. Or possibly A&E. A cable channel, regardless.

Skinemax. Wait, that was Downey, never mind.

 

[smalls103]

to be clear, i never said TNT talked to Woods at NCAA's. i don't believe that is true.

i may have said people were talking about it at NCAA's.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

But did he say TNT? I don't think so.

Since you listened firsthand, quickly reported it, and were engaged in the Rokfin chat, I am going to go out on a limb and weight your credibility above @GogglesPaizano.

If Woods initiates conversations with other teams' Coaches or University supporters and they largely remain silent or respond with something vague like, "This isn't the time for such a discussion, but I'm sure everything will work out for you." then honestly I don't see what's to be proved.

Again, it was common knowledge Real Woods would be a "free agent" come spring.

 

[johnstownsteel]

I’ve already had several coaches tell me that back door talks happen and deals made to rank their kids higher to get them at large bids. And we’ve all seen obvious ducking to protect kids seeds and also coaches trying to give/take :01 med ffs so their kids can get in the minimum amount of matches to qualify. This tells me there are coaches out there that are scum and don’t give a shit what’s best for the sport. No, they are into what’s best for them and their program.

So basically, we can rightly assume programs will be poaching and wheeling and dealing with kids against the rules. I see Iowa was brought up. It would be very easy for me to go off and call Brands a dirt bag and call them cheaters. Their fans did that to Cael for years and years now and I went through a couple a handfuls of usernames on HR defending him and his program. I’m not stooping to their level. Why? Because unlike them , I’m not going to disparage any program a/o coach without having proof or knowing for a fact exactly what is happening. I love the sport too much to do it. And also, if I did do that, I’d be a huge hypocrite that was nothing but all talk over on their board.

 

[crockster]

the important point is boosters are contacting kids to get them into the portal to transfer with the promise of financial NIL gain . No one knows if TNT or Michigan coach knew about a booster contacting kids, but Is apparently happening a lot right now . Willie implied other schools could be involved with this as well. Poaching a small school’s AA , Wyoming’s steve Buchanan , or any AA or PS National Champ is really wrong by illegal means. If a kid wants to transfer , that’s fine. This all about inducing to transfer. If it’s happening in wrestling , I can only imagine what is happening in FB or BB:

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

I doubt anything will come of this. Too much deniablility. Unless a "third party" agrees to go on record and admit they approached an athlete at the behest of a program.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Lets just portal everyone and start from square one.

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

@tikk10 Do you think schools could sue the offending booster? Hypothetical, say the owner of Corn Crib Motors offers a bag to Jonathan Millner to transfer to Iowa, could App State have any hope in a suit against Corn Crib?

 

[tikk10]

@tikk10 Do you think schools could sue the offending booster? Hypothetical, say the owner of Corn Crib Motors offers a bag to Jonathan Millner to transfer to Iowa, could App State have any hope in a suit against Corn Crib?

I think School X would have trouble showing "standing" to sue School Y over a lost recruit.

I think enforcement needs to come from the NCAA. I had assumed from the start of NIL that the NCAA would be quite interested in defining where the line is, yet I'm hearing story after story of what appears to me as overt circumvention by boosters. Maybe the NCAA will jump in to police before long, still, but there are enough examples already that it should be easy to make an example of someone for everyone else's benefit.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

@tikk10 Do you think schools could sue the offending booster? Hypothetical, say the owner of Corn Crib Motors offers a bag to Jonathan Millner to transfer to Iowa, could App State have any hope in a suit against Corn Crib?

What could be the damages being sued for, and what would its corresponding restitution be?

It's hard for me to imagine sufficient damages to justify a suit. Then again, maybe a university has a bunch of lawyers available who are twittling their thumbs just waiting for something to do.

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

I think School X would have trouble showing "standing" to sue School Y over a lost recruit.

I think enforcement needs to come from the NCAA. I had assumed from the start of NIL that the NCAA would be quite interested in defining where the line is, yet I'm hearing story after story of what appears to me as over circumvention by boosters. Maybe the NCAA will jump in to police before long, still, but there are enough examples already that it should be easy to make an example of someone for everyone else's benefit.

And the word on the street seems to be that the NCAA doesn't give a shit. They fought hard against NIL, now it's everyone else's problem.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

How does the NCAAs application of NIL as a policy whose details are largely left to the locales factor in?

Would any suit depend on where the "offense" takes place?

Would any suit depend on the laws governing a particular school?

In what jurisdiction would the suit be filed?

Seems to me that until something else more uniform is put into place, any prior NILs will be grandfathered in as OK.

Get 'em while they're hot.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I doubt anything will come of this. Too much deniablility. Unless a "third party" agrees to go on record and admit they approached an athlete at the behest of a program.

