The Problem with our Passing Game...

[PSU1983PHAN]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game
- OL Blocking. But even against Buffalo, the O Line was blocking and our passing game still sucked. There were a couple of drops, but we only had 100+ yards passing.
- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.
- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Lack of TE use. We improved on this against Buffalo, and we need to continue to do this going forward. The TE #'s have been pathetic under Donovan.
- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field.
- Lack of roll out passes. Saw a couple of these on Saturday, which was encouraging.

 

[PhillipintheValley]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game

- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.

I think people misunderstand the reasons for this play action. It is not just a fake for the play that is being run. It is more to do with the time they actually do run the end-around. The defense sees that action several times and doesn't bite when it is a fake. When we do hand it off, they might be a step slower to react and that might be the difference for our guy making it to the edge. It is done to set up the future just as much as it is to fool the defense when it is a fake.

- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
I agree in general. Given our difficulty sustaining blocks, we should be using more quick developing plays. However, like anything else, we can't become too predictable, so we still need to throw longer developing passes, especially to stretch the field.

- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field.

Where have I heard this before? It's like the JoePa days when he refused to throw over the middle. I guess two years of OB's offense had us all spoiled. I do agree with you. We don't work the middle of the field. TEs, crossing patterns, and slants are virtually non existent.

 

[Obliviax]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game
- OL Blocking. But even against Buffalo, the O Line was blocking and our passing game still sucked. There were a couple of drops, but we only had 100+ yards passing. first half was in a driving rain storm. So there's that.
- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.
- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Lack of TE use. We improved on this against Buffalo, and we need to continue to do this going forward. The TE #'s have been pathetic under Donovan. Two drops would have been two TD's and a lot of yardage. That would have changed our perception of TE usage for Buffalo. Vs Temple, our TE fell down on an important third down where he would have been wide open.
- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field. Agree...odd we don't throw over the middle. No RB's either.
- Lack of roll out passes. Saw a couple of these on Saturday, which was encouraging.

They were largely ineffective and the Oline was giving hack plenty of time vs Bulls

I was OK with our passing game plan Saturday. What didn't happen was execution by the players. Plenty of dropped balls and mixed signals. I expect them to play better Saturday. Goodwin had five catches and seems to be our go to WR. We had 5 completions to our TE (and three drops, two by G and one by Carter).

 

[zwick99]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game
- OL Blocking. But even against Buffalo, the O Line was blocking and our passing game still sucked. There were a couple of drops, but we only had 100+ yards passing.
- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.
- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Lack of TE use. We improved on this against Buffalo, and we need to continue to do this going forward. The TE #'s have been pathetic under Donovan.
- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field.
- Lack of roll out passes. Saw a couple of these on Saturday, which was encouraging.

1. Donovan is not aware you can throw between the hash marks. That right there is one of the biggest problems. If you don't use the middle of the field it is very easy to cover the receivers. The receivers can't turn out becuase of the sideline. They don't go over the middle and other than Polk(Fr) and Thompkins(RS FR) the receivers are not going to run away from anyone. They need to use the whole field.

 

[zwick99]

I think people misunderstand the reasons for this play action. It is not just a fake for the play that is being run. It is more to do with the time they actually do run the end-around. The defense sees that action several times and doesn't bite when it is a fake. When we do hand it off, they might be a step slower to react and that might be the difference for our guy making it to the edge. It is done to set up the future just as much as it is to fool the defense when it is a fake.

Except they could not run the ball for 7 out of 8 quarters.

The bottom line is Donovan needs to go.

 

[cobritra]

The other thing the passing game needs is a consistent run game. You saw how much hacks passing opportunities opened up once Barkley began gashing the D.

 

[Jerademan74]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game
- OL Blocking. But even against Buffalo, the O Line was blocking and our passing game still sucked. There were a couple of drops, but we only had 100+ yards passing.
- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.
- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Lack of TE use. We improved on this against Buffalo, and we need to continue to do this going forward. The TE #'s have been pathetic under Donovan.
- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field.
- Lack of roll out passes. Saw a couple of these on Saturday, which was encouraging.

