No, he is saying there is inherent economic value in "likes" and "reviews"... do you not agree?
To the Skellar-Herlocher Angry Mob
- Thread starter heckmans
- Start date
No, he is saying there is inherent economic value in "likes" and "reviews"... do you not agree?
That’s why you take a 30 year fixed mortgage. At the time you signed, it was market driven
The Skellar is a $hithole. Has been for decades. If reviews mattered it would have been cleaned up a long time ago.
But again, trying to see the "free market" argument here.
LdN
Forgive me if I take your posts on the matter with a massive grain of salt. You admitted that the Herlochers are friends of yours, therefore your opinion is hardly unbiased. The current operators have said they were not offered a new lease. The Herlochers say otherwise. So we don't really know the truth because we are getting two different stories and obviously since you have a relationship with one of the parties it's obvious who you are going to believe.
There is if the likes and reviews are based on people who have actually used the products or service.
If i own a business and have all my friends and family give likes and 5 star reviews does that make my business a 5* business?
Your brand is clearly an important part of your ability to survive. The opinions of your customers are a crucial part of your brand. After all, why would their friend Heckmans be whining about how unfair it is if they did not care that they just peed all over their own brand?
When your brand has a great rep, demand raises the price of your product. When you crash your brand into a brick wall? Not so much. That is the free market at work.
When Tiger Woods went nuts he lost his endorsements. Why? Because the people who were paying him decided the association was toxic.
So, unless a market is utterly unaffected by any regulation, it is not a free market? OK, well there are a million rules of law regarding rental real estate. The Statute of Frauds requires a writing to effect a change in ownership of real estate. Whoa! No free market in real estate in SC!
Huh....Well then how did they arrive at a "market rental rate?" LOL
This is accurate and has been my primary point all along. I do not know the rent Herlochers were asking. Neither does the Angry mob, but that hasn't stopped the mob from "knowing" that the Herlochers are bad people based on the press release from the Gastigers.
Regarding your last sentence, there are dozens of other bars selling lots of beer while operating under market negotiated leases.
So you condone people posting artificially low reviews of a product on Facebook and Amazon just because they disagree with an issue unrelated to the product itself?
That is akin to you getting in a dispute with a neighbor or other citizen/resident of Berkely Springs and having them go on every "rate-a-lawyer" website and posting negative, artificial reviews about your legal abilities. That doesn't seem like appropriate "free-market forces" to me and I imagine you would be more than a little perturbed.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
OK - so you (and the Herlocher's) say they tried to work out a deal (or 'resolve the situation') with current tenants. That's what they say in the first post. In a follow up CDT article, they then confirm there was no effort to lease the property to current tenants. The Gastigers have said they would welcome a chance to get a new lease in place.
Herlocher statement:
From the CDT:
See, being the herlocher’s mouthpiece on a message board and just slamming the current owners doesn’t buy you any goodwill. You get all your info directly from Neil, so is this the way Neil is talking about the Gastigers?
Exactly. So the unanswered question is "why didn't Gastiger have a lease?" Not having one is what got him into this mess. If he had a lease, there'd be no issue here. For some reason, he and the old owner didn't sign one. Why not?
Perhaps, but trying to turn it into a historical landmark doesn't make it a sustainable business. The original Yuengling brewery is Pottsville a landmark, but if people stop drinking Yuengling, it doesn't mean the business will continue to operate, no matter how many old-timers who drink 1 beer a month are upset.
Arm chair QB? Is your last name Herlocher or are you just one of their butt buddies?
Let me put this another way. The Herlochers are absolutely stupid if they didn’t anticipate or plan for backlash regardless of what the Gastingers did or didn’t do. It’s not being an arm chair quarterback. It’s called dealing with the public in today’s internet age.
A "Free market" assumes people will act rationally but more importantly "rationality" is the same for all parties. I'm sure the Gastinger's thought that the "good will" they have amassed over the years would allow them to pay less than market. By the same token, I'm sure the Herlocher's didn't anticipate the backlash.
The Gastinger's should have addressed the lease years ago and the Herlocher's shouldn't be so tone deaf.
