Where we stand with Recruits 2017/2018 10/22/16

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

No picks, or pick 6's. We've seen many, many of those from PSU QBs with better measurables against Ohio State.

Agree with you there Judge, his "game management skills" are exceptional as are his leadership skills - you can particularly see how good his leadership skills are during defining "must have" drives like the one at the end of the half. He threw a near perfect ball to Saquon Barkley in the back-left corner of the endzone - Barkley got interfered with which is the only reason it wasn't a TD imho, no flag. So what does Trace do? On the very next play, he comes back and throws another perfect pass to to the extreme right sideline this time with pinpoint accuracy in the endzone to Godwin - Godwin gets interfered with as well, no flag (go figure!), but the ball was thrown so well Godwin STILL COMES DOWN WITH IT FOR A TD!!!

 

[bdgan]

Agree with you there Judge, his "game management skills" are exceptional as are his leadership skills - you can particularly see how good his leadership skills are during defining "must have" drives like the one at the end of the half. He threw a near perfect ball to Saquon Barkley in the back-left corner of the endzone - Barkley got interfered with which is the only reason it wasn't a TD imho, no flag. So what does Trace do? On the very next play, he comes back and throws another perfect pass to to the extreme right sideline this time with pinpoint accuracy in the endzone to Godwin - Godwin gets interfered with as well, no flag (go figure!), but the ball was thrown so well Godwin STILL COMES DOWN WITH IT FOR A TD!!!

McSorley doesn't have a great arm like Hack, Morelli, or even Bolden. He certainly doesn't have the athleticism of Clark or MRob. But he seems to have the "it" factor like McGloin.

 

[21Guns]

McSorley doesn't have a great arm like Hack, Morelli, or even Bolden. He certainly doesn't have the athleticism of Clark or MRob. But he seems to have the "it" factor like McGloin.

What I liked about last Saturday, was that right after he missed Gesicki in the end zone, he came back the next play and ran it into the end zone. He found a way. That's why I compare him to Burkhart, he FINDS A WAY and he JUST WINS.

 

[mn78psu83]

McSorley doesn't have a great arm like Hack, Morelli, or even Bolden. He certainly doesn't have the athleticism of Clark or MRob. But he seems to have the "it" factor like McGloin.

Bolden did throw the hardest one hoppers I've ever seen. He could rifle them all over the field. He also did a pretty decent Steve Sax imitation on occasion.

 

[bsmith51]

What I liked about last Saturday, was that right after he missed Gesicki in the end zone, he came back the next play and ran it into the end zone. He found a way. That's why I compare him to Burkhart, he FINDS A WAY and he JUST WINS.

Agreed. But I think his arm and athleticism are vastly underated. On his TD run, he out ran #35 for OSU to the pile on when it looked like that guy had a chance to take him down in the backfield. He also made a number of OSU players miss him throughout the game and did so while avoiding any real big hits. You don't do that against OSU's defense unless you are a serious athlete.

 

[mn78psu83]

Agreed. But I think his arm and athleticism are vastly underated. On his TD run, he flat out ran #35 for OSU to the pile on. He also made a number of OSU players miss him throughout the game and did so while avoiding any real big hits. You don't do that agains OSU's defense unless you are a serious athlete.

The TD run was great. He made a beautiful hesitation move, froze #35 Worley, outran him to the corner and got down low to be able to take the hit from the other defender and make it cleanly into the end zone.

 

[LukeIamYourFather]

I think just Bama happened...

Is it a committable offer? Wonder if Bama isn't just stringing him along as a plan B.

 

[jtm78]

Is it a committable offer? Wonder if Bama isn't just stringing him along as a plan B.

Bama offered who?

 

[Lion8286]

3 star DB and Texas commit.

 

[artsandletters]

Bama offered who?

DT/DE Elijah Conliffe, Hampton, VA. 6'4" 305lbs.

 

[T J]

3 star DB and Texas commit.

View embedded media

Josh Thompson
Cornerback
3 STARS
Nacogdoches
Nacogdoches, TX
RR: 5.7
Ht: 6'0"
Wt: 183 lbs
Class: 2017

========

Josh Thompson
Nacogdoches, TX (Nacogdoches)

Cornerback

• Ht 6-0
• Wt 182
• CLASS OF 17

247Sports Composite
0.8792
3 Stars
Natl Comp393
CB38
St TX54

Hard Commit
7/27/2016

• 25 OFFERS

 

[T J]

DT/DE Elijah Conliffe, Hampton, VA. 6'4" 305lbs.

