When will Cael get the respect he deserves?

[Media Fan]

The legit knock on Cael (to the extent there is one) is he is cooking with the worlds best ingredients.

Recruiting is part of coaching. Yes. But strictly from a “teaching” perspective, he is tuning up Ferrari’s for the most part.

Cassar is an exception to the rule. There are guys whose names I can’t remember who transfer in as qualifiers, some PSU fans assume a year in the room makes them AAs. In reality it’s more complicated.

Ashnault once beat retherford before college. No one would dispute retherford is better now. Cael has hits and misses like everyone, but it is easier to make a good soup with great ingredients.

Where I don’t think he gets enough credit is on keeping harmony. Hall and nickal are shooting for the same international spot. David Taylor is helping guys who want his spot. That he can sustain that culture is IMO more impressive than his teaching.

So, I guess that also makes Nick Saban a mediocre.

For me, there are only two things that matter:
1. did you win
2. did you conduct yourself with a moral compass.

With few exceptions, i look at PSU wrestlers and say i would be quite happy having them marry my daughters.

and the 3rd thing that I enjoy is their faith, and I would agree with the thought that that is a very personal thing.

One of the things I most enjoy about wrestling is the kids and their incredible well -roundedness. They are amazing young men in my mind.

 

[Dogwelder]

... With few exceptions, i look at PSU wrestlers and say i would be quite happy having them marry my daughters ...

Right on! There are not enough people speaking up for polygamy these days.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

So, I guess that also makes Nick Saban a mediocre.

For me, there are only two things that matter:
1. did you win
2. did you conduct yourself with a moral compass.

With few exceptions, i look at PSU wrestlers and say i would be quite happy having them marry my daughters.

and the 3rd thing that I enjoy is their faith, and I would agree with the thought that that is a very personal thing.

One of the things I most enjoy about wrestling is the kids and their incredible well -roundedness. They are amazing young men in my mind.

I conceded that recruiting is part of coaching. I also discussed purely teaching. How much credit can Einstein's college calculus teacher take?

 

[nerfstate]

I conceded that recruiting is part of coaching. I also discussed purely teaching. How much credit can Einstein's college calculus teacher take?

It’s amazing that almost all our recruits seem to inherently know “the best far ankle defense in the country” and gifted ankle picking, and virtually all scramble situations.

 

[CholleyVandine]

The legit knock on Cael (to the extent there is one) is he is cooking with the worlds best ingredients.

Recruiting is part of coaching. Yes. But strictly from a “teaching” perspective, he is tuning up Ferrari’s for the most part.

Cassar is an exception to the rule. There are guys whose names I can’t remember who transfer in as qualifiers, some PSU fans assume a year in the room makes them AAs. In reality it’s more complicated.

Ashnault once beat retherford before college. No one would dispute retherford is better now. Cael has hits and misses like everyone, but it is easier to make a good soup with great ingredients.

Where I don’t think he gets enough credit is on keeping harmony. Hall and nickal are shooting for the same international spot. David Taylor is helping guys who want his spot. That he can sustain that culture is IMO more impressive than his teaching.

Yes, Cael has a Ferrari, but he makes it go faster than the other Ferraris.

Here's some interesting data:

Number of top 20 recruits* by school since 2009

Penn State 16
Iowa 14
Okie St 14
tOSU 12

(*I'm using the D1CW rankings because they're all collected in one place, unlike the Flo rankings. Top 20 recruits who never used a year of eligibility like Austin Ormsbee or Colin Palmer are not included in this data.)

Total number of individual years of NCAA eligibility used by those top 20 recruits

Penn State 48
Iowa 44
Okie St 39
tOSU 36

(Here's how this works: Ed Ruth was a top 20 recruit. He used all four years of eligibility at Penn State. He counts as four. Jason Nolf was a top 20 recruit. He has used three years of eligibility so far. He counts as three. Nick Suriano was a top 20 recruit. He only used one year of eligibility at Penn State before boarding the cruise liner. He counts as 1. Nate Skonieczny was a top 20 recruit but he left Iowa before he used any eligibility. He doesn't figure at all in these numbers.)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as an All American

Penn State 34 (out of 48 seasons = 77 percent)
tOSU 26 (72 percent)
Iowa 23 (52 percent)
Okie St 21 (54 percent)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as a national champion

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (25 percent)
Okie St 7 (18 percent)
Iowa 3 (7 percent)


Bring in the best kids and coach them up so they get the most out of their prodigious talents ... That's what Cael does.

Also, Matt Brown seems like a better example for you than Cassar. He was ranked 88th coming out of high school and ended up a 3x AA and national champ.

And how about Frank Molinaro? He was ranked 68th coming out of high school and was barely above .500 as a freshman in college (when Cael was still at Iowa State). He ended up a 2x finalist and one-time champ, not to mention an Olympian.

