i don’t think you have to mince words. cael without question totally blew 149 last year and i bet he’d be the first to tell you off the record. unique situation but there were many people who saw the risk of what they were doing early in the season. an out of character lack of foresight to be sure. maybe the only time he could have used a pyles plan
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I guess I’d have to day it is difficult to “totally blow” a situation that has no good solution. Beyond the weight class itself, there was a lot of uncertainty about the season, a late start for all, and missed time to boot. It was a free year to at least give the athletes an opportunity to compete, and the chips fell the way they fell. Not much worthy of hand-wringing, imo.
From the beginning of the season the staff wanted Beau to move to 149 and compete. Beau was insistent he could close the gap on Nick and win a title at 141. The staff wasn't going to tell him "no". So they allowed it to play out.
yes this is what happened and exactly why cael blew it. the danger was obvious. bartlett’s choice should have been compete at 141 but you have to stay there if you lose or move to 149 right away to get matches in. either way, the starter, whoever it was, should have been set early.
imo, he basically did the only thing he could have possibly done to not qualify 149. verk, barraclough, and beau were all qualifier level, but none of them had a chance to build a resume. in the grand scheme of things, not that important and none of them were likely to make up the gap with iowa, but he definitely made a bad decision.
That’s short-term thinking, imo. There was not much to lose by giving his guy the freedom to pursue his Plan A and learn for himself where he stood. A lot to gain from a longer-term reationship standpoint. Trust and self-realization are big in my book.
There was also the report that Barraclough beat Beau in a wrestleoff, but Cael thought Beau had more potential for points at nationals.
I have no clue of there is any validity to that report (on this board I think), but if so, I am sure I would have made the same assessment as well. I would be surprised that Claw could beat Verk as well. What a mess 149 was last year. Given the result anyone can question the decision now and come across as rational. I think we can all agree that given the measures of talent and potential, Beau wins the three way compare pretty easily. He really was oh so close, but the bad draw in Bigs killed us.
Then again we now see Verk suddenly scoring points. It's interesting what a mind set change can do for a talented wrestler.
I have no clue of there is any validity to that report (on this board I think), but if so, I am sure I would have made the same assessment as well. I would be surprised that Claw could beat Verk as well. What a mess 149 was last year. Given the result anyone can question the decision now and come across as rational. I think we can all agree that given the measures of talent and potential, Beau wins the three way compare pretty easily. He really was oh so close, but the bad draw in Bigs killed us.
Then again we now see Verk suddenly scoring points. It's interesting what a mind set change can do for a talented wrestler.
I disagree that it was a bad decision. The decision was not about moving Beau or not. The decision was whether or not to force a decision onto a true freshman who wasn't mentally/emotionally buying into the decision.
It is easy enough to say just make him or wrestle someone else. The problem is Beau was by far the best 149 choice and until it became obvious 141 was Nick's, Beau had his own perception on what was best for him.
So they let it play out. Not forcing an unwanted decision onto a true freshman who was standing his ground in my mind was easily the best decision.
i think this is working backwards from the answer you want. there's no problem with cael giving beau a wrestle off at 141, but after that he should have been up at 149 for the team or on the bench if he didn't want that. you're telling me beau bartlett wouldn't emotionally recover from having to wrestle up at 149? he ended up there anyway. the only difference was he lost an opportunity to wrestle at the greatest tournament in the world.
Say what? How did he lost that opportunity? He wrestled in the BIG for just that opportunity, or are you saying he would have beat out Nick Lee (NCAA Champ Nick Lee) for the 141 spot? Pretty silly position to take.
Verk “suddenly scoring points” equals one match against a guy rated 295 on wrestle stat. He was back to 2 points against Josh Heil. I saw enough Hail Mary duck unders by him as a go to move to last a lifetime
I’m sure he’ll have a much easier schedule and flatter to deceive (and probably even qualify due to being in the ACC), but let’s not twist that.
LOL. Bartlett never started for PSU at 141. Most people would call that being on the bench.
i believe if he wrestled a full slate at 149, he would have gotten a wildcard.
some very poor reading comprehension in this thread. i said bartlett's choice once the season began (assuming he lost the wrestle off to Lee) should have been bench behind Lee or up at 149 right away. instead he wrestled extra matches at 141 for half the season and missed out on getting quality wins that would have given him a chance at a wildcard.
bottom line, cael should have picked a starter at the beginning of the year because he knew the qualification issues heading in. he didn't adjust and it cost him a qualifier at 149 (unless you don't believe any of those 3 were good enough to qualify last year). that's a mistake.
this is college wrestling, not a cult. the greatest coaches in all sports make mistakes too.
Correct, Cael has made mistakes before. Bartlett being allowed to sit at 141 last year was definitely a mistake. When Nick decided he wanted to go 141, Bartlett should have been prepared for 149 immediately. That being said, Cael has been such a mastermind at peaking at NCAAs and executing his vision that many of our fans will vehemently defend anything he does.
and if you default to that attitude, you’d be right 9/10 times, no doubt. that’s why this one sticks out so much. it was a very rare miscue.