Elijah Conliffe
Defensive tackle
4 STARS
Hampton
Hampton, VA
RR: 5.8
Ht: 6'4"
Wt: 305 lbs
Class: 2017

12 POSITION
211 NATIONAL
8 STATE


​

 

[hereforthebeer]

Happens at most good programs. Kids know it going in. Look at Wimbush. And sometimes someone will transfer. Still best to take a good QB in every class, IMHO.

That's the way to go. Throw numbers at quarterback. Without one, you can't win. Bring a kid in every year and may the best man win.

Also, I like Trace. No one will ever confuse him for an Andrew Luck, but that kid is a smart, smart football player. The term "winner" is terribly overused in describing quarterbacks, but in this case, it actually applies. Give me a Trace over a Bolden, Jones, Mallet, Morelli, Mustain, Browne, Bomar, or Perriloux every time.

 

[21Guns]

Bolden did throw the hardest one hoppers I've ever seen. He could rifle them all over the field. He also did a pretty decent Steve Sax imitation on occasion.

Morelli was pretty damn good at it too. That air mail job to Deon Butler in Ann Arbor was a thing of beauty: Nobody within 5 yards in any direction and Butler standing at the goal line and Morelli sailed it into the first five rows of the end zone stands at the big house.

 

[mn78psu83]

Morelli was pretty damn good at it too. That air mail job to Deon Butler in Ann Arbor was a thing of beauty: Nobody within 5 yards in any direction and Butler standing at the goal line and Morelli sailed it into the first five rows of the end zone stands at the big house.

He had a cannon. A loose one.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Obviously, some of you who have ripped me here did not listen carefully to Franklin's public comments when he selected Trace over Tommy. He was quite candid and, whether true or not, left the impression that the QBs were close. He even commented on his discussion with Tommy. That surprised me. I give Franklin credit for that candor and believe that what he said conveys the truth.

Let's forget debating which of our QBs is "better." That really wasn't where I wanted to go with this. My thoughts have been more about protecting the team and keeping good players happy......

The backup QB, particularly in an RPO system, needs to get some time. This has been my opinion going back to the Zach Mills era, when Zach got beat up while Michael Robinson, a year behind, stood on the sideline. The read-option was at the time rather new to Penn State. It was exciting and effective at first, but Zach eventually lost his arm strength. Robinson played other positions before later becoming the QB, but switched again in the NFL.

I agree with those who say we need a good QB in each class, but with a caveat. IMHO, the "backup" in this system should play regularly and, ideally, be either close in ability or have a complimentary skill. If they can't add value then next man up. Adjust the depth chart. Maybe we didn't recruit well enough for the system we run.

Unless he's a Michael Robinson, the starter will eventually get beat up or seriously injured if he plays aggressively. (He might even get a concussion while passing in the pocket.) The backup must be ready. Playing more than one QB -- on a situational basis or for a series in each game -- protects the team, unloads some risk from the starter, provides realistic evaluation feedback over time, and keeps the backup(s) engaged and motivated. "Mop up" experience isn't that useful because the offense is usually trying to protect the ball and burn clock.

Here's something to chew on: Our QBs are now in part running backs. Sanders is returning kicks while Barkley is the better runner. Sanders is a year behind and not quite as developed. Why not keep him on the bench?

Pro franchises, that tend to play a starter until they're injured, also tend not to run the RPO system for a reason. Look at what just happened to the Steelers. RPO would make that disaster even more likely. Consider what happened to Washington and their star running QB from Baylor. It's the reason I prefer a pro-style offense and a QB out of the Big Ben mold. He's big, tough to bring down, has a good sense of the rush, can scramble, and keeps pass plays alive with multiple receivers.

With an RPO system most college coaches, nevertheless, do what Franklin is doing and stick with the guy they think is better without regard for the backup. But it's risky and, in college, won't keep good, competitive kids content while on the bench.

Maybe we'll be lucky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

 

[21Guns]

Obviously, some of you who have ripped me here did not listen carefully to Franklin's public comments when he selected Trace over Tommy. He was quite candid and, whether true or not, left the impression that the QBs were close. He even commented on his discussion with Tommy. That surprised me. I give Franklin credit for that candor and believe that what he said conveys the truth.

Let's forget debating which of our QBs is "better." That really wasn't where I wanted to go with this. My thoughts have been more about protecting the team and keeping good players happy......

The backup QB, particularly in an RPO system, needs to get some time. This has been my opinion going back to the Zach Mills era, when Zach got beat up while Michael Robinson, a year behind, stood on the sideline. The read-option was at the time rather new to Penn State. It was exciting and effective at first, but Zach eventually lost his arm strength. Robinson played other positions before later becoming the QB, but switched again in the NFL.