Our passing game improved significantly after Barkley started to break off those impressive runs in the 2nd half. Once the defense knows we have a real running threat, they will ease off the line a little to protect against the run. That gives Hack more time to see the field and see the open recievers. We will improve our pass game as Barkley improves our run game!

 

[massimoManca II]

PSU relies too much on the shotgun ... Draws off the 'Gun appear to be slow-developing/telegraphed BECAUSE THEY ARE .... Nothing wrong eith shotgun, just dont line up in it 94% of plays

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

PSU relies too much on the shotgun ... Draws off the 'Gun appear to be slow-developing/telegraphed BECAUSE THEY ARE .... Nothing wrong eith shotgun, just dont line up in it 94% of plays

Yup. Gotta get Hack under center so he can go into some 3, 5 step drops, which he's more comfortable with. Mix it up a bit, for sure.

 

[jimarnp]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game
- OL Blocking. But even against Buffalo, the O Line was blocking and our passing game still sucked. There were a couple of drops, but we only had 100+ yards passing.
- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.
- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Lack of TE use. We improved on this against Buffalo, and we need to continue to do this going forward. The TE #'s have been pathetic under Donovan.
- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field.
- Lack of roll out passes. Saw a couple of these on Saturday, which was encouraging.

jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action......we just can't use it too much. ----Hack's passing, when he has time, is fine for medium and long passes. WR's and TE's just need to get timing down and put stickum on their hands.....too many drops. Short passes suck, Hack has little accuracy or touch, here. This needs to change.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action......we just can't use it too much. ----Hack's passing, when he has time, is fine for medium and long passes. WR's and TE's just need to get timing down and put stickum on their hands.....too many drops. Short passes suck, Hack has little accuracy or touch, here. This needs to change.

That's my issue. Not that we run them, that we run/fake way too much. I want to get Polk the ball a lot. He needs to get involved in the passing game too.

 

[bjf1984]

jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action......we just can't use it too much. ----Hack's passing, when he has time, is fine for medium and long passes. WR's and TE's just need to get timing down and put stickum on their hands.....too many drops. Short passes suck, Hack has little accuracy or touch, here. This needs to change.

"jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action"

^^^ THIS ^^^

I have seen plenty of "fake jet sweep/TB up the middle". What I do not recall seeing.....and I haven't gone back and broken down any of the tape.....is much of "jet sweep action/pass".

Maybe I am just not recalling correctly, and we did see some of that (if so, mea culpa). But I agree, it is a real nice "action" to be able to throw off of......TE's down the seam, weak side flanker on the cross, double moves by the wr to the side the jet sweep is coming to (fake the block, and then get deep), etc.....it really gives the defense an awful lot to try and defend with 11 guys
.
Now, all of that hinges on being able to block well enough up front to make that TB run reasonably effective, and to provide enough time for Hackenberg to carry out the fake on the play-action and get the ball delivered downfield.

But, schematically, I think it can be a very useful package. Very few of the teams that run that type of package have a QB who can throw the ball downfield like Hackenberg can.

 

[artemis gordon]

I'm going to say it,call me all kinds of names but PSU is going to defeat OSU in the greatest upset of the year. I can take the abuse but I see PSU slowly getting better every week.

 

[BBrown]

That's my issue. Not that we run them, that we run/fake way too much. I want to get Polk the ball a lot. He needs to get involved in the passing game too.

I'd like to see a couple bubble screens to Polk. Kid is quick and fast and Geno does seem to block that play really well.

 

[Raffycorn]

"jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action"

^^^ THIS ^^^

I have seen plenty of "fake jet sweep/TB up the middle". What I do not recall seeing.....and I haven't gone back and broken down any of the tape.....is much of "jet sweep action/pass".

Maybe I am just not recalling correctly, and we did see some of that (if so, mea culpa). But I agree, it is a real nice "action" to be able to throw off of......TE's down the seam, weak side flanker on the cross, double moves by the wr to the side the jet sweep is coming to (fake the block, and then get deep), etc.....it really gives the defense an awful lot to try and defend with 11 guys
.
Now, all of that hinges on being able to block well enough up front to make that TB run reasonably effective, and to provide enough time for Hackenberg to carry out the fake on the play-action and get the ball delivered downfield.

