Two Questions Regarding 197

[Lion-around]

1. The sites that rank wrestlers (Flo, Intermat, Track, etc.) will only rank one wrestler in each weight class per school. Clearly I'm referring to Penn State's situation regarding Rasheed and Cassar. Why is that? If it is for generating tournament points for their rankings, why not do what the Scuffle does - just factor in for tournament points the top ranked of the two wrestlers from that school. Rasheed and Cassar both should be ranked; only the higher ranked of the two gets factored into tournament points. Don't understand the inability to rank both.

2. Cael has to make a decision on who will represent Penn State at 197. Once that decision is made that wrestler is Penn State's selection for both the B1G and NCAA tournaments. For the wrestler that isn't selected, could the NCAA select that wrestler for an at large slot and they wrestle unattached at nationals? My feeling is if they're highly ranked they should be eligible to go, but my gut tells me there is a reason it can't happen.

 

[86PSUPaul]

To answer point two, no, only one person per weight per team and decided at conference tournament.

 

[Cowbell Man]

Your answer to #1 lies in #2. Per NCAA regulations; A team can only send one wrestler per weight at Conference and NCAA. Since “there can be only one” (pop culture Highlander reference) it makes sense to only rank one wrestler.

 

[86PSUPaul]

LOVE Highlander!!! Including the first TV series too.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I just hope whomever Cael selects stays healthy throughout. Imagine the second guessing and boards blowing up if the one he selects gets hurt. No clear choice here either as both have a history of injuries. Either will AA at worst, and at best make a run for the podium. We need the points with or without the bonus that Shak can bring.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

My thoughts on your first question:

Flo recently discussed this on the FRL about PSU 197. Both Willie and CP laughed at the guy who wrote in and said why not rank both Cassar and Rasheed. They made it sound like it was an absurd/dumb question to ask and it absolutely should not be done.

Well then we need to ask what's the purpose of rankings to begin with? It's simply a mechanism of ordering guys based on their performances in matches. It's a way for the viewer/fans to know how good a wrestler is and who the favorite/underdog is. The rankings done by Flo have zilch to do with NCAA seeding.

There is absolutely no reason why both Cassar and Rasheed shouldn't be ranked. Everyone universally understands and agrees that both guys are top 10 wrestlers at 197 right now if not top 5 (or possibly even 1 and 2). Why would we exclude one guy from the ranking just because they're on the same team? That defeats the entire purpose of rankings to begin with. So there is one guy that every single fan knows is a top 10 wrestler, but he's not listed in the rankings? Well then you're rankings are wrong.

Flo rankings should try to represent reality as closely as possible. It doesn't affect seeding. Just rank both guys.

The Flo guys couldn't be more wrong on this discussion.

 

[nerfstate]

My thoughts on your first question:

Flo recently discussed this on the FRL about PSU 197. Both Willie and CP laughed at the guy who wrote in and said why not rank both Cassar and Rasheed. They made it sound like it was an absurd/dumb question to ask and it absolutely should not be done.

Well then we need to ask what's the purpose of rankings to begin with? It's simply a mechanism of ordering guys based on their performances in matches. It's a way for the viewer/fans to know how good a wrestler is and who the favorite/underdog is. The rankings done by Flo have zilch to do with NCAA seeding.

There is absolutely no reason why both Cassar and Rasheed shouldn't be ranked. Everyone universally understands and agrees that both guys are top 10 wrestlers at 197 right now if not top 5 (or possibly even 1 and 2). Why would we exclude one guy from the ranking just because they're on the same team? That defeats the entire purpose of rankings to begin with. So there is one guy that every single fan knows is a top 10 wrestler, but he's not listed in the rankings? Well then you're rankings are wrong.

Flo rankings should try to represent reality as closely as possible. It doesn't affect seeding. Just rank both guys.

The Flo guys couldn't be more wrong on this discussion.

You get a lot of grief on this board, so props to you for this fair take. They just need to add a clause to their spreadsheet formula that only scores the highest ranked wrestler for team ranking....

 

[El-Jefe]

If my team rankings were a sum if team points derived from individual rankings, then I'm ranking max 1 per team at each weight.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

If my team rankings were a sum if team points derived from individual rankings, then I'm ranking max 1 per team at each weight.

Nerfstate above just explained how to solve that problem.

 

[tikk10]

My thoughts on your first question:

Flo recently discussed this on the FRL about PSU 197. Both Willie and CP laughed at the guy who wrote in and said why not rank both Cassar and Rasheed. They made it sound like it was an absurd/dumb question to ask and it absolutely should not be done.

Well then we need to ask what's the purpose of rankings to begin with? It's simply a mechanism of ordering guys based on their performances in matches. It's a way for the viewer/fans to know how good a wrestler is and who the favorite/underdog is. The rankings done by Flo have zilch to do with NCAA seeding.