I agree with those who say we need a good QB in each class, but with a caveat. IMHO, the "backup" in this system should play regularly and, ideally, be either close in ability or have a complimentary skill. If they can't add value then next man up. Adjust the depth chart. Maybe we didn't recruit well enough for the system we run.

Unless he's a Michael Robinson, the starter will eventually get beat up or seriously injured if he plays aggressively. (He might even get a concussion while passing in the pocket.) The backup must be ready. Playing more than one QB -- on a situational basis or for a series in each game -- protects the team, unloads some risk from the starter, provides realistic evaluation feedback over time, and keeps the backup(s) engaged and motivated. "Mop up" experience isn't that useful because the offense is usually trying to protect the ball and burn clock.

Here's something to chew on: Our QBs are now in part running backs. Sanders is returning kicks while Barkley is the better runner. Sanders is a year behind and not quite as developed. Why not keep him on the bench?

Pro franchises, that tend to play a starter until they're injured, also tend not to run the RPO system for a reason. Look at what just happened to the Steelers. RPO would make that disaster even more likely. Consider what happened to Washington and their star running QB from Baylor. It's the reason I prefer a pro-style offense and a QB out of the Big Ben mold. He's big, has a good sense of the rush, can scramble, and keeps pass plays alive with multiple receivers.

With an RPO system most college coaches, nevertheless, do what Franklin is doing and stick with the guy they think is better without regard for the backup. But it's risky and, in college, won't keep good, competitive kids content while on the bench.

Maybe we'll be lucky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Zach Mills did not lose his arm strength because of the system he ran. He lost his arm strength because he suffered an injury at Wisconsin, and it never healed. Before that injury, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the nation.

 

[TheGLOV]

Morelli was pretty damn good at it too. That air mail job to Deon Butler in Ann Arbor was a thing of beauty: Nobody within 5 yards in any direction and Butler standing at the goal line and Morelli sailed it into the first five rows of the end zone stands at the big house.

Don't remind me.

He had an anxiety attack every time he saw an open WR.

 

[TheGLOV]

Zach Mills did not lose his arm strength because of the system he ran. He lost his arm strength because he suffered an injury at Wisconsin, and it never healed. Before that injury, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the nation.

I wouldn't go that far sir.

Good ole Generous Mills was also always good for throwing a pick-6 the other way.

 

[TheGLOV]

Obviously, some of you who have ripped me here did not listen carefully to Franklin's public comments when he selected Trace over Tommy. He was quite candid and, whether true or not, left the impression that the QBs were close. He even commented on his discussion with Tommy. That surprised me. I give Franklin credit for that candor and believe that what he said conveys the truth.

Let's forget debating which of our QBs is "better." That really wasn't where I wanted to go with this. My thoughts have been more about protecting the team and keeping good players happy......

The backup QB, particularly in an RPO system, needs to get some time. This has been my opinion going back to the Zach Mills era, when Zach got beat up while Michael Robinson, a year behind, stood on the sideline. The read-option was at the time rather new to Penn State. It was exciting and effective at first, but Zach eventually lost his arm strength. Robinson played other positions before later becoming the QB, but switched again in the NFL.

I agree with those who say we need a good QB in each class, but with a caveat. IMHO, the "backup" in this system should play regularly and, ideally, be either close in ability or have a complimentary skill. If they can't add value then next man up. Adjust the depth chart. Maybe we didn't recruit well enough for the system we run.

Unless he's a Michael Robinson, the starter will eventually get beat up or seriously injured if he plays aggressively. (He might even get a concussion while passing in the pocket.) The backup must be ready. Playing more than one QB -- on a situational basis or for a series in each game -- protects the team, unloads some risk from the starter, provides realistic evaluation feedback over time, and keeps the backup(s) engaged and motivated. "Mop up" experience isn't that useful because the offense is usually trying to protect the ball and burn clock.

Here's something to chew on: Our QBs are now in part running backs. Sanders is returning kicks while Barkley is the better runner. Sanders is a year behind and not quite as developed. Why not keep him on the bench?

Pro franchises, that tend to play a starter until they're injured, also tend not to run the RPO system for a reason. Look at what just happened to the Steelers. RPO would make that disaster even more likely. Consider what happened to Washington and their star running QB from Baylor. It's the reason I prefer a pro-style offense and a QB out of the Big Ben mold. He's big, tough to bring down, has a good sense of the rush, can scramble, and keeps pass plays alive with multiple receivers.

With an RPO system most college coaches, nevertheless, do what Franklin is doing and stick with the guy they think is better without regard for the backup. But it's risky and, in college, won't keep good, competitive kids content while on the bench.

