Tenn sues the NCAA

[Obliviax]

and the NCAA is screwed. As I understand it, and I haven't looked all that closely, the NCAA is talking about reprimanding Tenn for the details behind NIL deal between a booster and a player. Tenn says they had nothing to do with the transaction and cannot be held accountable. How can Tenn manage a transaction they had nothing to do with?

NIL is the wild, wild west and isn't a business model that will work. Just another brick in the wall to players unionizing and the universities negotiating a CBA. The only question is will this CBA be the NCAA or some other "super league" of college football/basketball teams? My point is that schools like Troy or Kent have vastly different needs for players and boosters than Michigan and Georgia et all. Will that end up creating two different governing bodies?

Did the NCAA pick a fight with Tennessee that it can't win?

Tennessee chancellor Donde Plowman fired back at the NCAA after meeting with NCAA investigators on Monday in a case involving NIL.

www.on3.com

 

[rrdd2021]

Boosters were brought into play with NIL - not that hard to figure out. It's "anything goes now" and Tenn will win this one

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

This was inevitable.

 

[LandoComando]

Yupp this will determine that players can't be limited on being paid for NIL and anything goes. The NCAA makes things worse every time they get involved.

 

[Sooner Lion]

The players need the NCAA because the public has zero interest in following an NFL farm league. Time to take a stand. I'd love to see the Universities apply their admission standards to ALL students.

 

[rrdd2021]

Yupp this will determine that players can't be limited on being paid for NIL and anything goes. The NCAA makes things worse every time they get involved.

An understatement. The NCAA have to be the biggest bunch of blockheads out there

 

[Obliviax]

The players need the NCAA because the public has zero interest in following an NFL farm league. Time to take a stand. I'd love to see the Universities apply their admission standards to ALL students.

I really don't agree.

I do agree that the NFL doesn't need or want farm league. I suspect one of three things will happen:

1. The NCAA is replaced by a new entity for power five schools who go off and rewrite their own rules. Probably the number one rule will be player salary and that will be done along with some kind of collective bargaining agreement with the players union.
2. The NCAA will continue to exist but won't resemble what we have today. it will be to regulate a level playing field for a fixed number of premier sports schools. it will look like #1 above along with a player union and a CBA. There will be a second and, perhaps, tertiary division(s) for football schools that can't compete for the national championship but kids can jump from those divisions to the power five division for fun and prizes.
3. The spring football league starts to take high school kids (or some other entity) who will allow for pro-players who graduate from high school. Today, the NFL's CBA with the player is that your senior HS class has to be three years graduated. So you have to be a college Jr, have your degree or equivalent. This would make the spring league, or whatever league, an NFL feeder system. It doesn't have to be affiliated with the NFL but the better players will jump to the NFL. Players who don't make NFL rosters will go to this league. Basically, you'll have the MLB system except the minor leagues won't be owned by the NFL. They'll just compete for players with universities.

 

[Nbergbuck]

The players need the NCAA because the public has zero interest in following an NFL farm league. Time to take a stand. I'd love to see the Universities apply their admission standards to ALL students.

They do that and OSU's football program is screwed. For a non-athlete it takes a 28-29 on the ACT and a 3.7-3.8 GPA to get in. OSU might be left with 2-3 players.

 

[rrdd2021]

They do that and OSU's football program is screwed. For a non-athlete it takes a 28-29 on the ACT and a 3.7-3.8 GPA to get in. OSU might be left with 2-3 players.

Uh, not just OSU but MANY major football machines including many in the SEC. And let's be honest, you can go through almost any major football power roster and ask would many of these kids be in college if it wasn't for their athletic ability? I think we all know the answer to that. That BS that "we do things the right way" that you hear coming from many schools is comical in today's CF

 

[LMTLION]

The players need the NCAA because the public has zero interest in following an NFL farm league. Time to take a stand. I'd love to see the Universities apply their admission standards to ALL students.

