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USA vs Canada hockey

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bcspsu said:
It was an upset and probably a great one, but that USA team had several players who went on to have long and very good NHL careers like Ken Morrow, Mike Ramsey, Neil Broten, Mrk Johnson, and some others. The reason why it was a great upset is because the USA was a college All Star team that beat a pseudo pro team that had played together for years. If that same game had been played a few years later, it might have been considered to be such an upset but not a great one because several of those USA players had become establshed NHL players.
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Nah. There is no watering down that upset. The guys you named had solid careers, but there were no eventual superstars like the US is churning out now. Plus, they were so young. The Soviet Red Army team was incredible and had hammered NHL all star teams - embarrassed them at times. It was a monumental upset.

www.espn.com

Why 1980 Soviets were best international hockey team ever

There's a reason the shocking U.S. triumph in the 1980 Olympics is called a miracle. The Soviet Union team that the Americans beat was the greatest international hockey team of all time.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

An excerpt from an ESPN piece:

“How good? In February 1979, they faced an NHL All-Star team that featured an astounding 20future Hall of Famers in a three-game series. The Soviets won two of the matchups, including Game 3 at Madison Square Garden in a 6-0 rout.

In Eric Zweig's book, "Twenty Greatest Hockey Goals," Fetisov said the 1980 team was "probably the best team ever put together in the Soviet Union. We never thought of losing, never thought it could happen. That's why they call it a miracle."

The NHLers were the only ones really able to put up a fight. For example, the Finns played 66 games against their eastern neighbor between Jan. 1, 1970, and Dec. 31, 1980. They won two times and tied once.

"They dominated the game," said Juhani Tamminen, a former Team Finland captain who played in the WHA. "It's almost not even up to discussion. In their time, they were superior to everybody else."

Here’s a summary of the team’s post Olympics career from an NHL perspective.

 
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PurposePitch said:
I love reading a good, faked-up Obliviax story ... but even by Obliviax's Tommy Flanagan standards, this one is a doozy. An "I knew a guy" Obliviax story is like one of those books where you try to find the hidden images on each page ... how many lies/inaccuracies can you spot?

This one involves an NBA star who was once a central figure in a point-shaving scandal, once again risking his freedom by committing felonies, allegedly to save on some real estate taxes. This might be one of Obliviax's most baseless, lie-filled yarns yet.

Williams' contract didn't include a $16M signing bonus. It was $4M. The entire contract was 7 years for $26.5M total (a top 5 contract at the time). The Cavs didn't front-end the contract to meet some NBA team-minimum ... in fact, the Cavs were OVER the salary cap that year (the Williams signing allowed them to do that because they were retaining a vet, and that was an exception to the cap) and had the HIGHEST team payroll in the NBA that year. Williams had been originally drafted by the Cavs in the 2nd round, so his first contract was peanuts, and he never signed another contract with the Cavs, beyond the first one and then the 7-year one - he was traded away during that 7-year deal and never returned.

Seeing as Obliviax's imaginary $16M doesn't exist (the $4M signing bonus and first year's salary weren't close to $16M), the rest of the story has already been debunked ... as the math is no longer mathing.

Now, I'm not familiar with RITA ... but virtually no residence-based tax is going to let you skate entirely if you lived in a taxable area for around half the year (contract signed during the summer). So there would be no reason to go nuts and commit felonies in order to expedite the house-hunting process, if he was choosing to relocate.

I looked up the RITA tax rates, and, by far, the most common rates listed were 0% and 1%. 2% was pretty common. 2.5% was very rare. Of course, this all could have been very different back then ... but I doubt it (it's Obliviax we're talking about here). Property taxes are also comparatively high in that county, so any RITA tax advantage that would be gained would be at least partially offset by the property tax.

I just don't get why he consistently makes up fairy tales like this. It must be a compulsion.
Click to expand...
LOL...you are so slow.

Where he lived RITA was 2.5% so he wanted to buy a home in a non-RITA location. he lived there throughout the contract. So had he stayed where he was living before, he'd have paid 2.5% against a $27+ m contract so I understated the benefit. It was really $675,000. I knew Hot Rod, played off-season ball with him a few times, and knew his next-door neighbor. My son went to high school with Larry Nance's sons at Revere High School. I am very good friends with a guy who used to help him with his investments. I played with him, pickup games, on several occasions during the off-season.

here is something you don't know. Hot Rod grew up in a cabin with a literal dirt floor. He wasn't very smart, honestly. Someone approached him and gave him a box full of cash, over $8k. he didn't know what it was for. When the feds found out about the money, they arrested Hot Rod. The Cavs knew the charges were bullshit so they drafted him even though the NBA recommended against it. Hot Rod was acquitted of all charges and went on to have a very good NBA career.