Maybe we'll be lucky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Bingo sir!! You nailed it.

 

[21Guns]

I wouldn't go that far sir.

Good ole Generous Mills was also always good for throwing a pick-6 the other way.

True, but his ball was actually CATCHABLE. The other kid back then, threw literal rocks at receivers that would eat them up and go flying in any direction.

 

[bsmith51]

Obviously, some of you who have ripped me here did not listen carefully to Franklin's public comments when he selected Trace over Tommy. He was quite candid and, whether true or not, left the impression that the QBs were close. He even commented on his discussion with Tommy. That surprised me. I give Franklin credit for that candor and believe that what he said conveys the truth.

Let's forget debating which of our QBs is "better." That really wasn't where I wanted to go with this. My thoughts have been more about protecting the team and keeping good players happy......

The backup QB, particularly in an RPO system, needs to get some time. This has been my opinion going back to the Zach Mills era, when Zach got beat up while Michael Robinson, a year behind, stood on the sideline. The read-option was at the time rather new to Penn State. It was exciting and effective at first, but Zach eventually lost his arm strength. Robinson played other positions before later becoming the QB, but switched again in the NFL.

I agree with those who say we need a good QB in each class, but with a caveat. IMHO, the "backup" in this system should play regularly and, ideally, be either close in ability or have a complimentary skill. If they can't add value then next man up. Adjust the depth chart. Maybe we didn't recruit well enough for the system we run.

Unless he's a Michael Robinson, the starter will eventually get beat up or seriously injured if he plays aggressively. (He might even get a concussion while passing in the pocket.) The backup must be ready. Playing more than one QB -- on a situational basis or for a series in each game -- protects the team, unloads some risk from the starter, provides realistic evaluation feedback over time, and keeps the backup(s) engaged and motivated. "Mop up" experience isn't that useful because the offense is usually trying to protect the ball and burn clock.

Here's something to chew on: Our QBs are now in part running backs. Sanders is returning kicks while Barkley is the better runner. Sanders is a year behind and not quite as developed. Why not keep him on the bench?

Pro franchises, that tend to play a starter until they're injured, also tend not to run the RPO system for a reason. Look at what just happened to the Steelers. RPO would make that disaster even more likely. Consider what happened to Washington and their star running QB from Baylor. It's the reason I prefer a pro-style offense and a QB out of the Big Ben mold. He's big, tough to bring down, has a good sense of the rush, can scramble, and keeps pass plays alive with multiple receivers.

With an RPO system most college coaches, nevertheless, do what Franklin is doing and stick with the guy they think is better without regard for the backup. But it's risky and, in college, won't keep good, competitive kids content while on the bench.

Maybe we'll be lucky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Franklin also said that if they have to go into the first game without naming a starter, so be it. He didn't want to make a decision until it was obvious to everyone. TM was publicly named as starter 10 or 12 days before the season started. Again, we have no idea what the real situation was. The staff is lockdown with info. Lots of teams run RPO systems. I don't know of any who run a 2 QB system by working in the backup each game for a couple of series.

 

[bsmith51]

Zach Mills did not lose his arm strength because of the system he ran. He lost his arm strength because he suffered an injury at Wisconsin, and it never healed. Before that injury, he was one of the best quarterbacks in the nation.

Mills was a hell of a QB. Too bad he injured his shoulder.

 

[21Guns]

tos just put in a cb for the good guys on young Danny the receiver. 4 star talent, and a youngster in Texas posted something in our favor also.

The beginning of some big MO comin? Me thinks so...

 

[T J]

Both QBs seem to be multi skilled, with good passing and running capabilities.

One factor we have seen regularly with McSurley is his very good judgement.

He does a good job with split second decisions that turned into first downs via his runs and passes.
He has saved yardage when he has been able to throw the ball away without incurring penalties.
He seems to be improving with his decisions to feed the ball to Barkley or to exploit an opening himself.
​

When you have QBs who may have fairly equal skill sets, the next factor may be, how consistently do they use those skills to keep gaining ground, while not giving up ground? Not a knock on Stevens. Don't know enough about him yet. But, we have seen that McSurley has the makings of a good field general.

We still have work to do with this offense. Perhaps the best days for this offense are still ahead, as more of our young players gain experience. Hoping they continue to get better, to optimize our skill position talent with more of JoMo's defense-exploiting strategies.

 

[bjf1991]

What I liked about last Saturday, was that right after he missed Gesicki in the end zone, he came back the next play and ran it into the end zone. He found a way. That's why I compare him to Burkhart, he FINDS A WAY and he JUST WINS.