A good troll would be an athlete who knows he’s a target for poachers having his finger poised to hit a record button on every incoming call. “Hey, Mr. Novak - thanks for calling … no I’m sure Iowa City is nice this time of year and the chance to workout with Vince Turk and the Bull is quite enticing, but I’m happy here. … Sure, I get it, you’ve got deep pockets, but I weigh 180 walking around and you want me to transfer somewhere where only jockey-sized guys have a chance at titles?”

 

[Chickenman Testa]

@tikk10 Do you think schools could sue the offending booster? Hypothetical, say the owner of Corn Crib Motors offers a bag to Jonathan Millner to transfer to Iowa, could App State have any hope in a suit against Corn Crib?

Tortious interference is a possible avenue of approach

 

[Chickenman Testa]

And the word on the street seems to be that the NCAA doesn't give a shit. They fought hard against NIL, now it's everyone else's problem.

The chaos does help them. In a childish way, they can say we were keeping you from anarchy

 

[nittinsc]

I think School X would have trouble showing "standing" to sue School Y over a lost recruit.

I think enforcement needs to come from the NCAA. I had assumed from the start of NIL that the NCAA would be quite interested in defining where the line is, yet I'm hearing story after story of what appears to me as over circumvention by boosters. Maybe the NCAA will jump in to police before long, still, but there are enough examples already that it should be easy to make an example of someone for everyone else's benefit.

Wouldn't a recruit be different than a non-portaled athlete already on a team? Do the different state laws or lack thereof play a factor?

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

A good troll would be an athlete who knows he’s a target for poachers having his finger poised to hit a record button on every incoming call. “Hey, Mr. Novak - thanks for calling … no I’m sure Iowa City is nice this time of year and the chance to workout with Vince Turk and the Bull is quite enticing, but I’m happy here. … Sure, I get it, you’ve got deep pockets, but I weigh 180 walking around and you want me to transfer somewhere where only jockey-sized guys have a chance at titles?”

That would be interesting. However, I believe in some states it is illegal to record another without informing them, so that could be a challenge.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

How does the NCAAs application of NIL as a policy whose details are largely left to the locales factor in?

Would any suit depend on where the "offense" takes place?

Would any suit depend on the laws of a particular school?

In what jurisdiction would the suit be filed?

Seems to me that until something else more uniform is put into place, any prior NILs will be grandfathered in as OK.

Get 'em while they're hot.

As Willie noted, tampering goes beyond even a liberal interpretation of the NIL - indeed, they are separate discussions. If there are no contact rules re: the portal being broken, then the analysis is pretty simple.

Crazy offseason drama is crazy

 

[tikk10]

Tortious interference is a possible avenue of approach

In theory, but damages seem pretty speculative. I just imagine courts are going to be extremely wary of jumping into recruiting disputes while the NCAA stands off to the side and does nothing.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

The chaos does help them. In a childish way, they can say we were keeping you from anarchy

As the Supreme Court opened the can worms, I expect the NCAA to largely sit on its hands hoping for Congressional action, as antitrust is at issue.

I don't think that kind of Congressional action is a priority or likely to pass, so I believe we will be watching things unfold for a good while.

 

[nittinsc]

That would be interesting. However,, I believe in some states it is illegal to record another without informing them, so that could be a challenge.

https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/

Most states are one-party consent. PA is all-party consent.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I wonder if the crack wrestling journalists like Cody Goodwin and Chad Leistikow are all over this story.

Probably working on a 3 part story on Moriah Marinelli and her infectious support for the Hawks

 

[nittinsc]

As the Supreme Court opened the can worms, I expect the NCAA to largely sit on its hands hoping for Congressional action, as antitrust is at issue.

I don't think that kind of Congressional action is a priority or likely to pass, so I believe we will be watching things unfold for a good while.

They have stated this:

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2021/6/30/ncaa-adopts-interim-name-image-and-likeness-policy.aspx

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/

Most states are one-party consent. PA is all-party consent.

It appears CA is as well.

 

[El-Jefe]

I wonder if the crack wrestling journalists like Cody Goodwin and Chad Leistikow are all over this story.

Probably working on a 3 part story on Moriah Marinelli and her infectious support for the Hawks

Mineo is putting the screws to Fellers and it's pretty funny.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Tip for Potential Booster $ Bagmen:

When speaking with target:

• Do so only where there are expectations for confidentiality and privacy.
• If by phone, only call from a two party consent state.
• If by phone, only call the target after positive confirmation they are in a two party consent state.

Use of email and text is right out, as neither provides a reasonable expectation for privacy and both are generally recorded.

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

So basically we need a frustrated Baltimore homicide detective to break chain of command and appeal directly to a judge he is friendly with, and get a wire tap on Tom Brands and Sean Bormet.