There is unhappiness in East Lansing

[Jerry]

The "glory days" were last seen consistently in the 1980s. As earlier stated fans need to understand that historically Michigan and Ohio State are better programs. I too would love to win every single game. However, I'm not going to let unrealistic expectations destroy my appreciation for seasons such as the current one.
Then there is.... well this year is okay....but what about last year? LOL
I appreciate my recent trips to the Rose, Fiesta, Cotton etc. One more win and I plan to travel and enjoy another great bowl destination. If some want to look for failure to cling to, go for it.

For those of us who grew into ripe adulthood during the first 25 years of Paterno's reign, the Glory Days are wonderful memories...hard to let go of.

Historically, yes, Ohio State and Michigan are better programs, but for those 25 years, they were not. In fact, we were arguably the better program during that timeframe.

Not to sound like a broken record because it's water over the dam, but from a strictly football standpoint, joining the Big-10 was a big mistake. We never belonged and they treated us like an interloper from Day One. Joe came to realize this, but by then it was too late.

 

[marshall23]

..and I am confused by the use of the term "cry". I don't see anyone "crying" about it. The fact is, we aren't a good enough team, at least to what PSU's standards should be. We beat a lot of cupcakes.

The argument is "so did Michigan" but Michigan beat us (soundly, I might add). If we had beaten Michigan, we'd be a one-loss team, positioned to challenge for the championship series and rooting for UM to beat tOSU as we'd be playing in the B1G championship game with a win guaranteeing a position in the series.

But that didn't happen.

We got blown out by Michigan, lost to tOSU (respectfully) and have two losses. We are right where we should be. with a little luck, we'll squeak into a NY6 game but we haven't beaten a single top 25 team. Our best win is ~#30, Minnesota but that was the week they lost their QB, so....

I'm at a loss as to "what PSU standards should be."
Who gets to decide?
Again, how do we ignore that Michigan and Ohio State are better programs? This year and in the entire history of college football.
I fully understand wanting to win every game. It's also normal fan behavior to hope for a playoff birth etc.
But that doesn't make for an unsuccessful season if those goals aren't reached.
Let's put it this way. PSU was privileged to have the greatest football coach who ever lived.
Since 1887 PSU has 2 national titles.
Isn't a bit silly to call a potential 10-2 season a failure?
Penn State simply is not and never will be for a sustained time Alabama.

 

[Obliviax]

I'm at a loss as to "what PSU standards should be."
Who gets to decide?
Again, how do we ignore that Michigan and Ohio State are better programs? This year and in the entire history of college football.
I fully understand wanting to win every game. It's also normal fan behavior to hope for a playoff birth etc.
But that doesn't make for an unsuccessful season if those goals aren't reached.
Let's put it this way. PSU was privileged to have the greatest football coach who ever lived.
Since 1887 PSU has 2 national titles.
Isn't a bit silly to call a potential 10-2 season a failure?
Penn State simply is not and never will be for a sustained time Alabama.

I get to decide! It's my opinion.

We've completely sucked and underperformed the last two years with 4-5 and a 7-6 record. With that in mind, I am not going to get excited about a season where we won against bad competition and lost against good.

So I am not "disappointed" or "crying" about the year. Nor am I excited for pleased. The year met expectations. If we lose tomorrow or would have lost any other game, our 2022 would be no different than 20 or 21.

 

[marshall23]

For those of us who grew into ripe adulthood during the first 25 years of Paterno's reign, the Glory Days are wonderful memories...hard to let go of.

Historically, yes, Ohio State and Michigan are better programs, but for those 25 years, they were not. In fact, we were arguably the better program during that timeframe.

Not to sound like a broken record because it's water over the dam, but from a strictly football standpoint, joining the Big-10 was a big mistake. We never belonged and they treated us like an interloper from Day One. Joe came to realize this, but by then it was too late.

I attended my first game in 1966. I didn't realize until much later that in fact it was Joe's first year.
I have been a fan for 56 years....while I didn't attend PSU, my college coach was a PSU player and my high school coach was on Joe's staff for almost 2 decades. I live and die on Saturday's watching the games.
But my God, at some point you have to understand that virtually no team wins all the time. It's insanity to think that somehow PSU is the land of "milk and honey" for college football. Over the years, PSU has been great at 3 or 4 moments in time and also very good.....and not so good.
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Nebraska, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and recently Clemson to name a few....all have fine programs and many, if not most have won more natties than PSU.
I'd really like to understand why some think the PSU pedigree is so pristine as to sneeze at a top 10 finish?

