Weekly Review of Rankings, for 12/6/16

[Tom McAndrew]

I'll update this post as the rankings appear on the various web sites, and then make a post when all have been posted/updated.

InterMat
125: Suriano - 4th (6th)
133: Cortez - 15th (12th)
141: Gulibon - 13th (15th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 9th (10th)
174: Rasheed - 14th (12th)
184: Nickal - 2nd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 13th (13th)
285: Nevills - 8th (7th)
Tournament - 3rd (3rd)
Dual - 4th (4th)

FloWrestling
125: Suriano - 4th (10th)
133: Cortez - 13th (9th)
141: No PSUer (Gulibon - 20th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 11th (10th)
174: Rasheed - 16th (Morelli - 12th)
184: Nickal - 2nd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 6th (7th)
285: Nevills - 8th (8th)
P4P:
Zain - 2nd (2nd)
Nolf - 4th (4th)
Nickal - 12th (13th)
Team - 3rd (4th)
Dual - 4th (4th)

The Open Mat
125: Suriano - 5th (9th)
133: Cortez - 16th (13th)
141: Gulibon - 20th (20th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 8th (9th)
174: Morelli - 13th (13th)
184: Nickal - 3rd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 7th (7th)
285: Nevills - 8th (5th)

USA Today/NWCA Division I Coaches Poll
PSU - 2nd (2nd)

WIN Magazine
125: Suriano - 5th (8th)
133: Cortez - 20th (15th)
141: No PSUer (No PSUer)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 7th (10th)
174: Morelli - 12th (11th)
184: Nickal - 3rd (4th)
197: Cutch - 12th (15th)
285: Nevills - 4th (6th)
Team - 2nd (5th)
Dual - 2nd (1st week for the Dual ranking)

Amateur Wrestling News
125: Suriano - 4th (7th)
133: No PSUer (Cortez - 17th)
141: Gulibon - 15th (17th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 8th (8th)
174: Morelli - 13th (12th)
184: Nickal - 2nd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 11th (13th)
285: Nevills - 4th (7th)

Associated Wrestling Press
125: Suriano - 5th (11th)
133: Cortez - 17th (no PSUer)
141: Gulibon - 13th (13th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 15th (14th)
174: No PSUer (Rasheed - 19th)
184: Nickal - 2nd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 5th (5th)
285: Nevills - 9th (8th)
P4P
Zain - 4th (4th)
Nolf - 6th (6th)
Nickal - 8th (8th)
Team - 2nd (2nd)

Dual Impact Index p/b @NCOWreslting
1st week of the rankings, so no last week's ranking in parenthesis
125: Suriano - 4th
133: Cortez - 14th
141: Gulibon - 27th, Dominic Giannangeli - 51st
149: Zain - 1st, Gary Dinmore - 26th
157: Nolf - 1st
165: Joseph - 8th
174: Morelli - 10th, Mark Hall - 10th, Shakur Rasheed - 11th, Francisco Bisono - 45th
184: Nickal - 2nd, Devon Van Cura - 53rd
197: Cutch - 3rd, Kellan Stout - 37th
285: Nevills - 2nd
P4P:
Zain - 6th
Nickal - 7th
Nolf - 10th
Nevills - 12th
Suriano - 32nd
Joseph - 42nd
Morelli - 61st
Cutch - 62nd
Cortez - 129th
Gulibon - 250th

WrestleStat
125: Nick Suriano - 18th (29th), K. Yanovich - 92nd (91st), Patrick Higgins - 128th (125th), Devin Schnupp - 185th (183rd), (241st), Justin Lopez - 195th (193rd), Scott Stossel - 199th (200th)
133: Cortez - 5th (5th), T. Law - 64th (64th), Mason Lindemuth - 128th (126th), George Carpenter - 197th (199th))
141: Gulibon - 13th (15th), Kade Moss - 32nd (32nd), Bo Pipher - 157th (154th), Dom Giannangeli - 190th (192nd), Brian Friery - 260th (264th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st), Gary Dinmore - 62nd (61st), Luke Gardner - 195th (194th)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 8th (8th), Byran Brill - 23rd (23rd), Caleb Livingston - 165th (165th)
174: Rasheed - 23rd (20th), Geno Morelli - 33rd (33rd), Mark Hall - 36th (37th), Francisco Bisono - 98th (93rd) ,
184: Nickal - 2nd (2nd), Devon Van Cura - 73rd (72nd)
197: Cutch - 4th (4th), Kellan Stout - 33rd (33rd), Cassar - 85th (82nd)
285: Nevills - 32nd (34th), Alex Nicholas - 174th (173rd), Jan Johnson - 229th (227th)
Tournament - 1st (2nd)
Dual - 2nd (2nd)

