Whiniest Big 10 Coach

[Callthestall]

How many are doing this, that there needs to be a rule?

I watched girls basketball the last 2 years.
LSU had a girl that was at her 4th college in 4 years . If you don't create rules and structure it's going to become very prevalent.
Garcia was at 3 schools and I don't think he was a grad student. I might be wrong.
It's a domino effect. I'm not just saying wrestling , I'm saying all sports. A coach recruits a high school kid. The kid makes a decision partially on perceived opportunity moving forward. Coach then doesn't want to commit to younger kid and fills with a transfer. I just don't like the roller coaster that a student athletes gets put on.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I watched girls basketball the last 2 years.
LSU had a girl that was at her 4th college in 4 years . If you don't create rules and structure it's going to become very prevalent.
Garcia was at 3 schools and I don't think he was a grad student. I might be wrong.
It's a domino effect. I'm not just saying wrestling , I'm saying all sports. A coach recruits a high school kid. The kid makes a decision partially on perceived opportunity moving forward. Coach then doesn't want to commit to younger kid and fills with a transfer. I just don't like the roller coaster that a student athletes gets put on.

I would venture the term student isn't an influencer on the athlete decisions... unfortunately for college aged kids

 

[Callthestall]

I would venture the term student isn't an influencer on the athlete decisions... unfortunately for college aged kids

Depends on the kid and expectations he has.
Most kids going to Ivy look at the big picture.

 

[NittanyLion84]

What is Tom Ryan Talking About?

 

[nerfstate]

What is Tom Ryan Talking Out of?

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FIFY

 

[a_mshaffer]

What is Tom Ryan Talking About?

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hope Pyles stands up to him where appropriate. Maybe replay some of those whiney experiences. Or ask if he had a plan to go along with the robes...

 

[dicemen99]

I watched girls basketball the last 2 years.
LSU had a girl that was at her 4th college in 4 years . If you don't create rules and structure it's going to become very prevalent.
Garcia was at 3 schools and I don't think he was a grad student. I might be wrong.
It's a domino effect. I'm not just saying wrestling , I'm saying all sports. A coach recruits a high school kid. The kid makes a decision partially on perceived opportunity moving forward. Coach then doesn't want to commit to younger kid and fills with a transfer. I just don't like the roller coaster that a student athletes gets put on.

I don't understand who this is an issue for. There will be kids that jump from college to college just like some people jump from job to job. There will be others - the vast majority - that understand leaving a good situation is not something to be done lightly and stay put

The ones that transfer are either job jumpers which is rarely a good strategy and rarely indicative of a person you want at the core of your program/company, or they are leaving a bad situation. In either scenario I think the impact on the scorned company/program is overblown as is the probable impact at the new company/program

You go to war with the people who want to be in the foxhole with you, you want people in your boat that are rowing in the same direction, etc, etc.

 

[El-Jefe]

I watched girls basketball the last 2 years.
LSU had a girl that was at her 4th college in 4 years . If you don't create rules and structure it's going to become very prevalent.
Garcia was at 3 schools and I don't think he was a grad student. I might be wrong.
It's a domino effect. I'm not just saying wrestling , I'm saying all sports. A coach recruits a high school kid. The kid makes a decision partially on perceived opportunity moving forward. Coach then doesn't want to commit to younger kid and fills with a transfer. I just don't like the roller coaster that a student athletes gets put on.

Just wait until they get jobs and get passed over for promotions while their bosses instead hire more experienced people.

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't understand who this is an issue for. There will be kids that jump from college to college just like some people jump from job to job. There will be others - the vast majority - that understand leaving a good situation is not something to be done lightly and stay put

The other constraint is academic: schools will only transfer so many credits -- both number of credits and course content.

Therefore, student athletes who want a degree are similarly constrained.

Those who don't care about getting a degree, or who can't hack it academically, might transfer repeatedly until they find temporary shelter at the Harvard of the Swamp.

 

[jack66]

hope Pyles stands up to him where appropriate. Maybe replay some of those whiney experiences. Or ask if he had a plan to go along with the robes...

