True mesh point of the RPO with Clifford. It was hard to focus with the loose cannons firing .
Which cfb coaches do you rate as better than CJF?
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Considering BOT also paid 8 million for the Freeh report and refuses to acknowledge the waste of money that was....using a BOT expenditure as an example of knowledge might be misguided. Personally the only coaches in the BIG I would want if CJF left would be Fitzgerald or Schiano.....but I never played for a D1 MNC so what do I know.
You are such a homer it is pathetic. Day took a OSU passing offense that was miserable under Urban and turned into a high power pro like offense. Not surprising, the NFL was his roots. People on this site told us recruiting was going to drop off but it didn't it got better. Were competitive for 3 years in a row against OSU followed by 2 non competitive games. What chanced??? Day.
Name a coach currently coaching in the B10 who lost 5 straight to start the season, If there is one, Franklin is better than that coach.
Ranking him nationally is tough but in the Big Ten, I would put him in a tie for 6th with Kirk Ferentz behind Ryan Day, Tom Allen, PJ Fleck, Paul Cryst and Pat Fitzgerald.
Allen and Fleck better be incredible game day coaches cause they aren’t going to recruit anywhere near the talent Franklin has the past five years. They each had one good, not great, year
Name a coach besides Day who has won a Big Ten title?
Well in the last five years only three coaches in the nation have won more games, but by all means put him 6th in the Big Ten (eye roll).
By the way, Dantonio's two most recent Big Ten titles came against elite Ohio State teams.
In 2013, they beat a 12-0 Ohio State in the Big Ten championship game. Ended Urb's 24-game winning streak to open his Ohio State tenure.
In 2015, they upset #2 and undefeated Ohio State in Columbus with a backup QB (Connor Cook was hurt). They kicked a FG as time expired to dash OSU's hopes at a repeat national championship. That OSU team was arguably their most talented ever. MSU went on to beat Iowa in the Big Ten title game (IIRC), and then went to the CFP.
So, Dantonio has some seriously legit wins and titles under his belt. Problem is, he had serious problems on his staff in the later years -- particularly on offense. Warner and Bollman were a mess as co-OCs, and actually losing Narduzzi as DC hurt. And at MSU, you're automatically running behind Michigan in your own state recruiting-wise, and also playing behind the likes of Ohio State and Notre Dame in your own backyard. Tough to build a consistent contender at MSU.
No doubt the man was a total jackass. But he was a fantastic tactician that managed to win plenty of games by out-maneuvering opposing coaches during the game. Frankly, I'm glad he's gone. MSU isn't going to out-talent us. But the 2018 game was a wonderful example of Dantonio outcoaching us. I don't worry about Mel Tucker quite as much.
No question....losing Dantonio is a crusher for MSU...he got so much out of solid to good talent. And he beat OSU at their best, owned Michigan and won a couple B1G titles and numerous big bowls. That program is a mess as he also had some bad apples on that team, but from a football standpoint, he was excellent in big games. MSU's wins over us in 2017 and 2018 were crushers, and we had the much better teams.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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There are likely 3 or 4 dozen other coaches who could have keep that train on the track
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Way off the mark. Consider, USC, Florida State, Texas, and Alabama (pre-Saban) They have fallen off the cliff after losing extremely good coaches. Just because you take over a program that has done very well in the past, doesn't mean that it will continue. Not easy at all to keep a very good program on track.
There are likely 3 or 4 dozen other coaches who could have keep that train on the track
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Way off the mark. Consider, USC, Florida State, Texas, and Alabama (pre-Saban) They have fallen off the cliff after losing extremely good coaches. Just because you take over a program that has done very well in the past, doesn't mean that it will continue. Not easy at all to keep a very good program on track.
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To me you have to look at program success. That makes Saban, Sweeny, and Day the top three guys. Recruiting is a huge part of it. Getting the right guys goes a long way to making you a great coach. Until you really start competing for the "can't miss" guys on a regular basis PSU will be a team where somethings need to line up just like most teams (Auburn, Florida, ND, USC, Oklahoma, A&M, etc.).