But, schematically, I think it can be a very useful package. Very few of the teams that run that type of package have a QB who can throw the ball downfield like Hackenberg can.

I'd have to take another look, but I do believe that Hack attempted a pass out of the jet action in the second half against Buffalo. I can't say with 100% certainty if that occurred or what the result was, though.

I also saw Hack attempt to give a little bit of a read option look against Buffalo, too - I don't think it was off of the jet action, but it was another wrinkle that we didn't see against Temple. I think Hack got 4-5 yards on it before going out of bounds.

 

[bison13]

There are no crossing patterns. Slant or arrow routes on a three step drop should be part of the arsenal.

 

[LuvDaLions]

I'm going to say it,call me all kinds of names but PSU is going to defeat OSU in the greatest upset of the year. I can take the abuse but I see PSU slowly getting better every week.

Are you off your meds again?

 

[sluggo72]

1. Donovan is not aware you can throw between the hash marks. That right there is one of the biggest problems. If you don't use the middle of the field it is very easy to cover the receivers. The receivers can't turn out becuase of the sideline. They don't go over the middle and other than Polk(Fr) and Thompkins(RS FR) the receivers are not going to run away from anyone. They need to use the whole field.

The funny thing is , the people here at Marshall are saying the same thing!! I think Spurrier told people, don't throw over the middle, too many picks, because nobody in college does it anymore!!

 

[massimoManca II]

I'm going to say it,call me all kinds of names but PSU is going to defeat OSU in the greatest upset of the year. I can take the abuse but I see PSU slowly getting better every week.

In the event that this happens: I vow to shove my car-keys up my ass

 

[cobritra]

In the event that this happens: I vow to shove my car-keys up my ass

the whole set or just one?

 

[zwick99]

The funny thing is , the people here at Marshall are saying the same thing!! I think Spurrier told people, don't throw over the middle, too many picks, because nobody in college does it anymore!!

Do you ever watch the NBA when they have the shot graphic to show where a player shoots? I wonder if there is something like that to see where PSU throws the ball. It is tough for the receivers to get open when you are only running down a lane next to the sideline and the DBs know what you are doing.


It is not like Hack had a great TD to TO ratio by not going over the middle.

Donovan really needs to go.

 

[joeparules]

jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action......we just can't use it too much. ----Hack's passing, when he has time, is fine for medium and long passes. WR's and TE's just need to get timing down and put stickum on their hands.....too many drops. Short passes suck, Hack has little accuracy or touch, here. This needs to change.

Gonna disagree on this one. I don't remember every pass, but the only good medium/deep ball Hack threw was to Godwin on the PI call and the one that clanked off Gesicki's hands (and even that could have used more air). His medium/long pass accuracy is taking a dive over the past two years and his short range passing is the worst I've seen since Donovan McNabb on the Eagles. I know it is only two games, but if the OL is going to improve so better Hack's accuracy if they have a prayer of seeing seven wins this season.

 

[PSUSignore]

I have seen plenty of "fake jet sweep/TB up the middle". What I do not recall seeing.....and I haven't gone back and broken down any of the tape.....is much of "jet sweep action/pass".

IIRC we attempted that a few times vs. Temple, but like most things in that game I don't think it resulted in anything of note.

 

[zwick99]

Gonna disagree on this one. I don't remember every pass, but the only good medium/deep ball Hack threw was to Godwin on the PI call and the one that clanked off Gesicki's hands (and even that could have used more air). His medium/long pass accuracy is taking a dive over the past two years and his short range passing is the worst I've seen since Donovan McNabb on the Eagles. I know it is only two games, but if the OL is going to improve so better Hack's accuracy if they have a prayer of seeing seven wins this season.

His medium to long passes were better than his short passes. Like you said they clanked off of players hands. Geno Lewis had a couple of them too. His passing looks better when the WRs catch the balls that hit them in the hands.