Pyles will get nowhere. Ryan will feed him a bunch of nonsequiturs and lead the interview in circles.

 

[doubleboots]

I watched girls basketball the last 2 years.

 

[Callthestall]

The other constraint is academic: schools will only transfer so many credits -- both number of credits and course content.

Therefore, student athletes who want a degree are similarly constrained.

Those who don't care about getting a degree, or who can't hack it academically, might transfer repeatedly until they find temporary shelter at the Harvard of the Swamp.

Agreed with premise of what is said. But doesn't that create an unfair athletic situation for the schools that are willing to accommodate the limited academic student. Last year LSU women's basketball won a national championship by catering to that athlete. Was that fair to the programs that treated academics with some value.?
I get the whole scene of college sports. Some schools and programs will allow transfers easier than others. The easy transfer rules have created a mess for the high school kid that is picking his school. The scholarship education is not even considered to be a commodity for many athletes.
The comment about going job to job is valid but not always true. Some businesses make you sign non compete agreements. Some jobs agree to pay off student debt AFTER your contract commitment. Some athletes are shopping their services to highest bidder. This forum would be totally upset if some wrestling coach filled a majority of the roster with one year stud rentals and won the Championship.
Somewhere and somehow some structure should be created to avoid an LSU situation.

 

[El-Jefe]

Agreed with premise of what is said. But doesn't that create an unfair athletic situation for the schools that are willing to accommodate the limited academic student. Last year LSU women's basketball won a national championship by catering to that athlete. Was that fair to the programs that treated academics with some value.?
I get the whole scene of college sports. Some schools and programs will allow transfers easier than others. The easy transfer rules have created a mess for the high school kid that is picking his school. The scholarship education is not even considered to be a commodity for many athletes.
The comment about going job to job is valid but not always true. Some businesses make you sign non compete agreements. Some jobs agree to pay off student debt AFTER your contract commitment. Some athletes are shopping their services to highest bidder. This forum would be totally upset if some wrestling coach filled a majority of the roster with one year stud rentals and won the Championship.
Somewhere and somehow some structure should be created to avoid an LSU situation.

Less of an advantage than Kentucky basketball has had with all of those one-and-done freshmen getting drafted by the NBA. Meanwhile, Calipari just bailed out one step ahead of the posse. It didn't last.

Maybe we should let all of the Covid roster effects pass, and the NIL overshoot to reach steady state, before we start changing long-term policy.

BTW, I'm not opposed to a rule that says undergrads can only transfer once (with a well defined waiver process for limited situations like family emergencies). But where's the data saying this is a real problem? Anecdotes are not data.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Anyone hear the Pyles interview with Ryan? I thought he did an impressive job.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Anyone hear the Pyles interview with Ryan? I thought he did an impressive job.

working.... can you give a quick recap?

 

[McScoreley]

Pyles will get nowhere. Ryan will feed him a bunch of nonsequiturs and lead the interview in circles.

Guarantee you Tom Ryan will say something that implies we offered Mesenbrink NIL money and he doesn't do that.

 

[El-Jefe]

Pyles will get nowhere. Ryan will feed him a bunch of nonsequiturs and lead the interview in circles.

And then give Pyles a blackshirt.

 

[a_mshaffer]

And then give Pyles a blackshirt.

Guarantee you Tom Ryan will say something that implies we offered Mesenbrink NIL money and he doesn't do that.

agree, he has had too much time to prepare... His on the spot or reaction quotes are what 'makes' him

 

[donboy6499]

I don't understand Tom's point (just getting to the interview).

Is his point that they would take portal guys, just haven't? That they aren't pursuing? They are, and Tom admits as much.

Pyles kind of has a point here in that Tom wants to malign teams who get transfers, but also he is attempting to get them himself.

One thing that stands out in this interview is that Tom keeps going back to that his student-athletes are always kept in the know one who he and his staff are pursuing in the portal. I don't know that is best practice to be honest. What if his team says, "no". Or feel pressured to approve?