Way off the mark. Consider, USC, Florida State, Texas, and Alabama (pre-Saban) They have fallen off the cliff after losing extremely good coaches. Just because you take over a program that has done very well in the past, doesn't mean that it will continue. Not easy at all to keep a very good program on track.
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Oklahoma has managed. It’s about keeping the system in place. When a new coach comes in and tries to make a program his own, that’s when you have problems....see Larry Coker. I agree there aren’t three or four dozen coaches that could keep the train rolling, but there are quite a few more than just Ryan Day.
Saban and Swinney for sure, but Day’s not there yet. He hasn’t even accomplished what Larry Coker did out of the gate. He may end up in that group, but he has to prove it over time.
Sure we can talk about it if you're willing to pay off the last 2 1/2 years of here $1M+/yr employment contract. Who do you have in mind?
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Joe literally had bushels of wins against top teams - even on the road. I attended three of them in person against teams ranked #1. Larger body of work, of course. But Franklin has exactly none.
Get back to me in 40 years on Franklin and we’ll talk. And it was a different time and different game back then. What do you think Joe’s career record would have been if PA’s high school football sucked for all those years like it does now?
CBS had a series of anonymous FBS football head coaches polls 2 years ago....26 coaches participated on an anonymous basis
CJF and Willie Taggert were tied at the top of the list for most overrated coaches - Taggert if you remember was recently bought out of his FSU contract
I absolutely was in disagreement when I read that poll 2 years ago.....what is that old saying????
“no one knows you as well as your peers”
....imagine if they took the poll now?
CJF and Willie Taggert were tied at the top of the list for most overrated coaches - Taggert if you remember was recently bought out of his FSU contract
I absolutely was in disagreement when I read that poll 2 years ago.....what is that old saying????
“no one knows you as well as your peers”
....imagine if they took the poll now?
That's was to leave and go to the NFL, don't remember ever hearing of him considering another college job that I know of. I could be wrong obviously and if anyone remembers differently would love to hear about it.
Is there really a difference? A different job is a different job. And all the rumors about these jobs Franklin supposedly was talking about we’re always just that, rumors.
No doubt, but posters on here don’t cut Franklin any slack (like not making the CFP in 2016)..,all I read are that the system is what it is and he hasn’t made it.....so the same could be said about Joe.
I'm just asking, you do have some Franklin love, I'll give you that. He's a solid coach, I'm fine if he stays or if he goes. He kind of brought the criticism on himself with the "Elite" talk, they were never elite, but damn good with Trace and Barkley, but a lot of that credit needs to go to Jo Mo as well. I definitely give him credit for righting the ship down the stretch this season and going out with a better taste in their mouths, would have loved to see a Bowl gm, but opting out seems like the in thing currently.
Day also inherited a team loaded with talent and built to win championships. We have no clue how he would do if he actually had to build a program.
He's somewhere between the top five and the top ten. Let's be serious - after Saban and Dabo, it's a big mess for the next ten or fifteen coaches. I don't think you can point to anyone outside of those two as being definitely better than Franklin...but I'm also not sure if you could point to Franklin as being definitively better than a bunch of other guys, either.
I think Franklin's very much in the mix with Smart, Riley, Kelly (Brian), Day, Fisher, and Mullen. But it's much more of a "these guys are all in the same band of coaches," and I'm not sure if they're really separated enough from each other to rank them. But I do think that all of those guys are at a very small level above the next tier of Harbaugh, Chryst, Cristobal, Shaw, Ferentz, Whittingham, and Fitzgerald. Then there are a bunch of guys who I have no idea about, and need a little more time to really put them in a tier - Mack Brown, Orgeron, Patterson, and Fleck.
I think Franklin's very much in the mix with Smart, Riley, Kelly (Brian), Day, Fisher, and Mullen. But it's much more of a "these guys are all in the same band of coaches," and I'm not sure if they're really separated enough from each other to rank them. But I do think that all of those guys are at a very small level above the next tier of Harbaugh, Chryst, Cristobal, Shaw, Ferentz, Whittingham, and Fitzgerald. Then there are a bunch of guys who I have no idea about, and need a little more time to really put them in a tier - Mack Brown, Orgeron, Patterson, and Fleck.