 

[pish69]

Yes, Cael has a Ferrari, but he makes it go faster than the other Ferraris.

Here's some interesting data:

Number of top 20 recruits* by school since 2009

Penn State 16
Iowa 14
Okie St 13
tOSU 12

(*I'm using the D1CW rankings because they're all collected in one place, unlike the Flo rankings. Top 20 recruits who never used a year of eligibility like Austin Ormsbee or Colin Palmer are not included in this data.)

Total number of individual years of NCAA eligibility used by those top 20 recruits

Penn State 48
Iowa 44
Okie St 37
tOSU 36

(Here's how this works: Ed Ruth was a top 20 recruit. He used all four years of eligibility at Penn State. He counts as four. Jason Nolf was a top 20 recruit. He has used three years of eligibility so far. He counts as three. Nick Suriano was a top 20 recruit. He only used one year of eligibility at Penn State before boarding the cruise liner. He counts as 1. Nate Skonieczny was a top 20 recruit but he left Iowa before he used any eligibility. He doesn't figure at all in these numbers.)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as an All American

Penn State 34 (out of 48 seasons = 77 percent)
tOSU 26 (72 percent)
Iowa 23 (52 percent)
Okie St 19 (51 percent)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as a national champion

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (25 percent)
Okie St 7 (19 percent)
Iowa 3 (7 percent)


Bring in the best kids and coach them up so they get the most out of their prodigious talents ... That's what Cael does.

Also, Matt Brown seems like a better example for you than Cassar. He was ranked 88th coming out of high school and ended up a 3x AA and national champ.

And how about Frank Molinaro? He was ranked 68th coming out of high school and was barely above .500 as a freshman in college (when Cael was still at Iowa State). He ended up a 2x finalist and one-time champ, not to mention an Olympian.

Good Stuff Cholley! That being said, if you have to explain to someone how/why Cael is great coach, you're more than likely wasting your breathe on a troll

 

[Dogwelder]

Yes, Cael has a Ferrari, but he makes it go faster than the other Ferraris.

Here's some interesting data:

Number of top 20 recruits* by school since 2009

Penn State 16
Iowa 14
Okie St 13
tOSU 12

(*I'm using the D1CW rankings because they're all collected in one place, unlike the Flo rankings. Top 20 recruits who never used a year of eligibility like Austin Ormsbee or Colin Palmer are not included in this data.)

Total number of individual years of NCAA eligibility used by those top 20 recruits

Penn State 48
Iowa 44
Okie St 37
tOSU 36

(Here's how this works: Ed Ruth was a top 20 recruit. He used all four years of eligibility at Penn State. He counts as four. Jason Nolf was a top 20 recruit. He has used three years of eligibility so far. He counts as three. Nick Suriano was a top 20 recruit. He only used one year of eligibility at Penn State before boarding the cruise liner. He counts as 1. Nate Skonieczny was a top 20 recruit but he left Iowa before he used any eligibility. He doesn't figure at all in these numbers.)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as an All American

Penn State 34 (out of 48 seasons = 77 percent)
tOSU 26 (72 percent)
Iowa 23 (52 percent)
Okie St 19 (51 percent)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as a national champion

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (25 percent)
Okie St 7 (19 percent)
Iowa 3 (7 percent)


Bring in the best kids and coach them up so they get the most out of their prodigious talents ... That's what Cael does.

Also, Matt Brown seems like a better example for you than Cassar. He was ranked 88th coming out of high school and ended up a 3x AA and national champ.

And how about Frank Molinaro? He was ranked 68th coming out of high school and was barely above .500 as a freshman in college (when Cael was still at Iowa State). He ended up a 2x finalist and one-time champ, not to mention an Olympian.

Good stuff! Would you possibly have time and enthusiasm to do the same study using top-10 as the cutoff?

 

[CholleyVandine]

Good stuff! Would you possibly have time and enthusiasm to do the same study using top-10 as the cutoff?

Sure.

# of seasons by top 10 recruits

Penn State 48
tOSU 31
Okie St 18
Iowa 12

All American finishes by top 10 recruits

PSU 34 (77 percent)
tOSU 24 (77 percent)
Iowa 7 (58 percent)
Okie State 7 (39 percent)

National titles by top 10 recruits

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (29 percent)
Okie St 2 (11 percent)
Iowa 1 (8 percent)

 

[nitlion6]

Yes, Cael has a Ferrari, but he makes it go faster than the other Ferraris.

Here's some interesting data:

Number of top 20 recruits* by school since 2009

Penn State 16
Iowa 14
Okie St 14
tOSU 12

(*I'm using the D1CW rankings because they're all collected in one place, unlike the Flo rankings. Top 20 recruits who never used a year of eligibility like Austin Ormsbee or Colin Palmer are not included in this data.)