Unfortunately, Tom comes across as a guy coaching in 1994 and not 2024.

 

[El-Jefe]

One thing that stands out in this interview is that Tom keeps going back to that his student-athletes are always kept in the know one who he and his staff are pursuing in the portal. I don't know that is best practice to be honest. What if his team says, "no". Or feel pressured to approve?

I think that's great.

He's establishing a culture of trust. The guys all know he's bringing in talent -- but he's not doing it behind their backs.

Also, the wrestlers all know each other. They may be able to tell Ryan if a guy is bad news -- and he'd be dumb to not listen. Ryan still has final say, but the team has input.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Guarantee you Tom Ryan will say something that implies we offered Mesenbrink NIL money and he doesn't do that.

Guarantee you Tom Ryan will say something that implies we offered Mesenbrink NIL money and he doesn't have that that.

 

[donboy6499]

I think that's great.

He's establishing a culture of trust. The guys all know he's bringing in talent -- but he's not doing it behind their backs.

Also, the wrestlers all know each other. They may be able to tell Ryan if a guy is bad news -- and he'd be dumb to not listen. Ryan still has final say, but the team has input.

Respect your opinion, and I like to hope you’re right and I’m wrong. And maybe Cael operates this way, who knows.

My experience with team input on something so serious as altering your team is that everyone’s goals are never aligned. Some guys have buddies whose PT is impacted, some guys dislike either the incumbent or the portal guy. Others (and this is most common) give the vibe of “you’re the coach and I don’t want any of it on my plate so do whatever”.

 

[johnstownsteel]

John Smith retires.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Depends on the kid and expectations he has.
Most kids going to Ivy look at the big picture.

Since most of the people in charge are Ivy educated adults who "look at the big picture" are the ones that have given us a $35T acknowledged debt and have us on the verge of World War III, I think the presumption of their perspicacity is overstated.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

John Smith retires.

Wrong one, perhaps?

Cal Poly to part ways with head men's basketball coach John Smith

Cal Poly announced Friday afternoon will part ways with head men's basketball coach John Smith.

keyt.com

 

[johnstownsteel]

Wrong one, perhaps?

Cal Poly to part ways with head men's basketball coach John Smith

Cal Poly announced Friday afternoon will part ways with head men's basketball coach John Smith.

keyt.com

 

[donboy6499]

John Smith retires.

Wow. Ragusin comments broke him.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

View embedded media

I really thought you were kidding.

Maybe the key words in this article are "not part of the SEASON".

OSU Wrestling: John Smith Says Retirement Plans ‘Not Part of the Season’

'You don't really think what you want to do as a coach. You got enough to do to clean things up and put a respectable team out on the mat and be competitive like we're used to.'

pistolsfiringblog.com

 

[Brian LB-U]

Anyone hear the Pyles interview with Ryan? I thought he did an impressive job.

Agree. And Ryan sounded like a buffoon.

 

[PAHURDLER]

I think the best part about Tom Ryan’s interview today on Flo wrestling radio live was that he literally said “ I was on the beach when I read your tweets.”

If that’s not the most Tom Ryan thing, I don’t know what is.

 

[IndyLion1]

I still don't understand what his problem is with transfers in the NIL era. Ohio State has not got a transfer during this era. Ohio State is trying hard to get transfers. Ohio State coaches do not teach or to potentisl transfers. It is legal for clubs, boosters or wrestlers to talk to potential recruits.

He's tries to get transfer, he admitted that includes Mesenbrink.
He's not sure but Penn State has more NIL money... he's guessing.
Mesenbrink said he picked Penn State over programs offering more money. Ryan thinks OSU finished 2nd for Mitchell.

What is Tom upset with?

 

[PAHURDLER]

I agree Tom Ryan didn't sound like an educated person in that interview. I'm still trying to figure out what his problem is with transfers in the NIL era. Ohio State has not got a transfer during this era. Penn State has unlimited funds. A lot of recruits are going to teams because those programs can help them achieve their goals for less money. Basically he talked in big circle.