TMc9 says: "Thanks for nothing.......Douchebag"

 

[21Guns]

TMc9 says: "Thanks for nothing.......Douchebag"

Same word they use at BoT meetings when they make sure who to keep out, except they put the word "Barry" next to it.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Franklin also said that if they have to go into the first game without naming a starter, so be it. He didn't want to make a decision until it was obvious to everyone. TM was publicly named as starter 10 or 12 days before the season started. Again, we have no idea what the real situation was. The staff is lockdown with info. Lots of teams run RPO systems. I don't know of any who run a 2 QB system by working in the backup each game for a couple of series.

Yep, coaches go with one QB, and then claim the team is young or inexperienced when the starters move on and the team loses early in the year. Anyone think we win all of the last 3 with the McSorley of Game 1? Anyone think we lose to Pitt with the McSorley of Game 7? I'll concede that others have improved and were obviously factors, but several of those games were close enough to hinge on McSorley's decision-making. He improved with game experience and film feedback. So would the backups.

 

[artsandletters]

Same word they use at BoT meetings when they make sure who to keep out, except they put the word "Barry" next to it.

Except that Barry had the balls to go to BoT meetings and speak out in an attempt to right wrongs while you complained at FOS that the scandal thread was too long and why isn't everybody paying more attention to football and can't somebody please just make this nightmare go away because it makes me unhappy and I just want to cry. Jackass.

 

[harjeff]

Yep, coaches go with one QB, and then claim the team is young or inexperienced when the starters move on and the team loses early in the year. Anyone think we win all of the last 3 with the McSorley of Game 1? Anyone think we lose to Pitt with the McSorley of Game 7? I'll concede that others have improved and were obviously factors, but several of those games were close enough to hinge on McSorley's decision-making. He improved with game experience and film feedback. So would the backups.

IMO, the Pitt game was lost on D due to injuries and not being able to stop them. Trace would have won that game as well if our D could have stopped them a few more times in the first half.

 

[danvillenit]

QB is different than any other position. Top programs recruit a top QB every year and the best man plays. Not uncommon for QBs to transfer for that reason.

 

[bdgan]

QB is different than any other position. Top programs recruit a top QB every year and the best man plays. Not uncommon for QBs to transfer for that reason.

True. The problem is that our QBs are all young. Ideally we would have one QB from each of the last 4 classes. The younger players might be patient because their opportunities are coming. That should get fixed over time.

 

[LuvDaLions]

So far, Pitt's only bright spot IMO is their win over us.
On any given day, any team can beat another; justify that they were the better team that day.
It would be asinine to think otherwise.
After all, we certainly proved we were better than OSU last Saturday.

I think we will land Wade.

If Pitt does stumble, would anybody really notice??

If Pitt stumbles in Heinz Filed, and nobody is there to see it, did they really stumble?

 

[cjrugger]

Impressive(?) how we have 4 different terrible threads going on at the same time here

 

[GregInPitt]

That's the way to go. Throw numbers at quarterback. Without one, you can't win. Bring a kid in every year and may the best man win.

Also, I like Trace. No one will ever confuse him for an Andrew Luck, but that kid is a smart, smart football player. The term "winner" is terribly overused in describing quarterbacks, but in this case, it actually applies. Give me a Trace over a Bolden, Jones, Mallet, Morelli, Mustain, Browne, Bomar, or Perriloux every time.

Is it really "throwing numbers" at the position? An 85 scholarship roster is a 3 to 4 deep at each position. With QB the most important position on the team it is natural that coaches choose to usually carry at least 4-5 scholarship QB's. Another obvious factor is that there are usually no other positions that translate to a player moving to QB as for instance a large Safety could move to LB in the event of significant LB injuries (sound familiar?) - I doubt that Farmer (or any other non QB on the PSU roster) could move to QB as easily as he moved to LB, not that it was that easy.

Your description of bringing in one every year and generating competition is what is necessary. Most teams bring in more that one many years as QB's that don't win the job seem to transfer at a higher rate that at other positions given that QB's tend to play all the snaps once they win the job, as opposed to many other positions where the backups still get lots of playing time to prepare them to eventually start. But other QB's realize that as a backup, even third string, they are only an injury or two away from getting their chance.......

 

[PSUrob182]

can we please discuss recruiting in this thread again

 

[GregInPitt]

Obviously, some of you who have ripped me here did not listen carefully to Franklin's public comments when he selected Trace over Tommy. He was quite candid and, whether true or not, left the impression that the QBs were close. He even commented on his discussion with Tommy. That surprised me. I give Franklin credit for that candor and believe that what he said conveys the truth.