Total number of individual years of NCAA eligibility used by those top 20 recruits

Penn State 48
Iowa 44
Okie St 39
tOSU 36

(Here's how this works: Ed Ruth was a top 20 recruit. He used all four years of eligibility at Penn State. He counts as four. Jason Nolf was a top 20 recruit. He has used three years of eligibility so far. He counts as three. Nick Suriano was a top 20 recruit. He only used one year of eligibility at Penn State before boarding the cruise liner. He counts as 1. Nate Skonieczny was a top 20 recruit but he left Iowa before he used any eligibility. He doesn't figure at all in these numbers.)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as an All American

Penn State 34 (out of 48 seasons = 77 percent)
tOSU 26 (72 percent)
Iowa 23 (52 percent)
Okie St 21 (54 percent)

Number of times one of those top 20 recruits has ended his season as a national champion

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (25 percent)
Okie St 7 (18 percent)
Iowa 3 (7 percent)


Bring in the best kids and coach them up so they get the most out of their prodigious talents ... That's what Cael does.

Also, Matt Brown seems like a better example for you than Cassar. He was ranked 88th coming out of high school and ended up a 3x AA and national champ.

And how about Frank Molinaro? He was ranked 68th coming out of high school and was barely above .500 as a freshman in college (when Cael was still at Iowa State). He ended up a 2x finalist and one-time champ, not to mention an Olympian.

You do understand that if you screw with someone's belief system by simply clubbing them over the head with straightforward facts they will become even more dazed. Then they look at you and tell you they don't believe you and they are entitled to their opinion which is just as valid as yours. So there.

Good job though.

 

[Mpchillin]

Sure.

# of seasons by top 10 recruits

Penn State 48
tOSU 31
Okie St 18
Iowa 12

All American finishes by top 10 recruits

PSU 34 (77 percent)
tOSU 24 (77 percent)
Iowa 7 (58 percent)
Okie State 7 (39 percent)

National titles by top 10 recruits

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (29 percent)
Okie St 2 (11 percent)
Iowa 1 (8 percent)

I think Iowa’s All-American number is 10 (Ramos-3, Evans-3, Kemerer-2, Marinelli-1, Lee-1.) This would be an 83 percent rate.

 

[NoVa Lion]

I conceded that recruiting is part of coaching. I also discussed purely teaching. How much credit can Einstein's college calculus teacher take?

Einstein taught himself calculus long before he went to college. Very bad analogy.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I conceded that recruiting is part of coaching. I also discussed purely teaching. How much credit can Einstein's college calculus teacher take?

Einstein's math teacher taught him to wrestle? That's absurd ;-)

 

[jtothemfp]

Sure.

# of seasons by top 10 recruits

Penn State 48
tOSU 31
Okie St 18
Iowa 12

All American finishes by top 10 recruits

PSU 34 (77 percent)
tOSU 24 (77 percent)
Iowa 7 (58 percent)
Okie State 7 (39 percent)

National titles by top 10 recruits

Penn State 16 (33 percent)
tOSU 9 (29 percent)
Okie St 2 (11 percent)
Iowa 1 (8 percent)

Good stuff, thanks, Cholley!

I kept seeing this dumbly-titled thread get more hits and was all like 'oh gawd what crap is happening in there now', so really dug popping in & finding this.

 

[jammenz]

Top five overall recruits since 2010 is a more accurate reflection of NCAA success:

Penn St.... 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,5
Ohio St-....1,1,1,4,4
Okie St.....1,2,4
Iowa....... 2,2,4

 

[BIG10MANIAC]

I think as far as HR posters are concerned, only a small handful of people are lacking in respect to Cael... It's not fair to brand the entire fanbase because of the ignorance of a few... I am an Iowa fan but I think Cael is one of the best Ambassadors and Coaches in this sport and he is a great Teacher and Mentor to his recruits.. and something else worth noting - Cael was an Iowa State Cyclone (Iowa's Arch Nemisis) so part of the disdain is due to that. There are some fans that hate Iowa State so much that no matter what, they will always hate Cael Sanderson and that is ok... It is similar to how some fans (outside of Iowa) will always hate Tom Brands and that is okay as well. They are both great for this sport and they both turn kids into NCAA All-Americans.... #RESPECT

 

[dbldoofus]

I think as far as HR posters are concerned, only a small handful of people are lacking in respect to Cael... It's not fair to brand the entire fanbase because of the ignorance of a few... I am an Iowa fan but I think Cael is one of the best Ambassadors and Coaches in this sport and he is a great Teacher and Mentor to his recruits.. and something else worth noting - Cael was an Iowa State Cyclone (Iowa's Arch Nemisis) so part of the disdain is due to that. There are some fans that hate Iowa State so much that no matter what, they will always hate Cael Sanderson and that is ok... It is similar to how some fans (outside of Iowa) will always hate Tom Brands and that is okay as well. They are both great for this sport and they both turn kids into NCAA All-Americans.... #RESPECT

The ignorant are always the loudest. And therefore get more undeserved attention.