I thought Cassar had a pretty solid shot at winning 197 also. The staff thought he would probably win 197. The staff also understood Shak had claimed ownership of 197 and therefore was the 97 pounder. The mistake would have been not recognizing that.
Cael made Beau aware that he wanted him at 149, but that wasn't where Beau wanted to wrestle. So they let him wrestle exhibition 141 matches until he decided for himself he wasn't beating Nick and 149 was his starting opportunity.
The idea that this was some sort of failure on the staff's part is incorrect.
this is revisionist history. shak won the wrestle off and performed better at the scuffle and scored more bonus. cassar had one good match against a guy he’d already beaten (it was a bad match up for moore), but rasheed proved himself to be the better guy against the field.
I actually took down my Cassar analysis but I see some have captured it. Mainly yeah, it's hard to argue Cael made a mistake there just because of what we know now. I just think we've since learned that Cassar just kind of is a gamer and Shak is kind of an overthinker (he had that Mach match won)
Well. We did lose the team title for lack of points, and Beau with a wildcard might’ve added points. Is a team title much or not? 🤔
God you are good. You know things so much better than anybody else. Christ, you do overbearing clown well.
You could bolster your point by adding what extra matches Bartlett missed at 149 -- specifically what extra matches were wrestled at 149 that he didn't participate in, and especially where he wrestled 141 instead. Those matches weren't exclusively PSU's decision.
I’ll make what I hope to be my last point on this subject . . .
The wrestler was a freshman with a bright future and would have 4 yrs of eligibiity left, regardless of what happened in the 2021 season (as it was being treated as a freebie). The coaching staff would be telling the wrestler throughout his career that he can be the champ each and every year. I think the wrestler has a better relationship and more buy-in with the staff during that journey if the staff is consistent in that message from Day 1 and doesn’t dictate. If they dictate, the wrestler can only feel less supported and can only feel less trust. “It’s really up to him” is a quote we have fun with here, but in reality it is a logical and productive approach. Personal accountability and self-direction, with a little added support, are huge in personal growth, maturation, and success.
Any implication that I’m defending how this was handled because I’m a Cael cultist is laughable. You’ll just have to trust me on that.
Last season was a cluster, and everyone knew it was going to be a cluster going in. I’m not sure who thinks Bartlett was going to score 15+ at NCAAs if he had only “put on some good weight earier in the season” instead of pursuing the 141 spot for as long as he did. It wouldn’t have happened, imo . . . And at the very least, as a coach, I would not gamble the quality of my relationship with the wrestler over the next 5 years by dictating in season 1 whether I believe he is good enough to be allowed to pursue the spot of his choice — for Cael & Co., it would be entirely inconsistent with their approach over all these years with all those champs and all those championships.
Whether PSU was grabbing another team title last season was going to depend on a lot of things going right, and qualifying 149 was going make a difference only if a key upset or injury parted the seas for our guy. That would have been slim odds and out of the coaches’ control. What the coaches can control is the opportunity they give their wrestlers, the support they lend, and to some extent, the relationships they build. The model has worked pretty damn well.
The wrestler was a freshman with a bright future and would have 4 yrs of eligibiity left, regardless of what happened in the 2021 season (as it was being treated as a freebie). The coaching staff would be telling the wrestler throughout his career that he can be the champ each and every year. I think the wrestler has a better relationship and more buy-in with the staff during that journey if the staff is consistent in that message from Day 1 and doesn’t dictate. If they dictate, the wrestler can only feel less supported and can only feel less trust. “It’s really up to him” is a quote we have fun with here, but in reality it is a logical and productive approach. Personal accountability and self-direction, with a little added support, are huge in personal growth, maturation, and success.
Any implication that I’m defending how this was handled because I’m a Cael cultist is laughable. You’ll just have to trust me on that.
Last season was a cluster, and everyone knew it was going to be a cluster going in. I’m not sure who thinks Bartlett was going to score 15+ at NCAAs if he had only “put on some good weight earier in the season” instead of pursuing the 141 spot for as long as he did. It wouldn’t have happened, imo . . . And at the very least, as a coach, I would not gamble the quality of my relationship with the wrestler over the next 5 years by dictating in season 1 whether I believe he is good enough to be allowed to pursue the spot of his choice — for Cael & Co., it would be entirely inconsistent with their approach over all these years with all those champs and all those championships.
Whether PSU was grabbing another team title last season was going to depend on a lot of things going right, and qualifying 149 was going make a difference only if a key upset or injury parted the seas for our guy. That would have been slim odds and out of the coaches’ control. What the coaches can control is the opportunity they give their wrestlers, the support they lend, and to some extent, the relationships they build. The model has worked pretty damn well.