Let's forget debating which of our QBs is "better." That really wasn't where I wanted to go with this. My thoughts have been more about protecting the team and keeping good players happy......

The backup QB, particularly in an RPO system, needs to get some time. This has been my opinion going back to the Zach Mills era, when Zach got beat up while Michael Robinson, a year behind, stood on the sideline. The read-option was at the time rather new to Penn State. It was exciting and effective at first, but Zach eventually lost his arm strength. Robinson played other positions before later becoming the QB, but switched again in the NFL.

I agree with those who say we need a good QB in each class, but with a caveat. IMHO, the "backup" in this system should play regularly and, ideally, be either close in ability or have a complimentary skill. If they can't add value then next man up. Adjust the depth chart. Maybe we didn't recruit well enough for the system we run.

Unless he's a Michael Robinson, the starter will eventually get beat up or seriously injured if he plays aggressively. (He might even get a concussion while passing in the pocket.) The backup must be ready. Playing more than one QB -- on a situational basis or for a series in each game -- protects the team, unloads some risk from the starter, provides realistic evaluation feedback over time, and keeps the backup(s) engaged and motivated. "Mop up" experience isn't that useful because the offense is usually trying to protect the ball and burn clock.

Here's something to chew on: Our QBs are now in part running backs. Sanders is returning kicks while Barkley is the better runner. Sanders is a year behind and not quite as developed. Why not keep him on the bench?

Pro franchises, that tend to play a starter until they're injured, also tend not to run the RPO system for a reason. Look at what just happened to the Steelers. RPO would make that disaster even more likely. Consider what happened to Washington and their star running QB from Baylor. It's the reason I prefer a pro-style offense and a QB out of the Big Ben mold. He's big, tough to bring down, has a good sense of the rush, can scramble, and keeps pass plays alive with multiple receivers.

With an RPO system most college coaches, nevertheless, do what Franklin is doing and stick with the guy they think is better without regard for the backup. But it's risky and, in college, won't keep good, competitive kids content while on the bench.

Maybe we'll be lucky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Correct, there really can be no debate here which is "better', as CJF and his staff are the only ones that know. And given that they want to win more than us it's obvious that Trace is "better". That's why it was pointed out that your comments that you tried to pass off as fact are really fiction.

Getting the backup some regular experience (real experience with the game in question) implies a 2 QB system. Most coaches are not 2 QB system coaches, and CJF is not a 2 AB system coach. So you are out of luck with that plan. If the team can blow out one of the less talented teams on our schedule maybe Stevens gets some snaps. But you discount the ongoing experience that Stevens is getting in practice. CJF knows that Stevens is one snap (injury) away from being the starting QB and the staff is continually developing him for a starting role should that occur.

I believe CJF is on record as saying his goal is to have 5 scholarship QB's in order to have the depth that his running QB system requires, and to have the competition required to field top college QB's on an ongoing basis.

And as others have pointed out, this thread is about recruiting, the 2017 and 2018 prospects that CJF has offered and how likely they are to commit to and eventually enroll at PSU. So your original exposition on McSorely and Stevens did not belong in this thread to begin with. But you had so much B.S. in it that I could not resist pointing out the fairy land comments that you made. I wish the moderator would clean up this thread and get the content focused on what BMW started to begin with............

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

can we please discuss recruiting in this thread again

I know, it's comical - PSU just beat the #2 team in the nation as a 20-point underdog and you still have idiots and flamers claiming that the Staff is not playing the correct players because they're the judge of such things......despite not seeing the players in practice all spring and in summer camp like the Staff has, go figure?!?! LMFAO at these "I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night" football & coaching experts....

 

[Obliviax]

Obviously, some of you who have ripped me here did not listen carefully to Franklin's public comments when he selected Trace over Tommy. He was quite candid and, whether true or not, left the impression that the QBs were close. He even commented on his discussion with Tommy. That surprised me. I give Franklin credit for that candor and believe that what he said conveys the truth.

Let's forget debating which of our QBs is "better." That really wasn't where I wanted to go with this. My thoughts have been more about protecting the team and keeping good players happy......

The backup QB, particularly in an RPO system, needs to get some time. This has been my opinion going back to the Zach Mills era, when Zach got beat up while Michael Robinson, a year behind, stood on the sideline. The read-option was at the time rather new to Penn State. It was exciting and effective at first, but Zach eventually lost his arm strength. Robinson played other positions before later becoming the QB, but switched again in the NFL.

I agree with those who say we need a good QB in each class, but with a caveat. IMHO, the "backup" in this system should play regularly and, ideally, be either close in ability or have a complimentary skill. If they can't add value then next man up. Adjust the depth chart. Maybe we didn't recruit well enough for the system we run.