 

[bjf1984]

His medium to long passes were better than his short passes. Like you said they clanked off of players hands. Geno Lewis had a couple of them too. His passing looks better when the WRs catch the balls that hit them in the hands.

Hackenberg makes the downfield throws as well as anyone I've seen here.......but - obviously - we rarely have time for those. He threw some outstanding balls downfield on Saturday.
It does seem - to me - he has more than his share of issues on the short horizontal stuff (flanker screens and what not)

 

[sluggo72]

a couple of long completions would help

 

[SR108]

From my observations, here are the problems with our passing game
- OL Blocking. But even against Buffalo, the O Line was blocking and our passing game still sucked. There were a couple of drops, but we only had 100+ yards passing.
- End Around/Jet sweep fakes on passing plays: First off, the fake jet sweep fools nobody. Enough already. Secondly, with a bad line, Hack wasting time on a play fake takes away time that can be spent scanning the field. Which brings me to my next point.
- Slow developing pass plays. With the OL issues, our pass plays should be quick developing so Hack can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
- Lack of TE use. We improved on this against Buffalo, and we need to continue to do this going forward. The TE #'s have been pathetic under Donovan.
- Donovan is aware that we are allowed to throw the ball in between the hash marks, right? It seems like all our routes are down/towards the sidelines. We need to utilize all of the field.
- Lack of roll out passes. Saw a couple of these on Saturday, which was encouraging.

The passing game looked a lot better aside from the drops, after Barkley started to spark the running game.

 

[jim cummings]

How about just spreading the field with Polk, Hamilton, Thompkins, Godwin and take your pick between Gesicki, Blacknall, Lewis, and Johnson.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

How about just spreading the field with Polk, Hamilton, Thompkins, Godwin and take your pick between Gesicki, Blacknall, Lewis, and Johnson.

Because that would make sense. And John Donovan ain't about that life...

 

[PSUinCAfan]

What is wrong ...
• WR getting off line quick
• Precise routes and better design
• Ball out of Hack's hands quicker
• OL needs to be more aware of the delay or stunt and not move out of position when helping out, they are not trusting enough and move to double team much too fast. Hold that ground and watch for the blitz.
• All around more confidence and trust of guys doing their job

 

[DB2592]

"jet sweeps have been fine. Kid is quick and got a bunch of yards and a TD in the first 2 games. It freezes LB's/DB's for play action"

^^^ THIS ^^^

I have seen plenty of "fake jet sweep/TB up the middle". What I do not recall seeing.....and I haven't gone back and broken down any of the tape.....is much of "jet sweep action/pass".

Maybe I am just not recalling correctly, and we did see some of that (if so, mea culpa). But I agree, it is a real nice "action" to be able to throw off of......TE's down the seam, weak side flanker on the cross, double moves by the wr to the side the jet sweep is coming to (fake the block, and then get deep), etc.....it really gives the defense an awful lot to try and defend with 11 guys
.
Now, all of that hinges on being able to block well enough up front to make that TB run reasonably effective, and to provide enough time for Hackenberg to carry out the fake on the play-action and get the ball delivered downfield.

But, schematically, I think it can be a very useful package. Very few of the teams that run that type of package have a QB who can throw the ball downfield like Hackenberg can.

First sack of the season vs Temple. Play action off of jet sweep, looked for shot down field, not open, sack.

 

[PSU1983PHAN]

Also, the plays never seem to have an outlet/check down available when protection breaks down. With this line that's inexcusable. As is everything Donovan does.

 

[Bowep]

Concur, your are right on! Simple things that are very important and can be corrected!

What is wrong ...
• WR getting off line quick
• Precise routes and better design
• Ball out of Hack's hands quicker
• OL needs to be more aware of the delay or stunt and not move out of position when helping out, they are not trusting enough and move to double team much too fast. Hold that ground and watch for the blitz.
• All around more confidence and trust of guys doing their job[/QUOT

 

[LafayetteBear]

How does a "jet" sweep differ from an ordinary sweep? (Please hold off on the obligatory pictures of Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins.)