 

[mcpat]

My hypothesis is that the folks complaining the most about 9-2 not being good enough are living room couch fans. Cause if you were a season ticket holder, you’d know how much fun it has been.

 

[marshall23]

I get to decide! It's my opinion.

We've completely sucked and underperformed the last two years with 4-5 and a 7-6 record. With that in mind, I am not going to get excited about a season where we won against bad competition and lost against good.

So I am not "disappointed" or "crying" about the year. Nor am I excited for pleased. The year met expectations. If we lose tomorrow or would have lost any other game, our 2022 would be no different than 20 or 21.

The past 2 years are gone. If that is your issue, you can't be helped. You deserve to live with your misery.
How about 1888,1900,1928,1936,1988,2003? Have you let go of those poor seasons yet?

 

[lazydave841]

My hypothesis is that the folks complaining the most about 9-2 not being good enough are living room couch fans. Cause if you were a season ticket holder, you’d know how much fun it has been.

I'm a living room couch fan. I'm not complaining.

My thoughts is this: it's a Ricky Bobby culture; you are either first or last.

 

[mcpat]

For those of us who grew into ripe adulthood during the first 25 years of Paterno's reign, the Glory Days are wonderful memories...hard to let go of.

Historically, yes, Ohio State and Michigan are better programs, but for those 25 years, they were not. In fact, we were arguably the better program during that timeframe.

Not to sound like a broken record because it's water over the dam, but from a strictly football standpoint, joining the Big-10 was a big mistake. We never belonged and they treated us like an interloper from Day One. Joe came to realize this, but by then it was too late.

Conference expansion is in vogue now but you’re right that there were a lot of B1G folks that hated PSU joining their conference. We even had Big Ten reporters voting for Nebraska in 1994. But JoePa couldn’t get the other Eastern schools to create an Eastern football conference. In a way, you might argue JoePa was ahead of his time on the conference stuff.

When we first joined, I thought we were going to own the Big Ten. But Ohio State wasn’t what it is now and while PSU had always put together a couple of mediocre seasons between the great ones, the great seasons became less great by the late 90s. I think scholarship restrictions probably contributed to that. We used to stack O-Line depth. The collapse of the 99 team seem to set up the early 00s. Then, just as things looked like they were back on track after the Derrick Williams recruiting class and the Daryll Clark/Tony Hunt teams, things collapsed under the Sandusky scandal. I remain amazed things didn’t go worse and that we are as good as we have been under Franklin.

 

[Obliviax]

I attended my first game in 1966. I didn't realize until much later that in fact it was Joe's first year.
I have been a fan for 56 years....while I didn't attend PSU, my college coach was a PSU player and my high school coach was on Joe's staff for almost 2 decades. I live and die on Saturday's watching the games.
But my God, at some point you have to understand that virtually no team wins all the time. It's insanity to think that somehow PSU is the land of "milk and honey" for college football. Over the years, PSU has been great at 3 or 4 moments in time and also very good.....and not so good.
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Nebraska, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and recently Clemson to name a few....all have fine programs and many, if not most have won more natties than PSU.
I'd really like to understand why some think the PSU pedigree is so pristine as to sneeze at a top 10 finish?

because we haven't beaten anyone with a pulse. If you look at the potential NYD6 teams, they all have good wins

• LSU - Alabama
• USC - UCLA and ND (if not, they won't be NY6 team)
• Clemson- FL State
• Alabama - Miss/TX
• Tenn - Alabama
• Oregon - UCLA/Washington/Utah
• Washington - Oregon
• ND - Clemson/USC (or won't be in the NY6)
• Utah - USC

Penn State? Minny, Purdue

 

[mcpat]

I'm a living room couch fan. I'm not complaining.

My thoughts is this: it's a Ricky Bobby culture; you are either first or last.

Sorry; didn’t mean all couch fans complain; the other way around though.

 

[Obliviax]

The past 2 years are gone. If that is your issue, you can't be helped. You deserve to live with your misery.
How about 1888,1900,1928,1936,1988,2003? Have you let go of those poor seasons yet?

This is the same basic coaching staff and most of the same kids. If you are happy with the big win being Minnesota with their second team QB, I am happy for you.

 

[Jerry]

I attended my first game in 1966. I didn't realize until much later that in fact it was Joe's first year.
I have been a fan for 56 years....while I didn't attend PSU, my college coach was a PSU player and my high school coach was on Joe's staff for almost 2 decades. I live and die on Saturday's watching the games.
But my God, at some point you have to understand that virtually no team wins all the time. It's insanity to think that somehow PSU is the land of "milk and honey" for college football. Over the years, PSU has been great at 3 or 4 moments in time and also very good.....and not so good.
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Nebraska, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and recently Clemson to name a few....all have fine programs and many, if not most have won more natties than PSU.
I'd really like to understand why some think the PSU pedigree is so pristine as to sneeze at a top 10 finish?