Unless he's a Michael Robinson, the starter will eventually get beat up or seriously injured if he plays aggressively. (He might even get a concussion while passing in the pocket.) The backup must be ready. Playing more than one QB -- on a situational basis or for a series in each game -- protects the team, unloads some risk from the starter, provides realistic evaluation feedback over time, and keeps the backup(s) engaged and motivated. "Mop up" experience isn't that useful because the offense is usually trying to protect the ball and burn clock.

Here's something to chew on: Our QBs are now in part running backs. Sanders is returning kicks while Barkley is the better runner. Sanders is a year behind and not quite as developed. Why not keep him on the bench?

Pro franchises, that tend to play a starter until they're injured, also tend not to run the RPO system for a reason. Look at what just happened to the Steelers. RPO would make that disaster even more likely. Consider what happened to Washington and their star running QB from Baylor. It's the reason I prefer a pro-style offense and a QB out of the Big Ben mold. He's big, tough to bring down, has a good sense of the rush, can scramble, and keeps pass plays alive with multiple receivers.

With an RPO system most college coaches, nevertheless, do what Franklin is doing and stick with the guy they think is better without regard for the backup. But it's risky and, in college, won't keep good, competitive kids content while on the bench.

Maybe we'll be lucky. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Good points. I think the staff really protected TM early in the year and that, perhaps, cost us against Pitt. Up until the second half of the Minny game, TM rarely ran the ball. That includes QB draws, zone-read and scrambles. The second half of Minny was a huge difference from previous games and has continued through tOSU.

And, TM really hasn't taken too many shots running the ball. He looks great (knocking on wood here). I am betting TM doesn't run the ball much against Purdue, unless we get into trouble in the second half.

 

[LemonEars]

Update: Pulling double duty today and combining 2017 and 2018 into one update. Without further ado here is your Ohio State visitor list of note:

Ohio State visitors: Official: McFarland Jr., Harris, Oladipo, Bolds. Non Official: Wade, Davis, Castro-Fields, Campbell, Dudek, Ruiz, Leach.
2018: Slade, Tutt, Fontaine, Young, Raines, Anderson-Butts, Scruggs, Hooker, Clement, Gregory, Morgan, Smith (WR), Gant, Hawkins, Smith (DE), Manns, Scott, Ruckert, Reigelsperger, AsaMoah, Hoelscher

Now that is just crazy. Lamont Wade making another on campus appearance after two at Tennessee is good news. Tariq Castro-Fields is a top target for Alabama so great to get him in as well, especially after Pitts decommitment. Danny Davis at one time got a few crystal balls to Penn State then visited Kentucky a few times and they are the perceived leaders. Would be great get at wider receiver. Kyree Campbell was the 41st DT in 2016 but didn’t qualify for entry at UNC and is a very interesting prospect. Jaylen Harris is taking an official which is great and the longer his recruitment goes on the better it is for PSU as it means OSU is holding out for someone else at WR. Illini commit Oladipo is on an official and the staff view him as a potential do everything D-lineman. I am not convinced he is and think we have enough of those types on the roster already. Makes me wonder if they see him as a fallback or if he is a take right now. Corey Bolds was reported as taking an official to this game by Scout but I have yet to see it repeated elsewhere (someone in the know can confirm). It would be nice to get an official from him as he fits more of a traditional DT. Anthony McFarland Jr is definitely favorited to Miami right now, but we were out of his top 5 and still got one of his 5 official visits. This is great news.

In a perfect transition to the 2018 list; McFarland is from Dematha and bringing 2018 prospects Gregory, Fontaine (who would be such a huge get at a position of need), and Morgan (who we are the absolute favorite for). Slade on campus again and he becoming a regular. Christian Tutt is a top CB prospect from GA. His recruitment will be national but great to get him on campus. PA prospects Young, Raines, and Anderson-Butts are familiar names. Fredrick Scruggs getting on campus is big news, would have been nice if his teammate and ND commit, Matthew Bauer would be joining him. Marcus Hooker is Malik’s younger brother and destined to follow him to OSU. Iverson Clement is a great ATH prospect who could play RB/WR or I see him ending up at CB for Penn State. Great speed and lots of options with him. Jeremy Ruckert the TE from NY will also be on hand, he is one of many TEs that PSU is after for 2018 in a quest to take 2 or 3 after whiffing in 2017. The rest of the names are all from the state of OH: L’Christian Smith WR (3rd prospect in OH for ‘18), Dallas Gant OLB (4th), Tyreke Smith DE (6th), Blaine Scott G (14th), Aeneas Hawkins (15th), Alex Reigelsperger DE (17th), Jornell Manns WR (18th), Cameron Hoelscher ILB (22nd), Brian AsaMoah OLB (UR). That is an incredible list from the state of Ohio where up until this year it has been tough goings for Penn State for quite a while. I find it hard to believe that OSU will let anyone ranked in the top 5 of OH go easily, so while it is nice to get them here, expectations should be tempered. Also, and I hate to say it but from a contrarian position you could point out that there home state Buckeyes are possibly a historically good young team playing in one of the greatest venues of all college football in a White House at Beaver Stadium, it makes you wonder who they’re coming to see. I hope that is not the case, but I would be remiss to not at least acknowledge the possibility.