All those many words. And if Cael had chosen the other option (i.e., mandated that Beau go 149 earlier in the season), and JS were arguing your position that Cael should have let Beau come to his own decision slowly, does anyone believe that you would have agreed with JS? Or, do people believe you would have argued for whatever position Cael chose. If the latter, then all your words would merely reduce to “in Cael we trust.”
After AC beat Moore, I was in the Cassar camp at the time, but the case for Shak on paper was stronger.
Well, had Cassar won the 197 job outright or been our choice for Bigs and Nationals, he probably doesn't move up to heavy, and misses the chance to be an all time historical figure.
I am good with that.
Well, had Cassar won the 197 job outright or been our choice for Bigs and Nationals, he probably doesn't move up to heavy, and misses the chance to be an all time historical figure.
I am good with that.
It seems like you are questioning my motives, Welder. It also seems you do not like my use of words. Would those suppositions be accurate?
Also, it goes without saying that I have no way of knowing what “anyone” or “people” believe I would or would not have done in your hypothetical scenarios. What is your motive for asking me those questions?
kind of but not really. he had enough matches. what he missed was an opportunity to register a win over a non-winless d1 starter. he didn’t get the wildcard because he had zero quality wins. the extra matches at 149 wouldn’t have helped his case much.
So here's the hole in that logic: he apparently wasn't ready to start at 149.
Bartlett's first match at 149 was an extra match on 2/14 vs. Michigan. Bearclaw started that dual vs. Storr. The previous duals: Verk 1/30 vs. Indiana; Bearclaw 1/30 vs. NW; Gardner 2/2 vs. Wisconsin.
This thread has gone off the rails. We had four national champs last year. FOUR NATIONAL CHAMPS. We’re questioning our coach when we had four national champs???? Credit Iowa for winning it against a team with four champs.
And we’re questioning the coach’s decision FOUR YEARS AGO at 197 when we won nationals with 141.5 points? Cassar beating Moore in the dual was one of my all time favorite moments. But Rasheed was a bonus point machine that year. He was 17-2 before big tens with 16 wins by bonus. Either way, we won Nationals.
And we’re questioning the coach’s decision FOUR YEARS AGO at 197 when we won nationals with 141.5 points? Cassar beating Moore in the dual was one of my all time favorite moments. But Rasheed was a bonus point machine that year. He was 17-2 before big tens with 16 wins by bonus. Either way, we won Nationals.
and the other thing with cassar/shak was that neither were in any danger of not qualifying. both had quality wins at 197 and had proven to be aa caliber point scorers. it's easier to just err on the side of the wrestle off winner in that situation. i think the determining factor ended up being that shak was pinning everybody going in the postseason.
sometimes a coach has to make a tough decision for the good of the team. another example from a couple years ago was the Jim Wilson/Peter Galli situation at 174. Wilson was a returning AA who missed a ton of time due to injury. Galli wrestled and earned the berth for the conference. At the end, they had a wrestle off and Wilson won. But if Galli didn't go, the conference loses the bid and only gets 2. The semi opponent was Zahid. The Stanford coaches knowingly cost the team a NQ by sending Wilson instead of Galli because he had a zero percent shot at beating Zahid and qualifying. That's a dereliction of duty as a coach. Tyler Clark beat Tony Ramos at wrestle offs. Ramos got the spot. The examples go on and on (including apparently Cael choosing Beau last year despite losing the wrestle off).
No that's not a hole. The error isn't Bartlett specific. The starter, whether it was Verk, Bearclaw, or Beau, should have been locked in early so they could wrestle the full slate and have as many opportunities to build their resume as possible. I don't even know if Beau was the best guy. That may have been a second mistake by Cael to compound his first.
I don't know how anybody could look at the way 149 was handled last year and say with a straight face Cael would do it the same way all over again if he had the chance.
I find it difficult to believe that:
1) Coach Sanderson gave any thought to what would be needed to ensure a wild card selection for a wrestler unable to qualify at Big Tens;
2.) Coach Sanderson should have been thinking about what would be needed to qualify as a wild card if unable to qualify at Big Tens
3.) Anyone thinks difference-making points would be scored at NCAAs by a wrestler needing a wild card to qualify
and that would be a mistake on his part. we've seen guys go on runs over and over again at ncaa's. the guy who knocked bartlett out of big tens took 3rd as a 26 seed. you're just proving the point.
Thought I’d taken moment to pat myself on the back here….although didn’t take a genius to predict Jersey Nick’s announcement would involve shirtless pic
Kemdog has been busy applying for Medicare and picking up some extra ER’s in his last name 😁
Kemerer was home this summer and Nolf invited him to State College for a few days. While working out at Taylor's place Kemerer got to go a few rounds with Starocci. He begged Marinelli to switch weights with him, but Marinelli refuses. Ron Young is Brands' son-in-law so back to 157 is a no go. He has been in the steam room since and isn't coming out until he can weigh in at 149.