I didn't feel the need to go into a deep analysis of the rural and urban implications of RITA tax in Ohio. I didn't feel the need to talk about the salary cap and why the Miami Heat offered him a massive and front-loaded contract. You, like the idiot you are, the troll, decided to fact-check me. Fine. The only thing I got wrong was the upfront cash payment but the overall point of my post was spot on. There is a reason why you are on ignore. I am not sure why I opened this post because it is as dumb, pedantic and ill-informed as all of your others.
 
Chickenman Testa said:
Nah. There is no watering down that upset. The guys you named had solid careers, but there were no eventual superstars like the US is churning out now. Plus, they were so young. The Soviet Red Army team was incredible and had hammered NHL all star teams - embarrassed them at times. It was a monumental upset.

www.espn.com

Why 1980 Soviets were best international hockey team ever

There's a reason the shocking U.S. triumph in the 1980 Olympics is called a miracle. The Soviet Union team that the Americans beat was the greatest international hockey team of all time.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

An excerpt from an ESPN piece:

“How good? In February 1979, they faced an NHL All-Star team that featured an astounding 20future Hall of Famers in a three-game series. The Soviets won two of the matchups, including Game 3 at Madison Square Garden in a 6-0 rout.

In Eric Zweig's book, "Twenty Greatest Hockey Goals," Fetisov said the 1980 team was "probably the best team ever put together in the Soviet Union. We never thought of losing, never thought it could happen. That's why they call it a miracle."

The NHLers were the only ones really able to put up a fight. For example, the Finns played 66 games against their eastern neighbor between Jan. 1, 1970, and Dec. 31, 1980. They won two times and tied once.

"They dominated the game," said Juhani Tamminen, a former Team Finland captain who played in the WHA. "It's almost not even up to discussion. In their time, they were superior to everybody else."

Here’s a summary of the team’s post Olympics career from an NHL perspective.

Click to expand...
It should be noted that the Soviet team were mature men while the USA team were kids. But my point is that the Soviets didn't really play in the NHL until the mid 80s and not mainstream until 1989. So most of those Soviet players either never played or were on the tail end of their careers.

I guess my point is, while several of those USA kids had good/great NHL careers, they were never really measured against the Soviet 1980 players.
 
Obliviax said:
It should be noted that the Soviet team were mature men while the USA team were kids. But my point is that the Soviets didn't really play in the NHL until the mid 80s and not mainstream until 1989. So most of those Soviet players either never played or were on the tail end of their careers.

I guess my point is, while several of those USA kids had good/great NHL careers, they were never really measured against the Soviet 1980 players.
Click to expand...
I was addressing bcpsu’s post. There’s no debating the enormity of the upset. Throwing out a meat and potatoes guy good guy like Neil Broten - but when he was still a collegiate - and comparing to all timers like Tretiak, Fetisov, Karmalov, etc. The Soviet team was like the Dream Team if the Dream Team had played together for years instead of being thrown together for a few months.
 
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Chickenman Testa said:
I was addressing bcpsu’s post. There’s no debating the enormity of the upset. Throwing out a meat and potatoes guy good guy like Neil Broten - but when he was still a collegiate - and comparing to all timers like Tretiak, Fetisov, Karmalov, etc. The Soviet team was like the Dream Team if the Dream Team had played together for years instead of being thrown together for a few months.
Click to expand...
I accept your argument. However, I looked it up and Neal Broten scored 289 goals and had 634 assists in the NHL; he was a pretty useful player.

Of the Russian players who played on that team, Larionov, Fetisov and Kasotonov had good to very good NHL careers, and Makarov was decent for the Sharks, but that was about it; Krutov flamed out in the NHL because he became overweight.
 
bcspsu said:
I accept your argument. However, I looked it up and Neal Broten scored 289 goals and had 634 assists in the NHL; he was a pretty useful player.

Of the Russian players who played on that team, Larionov, Fetisov and Kasotonov had good to very good NHL careers, and Makarov was decent for the Sharks, but that was about it; Krutov flamed out in the NHL because he became overweight.
Click to expand...
I agree. But just taking Fetisov as an example, he didn't play his first NHL game until he was 31. Now, that is probably late prime for an NHL player but it probably took him a year or two to get used to the differences in NHL hockey, rinks, and teammates. Larionov started at age 29 so he was a bit younger. In contrast, Connor McDavid is 28. Imagine him not even starting his NHL career until next year. My point is that these were guys who were great players and had they come up in the NHL as teens, like most of the great players, they'd be some of the best of all time.
 
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LandoComando said:
No McAvoy for the Americans...bad news
Click to expand...
I heard on Mark Madden's Show a little while ago that there's a chance that the US will add Quinn Hughes to take his place if Hughes is healthy; he would've been on this time if he hadn't been injured, as he's the reigning Norris Trophy winner. Regardless, yes, the loss of McAvoy is huge because he's one of the few physical defensemen on the US roster, and his hit on McDavid changed Saturday's game.
 