I agree with this so much. Day is a fine coach but how would Penn State look with a couple of back to back classes with 13 of the top 100. Thats a bunch of Micah Parson type talents all over the field. Winning feeds recruiting but so do things like facilities, coaching, location, perhaps less than ideal ethics, etc. Franklin has played OSU close with less talent. The only way to rank with the Sabans, Urbs, and Dabos is to win it all and that means breaking through with less talent....a really tough but not impossible task. I'm sure there are other coaches every bit as talented as those big three but not having the same advantages. All I know is that Franklin has been great for PSU, he's winning and his players love him and play hard for him. I really like how he leads the organization, how he protects his players and creates a family atmosphere. College football to me is slowly dying with free agency, three years of recruiting a player for getting about a year and a half of actual playing time before transferring or jumping to the NFL. Franklin is the guy to navigate PSU through this if the sport survives. It will continue to take monumental effort to break into the elite group and I don't see anybody out there better equipped to lead the team there.
I still don’t understand why a coach would get criticized for saying he wants to move his program into elite status....shouldn’t that be every coach’s goal?
Well, in the last five years only three coaches have won more games, so he’s definitely among that “other” group of coaches and at the high end of that group.
The criticism doesn't even make sense. You can't say "Franklin was wrong for saying that Penn State was a great program, but not elite like Ohio State," and also say, "the teams Franklin was talking about were just great, but they weren't elite."
And, considering that Franklin has matched the success he had with Moorhead as his OC two years after Moorhead left, and Moorhead hasn't come anywhere close to matching the kinds of seasons that he enjoyed under Franklin at Penn State, I'm not sure if it's even accurate to say "much of the credit goes to Moorhead." It was a perfect marriage at a perfect time for both parties, for certain, but only one of them has since gone on to reach similar heights without the other.
FTR, franklin never said psu was elite. He said they were a great team was trying to become elite.
Regarding Ryan Day, I was hoping Ohio State would take a step back like Florida did after Myer, FSU after Bowden, Fisher, USC after Carroll, etc..you get the idea but as of right now it doesn’t look like they’ve missed a beat..especially in recruiting. We’ll see what happens..but it seems like PSU has plateaued right now....a big offseason coming up.
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anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Recruiting is the root problem of the massive disparity in college football. In the 2021 recruiting cycle, 247 sports has 29 composite 5 star recruits. Only six schools got two or more:
Alabama - 6
Ohio State - 5
Georgia - 4
LSU - 2
Clemson - 2
Miami - 2
And with the exception of Miami, these are repeat CFP teams. Until there is some kind of effort to 'balance' things (limit amenities in football facilities to only football related items - no nap rooms, slides, etc...?) this will likely continue for years to come. Ohio State is on autopilot but even they're not anywhere near what Alabama does each and every year.
Cash burn rate is also correlated to winning. The Link is a few years old , but the storyline remains the same .
Which CFB teams have the most success per dollar?
It takes money to make football teams win games. Which college programs are the most efficient at spending and winning?
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The only guy who I would definitely put in that tier right below Saban/Dabo is Kirby Smart.
I have no doubt the bag man is working overtime at UGA, which is in part responsible for him hauling in these top-3 recruiting classes. But his teams are elite defensively, and if he can update his offense to the 21st century, they're going to be perennial national title contenders.
4 straight NY6 bowl games, and a national runner-up in 2017. And he's recruiting at a level only eclipsed by Saban and -- as of late -- Ryan Day. They need to improve their QB play, but Daniels is looking good......they're going to win a title within 5 years, IMO.
So to me, the tiers look something like this:
Saban/Dabo
Kirby Smart
Brian Kelly/Day/Riley --> not determined yet if Day/Riley are going to slide up into the elite group, or slide down into the great-but-not-elite group
Jimbo, Mullen, Chryst, Franklin, etc.