The Gastinger's should have addressed the lease years ago and the Herlocher's shouldn't be so tone deaf.
This kind of reminds me of what happened to the Stone Balloon in Newark, DE.
Developers turned this:
Into this:
Developers turned this:
Into this:
You know what they say about assuming.
1. Yes, I have know the Herlochers for 20+ years.
2. I have not spoken to, or otherwise communicated with Neil since Sept.
3. I am not the "Herlocher's mouthpiece." I have nothing to do with the business and do not pretend to speak for them.
4. I have no interest other than truth and fairness which means combating all the really really smart people on this board who are really angry at people they don't know over a situation they have no insight into.
I have shared what I know about the situation and the Herlochers as people, and presented rational facts of running a business that don't support the Gastiger's press release or the assumptions of the angry mob. I have not "slammed" the Gastigers. It is an indisputable fact that if the skellar is successful and viable, then the Gastigers would be able and willing to operate under market rates for the space. To not do so, would be stupid and illogical. IMHO, the only rational conclusion is that the business is not all that healthy, either because of a lack of sales, poor management, or a combination of both. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry, but that is not "slamming" anybody. I'm the first to admit that I don't have all the facts. I'm simply looking at the available evidence and taking it to logical conclusions, which is more than the angry mob who are mad that a business they no longer frequent, managed by people who were not the owners when they did, might change hands or cease to operate.
Please stop making sense. There are pitchforks to sharpen and people to demonize!
Umm...Do you think a bank can increase your mortgage?
Your mortgage is a contract. It cannot be unilaterally changed without recourse and ramifications.
A lease is also a contract and cannot be unilaterally changed without recourse and ramifications.
The Gastigers did not have a lease since 2011 and were paying rent below the market.
In short, your premise can be summed up by your words..."Um, no."
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
You have not responded to my post which shows the Herlocher's admitting they did not offer the Gastigers a new lease despite saying they made good faith efforts previously. You still continue to say they tried to work with the Gastigers when that is clearly not true. I don't care either way, but to continue the charade that they made as much of an effort as possible to keep the Skeller 'as is' is baloney.
This kind of reminds me of what happened to the Stone Balloon in Newark, DE.
Developers turned this:
Into this:
Wow -- Niiiiiice. I would probably actually step foot into the Skeller if it looked like that (lower) picture someday.
Perhaps what they meant was although they had tried to come to an agreement on price, they were unable to do so- so they did not "offer" a lease simply because there was no agreement on one to begin with. Since none of us were in the room, we don't know- so let's not pretend we do.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
That's fine with me, but no need to read that much into it. Herlocher said no lease offered - should have said that from the beginning. If it was how you suggested, they could have said as much. Instead, people defending them say they tried to work things out - doesn't sound like it from their two statements and the Gastiger's comments indicating they would love to work on a new lease. Just say they're the new owners and have no interest in doing business with current tenants. Done and done. They're trying to have their cake and eat it too (note folks on other boards who have worked with both parties here say they trust one more than the other - FWIW).
Yeah, that looks like they promised the Train Station would look before they shut it.
That's a great question. How long did the Gastigers run the Skeller? Were they friends with the previous owner? Did they have some sort of gentlemen's agreement instead of an actual lease? Did the old owner do it on purpose? It's much easier to sell a building if the tenants don't have a lease.
I'm not taking sides but just because a business is successful doesn't mean they are willing to pay market rent. And market rent isn't just set by the owner/landlord. Frankly, it would be stupid to simply accept whatever the landlord is offering without negotiating. By the same token, isn't it stupid and illogical for Herlocher's to not have offered the Gastinger's a chance to negotiate a lease? (If that is indeed the case.)
Unrelated to my post above, let's assume the Gastinger's owned the building and they decided to close up the Rath and sell the building to Starbucks for $8MM. Would they face the same backlash? I suspect not.