He's tried to get transfer, he admitted that include Mesenbrink.
He's not sure but Penn State has more NIL money... he's guessing.
Mesenbrink said he picked Penn State over programs offering more money.

What is Tom made at?

Honestly, reading between the lines, it seems like he’s mostly mad that on paper they have not had any NIL transfers, and he believes their hands are clean. However, I think there’s a deeper frustration that he hasn’t been able to get any NIL transfers that he has gone after.

Basically “we are a more virtuous program because we haven’t had NIL transfer success. Lord knows we wish we did, but since we haven’t we are better than the teams that have.”

Sort of like a high school kid who is desperately eager to lose his virginity, but has no takers, so he goes around proclaiming how virtuous he is to still be a virgin.

 

[donboy6499]

Honestly, reading between the lines, it seems like he’s mostly mad that on paper they have not had any NIL transfers, and he believes their hands are clean. However, I think there’s a deeper frustration that he hasn’t been able to get any NIL transfers that he has gone after.

Basically “we are a more virtuous program because we haven’t had NIL transfer success. Lord knows we wish we did, but since we haven’t we are better than the teams that have.”

Sort of like a high school kid who is desperately eager to lose his virginity, but has no takers, so he goes around proclaiming how virtuous he is to still be a virgin.

I think if he continues to let his team decide whether they get transfers or not, his team will continue not getting transfers.

 

[RealMicah]

Thought Christian did a solid interview there.

 

[creamery freak]

Wow. Ragusin comments broke him.

If ESPN is smart they will sign John up to do the NCAA'S, because he articulates wrestling very well on the air. I wasn't too impressed with some of the guys this year.

2nd thing in this thread, can we change Tan Tom's name to Cryin Ryan?

 

[johnstownsteel]

Thought Christian did a solid interview there.

I was impressed Christiann didn't "soft ball" him with questions and didn't back down from his side of the argument. Soon as Tom said "we've gone after transfers during NIL age", he pretty much proved Christians point for him.

 

[donboy6499]

I still don't understand what his problem is with transfers in the NIL era. Ohio State has not got a transfer during this era. Ohio State is trying hard to get transfers. Ohio State coaches do not teach or to potentisl transfers. It is legal for clubs, boosters or wrestlers to talk to potential recruits.

He's tries to get transfer, he admitted that includes Mesenbrink.
He's not sure but Penn State has more NIL money... he's guessing.
Mesenbrink said he picked Penn State over programs offering more money. Ryan thinks OSU finished 2nd for Mitchell.

What is Tom upset with?

Tom didn’t realize that when he concedes both these things he can’t look great:

172.5 points should have an asterisk since it’s easier than ever to get that with the portal and NIL.

His team was over 100 points behind that easier clip.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Agree. And Ryan sounded like a buffoon.

It's on the youtoobs now.

Ryan sounds like an quibbling HR rep.

And just to be sure, I see "HR reps" as slightly better than "Satan incarnate" and about the same as "communist" and "nazi".

 

[El-Jefe]

Respect your opinion, and I like to hope you’re right and I’m wrong. And maybe Cael operates this way, who knows.

My experience with team input on something so serious as altering your team is that everyone’s goals are never aligned. Some guys have buddies whose PT is impacted, some guys dislike either the incumbent or the portal guy. Others (and this is most common) give the vibe of “you’re the coach and I don’t want any of it on my plate so do whatever”.

Oh, no doubt there's a risk of this going sideways if the team culture is bad.

But that doesn't appear to be an issue there. They all share a common lack of judgment in choosing THE Ohio State University, but otherwise appear to be a group of fine upstanding young men.

Agreed that indifference is probably the most likely response.

OTOH look what happened at Iowa -- Brands portaled in Fredo, with AJ obviously not far behind, and former Blair teammate Chittum left the very next day. That is exactly why you build a two-way culture of trust.

 

[jack66]

I love how he starts - "the Iowas, Michigans, Penn States; I'm not getting into the weeds about what they are doing."

What a bozo.