Average
Week 2 of the Average. The Dual Impact Index makes its first appearance in the Average. It's a computer-generated ranking, so it will be treated as such. A reminder that a wrestler must appear in half of the rankings to appear in the Average. Morelli appears in 4 of the 8, so he appears at 174. Shakur appears in 3 of the 8, so he does not appear at 174. Also, as the computer generated rankings often are more inaccurate (or whatever you'd like to call it) at the beginning of the season, I'll indicate the Average without and with the computer generated rankings. The two averages are not all that different at this point.
Without Computer Generated Included
125: Suriano - 5th (9th)
133: Cortez - 16th (13th)
141: Gulibon - 15th (17th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 10th (10th)
174: Morelli - 13th (12th)
184: Nickal - 2nd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 9th (7th)
285: Nevills - 7th (7th)
Team: 2nd (3rd)
With Computer Generated Included
125: Suriano - 6th (11th)
133: Cortez - 14th (12th)
141: Gulibon - 17th (17th)
149: Zain - 1st (1st)
157: Nolf - 1st (1st)
165: Joseph - 9th (10th)
174: Morelli - 12th (16th)
184: Nickal - 2nd (3rd)
197: Cutch - 8th (9th)
285: Nevills - 9th (11th)
Team - 2nd (3rd)



InterMat's 12/6 Rankings

FloWrestling's 12/5 Rankings

The Open Mat's 12/6 Rankings

USA Today/NWCA Division I Coaches Poll for 12/6

WIN Magazine's 12/5 Rankings

Amateur Wrestling News's 12/6 Rankings

Associated Wrestling Press's 12/6 Rankings

Dual Impact Index p/b @NCOWrestling 12/5 Rankings

WrestleStat's 12/6 Rankings

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Fully updated, and Average generated.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

So, Kroells not wrestling is better than an 8-4 decision over #11 in your own poll, according to Intermat.

Kroells goes 8 to 6. Nevills goes 7 to 8.

 

[slushhead]

So, Kroells not wrestling is better than an 8-4 decision over #11 in your own poll, according to Intermat.

Kroells goes 8 to 6. Nevills goes 7 to 8.

Kroells beat Sasquatch for 3rd place at CKLV this past weekend. They have now split two matches this season. Not sure how that bumps Kroells up 2 spots while Sasquatch stays put at #4, forcing Nevills down a spot (Intermat). In the meantime, Stoll hasn't wrestled a match, isn't expected to until 2nd semester, and no one can say what he'll look like with the knee when he takes the mat . . . but they can say his #5 spot is untouchable (for some reason). Makes perfect sense, right?

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Stoll hasn't wrestled a match, isn't expected to until 2nd semester, and no one can say what he'll look like with the knee when he takes the mat . . . but they can say his #5 spot is untouchable (for some reason). Makes perfect sense, right?

Vais/CP and Willie touched on this issue (leaving someone in when injured) on today's FRL They think it's the right thing to do. It's one way to approach things. It does create problems as you mentioned with Stoll, or with Minotti, who Intermat has 5th at 165 despite his still being out. I'm sure I could find more examples.

The opposite approach is used by The Open Mat. Their policy is: "Athletes who are known to be redshirting, injured for a prolonged amount of time or are known to be coming back the second semester are not ranked. During the season, wrestlers who miss two weeks of scheduled competition (excluding opens), will be removed from the rankings (with some exceptions based on available information). They will be returned to the rankings when they compete." So their rankings at 165 don't include Minotti, or at 285 don't include Stoll.

 

[NittanyLion84]

Vais/CP and Willie touched on this issue (leaving someone in when injured) on today's FRL They think it's the right thing to do. It's one way to approach things. It does create problems as you mentioned with Stoll, or with Minotti, who Intermat has 5th at 165 despite his still being out. I'm sure I could find more examples.

The opposite approach is used by The Open Mat. Their policy is: "Athletes who are known to be redshirting, injured for a prolonged amount of time or are known to be coming back the second semester are not ranked. During the season, wrestlers who miss two weeks of scheduled competition (excluding opens), will be removed from the rankings (with some exceptions based on available information). They will be returned to the rankings when they compete." So in their rankings at 165 don't include Minotti, or at 285 don't include Stoll.