 

[NoVa Lion]

The ignorant are always the loudest. And therefore get more undeserved attention.

That sums it up nicely.

 

[nerfstate]

The ignorant are always the loudest. And therefore get more undeserved attention.

Hey, are you calling my squeaky wheel ignorant?

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Top five overall recruits since 2010 is a more accurate reflection of NCAA success:

Penn St.... 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,5
Ohio St-....1,1,1,4,4
Okie St.....1,2,4
Iowa....... 2,2,4

That explains why you spend so much time over here.

 

[jammenz]

I've always said that Cael is the best recruiter in the history of wrestling.#respect

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Top five overall recruits since 2010 is a more accurate reflection of NCAA success:

Penn St.... 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,5
Ohio St-....1,1,1,4,4
Okie St.....1,2,4
Iowa....... 2,2,4

Jammenz - Not to question the accuracy directly but please post the source (URL - Intermat, Google, Flo, other...) for this data, I would like to keep track of this as well for other proposes.

You are a frequent contributor here, sometimes ruffling feathers and this one is worth a fact check.

Otherwise someone might accuse you being a big hat little head kind of guy - your Avitar not mine.

 

[Dogwelder]

Top five overall recruits since 2010 is a more accurate reflection of NCAA success:

Penn St.... 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,5,5
Ohio St-....1,1,1,4,4
Okie St.....1,2,4
Iowa....... 2,2,4

Where is Minnesota on that list? Oh, your legal-sized paper ran out of lines? Condolences.

 

[jammenz]

Jammenz - Not to question the accuracy directly but please post the source (URL - Intermat, Google, Flo, other...) for this data, I would like to keep track of this as well for other proposes.

You are a frequent contributor here, sometimes ruffling feathers and this one is worth a fact check.

Otherwise someone might accuse you being a big hat little head kind of guy - your Avitar not mine.

2010-2016 D1CW, 2017-2018 Flo

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Here are some more statistics!

Steveson (#12) DNQ
Short (#18) DNP
McKey (#22) DNP
Thorn (#29) DNP (0-2)
Corey Rasheed (PSU-#43) 7th

Rutgers #11(2 AAs)
SDU #12 (3 AAs)
Illinois #13 (2 AAs)
Lock Haven #16 (2 AAs)
Minnesota #17 (1 AA)

Not sure why you are still concerned with Penn State when teams like Lock Haven, South Dakota State and Rutgers seem to be the Gophers main competition these days and appear to be doing more with less.

 

[WildTurk]

Gotta love cherry picked stats. Good stuff all around guys and gals

 

[danoftw]

I think as far as HR posters are concerned, only a small handful of people are lacking in respect to Cael... It's not fair to brand the entire fanbase because of the ignorance of a few... I am an Iowa fan but I think Cael is one of the best Ambassadors and Coaches in this sport and he is a great Teacher and Mentor to his recruits.. and something else worth noting - Cael was an Iowa State Cyclone (Iowa's Arch Nemisis) so part of the disdain is due to that. There are some fans that hate Iowa State so much that no matter what, they will always hate Cael Sanderson and that is ok... It is similar to how some fans (outside of Iowa) will always hate Tom Brands and that is okay as well. They are both great for this sport and they both turn kids into NCAA All-Americans.... #RESPECT

I don't think hawk fans would waste their time hating Cael if he wasn't winning every year and making them and their style look like has beens. They wouldn't even be thinking about him as their guys pushed their way to 2-1 victories. If the program leaving them behind was just another generic grinder they would just up their grind and find better ways to get the stall call.

 

[RoarLions1]

I know for a fact, from my travels, that many fans from all team's fan bases respect Cael, same as many PSU fans respect other coaches...even though some won't admit it.

Not sure it matters though, as anyone in leadership knows. Folks like Dan Gable, Cael, and many, many others have such focus that others blabbering doesn't really matter. There's several quotes in my office, all apply, but this is among my favorites; "Great Spirits have always faced violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Einstein

 

[matter7172]

I think the HR people who hate on Cael are the same ones that dote over Brands, despite the fact he hasn't won anything except one share of a B1G title in the last 8 years.

 

[CropDuster507]

The Hawks went on a recruiting terror this last couple of months... I just hope that they're ready for the "Well, they recruited better than everyone else"-schtick. Morningstar will be the most important coach because getting a Lamborghini to perform at a high level isn't hard. Cael's been coasting for years. Welcome to the Coast Club, Iowa.

All in good fun. They've really stepped up in recruiting, though. Wow.

 

[Dogwelder]

... "Great Spirits have always faced violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Einstein

Now I know what I have to do. Find a great spirit and oppose him! Thanks, Einy!