I agree that the interest and corresponding dollars generated by college football is solely due to the fan/alumni interest in their schools. A minor league would generate a very small fraction of interest vs cfb. Attendance for a Harrisburg or Scranton minor league team would be 5k-10k. TV coverage would be local. There are no nationally televised games or 100k stadiums in that setup. It is a flop in comparison.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

An understatement. The NCAA have to be the biggest bunch of blockheads out there

Blockheads doesn't even come close to describing these asshats.

 

[rrdd2021]

They do that and OSU's football program is screwed. For a non-athlete it takes a 28-29 on the ACT and a 3.7-3.8 GPA to get in. OSU might be left with 2-3 players.

Since this thread is about NIL, I just read on the OSU O-Zone site that one of OSU's NIL sources - The Foundation - raised $1 million dollars just last week from fan donations. That's just staggering.

 

[Obliviax]

 

[LandoComando]

The players need the NCAA because the public has zero interest in following an NFL farm league. Time to take a stand. I'd love to see the Universities apply their admission standards to ALL students.

What? This is a great example of something the NCAA can't do. NIL is open. It can't be closed. No school apply the same standards to all applicants.

 

[rrdd2021]

What? This is a great example of something the NCAA can't do. NIL is open. It can't be closed. No school apply the same standards to all applicants.

Simply the rich get richer. Totally out of control.

 

[LandoComando]

Simply the rich get richer. Totally out of control.

I get it--I still believe it's always been that way. Just people are accepting that reality more now because it's obvious.

 

[baircub1!]

I really don't agree.

I do agree that the NFL doesn't need or want farm league. I suspect one of three things will happen:

1. The NCAA is replaced by a new entity for power five schools who go off and rewrite their own rules. Probably the number one rule will be player salary and that will be done along with some kind of collective bargaining agreement with the players union.
2. The NCAA will continue to exist but won't resemble what we have today. it will be to regulate a level playing field for a fixed number of premier sports schools. it will look like #1 above along with a player union and a CBA. There will be a second and, perhaps, tertiary division(s) for football schools that can't compete for the national championship but kids can jump from those divisions to the power five division for fun and prizes.
3. The spring football league starts to take high school kids (or some other entity) who will allow for pro-players who graduate from high school. Today, the NFL's CBA with the player is that your senior HS class has to be three years graduated. So you have to be a college Jr, have your degree or equivalent. This would make the spring league, or whatever league, an NFL feeder system. It doesn't have to be affiliated with the NFL but the better players will jump to the NFL. Players who don't make NFL rosters will go to this league. Basically, you'll have the MLB system except the minor leagues won't be owned by the NFL. They'll just compete for players with universities.

Understand what you are saying...but how would this ultimately effect the TV contracts/ Thats where all the money really is...do consumers want to see semi pro teams ? even if they represent their schools ? I don't know the answer but there has always been this vision of "amateurism" and "college kids competing against college kids" that has had a certain draw..obviously perception vs reality..but not sure fringe fans will have much desire to watch anymore..?

 

[Obliviax]

Understand what you are saying...but how would this ultimately effect the TV contracts/ Thats where all the money really is...do consumers want to see semi pro teams ? even if they represent their schools ? I don't know the answer but there has always been this vision of "amateurism" and "college kids competing against college kids" that has had a certain draw..obviously perception vs reality..but not sure fringe fans will have much desire to watch anymore..?

What I am saying is that the players will be professionals one way or the other.

Given the players are pros, what to do next? The schools will have to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement which will outline what players get paid, how that is determined and what their xfer options are. There will be a top tier of school that makes a lot of money and they'll have to figure out how to share a portion of that money to the players.

After the top tier, you have a secondary group of schools that don't get the TV money and big paydays. can they be included in the same CBA as the top tier above? I have no idea. The dynamics may be far too different as there is no way the left guard at North Dakota State can be paid the same as the QB for Georgia. My guess is that schools will be allotted money based on league and performance. What they do with that money is their business. Top performers move up, the others move down.