On to the rankings. Just want to touch on a few names in the 2017 rankings. While McFarland is favorited to Miami getting him in an official has him moved up. Same for Danny Davis getting back on campus. Anthony Hines probably isn’t coming to Penn State but I think it is a lot closer than his crystal ball makes it seem. On the flip side I don’t think Proctor is likely to pick Penn State. The reason is because he just doesn’t seem to have the makeup of the kid who normally picks Penn State in that he wants to make his decision with a public hat pick on signing day; we NEVER win that. Also, he’s in contact recently with Ole Miss. I think there is still time to work on Jordan Anthony especially with family connections to PSU, but now his is favorited to Michigan. Wade-Perry continues to hold out for that Stanford offer. I don’t think Hutch is coming to Penn State. I know some will get angry at that prediction but I just don’t see it. If we strike out with the other LBs, look for Zane Zandier (great name) to get an offer and jump at it. I really like how he plays and am actually hoping he does eventually get an offer. My flip watch is just a list of players we will stay after until signing day. I think Spence, Hainsey, and Kaindoh are the best chances to change their mind. Kaindoh though will probably be to FSU. I would have loved to get one or two of the ND or UMD commits on campus for this game.

Please let me know if I missed something or your general comments!

Commit Watch:


Very Good Chance:
4/5* CB Wade, 3* CB Johnson

In The Battle:
4* RB McFarland Jr., 4* WR Harris, 4* LB Hines, 4* RB/LB Anthony, 4* OLB Proctor, 4* WR Davis, 3* DT Wade-Perry, 3* WR Hamler, 3* ATH Castro-Fields, 3* OLB Zandier, 3* DT Campbell

Work Left To Do:
4* ATH Bowden, 4* WR Ruggs, 4* ATH Bell, 4* DL Jeter, 3* DL Conliffe, 3* DT Martin, 3* DT Bolds, 3* DT Hutch, 3* OT Becton, 3* S Nelson, 3* DL Butler, JUCO OT Traore

Have To Get Really Lucky:
5* OT Wilson, 4* CB Thomas, 4* ATH Hunter, 4* OLB Singleton, 4* C Ruiz

Flip Watch:
Cam Spence (Maryland), Robert Hainsey (Notre Dame), Josh Kaindoh (Maryland), Mark Webb (Georgia), D’Andre Swift (Georgia), David Adams (Notre Dame), Kurt Hinnish (Notre Dame), Axel Nyembwe (Duke), Tommy Christ (Virginia)

2018:
Commit Watch (if it ended today):
4* S Humphries, 4* WR Anderson-Butts, 3* OLB Katshir, 3* TE Pitts, 3* DE Morgan

Very Good Chance:
5* RB Slade, 4* S Young, 4* S Raines, 4* DE Hardy, 4* OT Scruggs, 4* WR Provillon, 4* ATH Clement, 3/4* QB Fields, 3* QB Patterson, LB McElroy, 3* CB Paul

In The Battle:
4/5* TE Kuntz, 4* DT Fontaine, 4* DT Mustipher, 4* TE Ruckert, 4* CB Tutt, 4* LB Gant, 4* DE Smith, 4* G Gregory, 4* LB Shelton, 3/4* WR Simmons, 3* G Scott, 3* LB Bastida, 3* DT Hawkins, 3* WR Manns, 3* ILB Hoelscher

Work Left To Do:
4* DT Friday, 4* WR Dotson, 4* DT Sandidge, 4* WR Smith, 4* OT Duncan, 4* ATH Gervin, 4* ATH Hooker, 3* DE Reigelsperger

Have To Get Really Lucky:
5* RB Gill, 4* S Lytton, 3* OT Reed , 3* DT Stills

The most important recruit for us to get is Wade. If we get him then we will have gotten the best recruit out of the WPIAL for two years in a row. We got Sanders last year. This will signal to future recruits that Penn State gets the best and the pitters get the leftovers. That is the position we need to be in for the future.