I agree with the Open Mat approach on this and I think that elite true freshman should start out in the high teens.

 

[slushhead]

Indeed, I lean toward the "leave them out until they show where they are" approach. Bo Jordan is another 2016 example.

Some might expect Jordan, Stoll, and Minotti to come back in January without missing a beat . . . but there are enough examples in history (Delgado, Alton, H. Stieber) that I wouldn't make that assumption. Not ready to take the mat? Not ready to receive a rank, IMO. Of course, I am from the Show Me State originally.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Kroells beat Sasquatch for 3rd place at CKLV this past weekend. They have now split two matches this season. Not sure how that bumps Kroells up 2 spots while Sasquatch stays put at #4, forcing Nevills down a spot (Intermat). In the meantime, Stoll hasn't wrestled a match, isn't expected to until 2nd semester, and no one can say what he'll look like with the knee when he takes the mat . . . but they can say his #5 spot is untouchable (for some reason). Makes perfect sense, right?

Ah, crap, I forgot the CKLV, because Wrestlestats didn't get it input yet. But, yeah, still doesn't make complete sense.

 

[RoarLions1]

I love all the rankings, all their rules, all their explanations, and all the discussion afterwards.

 

[Ja1339]

Perhaps we should be looking at Vegas odds for the true rankings . Just kidding

 

[RoarLions1]

Perhaps we should be looking at Vegas odds for the true rankings . Just kidding

They'd be just as wrong...not kidding .

 

[PSU Mike]

So we've got a guy in the top 16 at each weight by any reasonable standard. I'd like to see those mid- teeners rise into top 12 by February and see what happens in March.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

So we've got a guy in the top 16 at each weight by any reasonable standard. I'd like to see those mid- teeners rise into top 12 by February and see what happens in March.

Sounds like you're calling my ranking of Gulibon unreasonable...

 

[jtothemfp]

Indeed, I lean toward the "leave them out until they show where they are" approach. Bo Jordan is another 2016 example.

Some might expect Jordan, Stoll, and Minotti to come back in January without missing a beat . . . but there are enough examples in history (Delgado, Alton, H. Stieber) that I wouldn't make that assumption. Not ready to take the mat? Not ready to receive a rank, IMO. Of course, I am from the Show Me State originally.

What up, Slushhead! I lean the other way. I much prefer my rankings to more closely resemble projections for March. I don't like looking at a list and having to think 'hmmm, now who is NOT on this list, but probably will be in March?' Remember when Ed Ruth wasn't ranked during the Taco Bell incident punishment? It just looks too weird.

 

[PSU Mike]

Sounds like you're calling my ranking of Gulibon unreasonable...

Haha, maybe an outlier.

 

[lobo lion]

I'm surprised InterMat ranks Missouri ahead of us in the dual rankings. Six of our 10 wrestlers are rated higher than Mizzou's in InterMat's individual rankings.

 

[slushhead]

What up, Slushhead! I lean the other way. I much prefer my rankings to more closely resemble projections for March. I don't like looking at a list and having to think 'hmmm, now who is NOT on this list, but probably will be in March?' Remember when Ed Ruth wasn't ranked during the Taco Bell incident punishment? It just looks too weird.

I hear ya man, but I have to respectfully stick with my lean. The Ruth comparison is a little apples-to-oranges. Ruth was suspended, not injured. We could all predict where he'd be upon return, assuming his head would be back on straight (probably prerequisite to Cael allowing him in the room).

But the injured guys? I think we have learned over the years that any joint or major muscle injury that keeps one out of competition for an extended period of time leads to a crapshoot when predicting where they'll stack up upon return. And where would you draw the line timing-wise? Would you have kept Nevills ranked all last season? If so, where and why? How long do you keep Bo and his mystery toe #1? Do we know enough about Clark's injury to predict that he is still the favorite to win it all?

You know what REALLY looked weird with respect to Ruth and the rankings? Ruth ranked below Dean even though everyone who was being honest with himself knew the Dean win at the Scuffle was a fluke. Well, everyone who was honest with himself and not delusional about Ed's work ethic. Cueing El Jefe's clown factory . . .

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Is anybody having trouble getting the Dual Impact Index to load? I'm hearing about some issues on other sites. Just wondering.

 

[andegre]

Is anybody having trouble getting the Dual Impact Index to load? I'm hearing about some issues on other sites. Just wondering.

It doesn't work for me, but that's because my work blocks google drive. I'm of no help to you...