But I have no idea, just speculating. The only thing I am sure of is that players will be professional employees before too long. Within three years is my guess.

 

[Sooner Lion]

What? This is a great example of something the NCAA can't do. NIL is open. It can't be closed. No school apply the same standards to all applicants.

You missed my point. You cannot get NIL Money if you can't get admitted to a University. The whole system is a sham. 80% of these athletes have zero interest in going to college to learn. Gotta weed them out in MHO. Get back to what Joe was all about. Education first.

 

[LandoComando]

You missed my point. You cannot get NIL Money if you can't get admitted to a University. The whole system is a sham. 80% of these athletes have zero interest in going to college to learn. Gotta weed them out in MHO. Get back to what Joe was all about. Education first.

Then collegiate sports are dead. Don't pretend everyone that went to Penn State under Joe qualified. And if you think no one under Joe was there just for football you're wrong. Most football players under Joe would have never gone to college if it wasn't to play football.

 

[diontechristmas]

Blockheads doesn't even come close to describing these asshats.

They are, but their hands are completely tied as they keep losing lawsuits. The Supreme Court has ruled that NIL and transfers are protected under anti-trust laws.

At this point it would literally take an act of congress to clarify laws to allow the NCAA to have any power to enforce NIL or transfer rules.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

They are, but their hands are completely tied as they keep losing lawsuits. The Supreme Court has ruled that NIL and transfers are protected under anti-trust laws.

At this point it would literally take an act of congress to clarify laws to allow the NCAA to have any power to enforce NIL or transfer rules.

They lose lawsuits because they are impotent by their own inaction or over action in the past at the demands of the conference heads. They tied their own hands.

 

[diontechristmas]

They lose lawsuits because they are impotent by their own inaction or over action in the past at the demands of the conference heads. They tied their own hands.

Untrue, they lost because the Supreme Court ruled antitrust laws were being violated. How can they control federal law.

Also, the NCAA only has power because the member schools agree to its bylaws. The schools are the NCAA, the organization impartially enforces the agreed upon rules (allegedly). But if the rules they wish to implement are in violation of federal law they of course have no recourse.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Untrue, they lost because the Supreme Court ruled antitrust laws were being violated. How can they control federal law.

Also, the NCAA only has power because the member schools agree to its bylaws. The schools are the NCAA, the organization impartially enforces the agreed upon rules (allegedly). But if the rules they wish to implement are in violation of federal law they of course have no recourse.

Who had the ability to avoid the Supreme Court ruling by no treating the athletes as slaves or indentured servants. Seriously, your argument is pure Fairy Tale gibberish.

 

[diontechristmas]

Who had the ability to avoid the Supreme Court ruling by no treating the athletes as slaves or indentured servants. Seriously, your argument is pure Fairy Tale gibberish.

This makes no sense at all, and I don’t even know what your argument is at this point.

What is a fact, and my original point, is that NIL and transfer portal rules are unenforceable, as courts have ruled restrictions are in violation of anti trust laws. This would be true regardless of anything the NCAA did or didn’t do prior. The NCAA had absolutely no way to “avoid the Supreme Court ruling”. They got sued. The case was elevated to the Supreme Court. They lost and have no legal authority to restrict NIL or transfer portal activities. These are indisputable facts, end of story.

 

[LandoComando]

This makes no sense at all, and I don’t even know what your argument is at this point.

What is a fact, and my original point, is that NIL and transfer portal rules are unenforceable, as courts have ruled restrictions are in violation of anti trust laws. This would be true regardless of anything the NCAA did or didn’t do prior. The NCAA had absolutely no way to “avoid the Supreme Court ruling”. They got sued. The case was elevated to the Supreme Court. They lost and have no legal authority to restrict NIL or transfer portal activities. These are indisputable facts, end of story.