Right, and I offered some perspective along those lines in a post above. To me, 10-2 and a top-10 ranking is a darn nice year...exceeding expectations. I'll take it in a heartbeat and have said that repeatedly here.

That said, I also understand where Obli is coming from, and I think his point about the bowl game is valid too. Unfortunately, however, in the age of opt-outs, the meaning and significance of winning (or losing) bowl games has changed.

But getting back to the idea of "better programs," if if you came of age at a certain time, as I did, at or near the beginning of Joe's legendary tenure, the comparison point is not "history" but rather the experience of decades of regular-season and post-season success, to include national championships (both won and deserved), and by that standard, Penn State had an equal or better program than either Michigan or Ohio State during the period in question. And there's no law of history or nature saying it couldn't or shouldn't happen again. In any case, it's certainly not wrong to shoot for such a goal and to reasonably entertain the hope that it's achievable.

 

[Obliviax]

Right, and I offered some perspective along those lines in a post above. To me, 10-2 and a top-10 ranking is a darn nice year...exceeding expectations. I'll take it in a heartbeat and have said that repeatedly here.

That said, I also understand where Obli is coming from, and I think his point about the bowl game is valid too. Unfortunately, however, in the age of opt-outs, the meaning and significance of winning (or losing) bowl games has changed.

But getting back to the idea of "better programs," if if you came of age at a certain time, as I did, at or near the beginning of Joe's legendary tenure, the comparison point is not "history" but rather the experience of decades of regular-season and post-season success, to include national championships (both won and deserved), and by that standard, Penn State had an equal or better program than either Michigan or Ohio State during the period in question. And there's no law of history or nature saying it couldn't or shouldn't happen again. In any case, it's certainly not wrong to shoot for such a goal and to reasonably entertain the hope that it's achievable.

right. I am not disappointed or pleased.

I am not going to be happy with the season's signature win being Minnesota. But the team beat who they should have (unlike the last two years) and lost only to two top five teams.

I would describe my feeling coming out of 2022 as "measured optimism".

 

[marshall23]

because we haven't beaten anyone with a pulse. If you look at the potential NYD6 teams, they all have good wins

• LSU - Alabama
• USC - UCLA and ND (if not, they won't be NY6 team)
• Clemson- FL State
• Alabama - Miss/TX
• Tenn - Alabama
• Oregon - UCLA/Washington/Utah
• Washington - Oregon
• ND - Clemson/USC (or won't be in the NY6)
• Utah - USC

Penn State? Minny, Purdue

How are Miss and Texas good wins? PSU is every bit as good as Clemson this year.
Minny and Purdue could end the season with comparable record.
The fact is that you just want to be disappointed and displeased. I think you have every right to feel that way.
I prefer to watch the games and find enjoyment. I don't think I'd spend my time doing something that leads to near consistent all encompassing disappointment.

 

[marshall23]

Right, and I offered some perspective along those lines in a post above. To me, 10-2 and a top-10 ranking is a darn nice year...exceeding expectations. I'll take it in a heartbeat and have said that repeatedly here.

That said, I also understand where Obli is coming from, and I think his point about the bowl game is valid too. Unfortunately, however, in the age of opt-outs, the meaning and significance of winning (or losing) bowl games has changed.

But getting back to the idea of "better programs," if if you came of age at a certain time, as I did, at or near the beginning of Joe's legendary tenure, the comparison point is not "history" but rather the experience of decades of regular-season and post-season success, to include national championships (both won and deserved), and by that standard, Penn State had an equal or better program than either Michigan or Ohio State during the period in question. And there's no law of history or nature saying it couldn't or shouldn't happen again. In any case, it's certainly not wrong to shoot for such a goal and to reasonably entertain the hope that it's achievable.

All of us are hoping to equal or exceed some of Joe's most successful seasons. My adult sons (bigger PSU fans than I am) were always with me at spring practice and we've made a tradition of spending the holidays centered around the PSU Bowl game. We've done the Pinstripe, Citrus, Capital One, Ticket City Bowl, Rose, Cotton, Fiesta, and Gator bowls since my wife passed away. I have a room in my home that is practically a Joe Paterno Shrine.
But come on. At some point you need to enjoy 10 and 11 win seasons. If PSU wins tomorrow, I'm packing my bags and doing it one more time.
I'll let the crybabies join forces with the fanbases that really have something to bitch about (not bowl eligible).