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bcspsu said:
I accept your argument. However, I looked it up and Neal Broten scored 289 goals and had 634 assists in the NHL; he was a pretty useful player.

Of the Russian players who played on that team, Larionov, Fetisov and Kasotonov had good to very good NHL careers, and Makarov was decent for the Sharks, but that was about it; Krutov flamed out in the NHL because he became overweight.
Click to expand...
They weren’t released to play in the NHL for 9 years - after 89 worlds, so only the younger guys on that 1980 team even had a chance of having any kind of career here. No Mikhailov, Kharlamov, Maltzev, Lebedev, Tretiak - just the babies on that team. The true core of guys who skated circles around North American opponents never got released to play in the NHL.

When they were at their best, they flowed like water.
 
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m.knox said:
Oh man, I thought it was over.... I'm definitely putting that on.
Click to expand...
Thursday is the championship.

This is a special tournament instead of an all star game. Professional NHL players are playing for their country similar to the Olympics. But it was only four teams. First time they did this in ten years,

All teams played a round robin series and
USA snd Canada now meet on the finals. Gonna be epic!
 
Last edited:
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bcspsu said:
I heard on Mark Madden's Show a little while ago that there's a chance that the US will add Quinn Hughes to take his place if Hughes is healthy; he would've been on this time if he hadn't been injured, as he's the reigning Norris Trophy winner. Regardless, yes, the loss of McAvoy is huge because he's one of the few physical defensemen on the US roster, and his hit on McDavid changed Saturday's game.
Click to expand...
Hughes is a nice replacement if that happens--but, yes, to your point, McAvoy's physicality is almost impossible for them to replace.
 
LandoComando said:
Hughes is a nice replacement if that happens--but, yes, to your point, McAvoy's physicality is almost impossible for them to replace.
Click to expand...
Hughes was added, but only can play if another defenseman can't. Jake Sanderson as a replacement for McAvoy doesn't fill me with confidence.
 
Aardvark86 said:
Prediction (you heard it here first): if us wins, Trump will tweet out congratulations for winning the “three nations” face off.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
Obliviax said:
LOL...you are so slow.

Where he lived RITA was 2.5% so he wanted to buy a home in a non-RITA location. he lived there throughout the contract. So had he stayed where he was living before, he'd have paid 2.5% against a $27+ m contract so I understated the benefit. It was really $675,000. I knew Hot Rod, played off-season ball with him a few times, and knew his next-door neighbor. My son went to high school with Larry Nance's sons at Revere High School. I am very good friends with a guy who used to help him with his investments. I played with him, pickup games, on several occasions during the off-season.

here is something you don't know. Hot Rod grew up in a cabin with a literal dirt floor. He wasn't very smart, honestly. Someone approached him and gave him a box full of cash, over $8k. he didn't know what it was for. When the feds found out about the money, they arrested Hot Rod. The Cavs knew the charges were bullshit so they drafted him even though the NBA recommended against it. Hot Rod was acquitted of all charges and went on to have a very good NBA career.

I didn't feel the need to go into a deep analysis of the rural and urban implications of RITA tax in Ohio. I didn't feel the need to talk about the salary cap and why the Miami Heat offered him a massive and front-loaded contract. You, like the idiot you are, the troll, decided to fact-check me. Fine. The only thing I got wrong was the upfront cash payment but the overall point of my post was spot on. There is a reason why you are on ignore. I am not sure why I opened this post because it is as dumb, pedantic and ill-informed as all of your others.
Click to expand...

Dude ... I blew up your entire post, and exposed a bunch of your lies, and I'm supposed to be slow? That means you're catatonic, Tommy Flanagan.

You said the Cavs massively front-loaded the contract. They didn't. That was a lie.

You said they front-loaded the contract to meet league minimum team salaries. They didn't. In fact, they had the highest team salary that year. That was a lie.

You said the signing bonus was $16M toward that end ... that was a lie. It was $4M.

You used the $16M figure because you wanted to claim that amount, multiplied by the RITA rate, was exactly what the minimum home purchase price ... and that was obviously a lie, too.

You claimed they were in a rush to get this done so he could get the full difference ... getting the house for "free" ... and that was a lie. It would barely make any difference if the home purchase took weeks, or months. And he certainly wouldn't be bribing people (i.e. committing felonies) toward this end.

You said most areas in Ohio have a 2.5% RITA ... and, they clearly don't. Not even close. That's a lie.

Oh, and here's another lie ... Hot Rod wasn't looking to purchase in Bath. He lived in Copley. Nance lived in Bath.

So now that the central thesis of your story was proven a lie, you expect anyone to believe anything else you have to say on the subject?

The thing is ALL of your stories have lies and/or inaccuracies in them. It's crazy.
 
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