I think he's saying if they would have paid them decades ago but we'd still have ended up here regardless

 

[PSUWrestlingFanSince2011]

I hope Tennessee gets the death penalty

 

[Obliviax]

Who had the ability to avoid the Supreme Court ruling by no treating the athletes as slaves or indentured servants. Seriously, your argument is pure Fairy Tale gibberish.

the NCAA tried to hang onto the golden goose for as long as they could. I don't know if they knew it was coming or had legal advisors tell them they had a good case but I knew it was coming at least 15 years ago when I was invited to sit in on a sports law symposium at Harvard. This is where I met Michael McCann. I recall coming home and posting about CTE and people got angry with me.

Regardless, in hindsight, the NCAA had a chance to head this off by allowing the players to unionize and then negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. We may not like it, as fans, but it would be stable. today we have the wild, wild west dumpster fire and who knows how much damage it will be before the powers that be decide sea change is in order.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

the NCAA tried to hand onto the golden goose for as long as they could. I don't know if they knew it was coming or had legal advisors tell them they had a good case but I knew it was coming at least 15 years ago when I was invited to sit in on a sports law symposium at Harvard. This is where I met Michael McCann. I recall coming home and posting about CTE and people got angry with me.

Regardless, in hindsight, the NCAA had a chance to head this off by allowing the players to unionize and then negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. We may not like it, as fans, but it would be stable. today we have the wild, wild west dumpster fire and who knows how much damage it will be before the powers that be decide sea change is in order.

Exactly. Many fans echoed over and over again that the players got a free education. Well many players around the nation didn't sniff an education and made millionaires out of coaches and administrators while proliferating overhead.

I too believe the answer lies in a collective bargaining agreement. Many fans will not like it but how many like it the way it is now?

 

[Obliviax]

Exactly. Many fans echoed over and over again that the players got a free education. Well many players around the nation didn't sniff an education and made millionaires out of coaches and administrators while proliferating overhead.

I too believe the answer lies in a collective bargaining agreement. Many fans will not like it but how many like it the way it is now?

Agree. And I went to a small school that featured engineering. One of my good friends was a freshman FG kicker when I was an RA and a Jr. In fact, I sponsored his citizenship and he went off to become a lead engineer at Dahlgren Navy Research lab heading up the Pulse Power and Rail Gun research. He was the first soccer style FG kicker I ever knew. He missed two extra points in HS and his Freshman year broke the school record for xp made streak, make xp in a season and total points scored. He missed two FGs all season and one xp (but it was a bad snap and hold on a rainy day). Anyway, a lab conflicted with spring practice. The coach told him it was football or engineering and he quit the football team. The majority of players ended up with physical education majors if they graduated at all. The time and effort spent playing football usurped their ability to stay in a meaningful major. So even if you went to get an education, you were encouraged to get a side degree that was close to meaningless.

 

[diontechristmas]

the NCAA tried to hang onto the golden goose for as long as they could. I don't know if they knew it was coming or had legal advisors tell them they had a good case but I knew it was coming at least 15 years ago when I was invited to sit in on a sports law symposium at Harvard. This is where I met Michael McCann. I recall coming home and posting about CTE and people got angry with me.

Regardless, in hindsight, the NCAA had a chance to head this off by allowing the players to unionize and then negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. We may not like it, as fans, but it would be stable. today we have the wild, wild west dumpster fire and who knows how much damage it will be before the powers that be decide sea change is in order.

But you know that treating athletes as employees creates a whole new set of issues, including workman’s comp. Probably 98% of NCAA athletes are making no money for their school, and this includes many programs at even P4 schools. Isn’t the issue how to segment and pay only the athletes in revenue producing programs, legally?

Most college athletic programs lose significant money, and I can’t justify athletes being paid while “working” for a failing “business”. Not I don’t think non-revenue producing programs are a failure, anything but. However, if college athletes want to be treated as pro’s the reality is they don’t get paid if their endeavor does not produce revenue.