 

[Obliviax]

How are Miss and Texas good wins? PSU is every bit as good as Clemson this year.
Minny and Purdue could end the season with comparable record.
The fact is that you just want to be disappointed and displeased. I think you have every right to feel that way.
I prefer to watch the games and find enjoyment. I don't think I'd spend my time doing something that leads to near consistent all encompassing disappointment.

Sorry. They are better wins than Purdue or Minnesota

 

[knickslions]

Anybody that doesn’t think this was a great season is delusional and not a true fan. Team had one bad game all season. Had the lead with about 8 minutes left in the game against the number 2 team in country and just made a few turnovers which happens. A lot of young players got experience and good possibility on Ny6 bowl. Hell of a season

 

[Thomas1945]

I’ll say it again perception, perception, perception. I’m happy with 10-2, but I’d of been thrilled if one of the wins had been against OSU or UM.

 

[marshall23]

Sorry. They are better wins than Purdue or Minnesota

Texas is 7-4

 

[Obliviax]

Texas is 7-4

But a much more prominent program, with much higher rated kids, than Purdue

 

[mcpat]

But a much more prominent program, with much higher rated kids, than Purdue

It is, but can you believe Texas has had double digit wins exactly once the past 13 seasons (10-4 in 2018)? Five losing seasons in that time too. Still better than Purdue, but Texas isn’t what it once was and hasn’t been for a l-o-n-g time.

 

[marshall23]

But a much more prominent program, with much higher rated kids, than Purdue

A loss doesn't count with highly rated recruits?

 

[marshall23]

That may be true but the way the season played out, we were favored in every game. I think our most challenging game was Purdue since it was the first game of the season. Charlie Jones made a big splash and we couldn't anticipate that because he wasn't on the team last year and didn't play much before with Iowa. Auburn had a down year, fired their coach. We didn't play Iowa, Wisconsin or Nebraska. We played Minn after they lost their key starting QB.

So you can say we won 1.5 more games than we should have, a closer look shows that we won the games we should have and lost to the two we should have. We simply "held serve".

We can all call that "improvement" and rightfully so. We didn't lose to an "Indiana" or "Illinois", if that is considered an improvement. My position is that this "improvement" came after two years of dismal performance. I am not going to jump up and down because we beat Purdue and MD in the same year.

Why was PSU favored in every game but two? Could it be that by winning week after week and often beating the spread, they demonstrated they were a good team?

 

[AWS1022]

because we haven't beaten anyone with a pulse. If you look at the potential NYD6 teams, they all have good wins

• LSU - Alabama
• USC - UCLA and ND (if not, they won't be NY6 team)
• Clemson- FL State
• Alabama - Miss/TX
• Tenn - Alabama
• Oregon - UCLA/Washington/Utah
• Washington - Oregon
• ND - Clemson/USC (or won't be in the NY6)
• Utah - USC

Penn State? Minny, Purdue

Outside of Bama, had PSU beat any of those teams, you and others on this board would still be saying we didn’t beat anyone. If we beat ND, we’d be hearing that they lost to Marshall, but it’s a good win for someone else. Same with beating anyone else on your list. And Clemson has made a living off of beating bad teams yet “fans” on this board talk about them like they’re a dynasty. At least be consistent.

 

[LandoComando]

Why was PSU favored in every game but two? Could it be that by winning week after week and often beating the spread, they demonstrated they were a good team?

Absolutely--they are a good team without any significant wins--it can be both

 

[LandoComando]

Outside of Bama, had PSU beat any of those teams, you and others on this board would still be saying we didn’t beat anyone. If we beat ND, we’d be hearing that they lost to Marshall, but it’s a good win for someone else. Same with beating anyone else on your list. And Clemson has made a living off of beating bad teams yet “fans” on this board talk about them like they’re a dynasty. At least be consistent.

All of those wins are better than anything we have even if they aren't great
And yes, Clemson is too high--if I was in charge, which I'm sure you're glad I'm not, Clemson would be at 11 right now and UNC would be at 20.

 

[HazletonLion]

Outside of Bama, had PSU beat any of those teams, you and others on this board would still be saying we didn’t beat anyone. If we beat ND, we’d be hearing that they lost to Marshall, but it’s a good win for someone else. Same with beating anyone else on your list. And Clemson has made a living off of beating bad teams yet “fans” on this board talk about them like they’re a dynasty. At least be consistent.

Don't count out Auburn , Cadillac winning that game gives him the job.