Worked for Charley back in 1964, senior year. He had a little corner pizza style place then. I quit with two weeks left before graduation. Charley screamed he would never give me a reference, in my only "smart ass" comment till that time, I answered don't need a reference from a little pizza maker. Reflecting on all of Charley's accomplishments maybe I could have used the references. Proud of my PSU education and starting my 43rd year as owner of a software development company.
Guys, calm down. This will all be forgotten in 4 or 5 years.
So, the Gastigers were NEVER OFFERED A LEASE !!!!!!
Oh. That's different. I wonder why Heckman's failed to mention this. LOL.
But I suppose that makes me reactionary. They want to redo the building into something more "classy," by their standards, but they did not want to admit that, exactly. So they come up with this dog and pony show about how there is no lease. Ok, well that is how they can get rid of them quick, but that says nothing about whether Herlochers want to rent to the Gastigers. Not offering them a lease says everything about whether they want the Gastigers in their building.
As the building owners, that is their right. As a disappointed customer, it is my right to make them regret their decision.
As a friend of the Herlochers, it is heckman's right to plead their case, but it sort of seems like he left out a crucial fact. Thanks, Midnighter, for clearing it up for me.
Oh. That's different. I wonder why Heckman's failed to mention this. LOL.
But I suppose that makes me reactionary. They want to redo the building into something more "classy," by their standards, but they did not want to admit that, exactly. So they come up with this dog and pony show about how there is no lease. Ok, well that is how they can get rid of them quick, but that says nothing about whether Herlochers want to rent to the Gastigers. Not offering them a lease says everything about whether they want the Gastigers in their building.
As the building owners, that is their right. As a disappointed customer, it is my right to make them regret their decision.
As a friend of the Herlochers, it is heckman's right to plead their case, but it sort of seems like he left out a crucial fact. Thanks, Midnighter, for clearing it up for me.
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You imply that there were/are missed payments for rent... I'd be very careful with the words you choose
Do you realize that discussing/negotiating a new lease and offering a lease are two different things? If the discussions/negotiations are unsuccessful, no lease is offered to be signed.
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Where does it say there were negotiations? You know, this is the Herlochers' story. They could have told it, rather than depend on you to attempt to gloss it for them.
Where does it say they attempted to negotiate the lease? (Setting aside for the moment that suggesting a lease at $x per month for y months is "offering a lease." And the Herlocher says they did not do that.) Right?
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You "have not slammed the Gastigers"???? You called them "stupid and irrational"! YOU ARE nothing but a damned liar! The CDT confirmed from your 'butt buddy' Neil that they never offered a new lease to the Gastiger's and only informed them that they had to be out by end of February! CONTRADICTS EVERY PIECE OF CRAP THAT YOU HAVE STATED ON HERE! Before berating and denigrating everyone on this site that disagrees with you, perhaps you should find out what the actual truth is!
As landowners they have the right to lie to us about what they have done, what they are doing now, and what they intend to do. Landowners' rights include misleading statements to the press, self-aggrandizing hype about saving the skeller from the wrecking ball, and having your self-proclaimed friends come here and double down on the BS, while throwing in a nice layer of insults on top.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Agreed. But, they want to play the 'We're the good guys! We're saving the building! We tried to work things out with the Skeller ownership but they're cheap-o's who didn't have a lease and wouldn't take our offer of...um, actually, we never really offered them anything, but never-mind that.....WE saved the building!' card.
So the fact that somebody bought a prime piece of State College real estate most likely for a huge sum of money and is going to take that real estate and try to maximize the revenue streams by upgrading the bar, restaurant and apartments (which everybody agrees were in very poor shape and in need of some upgrades) is or is not acceptable?
Or is the issue that they tried to play the good guy and 'blame' the owner of the Skellar for it being shut down the bad thing? So the better thing would have been to buy the building and then put out an announcement that it was purchased and that the existing tenants leases are not being renewed and the facilities will be upgraded and put back in service.
Or is the issue that they tried to play the good guy and 'blame' the owner of the Skellar for it being shut down the bad thing? So the better thing would have been to buy the building and then put out an announcement that it was purchased and that the existing tenants leases are not being renewed and the facilities will be upgraded and put back in service.
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