 

[Obliviax]

But you know that treating athletes as employees creates a whole new set of issues, including workman’s comp. Probably 98% of NCAA athletes are making no money for their school, and this includes many programs at even P4 schools. Isn’t the issue how to segment and pay only the athletes in revenue producing programs, legally?

Most college athletic programs lose significant money, and I can’t justify athletes being paid while “working” for a failing “business”. Not I don’t think non-revenue producing programs are a failure, anything but. However, if college athletes want to be treated as pro’s the reality is they don’t get paid if their endeavor does not produce revenue.

yep. you are spot on. and this is one of the reasons why the NCAA has been fighting it. But it is inevitable as the lack of a CBO will kill the sport as we know it today. And it will have to be two or multi-tiered, as you say. the paradigms for tOSU, UM and PSU is vastly different than Ohio U, Kent and Wake Forest.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

But you know that treating athletes as employees creates a whole new set of issues, including workman’s comp. Probably 98% of NCAA athletes are making no money for their school, and this includes many programs at even P4 schools. Isn’t the issue how to segment and pay only the athletes in revenue producing programs, legally?

Most college athletic programs lose significant money, and I can’t justify athletes being paid while “working” for a failing “business”. Not I don’t think non-revenue producing programs are a failure, anything but. However, if college athletes want to be treated as pro’s the reality is they don’t get paid if their endeavor does not produce revenue.

It is not making money but how much they spend on expanded staff, facilities, coaches assistants.. Please cut the crap the players brought in revenue and the universities burned it up...

 

[diontechristmas]

It is not making money but how much they spend on expanded staff, facilities, coaches assistants.. Please cut the crap the players brought in revenue and the universities burned it up...

Of course they spent it, they need to support all the money losing sports. I don’t like universities sponsoring professional sports teams, but it will happen and nobody cares what I think. I’m not even arguing against it as I don’t have a good counter.

Here’s the question, would a second tier football league be anywhere near as popular without the ties to universities? I say no way. Many of us love college football at least partially because it represents our school or state. Take that away and you have the place where up and coming but not the best players play.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Of course they spent it, they need to support all the money losing sports. I don’t like universities sponsoring professional sports teams, but it will happen and nobody cares what I think. I’m not even arguing against it as I don’t have a good counter.

Here’s the question, would a second tier football league be anywhere near as popular without the ties to universities? I say no way. Many of us love college football at least partially because it represents our school or state. Take that away and you have the place where up and coming but not the best players play.

You are ignorant of facts and spin BS like a silk worm into false facts. Only the largest Universities carry a lot of second tier money losing sports. Why the hell should slave football players who spend 4 years in the SEC leaving a University without a degree or the ability to complete 5th grade mathematical or literacy tests carry the load for your preppy kindred playing a non revenue sport at a mismanaged college or University.

Stop making my argument for me.

 

[87 Penn St8]

Early in my relationship with my now wife of 30+ years I had to make a choice, Fall is her favorite season and she said that "you can't monopolize the whole weekend watching football on tv."

Since that was how I'd spent most of my time all of my life in Autumn it was intriguing. What else could you do? I ended up picking Saturday football and was given 100% latitude for Penn State games. This has never been an issue. Typically I'd start at noon and fall asleep viewing college games.

Over the past few NIL years I've been finding myself watching less on Saturday and more on Sunday. Just like the one and done basketball "Diaper Dandies" soured my love of college hoops, the same is happening with football.

At least the NFL is organized and regulated. No player is truly committed to any team or city as they will follow the opportunity and $. They are mercenaries.

Maybe the past was never as pure as we may allow ourselves to believe, but I do not like this NIL/Portal-arama version of college football. I even missed 3 PSU games this year for other plans, and didn't feel cheated.

If you totally take the "college" out of college football I'm out. And that is where this is going...

 

[Obliviax]

Yikes. Did I say five years? His about fine months?