 

[Obliviax]

Outside of Bama, had PSU beat any of those teams, you and others on this board would still be saying we didn’t beat anyone. If we beat ND, we’d be hearing that they lost to Marshall, but it’s a good win for someone else. Same with beating anyone else on your list. And Clemson has made a living off of beating bad teams yet “fans” on this board talk about them like they’re a dynasty. At least be consistent.

I think that is quite a bit of speculation on your part. I am certainly not a doom and gloomer. I am looking at the facts and the facts are we didn't beat a single program on anybody's radar as being a quality team. Sorry to be real. But you keep being you!

 

[marshall23]

because we haven't beaten anyone with a pulse. If you look at the potential NYD6 teams, they all have good wins

• LSU - Alabama
• USC - UCLA and ND (if not, they won't be NY6 team)
• Clemson- FL State
• Alabama - Miss/TX
• Tenn - Alabama
• Oregon - UCLA/Washington/Utah
• Washington - Oregon
• ND - Clemson/USC (or won't be in the NY6)
• Utah - USC

Penn State? Minny, Purdue

 

[Obliviax]

View embedded media

Sorry.

Yeah, YEA!!! We beat Minnesota with their second string Quarterback.

Yea, YEA!!! We beat Purdue!

 

[marshall23]

Sorry.

Yeah, YEA!!! We beat Minnesota with their second string Quarterback.

Yea, YEA!!! We beat Purdue!

Yes, PSU should apologize for giving Minny and Maryland the biggest ass kicking of the season. "We deserve better."

 

[marshall23]

P

Sorry.

Yeah, YEA!!! We beat Minnesota with their second string Quarterback.

Yea, YEA!!! We beat Purdue!

PSU should have lost....then you'd have a reason to cry.

 

[Obliviax]

It is actually sad, to me, that PSU fans think that beating Minny (and their second team QB) and MD is some kind of accomplishment.

 

[marshall23]

Sorry.

Yeah, YEA!!! We beat Minnesota with their second string Quarterback.

Yea, YEA!!! We beat Purdue!

Buck up.....never any guarantees....PSU could lose tomorrow. Think how miserable you can be then.

 

[Jerry]

I think that is quite a bit of speculation on your part. I am certainly not a doom and gloomer. I am looking at the facts and the facts are we didn't beat a single program on anybody's radar as being a quality team. Sorry to be real. But you keep being you!

Obli, I do understand where you're coming from in this debate, but where I think you and some others go offbase is in the definition of "quality teams."

The fact is, with the parity in college football these days, there aren't many walkovers on the schedule anymore. The on-any-given-Saturday rule has never been more in force. You have to show up every week to play or risk the L.

I think a lot of the teams on our schedule are "quality teams." Purdue on the road. Auburn on the road. Minnesota. Maryland. Hell, even Ohio looks like it may win the MAC. Lots of decent wins there.

On the other side of the ledger, the two teams we lost to are by consensus among the elite in the sport this year. One we got trampled. That hurt. The other we outplayed for 50 minutes and then ran out of gas.

When you look at the whole picture, I think a 10-2 record (assuming we win Saturday), especially with so many young kids seeing meaningful PT and widespread preseason expectations of 7 or 8 wins max, is pretty impressive.

I do agree with you that it would very nice to win the bowl game in order to nail down our case.

 

[AWS1022]

I think that is quite a bit of speculation on your part. I am certainly not a doom and gloomer. I am looking at the facts and the facts are we didn't beat a single program on anybody's radar as being a quality team. Sorry to be real. But you keep being you!

They were certainly on everyone’s radar before we beat them….I read all the posts about all the games we were going to lose. Say we’re going to lose before the game, then we win and say the team we beat wasn’t any good, that’s a pretty unbeatable argument.

 

[marshall23]

It is actually sad, to me, that PSU fans think that beating Minny (and their second team QB) and MD is some kind of accomplishment.

 

[AWS1022]

Sorry.

Yeah, YEA!!! We beat Minnesota with their second string Quarterback.

Yea, YEA!!! We beat Purdue!

All I kept reading last year after the Iowa game was that a QB getting injured was no excuse….again, at least be consistent.

 

[Obliviax]

P

PSU should have lost....then you'd have a reason to cry.

Awesome. This is the problem with America. There are no standards. PSU should aspire to doing something more than beating Minny with their second team QB and Purdue with Charlie Jones and 15 other two and three star recruits with substandard facilities.

 

[Obliviax]

All I kept reading last year after the Iowa game was that a QB getting injured was no excuse….again, at least be consistent.

Now you are just making stuff up. Weird you get emotional about this.