There is absolutely no reason why both Cassar and Rasheed shouldn't be ranked. Everyone universally understands and agrees that both guys are top 10 wrestlers at 197 right now if not top 5 (or possibly even 1 and 2). Why would we exclude one guy from the ranking just because they're on the same team? That defeats the entire purpose of rankings to begin with. So there is one guy that every single fan knows is a top 10 wrestler, but he's not listed in the rankings? Well then you're rankings are wrong.

Flo rankings should try to represent reality as closely as possible. It doesn't affect seeding. Just rank both guys.

The Flo guys couldn't be more wrong on this discussion.

Good point. Most rankings, including Flo's, don't include redshirts, so it's governed by similar logic: not eligible to wrestle in NCAAs? Can't be ranked. Teams can only send one wrestler to NCAA? Only rank one. Former makes sense, latter makes less sense because either could still wrestle at NCAAs.

Would make sense for the coaches' rankings to only include one because that ranking is ultimately used to seed, but even there you could drop the guy who doesn't get selected. But other services should include both.

 

[El-Jefe]

Nerfstate above just explained how to solve that problem.

Yeah, except I'm not interested in writing macros or manually reworking spreadsheets weekly to compensate.

 

[NoVa Lion]

I just hope whomever Cael selects stays healthy throughout. Imagine the second guessing and boards blowing up if the one he selects gets hurt. No clear choice here either as both have a history of injuries. Either will AA at worst, and at best make a run for the podium. We need the points with or without the bonus that Shak can bring.

Trying to figure out what you mean with the bolded part because it makes no sense to me. The worst and the best they could do is the same?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Yeah, except I'm not interested in writing macros or manually reworking spreadsheets weekly to compensate.

It would be incredibly simple to do. Take literally a couple minutes. And why do you say you're not interested? Are you the flo employee responsible for updating the rankings?

 

[jschrantz]

Trying to figure out what you mean with the bolded part because it makes no sense to me. The worst and the best they could do is the same?

I think he doesn’t understand making the podium doesn’t necessarily mean winning it all.

I’d also note that at worst either one could miss AA honors

 

[Cowbell Man]

My thoughts on your first question:

Flo recently discussed this on the FRL about PSU 197. Both Willie and CP laughed at the guy who wrote in and said why not rank both Cassar and Rasheed. They made it sound like it was an absurd/dumb question to ask and it absolutely should not be done.

Well then we need to ask what's the purpose of rankings to begin with? It's simply a mechanism of ordering guys based on their performances in matches. It's a way for the viewer/fans to know how good a wrestler is and who the favorite/underdog is. The rankings done by Flo have zilch to do with NCAA seeding.

There is absolutely no reason why both Cassar and Rasheed shouldn't be ranked. Everyone universally understands and agrees that both guys are top 10 wrestlers at 197 right now if not top 5 (or possibly even 1 and 2). Why would we exclude one guy from the ranking just because they're on the same team? That defeats the entire purpose of rankings to begin with. So there is one guy that every single fan knows is a top 10 wrestler, but he's not listed in the rankings? Well then you're rankings are wrong.

Flo rankings should try to represent reality as closely as possible. It doesn't affect seeding. Just rank both guys.

The Flo guys couldn't be more wrong on this discussion.

I could go with that.

I don’t know about the ‘more wrong’ part, other than the original question most assuredly is not dumb.

Sure. Rank all wrestlers that are actually wrestling. Just because one ranking service chooses to do it doesn’t mean the others do, and I would click on it. So.....

Meanwhile I recall one service used to rank the RS wrestlers. There aren’t medals at the end of the season for them but the list was interesting for sure. I would not include RS’ing wrestlers on a Varsity list though.

I’ll go with Vodka on this. Then beer

 

[El-Jefe]

It would be incredibly simple to do. Take literally a couple minutes. And why do you say you're not interested? Are you the flo employee responsible for updating the rankings?

Did my initial post on the topic not begin with the word "if"?

 

[86PSUPaul]

Trying to figure out what you mean with the bolded part because it makes no sense to me. The worst and the best they could do is the same?

It is a bit confusing since AA's are on the podium, but I believe he feels worst case is AA, best case is top 3 (ie Olympic style podiums).

Thanks for the nice words Vodka!

 

[nerfstate]

Did my initial post on the topic not begin with the word "if"?

You'd also wind up having to answer questions about your team rankings even more often (I'm sure the flo dudes would love that....)

Really, I don't care all that much about rankings, but it would be nice to feel like you're seeing an accurate representation of the top guys out there, and in our lovely predicament at 197, that isn't the case.

 

[Dogwelder]

Yeah, except I'm not interested in writing macros or manually reworking spreadsheets weekly to compensate.

Exactly! Those Flo guys are just lazy! They are charging money so they should not be lazy. (In contrast, your posts are still free, so you’re allowed to be lazy. )

 

[nerfstate]

If Flo want to pay me to make their spreadsheets for them, consider this my application.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Did my initial post on the topic not begin with the word "if"?

Sure, but if you're familiar with Excel it would take literally a couple of minutes to do this. And Flo is getting paid to do the rankings so I don't see that as a reasonable hold up.